GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[SwampD]

You didn't even see the game. The situation is not what you're describing. You're like a broken record being played at the wrong dance.

 

The first chance they had to "show things have changed" happened during the Montreal game, if you were paying attention. And I think they did an okay job supporting Miller during that game.

 

I agree, overall, with the idea that the Sabres need more balls than they have had. However, crying and whining over every little incident, regardless of the circumstances, is going to get old really fast is already really old.

fixed

[shrader]

On his goal, did you notice how he did it? He stepped out from behind the defender in front of him just in time to make the shot. Really amazing timing. The D man WAS covering him, but since there was a play, Vanek timed his move just right.

 

The D-man took a step or two towards MacArthur in the corner and that was all it took. Like I said earlier in the thread, he left Vanek alone for 1 second and that was all it took.

 

Let it go. The hit on Myers wasn't overly aggressive. It was just awkward. That's why he went down and that's why nobody responded at the time. You can relax, everything that needed to be responded to was responded to last night,... Oh yeah, and they won.

 

Keep in mind that Deluca is talking about a play that he already admitted to not seeing.

 

I wouldn't.

I would blame Kennedy for skating with his head down. You want to drop your head, turn with the puck in your own zone and skate like it's the Swedish elite league? This is the NHL, you should get blasted.

It was a beautiful, clean, open ice hit...I don't need to see hockey players wearing skirts like NFL QB's.

 

Prucha's head was up the whole way. He saw it coming but didn't stand a chance. If you watch the video again, you'll see that Prucha actually poked the puck up ice because he knew he was about to get destroyed and didn't want to turn it over. What screwed him over here was that he was lower to the ice thanks to his quick turn up ice.

[nfreeman]

The first chance they had to "show things have changed" happened during the Montreal game, if you were paying attention. And I think they did an okay job supporting Miller during that game.

 

I agree, overall, with the idea that the Sabres need more balls than they have had. However, crying and whining over every little incident, regardless of the circumstances, is going to get old really fast.

I may be seeing what I want to see, but I really think there is a substantial difference in the team's physicality, not backing down and standing up for each other so far this year. The only spots I haven't seen it are the top 2 lines, and I'd guess that will change when Stafford moves up -- he seemed pretty determined last night.

[LabattBlue]

Was that Kaleta? I remember seeing that block and thinking "great play" but not being able to see who did it.

Positive. While on the same topic, I should not forget Stafford, who even though he went down too early and was too far from the point man, also showed the effort to sacrifice his body in an attempt to block a shot.

[deluca67]

Just by what you've written in this post tells me that no matter what anyone says, your view will not be changed and you just don't get it. You've been beating this "retribution" drum forever and it's absolute crap. Smart hockey players take a number, and when they get a chance, make the player pay DURING play. It's WAY more beneficial to the team than a bunch of BS grab ass after the whistle. You said yourself that you didn't watch. That hit, in my eyes, did not require a meaningless scrum after it.

Except for one time when Drury was hit this never happens. They have had several opportunities to go after Gomez and nothing has happened or ever will.

[shrader]

1.5 points per game, tied for the top spot in the east. :D

[deluca67]

The D-man took a step or two towards MacArthur in the corner and that was all it took. Like I said earlier in the thread, he left Vanek alone for 1 second and that was all it took.

 

 

 

Keep in mind that Deluca is talking about a play that he already admitted to not seeing.

 

 

 

Prucha's head was up the whole way. He saw it coming but didn't stand a chance. If you watch the video again, you'll see that Prucha actually poked the puck up ice because he knew he was about to get destroyed and didn't want to turn it over. What screwed him over here was that he was lower to the ice thanks to his quick turn up ice.

It's a play I have seen a lot over recent years with little or no response from the Sabres. It's doesn't matter if it is a cheap shot or is it is a clean hit. A rookie takes a shot while making a play. It would go a long way to show this kid that his teammates have his back.

[spndnchz]

The only thing that I didn't like about the Kaleta hit was the video guy making it the hit of the night on the jumbotron. You should've seen the Coyote bench.

[deluca67]

I may be seeing what I want to see, but I really think there is a substantial difference in the team's physicality, not backing down and standing up for each other so far this year. The only spots I haven't seen it are the top 2 lines, and I'd guess that will change when Stafford moves up -- he seemed pretty determined last night.

That is where the toughness a Grier, Rivet and Montador brings really needs to have a impact. It's not enough for the usual suspects to toss their bodies around or answer the bell (when the score allows I guess). The "top six" forwards on this team need to develop a edge. They need to play chippy and without fear knowing that the big guys down the lineup have their back if things get out of hand. Against Montreal, which is not a tough team, I was surprised how aggressive Gomez and Gionta were instigating skirmishes. That's exactly what the Sabres need from their top players.

[nfreeman]

That is where the toughness a Grier, Rivet and Montador brings really needs to have a impact. It's not enough for the usual suspects to toss their bodies around or answer the bell (when the score allows I guess). The "top six" forwards on this team need to develop a edge. They need to play chippy and without fear knowing that the big guys down the lineup have their back if things get out of hand. Against Montreal, which is not a tough team, I was surprised how aggressive Gomez and Gionta were instigating skirmishes. That's exactly what the Sabres need from their top players.

Interesting. I'm not sure it's in TC's or Pommer's nature (or MacArthur's) to play that way -- this is why I've been hoping for 2 years for a forward with a mean streak and some skill (Doan, Shanahan, etc.) to play in the top 6. I don't think any more new guys are coming in this year. I could see Kennedy playing that way though. I do think we will see that edge, or some of it, out of Roy-Vanek-Stafford.

 

Did you just (sorta) compliment Grier, Rivet and Montador?

[darksabre]

In the Montreal GDT from Saturday, I mentioned that VanstheMans may have seen a different game at the rink than I saw on TV (you see more at the rink, he was there and didn't think the team looked good, and on TV, I thought the Sabres looked great). Had the opposite experience tonight; a friend watching on TV kept texting me with messages about how sharp the Sabres looked, how the forechecking was excellent, etc., while I was seeing it live and thought the team looked horrible. I can totally see how Vans & I saw "different" games on Saturday.

 

They were skating hard, they took chances, they did all the things that we want the team to do, but something wasn't right. And it was--I hate to use this word--an intangible something that was missing. The effort was there, but it just wasn't working out. There was no coordination among team members; at some points, it was like watching five skaters, each of whom was playing hard, but playing a different game from the other four.

 

Kudos to Pominville's defensive play. He stuck out especially on the Coyote's first power play (before it became a 5-on-3) and probably prevented a goal by sticking to his man in front. All in all, he was great in the Sabres' end. Speaking of which, the D was great in general, in the Sabres' end. Montador fits on this team well (his hustle was terrific, and he didn't back down from anything), Rivet cared for the puck as if it were a newborn, Butler and Sekera had strong games, and even Hank, yes, Hank, was strong (except for a penalty call that was a complete BS call). Myers was over-used on the PP, but I guess Ruff has to look at him in as many situations as possible before ten games are up. He was a force out there defensively again, though, and I liked him on the PK. Defense was pinching again in the offensive zone, and doing it well. Good amount of pressure; the team kept the puck in the Phoenix zone really well.

 

Not so good: The D was great in the Sabres' end, and did a good job at the points, but was horrible in the neutral zone. The O took too many shots at LaBarbera, and not enough at the open goal behind him. Roy still needs to find the skate sharpener, so he can stop falling all over the place all the time. Kennedy missed two passes that were right to his tape on the same shift in the second, and the latter of those nearly led to a Phoenix goal. Vanek made some unnecessary passes before finding his game in the late third, and of course, some of those passes didn't exactly work out. Hecht dressed for the game. As someone said in the Montreal thread, please stop the one-man-point PP scheme. Not working. There's no need for two defensemen on the point on a power play in the first period in a 0-0 game, either. Too many times where Sabres ran into each other or nearly did so.

 

Glad for the win, but I want to see some better hockey.

 

This is exactly my line of thought. This team is doing some of the stuff it takes to win, but something isn't quite right with it all. WJAG hits on it too in a later post here, that they don't look quite organized enough out there, which I think is true. His "five skaters playing five different games" line makes sense. There is a succinct lack of chemistry out there at times that makes everything seem not quite right.

[LabattBlue]

Interesting. I'm not sure it's in TC's or Pommer's nature (or MacArthur's) to play that way -- this is why I've been hoping for 2 years for a forward with a mean streak and some skill (Doan, Shanahan, etc.) to play in the top 6. I don't think any more new guys are coming in this year. I could see Kennedy playing that way though. I do think we will see that edge, or some of it, out of Roy-Vanek-Stafford.

 

Did you just (sorta) compliment Grier, Rivet and Montador?

If I had to rank the top 6 or 7 scoring forwards in terms of likeliness of getting in the middle of a scrum(a little facewash, some pushing and shoving, but not dropping the gloves, etc...)...

 

Stafford

MacArthur

Roy

Connolly

Vanek

Pominville

[nfreeman]

This is exactly my line of thought. This team is doing some of the stuff it takes to win, but something isn't quite right with it all. WJAG hits on it too in a later post here, that they don't look quite organized enough out there, which I think is true. His "five skaters playing five different games" line makes sense. There is a succinct lack of chemistry out there at times that makes everything seem not quite right.

It seems to me that the breakouts from the defensive zone and transition from defense to offense are not nearly as crisp as they used to be. No more Soupy flying up the ice with the puck, no more Teppo, who was an excellent passer out of the zone, a dropoff in Tallinder's confidence that has affected his passing and puck-carrying, Rivet and Montador aren't great offensive defensemen, and Butler, Sekera and Myers are young players. I think the best avenue for improvement here is growth in confidence and experience for Butler, Sekera and Myers -- any of those 3 could blossom into a very strong defense-to-offense transition guy (and if we get lucky, 2 or 3 of them will).

[grinreaper]

Good posting tonight people. After reading thru I felt the same highs and lows throughout the game. I was disappointed with Vanek's ice time only like 15 16 mins. This guy needs to play more to get his game in line. Stafford is gripping the stick so hard he has splinters. Funny to see him in someones face to night with antagonistic smile after a scrum. Myers needs to stay. Hank appears to be mentoring him which has me nervous. By the way Mike Grier watching me spank it does too!

If they'd lost i'd be pissed. They are playing pretty good D limiting shots. The east could end up being wide open. Montreal is already down Markov and Boston doesn't look invincible.

 

 

Are you sure you're on the right forum?

[Stoner]

Except for one time when Drury was hit this never happens. They have had several opportunities to go after Gomez and nothing has happened or ever will.

 

On a related note, the Coyotes coach ripped his team after the game for taking so many undisciplined penalties and wasting a good goalie performance. The penalties, almost certainly, stemming from Kaleta's hit.

[deluca67]

Interesting. I'm not sure it's in TC's or Pommer's nature (or MacArthur's) to play that way -- this is why I've been hoping for 2 years for a forward with a mean streak and some skill (Doan, Shanahan, etc.) to play in the top 6. I don't think any more new guys are coming in this year. I could see Kennedy playing that way though. I do think we will see that edge, or some of it, out of Roy-Vanek-Stafford.

 

Did you just (sorta) compliment Grier, Rivet and Montador?

They represent the majority of the toughness this team has. That is why I was really impressed with Myers reaction against the Habs when they got too close to Miller. The more players that want to get involved the less of a problem it is.

 

The top forwards have to learn that getting punched in the face doesn't hurt forever (unless you get hit by Kermit Washington. If Stafford can bring that consistently to the top line then he is worth every penny of his contract. Getting physical play our of the top two lines can be as important as getting scoring from the third and forth lines. It's like getting run production in baseball from 7-8-9 hitters. The really good teams get it consistently.

[SwampD]

On a related note, the Coyotes coach ripped his team after the game for taking so many undisciplined penalties and wasting a good goalie performance. The penalties, almost certainly, stemming from Kaleta's hit.

What a concept. Playing smart hockey instead wasting your energy on "retribution".

 

And for the record, smart hockey and physical hockey are not mutually exlusive.

[Two or less]

Game thoughts...

 

- Solid and very rare(over the last 2 years) 60 minute effort.

 

- Kaleta left his feet. It appeared to be a cheap shot no matter what RJ and Harry said.

 

- The Phoenix coach should have told his team to focus on hockey and not on Kaleta. They were out of control.

 

- Miller with a solid effort.

 

- Stafford impressed me for the 2nd game in a row and deserved the promotion to the 1st line.

 

- Butler with a nice game except for the brain cramp on the PP that led to a 3 on 1.

 

- Anyone else wondering why Sekera saw no time on the PP??

 

- Vanek saved himself from getting skewered for the 2nd game in a row by scoring the GWG. Other than that...nothing.

 

- MacArthur with a nice goal and the primary assist on Vanek's goal.

 

- I thought Tallinder was actually halfway decent, especially in the first period.

 

- The PP needs some work. The Sabres despite having numerous scoring chances are not going to win many games scoring 2 goals.

 

Like usual, some of the best game thoughts come from you.

 

I think Sekera is in the same shoes as MacArthur, aka, needs a big season to prove he's worth staying here. I thought he's struggled moving the puck and players like Myers and Montador have done a much better job moving the puck and getting shots off then Sekera, which is disappointing because i thought Sekera may be our PP QB for a long time to come.

 

The PP needs A LOT of work i think. I thought they were horrible and needed a long time to even get set up on multiple power plays. The offense needs to improve too. I like the win, the effort and so on, but, against Montreal it was "wow, what a game by Price" and last night was "wow, what a game by LaBarbera". Their backup goalie. It seems like same old song as last year where we just can't beat their goalies. Although, i do think this game last night a year ago would have been a loss. I think their getting tons of chances, but they just can't finish.

 

I also love the way the defense is playing. Myers really needs to stay up. I really like Butler's game against. I was worried about a sophomore slump like Weber but it doesn't appear so. Rivet and Montador are also playing great. I'm looking forward to even Toni Lydman coming into the lineup.

 

Second game in a row i thought Miller was absolutely fantastic. So, when does Lalime start? Saturday night in Nashville or on Versus vs. the Wings?

[inkman]

After reading the thread and watching the two games, it seems as if this team still needs to develop on ice chemistry. Guys are still figuring out who is going to be where. Not real surprising as the lines have only been in tact exactly 2 days before the start of the season. Hopefully a much crisper game in Nashville will prove this to be true.

[nfreeman]

Like usual, some of the best game thoughts come from you.

 

I think Sekera is in the same shoes as MacArthur, aka, needs a big season to prove he's worth staying here. I thought he's struggled moving the puck and players like Myers and Montador have done a much better job moving the puck and getting shots off then Sekera, which is disappointing because i thought Sekera may be our PP QB for a long time to come.

 

The PP needs A LOT of work i think. I thought they were horrible and needed a long time to even get set up on multiple power plays. The offense needs to improve too. I like the win, the effort and so on, but, against Montreal it was "wow, what a game by Price" and last night was "wow, what a game by LaBarbera". Their backup goalie. It seems like same old song as last year where we just can't beat their goalies. Although, i do think this game last night a year ago would have been a loss. I think their getting tons of chances, but they just can't finish.

 

I also love the way the defense is playing. Myers really needs to stay up. I really like Butler's game against. I was worried about a sophomore slump like Weber but it doesn't appear so. Rivet and Montador are also playing great. I'm looking forward to even Toni Lydman coming into the lineup.

 

Second game in a row i thought Miller was absolutely fantastic. So, when does Lalime start? Saturday night in Nashville or on Versus vs. the Wings?

I agree with most of this, but I think we'll need to be patient with Sekera. He's 23 and just starting his 2nd full NHL season. Soupy didn't establish himself as a legit regular until he was 26. Sekera has great wheels. His decision-making hasn't caught up to his speed yet. With experience he may get there. He also might not, but he's better than Soupy was at this age.

[Stoner]

I agree with most of this, but I think we'll need to be patient with Sekera. He's 23 and just starting his 2nd full NHL season. Soupy didn't establish himself as a legit regular until he was 26. Sekera has great wheels. His decision-making hasn't caught up to his speed yet. With experience he may get there. He also might not, but he's better than Soupy was at this age.

 

Is Campbell the best example? Yikes.

[Two or less]

I agree with most of this, but I think we'll need to be patient with Sekera. He's 23 and just starting his 2nd full NHL season. Soupy didn't establish himself as a legit regular until he was 26. Sekera has great wheels. His decision-making hasn't caught up to his speed yet. With experience he may get there. He also might not, but he's better than Soupy was at this age.

 

Very true. I hope they remain patient with him because i do think we have a real talent on our hands.

 

The difference with Campbell is, he was starting to become on the "hot seat" and then Lindy paired Campbell with Teppo and the rest is history. I even remember hearing Campbell in a interview with one of the Canadian stations when he was with San Jose (i wanna say in the playoffs) and they were talking about his game and how well-rounded it has gotten, and Campbell gave tons of credit to Teppo because it was like having a coach skate with him and every time he made a mistake, Teppo had his back. Not sure if Sekera will have that kind of benefit.

[...]

 

I like the win, the effort and so on, but, against Montreal it was "wow, what a game by Price" and last night was "wow, what a game by LaBarbera". Their backup goalie. It seems like same old song as last year where we just can't beat their goalies. Although, i do think this game last night a year ago would have been a loss. I think their getting tons of chances, but they just can't finish.

 

 

 

While I think the Sabres offense is still having some trouble finishing the play, I can't completely ignore the idea that the TWO opposing goalies SO FAR could have played a great game. It is the beginning of the season after all, and all of the guys are fresh.

 

So, AT THIS POINT, which is to say very very early in the season, I'd rather consider it a mix of both - lack of finishing against good goal-tending. Personally, I won't start worrying about how they're finishing (or not finishing) plays until after another four or five games - I need a larger sample size to say it's one thing or the other.

[Taro T]

Is Campbell the best example? Yikes.

Would you prefer Tallinder?

[Stoner]

After reading the thread and watching the two games, it seems as if this team still needs to develop on ice chemistry. Guys are still figuring out who is going to be where. Not real surprising as the lines have only been in tact exactly 2 days before the start of the season. Hopefully a much crisper game in Nashville will prove this to be true.

 

Lines? Intact? Didn't Lindy pull the plug in the third period?