LabattBlue Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 I really don't see the point of comparing any team to Pittsburgh. It was the OP who wanted to use Pittsburgh to prove his point. Then once it was shown that Pittsburgh's 3rd and 4th liners were no better in terms of scoring than Buffalo's, he moved on to piss all over some other posts.
shrader Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 It was the OP who wanted to use Pittsburgh to prove his point. Then once it was shown that Pittsburgh's 3rd and 4th liners were no better in terms of scoring than Buffalo's, he moved on to piss all over some other posts. Yeah, I know that this is his MO. We've been seeing it for weeks now and we'll see it with his 4th username soon enough. I quoted carp since it was the most recent post on that subject. It does go to show though that different lineup styles can work, depending on if you have the right players to fill that style. There is no right answer here.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 It was the OP who wanted to use Pittsburgh to prove his point. Then once it was shown that Pittsburgh's 3rd and 4th liners were no better in terms of scoring than Buffalo's, he moved on to piss all over some other posts. 1. wrong, the OP didn't use Pittsburgh by itself to make his point. 2. wrong, Buffalo's 3/4 liners weren't as good as Pittsburgh's Here is just one example, 3rd line center Pittsburgh: Stall Buffalo: Gaustad nice try 3. I didn't just move on as if you have some sort of counterpoint, make a valid counterpoint first, don't spew nonsense.
... Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 Every post is like decaying flesh in stop motion.
LabattBlue Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 1. wrong, the OP didn't use Pittsburgh by itself to make his point. 2. wrong, Buffalo's 3/4 liners weren't as good as Pittsburgh's Here is just one example, 3rd line center Pittsburgh: Stall Buffalo: Gaustad nice try 3. I didn't just move on as if you have some sort of counterpoint, make a valid counterpoint first, don't spew nonsense. Your act is getting tired very quickly. Are you hoping for a short stay here?
nfreeman Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 Your act is getting tired very quickly. Are you hoping for a short stay here? And the crowd roars: Kill him! Kill him! Kill him!
LabattBlue Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 And the crowd roars: Kill him! Kill him! Kill him! Who should I spare Barabbas or Truth? :death: :lol: :lol:
That Aud Smell Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 Your act is getting tired very quickly. Are you hoping for a short stay here? i went to manage my ignored users so that i could add this guy, and saw KK6666 and G.M. there as well - i sort of figure that they're all one in the same person.
inkman Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 I didn't just move on as if you have some sort of counterpoint, make a valid counterpoint first, don't spew nonsense. Your act is getting tired very quickly. Are you hoping for a short stay here? He actually has some valid points, but his method of conveying them is slightly abrasive to say the least. How much different are his points from Deluca's but the difference is style. If his goal was to come in here, spew his POV, tell everyone else they are wrong with insults then get flamed, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 Your act is getting tired very quickly. Are you hoping for a short stay here? Act huh? So you don't permit certain users to state facts? In other words if I state a fact that exposes a comment as bogus, you don't like it. So we want to pretend? We want to pretend when someone rattle off bogus statements that those statements have substance so that the selected user apperas to be making a valid point? Yeah that's good way to conduct a debate alright. I guess if you establish rules like that the select members will never look like anything but experts. LOL I guess maybe that's the idea, having an opinion challenged is a threat so lets force feed straw man arguments with moderator threats. Don't tell us you never said what we fabricated or else, hahaha.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 And the crowd roars: Kill him! Kill him! Kill him! The moderator is here! It reminds me of a group of kids who stir something up and then when they find out they're over matched momma comes running down the street, then everything is ok.
nfreeman Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 The moderator is here! It reminds me of a group of kids who stir something up and then when they find out they're over matched momma comes running down the street, then everything is ok. Dude, do you really not get it? No one has a problem with your hockey opinions. They are good opinions. Everyone has a problem with your manners. Your tone is obnoxious and insulting. If you can communicate in a respectful manner, then stay a while. If you can't -- go away and don't come back.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 OK, here's something for you. After undoing the trade deadline moves (Kunitz and Guerin were a big infusion of scoring for their playoff run), here's a graph of Penguins' ranked scorers against the Sabres: and the same for goals: Basically, if a point is above the line, the Penguins' equivalently ranked player (e.g., 10th vs. 10th) scored more; below the line, the Sabres' player scored more. The depth on the Sabres looks at least as good and possibly better. The top scorers were the difference. If I have time later, I'll check a few other teams, but I'm guessing that it won't be that different. If Stafford finds consistency, Connolly stays healthy and Pommer, Hecht and even Roy rebound (point-wise), they will be fine for scoring. You talk about Guerin and Kunitz as if they weren't part of this team. The made a rally moving up in the standings after the deadline WITH Kunitz and Guerin! They won the cup with the team that INCLUDED Kunitz and Guerin! These weren't players just there on a visit they played a big role. Buffalo has the same opportunity to trade for players as Pittsburgh does.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 Dude, do you really not get it? No one has a problem with your hockey opinions. They are good opinions. Everyone has a problem with your manners. Your tone is obnoxious and insulting. If you can communicate in a respectful manner, then stay a while. If you can't -- go away and don't come back. Manners, this is coming from you? I'll pit mine against yours. Would you like some quotes? I fully understand you already assume that you're entitled to operate under a different code of conduct, and I agree that this is exactly what happens. But don't try to pawn yourself off as discussing things civilly, you're one of the worse offenders.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 Lighten up Francis... You first Lance.
That Aud Smell Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 No one has a problem with your hockey opinions. They are good opinions. Everyone has a problem with your manners. Your tone is obnoxious and insulting. If you can communicate in a respectful manner, then stay a while. If you can't -- go away and don't come back. hear, hear.
nfreeman Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 Manners, this is coming from you? I'll pit mine against yours. Would you like some quotes? I fully understand you already assume that you're entitled to operate under a different code of conduct, and I agree that this is exactly what happens. But don't try to pawn yourself off as discussing things civilly, you're one of the worse offenders. Oooooooohhhhh. Good comeback. "You are doing XYZ." "No, YOU are." Very clever. Don't worry about me. Look at your posts and then look at others'. Do you think it's a coincidence that you keep getting expelled? Is everyone just being mean and ganging up on you for no reason? Or is there a problem with the way you communicate? BTW, if you learn how to communicate better on this board, it will probably help you in life as well. Just about any job you have will involve plenty of email. You don't want people at work to react to your written communications in the same way people here do. And with that, I'm signing off of this debate. Good luck to you.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 Yep! They'll never win a Cup with that system. :doh: Correct BUFFALO will never win the cup with this lineup playing the NJ system. Because these forwards don't match that system in any way shape or form. Neither does the goalie.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 Oooooooohhhhh. Good comeback. "You are doing XYZ." "No, YOU are." Very clever. Don't worry about me. Look at your posts and then look at others'. Do you think it's a coincidence that you keep getting expelled? Is everyone just being mean and ganging up on you for no reason? Or is there a problem with the way you communicate? BTW, if you learn how to communicate better on this board, it will probably help you in life as well. Just about any job you have will involve plenty of email. You don't want people at work to react to your written communications in the same way people here do. And with that, I'm signing off of this debate. Good luck to you. I need life advice from you? Oh brother, now I've heard it all, just watch your head as you're trying to make it through doorways
shrader Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 The moderator is here! It reminds me of a group of kids who stir something up and then when they find out they're over matched momma comes running down the street, then everything is ok. Calling nfreeman a moderator. Hmmmm, where have we seen this before? Why do you keep coming back after you get the boot? You spew insults non-stop, completely clouding any hockey points you are trying to make. People don't see a guru or hockey truth, they just see some obnoxious little prick who thinks he's better than everyone else.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 I think the 3rd line is the lock down line as constituted. Hecht-Gaustad-Grier does have the potential to be more of a lock down line than a scoring line. The 4th line won't be on the ice with the game on the line. Think about it, if they had won just fifty percent of the games they had a lead in after 2 last year, they would have been in the playoffs. I'm not asking for 39-1-1 (although I would love it), just fifty percent better than last year. I think the 3rd line will play a lot against the opposing team's first line. Gaustad will be out there taking the opening draw most nights. I don't know what significance there is for Gaustad taking the opening draw, but whatever. And although Grier is a solid defender, Goose ia just average. I don't see how you expect this third line to make that kind of impact on that stat. What do you envision, when Buffalo gets the lead Ruff sends this line out to close it out? These stats don't just refer to leads with 2 minutes left in the game. Do you honestly envision Ruff pitting this "shutdown line" against the league's top lines to protect a lead say going into the 3rd period? If he takes that route in anything but situations very late in the game their win/loss record will get worse. You do not do this with one line, and in particular with this line. He already tried this last season and you see the results, Grier is not going to single-handledly make the difference. How many games did we see them try to kill the clock and get burned? You need a team of players to work the trap.
HockeyTruth Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Posted September 30, 2009 I think the 3rd line is the lock down line as constituted. Hecht-Gaustad-Grier does have the potential to be more of a lock down line than a scoring line. The 4th line won't be on the ice with the game on the line. Think about it, if they had won just fifty percent of the games they had a lead in after 2 last year, they would have been in the playoffs. I'm not asking for 39-1-1 (although I would love it), just fifty percent better than last year. I think the 3rd line will play a lot against the opposing team's first line. Gaustad will be out there taking the opening draw most nights. I wanted to add that as another poster mentioned, you won't see this line out there against top lines. It'll be our top two lines against the opponents tops lines, I would bet the ranch that you will not see it.
carpandean Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 You talk about Guerin and Kunitz as if they weren't part of this team. The made a rally moving up in the standings after the deadline WITH Kunitz and Guerin! They won the cup with the team that INCLUDED Kunitz and Guerin! These weren't players just there on a visit they played a big role. Buffalo has the same opportunity to trade for players as Pittsburgh does. Those two were clearly good acquisitions that certainly help them win the cup and likely would have helped Buffalo make the playoffs. That's a whole separate argument. Unfortunately, their stat lines include a substantial number of points that were not part of Pittsburgh's secondary scoring (they were part of Anaheim's and the Islanders'), so to save some time (ideally, I would have calculated their and Whitney's points while Penguins and somehow adjusted for being just partial seasons; likewise with Kotalik and Moore), I simply looked at the two rosters for the majority of the season. These, too included some points not actually scored as Penguins (those by Whitney for Anaheim), but far fewer of them. If I were trying to publish this study, I would have been far more scientific about it. This was simply a back-of-the-envelope study. I fully intended to look at some other teams for the reasons that shrader mentioned. I do, however, expect the results to be similar. We shall see.
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