Preseason Game One Discussion

[shrader]

Yeah, but Hamilton also said that the coaching staff seems poised to ship people out who are not performing up to expectations and put in those who are. And that's not contradictory; it just means that, like he said, Myers can play himself off the team. If Weber continues to be the better D man, based on what the Sabres are allegedly saying, then I fully expect them to keep him here instead of Myers.

 

Same goes for the Ennis, Kennedy, Gerbe fight.

 

The problem that you're missing is this: Rivet, Lydman, Butler, Tallinder, Sekera, Montador, Paetsch. Someone has to be moved to make room for either Weber or Myers. Now I know the "dump Paetsch/Tallinder" response is out there somewhere, but they can't just go and get rid of a defenseman with nothing in return. You can never have too many quality NHL defensemen. If by some chance Paetsch has a two-way contract, I could see an attempted waiving so he can be sent to Portland, but that's it. The only other real option is Butler since he is exempt from waivers.

 

 

I've been getting the feeling over the last couple days that we will end up seeing a lot of Ennis throughout this season. It's not really based on much since I haven't seen him play, but I get this feeling that he'll jump over the rest of the Portland forwards on the depth chart at some point.

[nfreeman]

This may be a good enough reminder for me to stock up on my personal library (where I can order stuff) over the next seven months.

 

I'm just glad I didn't renew NHL Center Ice for this season.

So...you're not going to watch the games, but you're still going to post political & religious stuff? No thanks.

 

I was at the game tonight.

 

Weber was the standout dman of the night; calm, cool and collective. He's NHL ready, and he has a mean side to him.

 

Tyler Myers played a strong game, other than getting the puck out of the zone and up to the forwards. He needs some work on that. However, I did like his play when he was without the puck; positioning, checking and play along the boards were all quite good.

 

The Vanek Ennis Pommers line was very dangerous. Vanek looked spectacular. He was creating scoring chances left and right. Ennis moved well and will be an NHL center one day, mark my words on that. Pommers looked to be a little quicker than last season.

Thanks for the report. I like what I've heard about Ennis so far. The Sabres need another dynamic forward.

 

Yeah, but Hamilton also said that the coaching staff seems poised to ship people out who are not performing up to expectations and put in those who are. And that's not contradictory; it just means that, like he said, Myers can play himself off the team. If Weber continues to be the better D man, based on what the Sabres are allegedly saying, then I fully expect them to keep him here instead of Myers.

 

Same goes for the Ennis, Kennedy, Gerbe fight.

Good call. I would prefer (and I think the Sabres would prefer) that Weber be the guy who steps up this year and Myers gets another year of seasoning. I'd be very happy with a top 6 of:

 

Rivet-Lydman

Butler-Montador

Sekera-Weber

[...]

The problem that you're missing is this: Rivet, Lydman, Butler, Tallinder, Sekera, Montador, Paetsch. Someone has to be moved to make room for either Weber or Myers. Now I know the "dump Paetsch/Tallinder" response is out there somewhere, but they can't just go and get rid of a defenseman with nothing in return. You can never have too many quality NHL defensemen. If by some chance Paetsch has a two-way contract, I could see an attempted waiving so he can be sent to Portland, but that's it. The only other real option is Butler since he is exempt from waivers.

 

 

 

I'm not missing any problem. The scuttlebutt has been "Myers has earned a spot" or "is fighting for a spot". I didn't make up this action line, but I am responding to it. In fact, I think the Sabres are the source of this because if you read their news and watch the interviews on their site, they make it sound like a spot is there to fight for on D.

 

And between what's on the Sabres' site and what Hamilton had to say yesterday, it sounds like Tallinder's spot is up in the air right now, too.

 

LR mentioned he wants to see what Butler and Sekera can do on the PP - Butler scored from the point last night - so I doubt highly that Butler's spot is up in the air. He would really have to screw up to lose it.

[VansTheMans]

I hope they keep Ennis in the line-up until the Toronto game. I want to see him playing in "a game" on that line. IIRC, he was saying in one of the recent Sabres interviews that he quite liked playing center - and of course that's what the Sabres need is a good center.

 

Did he take any face-offs?

 

Yea, he took several faceoffs (i.e. most of them). He seemed to do fairly well in the circle. However, I think Pommers began to take a few faceoffs in the 3rd period. Not entirely sure why.

 

On GR yesterday I heard hamilton saying that Weber very well be the odd man out. After listening to the game It sounded like he had a solid outting. I have always thought Weber was a decent player and should be given a chance. Based on one preseason game would you pencil him in as one of your six?

 

Yes. I would gladly play Weber over Tallinder. Weber makes excellent decisions in his own zone with the puck, can pass the puck up to the forwards very well and he isn't afraid to hit people. He "boarded" one Washington player in the 3rd and caused a scuffle. Weber plays like a veteran dman. Weber was paired with Sekera. I'd like to see that as a pairing this year in the NHL, as they had great success playing with each other in the 07-08 season.

[shrader]

I'm not missing any problem. The scuttlebutt has been "Myers has earned a spot" or "is fighting for a spot". I didn't make up this action line, but I am responding to it. In fact, I think the Sabres are the source of this because if you read their news and watch the interviews on their site, they make it sound like a spot is there to fight for on D.

 

And between what's on the Sabres' site and what Hamilton had to say yesterday, it sounds like Tallinder's spot is up in the air right now, too.

 

LR mentioned he wants to see what Butler and Sekera can do on the PP - Butler scored from the point last night - so I doubt highly that Butler's spot is up in the air. He would really have to screw up to lose it.

 

It really wasn't a response to you specifically, but this thread as a whole with this discussion of Weber/Myers. They can say whatever they want about a spot being open, but at the end of the day, money rules all. They are not going to eat Tallinder's salary and they are not going to dump Paetsch if he's on a one-way deal. In the short-term, they will keep Myers in juniors and Weber in the AHL because they can. I mention Butler because he's the only other defenseman that they can move around freely.

[...]

It really wasn't a response to you specifically, but this thread as a whole with this discussion of Weber/Myers. They can say whatever they want about a spot being open, but at the end of the day, money rules all. They are not going to eat Tallinder's salary and they are not going to dump Paetsch if he's on a one-way deal. In the short-term, they will keep Myers in juniors and Weber in the AHL because they can. I mention Butler because he's the only other defenseman that they can move around freely.

 

 

I hear you. The whole scenario seems predicated, then, on Tallinder being sent down, or benched, and instead of Paetsch picking up the spot, Webers or Myers will.

 

There is a whole lot of precedent to make me inclined to agree with you that the money will talk here - however it's pretty clear that someone over in the Sabres office wants us to believe otherwise. I'm willing to suspend any judgment until the official lines are posted for opening night.

[nfreeman]

Yes. I would gladly play Weber over Tallinder. Weber makes excellent decisions in his own zone with the puck, can pass the puck up to the forwards very well and he isn't afraid to hit people. He "boarded" one Washington player in the 3rd and caused a scuffle. Weber plays like a veteran dman. Weber was paired with Sekera. I'd like to see that as a pairing this year in the NHL, as they had great success playing with each other in the 07-08 season.

Well, this may have been the case last night, and as I mentioned I'd love to see him step up, but Weber looked well over his head last year during his limited time in Buffalo.

 

It really wasn't a response to you specifically, but this thread as a whole with this discussion of Weber/Myers. They can say whatever they want about a spot being open, but at the end of the day, money rules all. They are not going to eat Tallinder's salary and they are not going to dump Paetsch if he's on a one-way deal. In the short-term, they will keep Myers in juniors and Weber in the AHL because they can. I mention Butler because he's the only other defenseman that they can move around freely.

I hear you. The whole scenario seems predicated, then, on Tallinder being sent down, or benched, and instead of Paetsch picking up the spot, Webers or Myers will.

 

There is a whole lot of precedent to make me inclined to agree with you that the money will talk here - however it's pretty clear that someone over in the Sabres office wants us to believe otherwise. I'm willing to suspend any judgment until the official lines are posted for opening night.

It's not impossible to me that they would carry 8 defensemen and healthy-scratch both Paetsch and Tallinder, or that they would try to send Tallinder down and expose him to waivers, hoping someone solves their problem by claiming him (although I think the Sabres would be on the hook for half his salary). DR and LR need to win this year. They are stuck paying Tallinder's salary either way, so why not play the best guy?

[carpandean]

Yea, he took several faceoffs (i.e. most of them). He seemed to do fairly well in the circle. However, I think Pommers began to take a few faceoffs in the 3rd period. Not entirely sure why.

Ennis only won 4 of 13 faceoffs that he took (36%) and all of the ones that he won were in the offensive zone. He was 0 for 5 in the neutral and defensive zones. Kennedy was about the same, winning 4 of 14 (29%), all but one win coming in the offensive zone. It was, however, just one game. The usually reliable (~50%) Roy went 5 for 14 (36%) and the usually anemic Hecht went 6 for 9 (67%), so we'll have to wait for more evidence.

 

Yes. I would gladly play Weber over Tallinder. Weber makes excellent decisions in his own zone with the puck, can pass the puck up to the forwards very well and he isn't afraid to hit people. He "boarded" one Washington player in the 3rd and caused a scuffle. Weber plays like a veteran dman. Weber was paired with Sekera. I'd like to see that as a pairing this year in the NHL, as they had great success playing with each other in the 07-08 season.

One knock on Weber is that he takes a lot of bad penalties. He actually came out of the box last year after, I believe, a 4-minute minor and went after a guy, leading to a total of six minutes of potential power play. If I remember correctly, the other team scored on the last PP and Portland lost the game. He will need to clean up (not by hitting less, but by making sure they are legal, especially in big moments of the game and by controlling his temper) if he wants a spot. I'm sure that taking a boarding penalty in the last 15 seconds of a tie game when they are already short handed didn't help his case there.

[shrader]

There is a whole lot of precedent to make me inclined to agree with you that the money will talk here - however it's pretty clear that someone over in the Sabres office wants us to believe otherwise. I'm willing to suspend any judgment until the official lines are posted for opening night.

 

Do they want us to believe it or do they want the players to believe it?

 

 

It's not impossible to me that they would carry 8 defensemen and healthy-scratch both Paetsch and Tallinder, or that they would try to send Tallinder down and expose him to waivers, hoping someone solves their problem by claiming him (although I think the Sabres would be on the hook for half his salary). DR and LR need to win this year. They are stuck paying Tallinder's salary either way, so why not play the best guy?

 

I can't see them carrying 8. They only did that last year because Butler came out of nowhere and shocked everyone. Carrying 8 is much easier to do late in the year with the expanded rosters post-trade deadline. Most teams are going to stay one player short of the roster limit at the start so they can conserve as much cap space as possible. If they carry 8 early, that won't be possible unless they don't bother with a reserve forward at all. Sure, Paetsch can play up front, but I absolutely hate that idea. With all of the NHL-ready forwards they have waiting, they shouldn't be burning that forward slot on Paetsch.

[LabattBlue]

Well that's encouraging but I'm going to be from missouri on this one and say I need to see it before I believe it since we have heard that kind of mantra before only to see it not consistently followed...

:thumbsup:

[...]

Essentially they're still stuck where we all identified them to be before camp began - too many forwards, and too many D men.

[LabattBlue]

Essentially they're still stuck where we all identified them to be before camp began - too many forwards, and too many D men.

That's what happens when you are still having a love affair with many of the same players who got you to the conference finals 3 year ago. <_<

[Mbossy]

My take after being at the game:

 

Defense

Didn't notice Butler or Sekera making any mistakes, both had good hard shots from the point (on the net too).

Gragnani sucked moose. Maybe he just had a bad game, but it seemed whenever we gave up the puck in our end or when they scored, there he was.

Weber. Reading other posts it seems he made a much bigger impression on you guys than he did on me.

Myers. He worked the puck out of our zone well and made some good first passes. His decision making ability in the offensive zone, not so much. He seemed to make the right decision when it came time to pinch, but he would make it 2-3 seconds too late and end up getting caught.

 

Forwards:

Kennedy, Gerbe and Ennis all looked better than last season, bigger and faster. Ennis has got some speed. He was a full 10 yards behind the opposing rushing Cap player and caught up to him within 3 strides and took the puck away. Seemed right at home playing center.

 

Gerbe has to shoot more this year. He also seems to try to go through people instead of around them. He ends up getting pushed off the puck during rushes. His play along the wall is good, he will battle.

 

Vanek and Pominville really stood out as the men among boys, setting up chances, getting the puck along the boards.

 

Paille showed some brute taking a few Cap players heads off last night. He's in an odd spot having a two-way deal and fighting for a spot.

 

Hecht and McCormick (insert usual sentence here)

 

Stafford and Roy really clicked. If this is the system Lindy is talking about, where your teammates can rely on you to be "there", they've got it. Their positioning was great. McCarthur looked less AHL'esq and more like a true NHL'er.

 

I'd expect Gogulla, Gragnani, Kostka to be sent back to juniors or AHL next to let some others play.

[VansTheMans]

Ennis only won 4 of 13 faceoffs that he took (36%) and all of the ones that he won were in the offensive zone. He was 0 for 5 in the neutral and defensive zones. Kennedy was about the same, winning 4 of 14 (29%), all but one win coming in the offensive zone. It was, however, just one game. The usually reliable (~50%) Roy went 5 for 14 (36%) and the usually anemic Hecht went 6 for 9 (67%), so we'll have to wait for more evidence.

 

 

 

 

Those musta been the ones when he was done at my end of the ice. :thumbsup:

[LabattBlue]

Gragnani sucked moose. Maybe he just had a bad game, but it seemed whenever we gave up the puck in our end or when they scored, there he was.

Gragnani had good success when he played at forward two years ago for Rochester(i believe it was for the better part of a half of the season). With the overflowing blueline depth in Buffalo, in the minors and in the amateur ranks combined with the fact that Gragnani sucks at being a defenseman, why they don't move him to forward permanently is mind boggling. :blink:

[Mbossy]

Ennis only won 4 of 13 faceoffs that he took (36%) and all of the ones that he won were in the offensive zone. He was 0 for 5 in the neutral and defensive zones. Kennedy was about the same, winning 4 of 14 (29%), all but one win coming in the offensive zone. It was, however, just one game. The usually reliable (~50%) Roy went 5 for 14 (36%) and the usually anemic Hecht went 6 for 9 (67%), so we'll have to wait for more evidence.

FWIW, they were taking faceoffs against Backstrom most of the time. I think he's got a 50% win percentage.

[FogBat]

So...you're not going to watch the games, but you're still going to post political & religious stuff? No thanks.

My apologies. I just do not have a very good sense of optimism about the team this season. Actually, it's not so much the players I'm concerned about, it's the people in the FO who make me want to pull my hair out. Others have already pointed out how much the FO has been putting them through endless frustration, so for me to say anything more about them right now is redundant and beating a dead horse.

 

EDIT: I just feel that if we're going to see nothing more than a lackluster effort on the ice this season, then there is really no point in me following an organization whose front office appears to have a DILLIGAF (Do I Look Like I Give A Flip) attitude toward the fans. Hence the final line on my signature.

[SabresBillsFan]

I think Myers will be a fine defenseman in the years to come but for a man that big he doesn't really use his body to his full advantage. He should be clearing people away from the front of the net and be a mean defenseman. I would expect Weber to be the extra defensman this year and Myers get sent down to junior to work on putting more muscle and working on the little things.

[Foligno's Nose]

The problem that you're missing is this: Rivet, Lydman, Butler, Tallinder, Sekera, Montador, Paetsch. Someone has to be moved to make room for either Weber or Myers. Now I know the "dump Paetsch/Tallinder" response is out there somewhere, but they can't just go and get rid of a defenseman with nothing in return. You can never have too many quality NHL defensemen.

 

Here it is:

 

Ummmmm...

 

They should dump Paetsch and/or Tallinder!

 

And, according to Brian Burke, you need a core of at least eight defensemen for a season, providing that one or two go up and down from the minors - I guess.

[Mbossy]

For those that are curious about the center ice logo. As mentioned before, it looks the same as last year.

 

 

 

and FWIW, big bottle beers are now 8 bucks and the draft beer still tastes like they don't clean the lines well enough.

 

and... Max's jersey is on clearance. 69 bucks.

[inkman]

Gragnani sucked moose.

Not sure why the forward experiment ended. He was much better up front.

 

Gerbe has to shoot more this year. He also seems to try to go through people instead of around them. He ends up getting pushed off the puck during rushes. His play along the wall is good, he will battle.

Not sure if I agree. I thought he was pushed around all over the ice. Corners, open ice, you name the battle, he was losing it. It seemed like the Caps knew all they had to do was shove him.

 

Paille showed some brute taking a few Cap players heads off last night.

I only saw one hit, which means we won't see another for two months or so.

 

McCarthur looked less AHL'esq and more like a true NHL'er.

If he can continue that into the regular season, I wouldn't hate him on the top 2 lines. His on-ice awareness is light years ahead of last year.

[...]

 

 

Stafford and Roy really clicked. If this is the system Lindy is talking about, where your teammates can rely on you to be "there", they've got it. Their positioning was great. McCarthur looked less AHL'esq and more like a true NHL'er.

 

 

 

Now THAT is what I like to read. Stafford and Roy on one line, JJ Pommers and Vanek on another. That seems so right to me.

[SabresBillsFan]

To the select few lay off on Gerbe. He will be fine. He's a spark plug with his speed and at least he's trying to throw his weight around that's more than I can say about other bigger players on this club. Scoring will come for this guy. I'm sick of people dissing this guy. He's been good at every level of hockey and will be fine at the NHL level once he's here full-time.

 

On another note Weber I think deserves a defensive position and Myers needs at least one more year of development before he's ready for the big time.

[inkman]

On GR yesterday I heard hamilton saying that Weber very well be the odd man out.

I won't question Hamilton's diligence but the only time Myers has looked better than Weber was when he was in Juniors.

 

Now I know the "dump Paetsch/Tallinder" response is out there somewhere, but they can't just go and get rid of a defenseman with nothing in return.

It's not that they can't get rid of them without getting anything in return, they can't get rid of them period. The Sabres aren't willing to potentially lose one of their "assets" through waivers without compensation and we damn well know OSP ain't paying someone who ain't playin here.

 

It really wasn't a response to you specifically, but this thread as a whole with this discussion of Weber/Myers. They can say whatever they want about a spot being open, but at the end of the day, money rules all. They are not going to eat Tallinder's salary and they are not going to dump Paetsch if he's on a one-way deal. In the short-term, they will keep Myers in juniors and Weber in the AHL because they can. I mention Butler because he's the only other defenseman that they can move around freely.

Yes!

 

I hear you. The whole scenario seems predicated, then, on Tallinder being sent down, or benched, and instead of Paetsch picking up the spot, Webers or Myers will.

Tallinder will absolutely not be sent down.

 

I think Myers will be a fine defenseman in the years to come but for a man that big he doesn't really use his body to his full advantage. He should be clearing people away from the front of the net and be a mean defenseman. I would expect Weber to be the extra defensman this year and Myers get sent down to junior to work on putting more muscle and working on the little things.

If Weber is on the Sabres, he's in the top 6. No way they have him sitting the bench instead of getting valuable minutes in the "A".

 

They should dump Paetsch and/or Tallinder!

 

And, according to Brian Burke, you need a core of at least eight defensemen for a season, providing that one or two go up and down from the minors - I guess.

Neither of those guys are going anywhere.

[inkman]

To the select few lay off on Gerbe. He will be fine.

Until I see him skate a shift without ended up on his stubby arse, I can not and will not lay off this midget.