PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 This year I made the plunge and bought Sabres seasons. Even though I live over 500 miles from HSBC, I figured I would be able to sell my unused seats through StubHub fairly easily. Here we are just a few days from the start of the season and I'm noticing a few things. One, even though I've sold a few games, tickets are not moving like I thought. Two, because of sluggish sales, prices are really low. You'd think the Red Wings would be a premium draw but you can get tickets on StubHub dirt cheap and they still aren't selling. Three, even games against Montreal and Toronto are not moving. Yes, they are still the top-priced ticket but are well below box office. Also, much to my surprise, tickets for the other Canadian teams, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, are priced comparable with Atlanta and Florida. So what gives? I'm starting to wonder if many of the season tickets sold by the Sabres are people more interested in flipping them than watching games. It's kind of like condos in Florida. They looked hot because everybody was buying them, but not to live in. Perhaps a good winning streak will jump the market? PTR
sweeper Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Winning always makes things cost more. I remember very distinctly how empty the arena was the first third of the season in 05 - 06. Hell, even the season opener after over a year of no hockey only had like 15000 people at it...then all of a sudden they started winning like crazy, and the place was packed for the next two years. Still got your ticket to Chicago? When myself and my buddies did our ticket draft, that was the only game I wanted to go to that I was unable to get a ticket for.
LabattBlue Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 I have thought for a couple of years now that the Sabres have become too greedy in terms of the tiered/box office pricing. When the team had their two runs to the conference finals, people were willing to pay anything for a seat. Now that they have cooled off, the ridiculous box office pricing doesn't look as appealing. The Sabres only sold out 25 or so games last year(even though many of the non-sellouts were by less than 500 seats) and I expect that downward trend to continue this year unless the Sabres find a way to get the juices flowing again amongst the fan base. They have even crossed the price line of the Canadien fans. Two of the smallest crowds last year(I believe around 16,500 - 17,000) were games against Montreal and Toronto(I'd venture to guess that they were super titanium level games), so I guess they have wised up to Quinny's plan that they will pay to see their team at any cost.
inkman Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 This year I made the plunge and bought Sabres seasons. Even though I live over 500 miles from HSBC, I figured I would be able to sell my unused seats through StubHub fairly easily. For a few years now, I have thought of purchasing season tickets with the thought of attending a few games but selling the majority on craigslist or stubhub. Glad I never made the plunge. I've been trying to make the argument since last year that interest/attendance was waning but numbers were always thrust in my face about how attendance was soaring. Guess mediocrity is finally catching up to them. Maybe losing money will make them think twice about the product on the ice.
tom webster Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 This year I made the plunge and bought Sabres seasons. Even though I live over 500 miles from HSBC, I figured I would be able to sell my unused seats through StubHub fairly easily. Here we are just a few days from the start of the season and I'm noticing a few things. One, even though I've sold a few games, tickets are not moving like I thought. Two, because of sluggish sales, prices are really low. You'd think the Red Wings would be a premium draw but you can get tickets on StubHub dirt cheap and they still aren't selling. Three, even games against Montreal and Toronto are not moving. Yes, they are still the top-priced ticket but are well below box office. Also, much to my surprise, tickets for the other Canadian teams, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, are priced comparable with Atlanta and Florida. So what gives? I'm starting to wonder if many of the season tickets sold by the Sabres are people more interested in flipping them than watching games. It's kind of like condos in Florida. They looked hot because everybody was buying them, but not to live in. Perhaps a good winning streak will jump the market? PTR Those of us who have had season's would have told you that the market isn't what it was. That being said, you can still sell off the Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa games fairly easily for a price between season tix level and the absurd face value. I no longer do this as I stupidly starting selling tickets to friends and no longer make anything selling tickets.
weehawk Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 Wow! I just cant imagine a worse time to get into a remote ticket reselling situation. The concert ticket market has totally crashed, with people snapping up prime seats at or below face. The same is true for sports. You need to hope to god they win like mad (early) and ticket fever sets in. However, in this economy even a winning streak may not do it for you. The location of the seats could also impact your sales. Upside: if they go to the conf or SC finals, those seats for next year's season will increase in value. I live in Raleigh and that's 700 miles away. I could not imagine trying this in this ticket market and economy. I think you'll be doing well to get all of your original investment back and likely not much more. Good luck.
Spudz Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 All about winning. In 2001-2003 I used to go to games for $15 on Friday night, and I didn't purchase them until that day. I will say that Buffalo has more Sabres bandwagon fans then the Bills. Team has sucked for 10 years and they still sellout pretty much every game. If the sabres miss out on the playoffs for 10 years I'd bet good money that Friday night for $15 tickets would be available.
LabattBlue Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 I will say that Buffalo has more Sabres bandwagon fans then the Bills. Team has sucked for 10 years and they still sellout pretty much every game. It also helps that the bulk of seats at RWS(outside of the suites) are fairly priced vs. the Sabres where many are $100+ per seat for some crappy regular season game.
Spudz Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 It also helps that the bulk of seats at RWS(outside of the suites) are fairly priced vs. the Sabres where many are $100+ per seat for some crappy regular season game. True dat I cannot believe they want $150-$200 a seat for 1 game out of 36(?). That is a major reason why I go to AHL games instead. I can be along the boards for $25, and still see good hockey. I'm cheap what can I say.
sweeper Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 True dat I cannot believe they want $150-$200 a seat for 1 game out of 36(?). That is a major reason why I go to AHL games instead. I can be along the boards for $25, and still see good hockey. I'm cheap what can I say. It's 41, by the way...
Spudz Posted October 2, 2009 Report Posted October 2, 2009 It's 41, by the way... Thanks, I'm lazy too :thumbsup:
annapolis Posted October 3, 2009 Report Posted October 3, 2009 I have thought for a couple of years now that the Sabres have become too greedy in terms of the tiered/box office pricing. When the team had their two runs to the conference finals, people were willing to pay anything for a seat. Now that they have cooled off, the ridiculous box office pricing doesn't look as appealing. The Sabres only sold out 25 or so games last year(even though many of the non-sellouts were by less than 500 seats) and I expect that downward trend to continue this year unless the Sabres find a way to get the juices flowing again amongst the fan base. They have even crossed the price line of the Canadien fans. Two of the smallest crowds last year(I believe around 16,500 - 17,000) were games against Montreal and Toronto(I'd venture to guess that they were super titanium level games), so I guess they have wised up to Quinny's plan that they will pay to see their team at any cost. I am also a remote season ticket holder (Annapolis, MD). I should make all my money back this year just by selling everything online for below face value. One tip for those trying to sell online-the softest resale games are the two weeks before Christmas. As for variable pricing, I hate to tell you Old Fart, but it is here to stay. While the Sabres may have pioneered it for the 05/06 season they are currently behind the trend. Many teams (in other sports) now vary the prices for their stock of unsold tickets day-by-day and even in the hours leading up to the game. Almost like an auction. The other reason it won't go away is because it works. According to ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2009 the Sabres have had very few empty seats each year since the variable scheme was implemented: Season # of empty seats 2000/01 34,852 01/02 60,822 02/03 201,463 03/04 139,387 04/05 Lockout 05/06 73,961 (first year of variable pricing) 06/07 0 07/08 861 (attendance at HSBC was 746,739 for 40 games) 08/09 6492 I think the real test for variable pricing was last year, coming off a non-playoff season. Considering that in 02/03 they averaged 4900 empty seats per game I think the pricing works since the total empty seats last season was 6492. I like that the Sabres are willing to tweak the formula every year, offer incentives to own season tickets, and spread out the payments. For those who hate variable pricing, please explain why the Friday Jan 8 game against Toronto should cost the same as the Wednesday January 6 game against Tampa? The variable pricing is to attract and hold season ticket holders and keep Leaf games a Sabre home game. The reason the Leaf game didn't sell out last year is because the Leafs' sucked. Even their fans were turned off.
LabattBlue Posted October 3, 2009 Report Posted October 3, 2009 I am also a remote season ticket holder (Annapolis, MD). I should make all my money back this year just by selling everything online for below face value. One tip for those trying to sell online-the softest resale games are the two weeks before Christmas. As for variable pricing, I hate to tell you Old Fart, but it is here to stay. While the Sabres may have pioneered it for the 05/06 season they are currently behind the trend. Many teams (in other sports) now vary the prices for their stock of unsold tickets day-by-day and even in the hours leading up to the game. Almost like an auction. The other reason it won't go away is because it works. According to ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2009 the Sabres have had very few empty seats each year since the variable scheme was implemented: Season # of empty seats 2000/01 34,852 01/02 60,822 02/03 201,463 03/04 139,387 04/05 Lockout 05/06 73,961 (first year of variable pricing) 06/07 0 07/08 861 (attendance at HSBC was 746,739 for 40 games) 08/09 6492 I think the real test for variable pricing was last year, coming off a non-playoff season. Considering that in 02/03 they averaged 4900 empty seats per game I think the pricing works since the total empty seats last season was 6492. I like that the Sabres are willing to tweak the formula every year, offer incentives to own season tickets, and spread out the payments. For those who hate variable pricing, please explain why the Friday Jan 8 game against Toronto should cost the same as the Wednesday January 6 game against Tampa? The variable pricing is to attract and hold season ticket holders and keep Leaf games a Sabre home game. The reason the Leaf game didn't sell out last year is because the Leafs' sucked. Even their fans were turned off. Nice numbers. Did you consider that the Sabres success in 05-06 & 06-07 had a great deal to do with ticket sales instead of the implementation of variable ticket pricing? They have burned through most of the huge waiting list they had created during the conference final run. Let's see how attendance goes this year. Maybe I'm wrong. PS I wasn't advocating that tiered pricing be eliminated by the Sabres. They just need to keep their greed in check. Have you noticed how they now only have a handful of value games and at the same time added a higher end tier last year? I have season tickets and enjoy the discounts, but the people who can't afford season tickets are the same people who are not going to lay out 75+ a ticket box office prices(especially when the level of pay drops off).
annapolis Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Nice numbers. Did you consider that the Sabres success in 05-06 & 06-07 had a great deal to do with ticket sales instead of the implementation of variable ticket pricing? They have burned through most of the huge waiting list they had created during the conference final run. Let's see how attendance goes this year. Maybe I'm wrong. PS I wasn't advocating that tiered pricing be eliminated by the Sabres. They just need to keep their greed in check. Have you noticed how they now only have a handful of value games and at the same time added a higher end tier last year? I have season tickets and enjoy the discounts, but the people who can't afford season tickets are the same people who are not going to lay out 75+ a ticket box office prices(especially when the level of pay drops off). I think the Sabres realized their mistakes last year. Only two Platinum games, both against TO and both on Fridays. Also not raising prices was a nice touch. Below is ranked the best attendance figures followed by our conference position that season: Season Empty Seats Final Standings 06/07 0 1 07/08 861 10 08/09 6492 10 00/01 34,852 5 01/02 60,822 10 05/06 73,961 4 03/04 139,387 9 02/03 201,463 12 Doesn't look like there is much correlation between on-ice success and ticket sales. Of course in there are hot streaks, the Rigas fiasco, lockout hangover, etc. Hard to tell what really affects ticket sales. I don't think there is any doubt that the marketing department has done a great job filling the arena. The hard part is maximizing the revenue without being greedy.
Taro T Posted October 5, 2009 Report Posted October 5, 2009 I am also a remote season ticket holder (Annapolis, MD). I should make all my money back this year just by selling everything online for below face value. One tip for those trying to sell online-the softest resale games are the two weeks before Christmas. As for variable pricing, I hate to tell you Old Fart, but it is here to stay. While the Sabres may have pioneered it for the 05/06 season they are currently behind the trend. Many teams (in other sports) now vary the prices for their stock of unsold tickets day-by-day and even in the hours leading up to the game. Almost like an auction. The other reason it won't go away is because it works. According to ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2009 the Sabres have had very few empty seats each year since the variable scheme was implemented: Season # of empty seats 2000/01 34,852 01/02 60,822 02/03 201,463 03/04 139,387 04/05 Lockout 05/06 73,961 (first year of variable pricing) 06/07 0 07/08 861 (attendance at HSBC was 746,739 for 40 games) 08/09 6492 I think the real test for variable pricing was last year, coming off a non-playoff season. Considering that in 02/03 they averaged 4900 empty seats per game I think the pricing works since the total empty seats last season was 6492. I like that the Sabres are willing to tweak the formula every year, offer incentives to own season tickets, and spread out the payments. For those who hate variable pricing, please explain why the Friday Jan 8 game against Toronto should cost the same as the Wednesday January 6 game against Tampa? The variable pricing is to attract and hold season ticket holders and keep Leaf games a Sabre home game. The reason the Leaf game didn't sell out last year is because the Leafs' sucked. Even their fans were turned off. I'd agree with your later post that there isn't much correlation between empty seats and on ice performance. I wouldn't put too much faith in the actual #'s though, because they include a mix of results from 2 different ownership groups, each with significantly different ways of doing things. Remember, during the criminals' reign the Sabres gave out gratis a LARGE number of tix, especially in the early part of the season. When Golisano took over, freebies were significantly reduced. I also agree that variable pricing is here to stay. The Sabres used to have extreme difficulty selling Oct/Nov tix, whether they were coming off good playoff runs or poor seasons. Even in '99-'00 there were empty seats in the early season. The playoff runs post-lockout account for a significant portion of the additional ticket sales, but the variable pricing was part of it and that is what keeps the sales up. Few people will give up their seats when they think they can resell the tix w/out facing scalping issues (you can sell a ticket you paid $84 for, for a $149 markup w/out exceeding face value). (As you attested, you are going to make your money back on the tix selling them on-line.) Especially w/ so many outlets to try to get rid of tix - stubhub, Craig's list, E-bay, ticket exchange, etc., I think the Sabres will have to have at least a couple year run of Islander quality hockey to get back to the days of 6,000 tix remaining for an Islander game in October. Throw in the fact that falling ~100 or so seats short of selling out a platinum game is absolutely going to maximize ticket revenue, and variable pricing is here to stay.
super.jm Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 I accept anticipation of purchasing division tickets with the anticipation of accessory a few amateur but affairs the majority on craigslist or stubhub. Glad I never fabricated the plunge. I've been aggravating to accomplish the altercation back endure year that interest/attendance was crumbling but numbers were consistently advance in my face about how appearance was soaring. _________________ :)
SteamRoller72 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Posted October 12, 2009 This year I made the plunge and bought Sabres seasons. Even though I live over 500 miles from HSBC, I figured I would be able to sell my unused seats through StubHub fairly easily. Here we are just a few days from the start of the season and I'm noticing a few things. One, even though I've sold a few games, tickets are not moving like I thought. Two, because of sluggish sales, prices are really low. You'd think the Red Wings would be a premium draw but you can get tickets on StubHub dirt cheap and they still aren't selling. Three, even games against Montreal and Toronto are not moving. Yes, they are still the top-priced ticket but are well below box office. Also, much to my surprise, tickets for the other Canadian teams, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, are priced comparable with Atlanta and Florida. So what gives? I'm starting to wonder if many of the season tickets sold by the Sabres are people more interested in flipping them than watching games. It's kind of like condos in Florida. They looked hot because everybody was buying them, but not to live in. Perhaps a good winning streak will jump the market? PTR I just bought 2 tickets off StubHub for the Red Wings game today...Center Ice, sec 306 for $82.00. The box office prices are too steep for me. I'll pick and choose 10 games a year to attend at an affordable price. Weekday games carry the lowest value for the season ticket holder. There's 1500 seats available on StubHub 36 hours before the puck drops.
Ohiofan Posted October 14, 2009 Report Posted October 14, 2009 I accept anticipation of purchasing division tickets with the anticipation of accessory a few amateur but affairs the majority on craigslist or stubhub. Glad I never fabricated the plunge. I've been aggravating to accomplish the altercation back endure year that interest/attendance was crumbling but numbers were consistently advance in my face about how appearance was soaring. _________________ :) Huh...?
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