Eleven Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 With Lydman down with a hand injury and Stafford nursing a concussion it may well be Myers and Kennedy starting the season. I just hope Derek Roy had nothing to do with this.
Mbossy Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 I just hope Derek Roy had nothing to do with this. No, that's how Stafford got his concussion.
todzilla Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 What? Do you have NHL Center Ice? Watch some of these awful offensive teams play. The league is devoid of quality #2 centers and wingers. Roy would be a top 6 forward on every team in the NHL, including Detroit, Pittsburgh and San Jose. Pommer is much closer to a marginal top 6 than Roy. Maybe I underestimated him a bit, but I'm not sure what you love so much about Roy. He is very talented and for stretches last year he was great, but he is also infuriating. He turns the puck over too much, he has a rep as a diver (it's gotten better I know),is not great in his own end and is not a very good draw man. I hope he has a great year and proves me wrong.
carpandean Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 Maybe I underestimated him a bit, but I'm not sure what you love so much about Roy. He is very talented and for stretches last year he was great, but he is also infuriating. He turns the puck over too much, he has a rep as a diver (it's gotten better I know),is not great in his own end and is not a very good draw man. I hope he has a great year and proves me wrong. :blink: Roy is defensively responsible and one of our best PKers. He's also #2 on the team in faceoffs, averaging over 50% against mostly top-two centers. I'll give you that the "I can dipsy-doodle a one-on-four" moments that crept into his game last year were a little frustrating and the diving/complaining immaturity factor needs to go, but he's a pretty damn complete player. He plays top minutes even strength, PK and PP, is a decent playmaker with a good shot, and even does pretty well on shootouts. It's really is hard to imagine any team that has six guys better than he is. Don't forget that from the All-Star break on in the 2007-08 season, he was third in the league behind only Malkin and Ovechkin in points. He's averaged 0.94 PPG over the past two season; not a whole lot of players can say that, especially at 26 years old. Size (height, really) and maturity are his biggest knocks. One, he can do something about.
korab rules Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 :blink: Roy is defensively responsible and one of our best PKers. He's also #2 on the team in faceoffs, averaging over 50% against mostly top-two centers. I'll give you that the "I can dipsy-doodle a one-on-four" moments that crept into his game last year were a little frustrating and the diving/complaining immaturity factor needs to go, but he's a pretty damn complete player. He plays top minutes even strength, PK and PP, is a decent playmaker with a good shot, and even does pretty well on shootouts. It's really is hard to imagine any team that has six guys better than he is. Don't forget that from the All-Star break on in the 2007-08 season, he was third in the league behind only Malkin and Ovechkin in points. He's averaged 0.94 PPG over the past two season; not a whole lot of players can say that, especially at 26 years old. Size (height, really) and maturity are his biggest knocks. One, he can do something about. Great explanation. Wish we had two more exactly like him!
SwampD Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 :blink: Roy is defensively responsible and one of our best PKers. He's also #2 on the team in faceoffs, averaging over 50% against mostly top-two centers. I'll give you that the "I can dipsy-doodle a one-on-four" moments that crept into his game last year were a little frustrating and the diving/complaining immaturity factor needs to go, but he's a pretty damn complete player. He plays top minutes even strength, PK and PP, is a decent playmaker with a good shot, and even does pretty well on shootouts. It's really is hard to imagine any team that has six guys better than he is. Don't forget that from the All-Star break on in the 2007-08 season, he was third in the league behind only Malkin and Ovechkin in points. He's averaged 0.94 PPG over the past two season; not a whole lot of players can say that, especially at 26 years old. Size (height, really) and maturity are his biggest knocks. One, he can do something about. yep. every word.
SteamRoller72 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 Maybe I underestimated him a bit, but I'm not sure what you love so much about Roy. He is very talented and for stretches last year he was great, but he is also infuriating. He turns the puck over too much, he has a rep as a diver (it's gotten better I know),is not great in his own end and is not a very good draw man. I hope he has a great year and proves me wrong. What's ironic about this is I am not a huge Roy fan at all. Since the absurb dives have been erased from his game, I have learned to appreciate him more & more. I simply can not overlook the fact that he's nearly a point per game player. His turnovers drive me insane, but I sure do love his skating & playmaking abilities. 07-08 32G 49A 08-09 28G 42A and Vanek missed 9 games.
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 If memory serves me correct, didn't Roy play through a reoccurring groin issue last year? I've always hated when players try to play through groin injuries because they lose a step, and extend the recovery process.
Barnabov Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 http://www.wgr550.com/Sabres-Roster-Taking-Shape/5326455 So per this synopsis of Ruff's interview, there are 26 players left with need to cut to 23 by tomorrow. With 1 definite (Mair) and 2 potential Injured Reserve placements (Lydman & Stafford) that would mean no cuts right? Probably Weber from consensus on the board & his lack of mention by Ruff in the article would be the first to go if they do need to send someone down. Anyone know if Weber is subject to clearing waivers? Without Weber, that would leave Myers, Gerbe & Kennedy up for the time being pending guys coming off the IR. At that point, I'd guess Gerbe would go down before Kennedy and when Mair comes back, Kennedy would be sent down unless he's played too well to demote. Myers will probably get the 9 games before going back to Juniors & having Lydman injured makes it easier to fit him in for that.
Calvin Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 :blink: Roy is defensively responsible and one of our best PKers. He's also #2 on the team in faceoffs, averaging over 50% against mostly top-two centers. I'll give you that the "I can dipsy-doodle a one-on-four" moments that crept into his game last year were a little frustrating and the diving/complaining immaturity factor needs to go, but he's a pretty damn complete player. He plays top minutes even strength, PK and PP, is a decent playmaker with a good shot, and even does pretty well on shootouts. It's really is hard to imagine any team that has six guys better than he is. Don't forget that from the All-Star break on in the 2007-08 season, he was third in the league behind only Malkin and Ovechkin in points. He's averaged 0.94 PPG over the past two season; not a whole lot of players can say that, especially at 26 years old. Size (height, really) and maturity are his biggest knocks. One, he can do something about. agreed!
shrader Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 http://www.wgr550.com/Sabres-Roster-Taking-Shape/5326455 So per this synopsis of Ruff's interview, there are 26 players left with need to cut to 23 by tomorrow. With 1 definite (Mair) and 2 potential Injured Reserve placements (Lydman & Stafford) that would mean no cuts right? Probably Weber from consensus on the board & his lack of mention by Ruff in the article would be the first to go if they do need to send someone down. Anyone know if Weber is subject to clearing waivers? Without Weber, that would leave Myers, Gerbe & Kennedy up for the time being pending guys coming off the IR. At that point, I'd guess Gerbe would go down before Kennedy and when Mair comes back, Kennedy would be sent down unless he's played too well to demote. Myers will probably get the 9 games before going back to Juniors & having Lydman injured makes it easier to fit him in for that. Just off the top of my head: Vanek Roy (Stafford) Pominville Connolly MacArthur Grier Gaustad Hecht Kaleta Paille Ellis Kennedy Gerbe Mancari (Mair) Rivet Butler (Lydman) Montador Sekera Tallinder Paetsch Weber Myers Miller Lalime That's 27 right there. If you assume the parentheses players are IR, that's still 24 players, one over the limit. Unless I missed another demotion, I'd assume that people are forgetting that Mancari signed.
Patty16 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 I just hope Derek Roy had nothing to do with this. well played sir, well played indeed.
Patty16 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 Just off the top of my head: Vanek Roy (Stafford) Pominville Connolly MacArthur Grier Gaustad Hecht Kaleta Paille Ellis Kennedy Gerbe Mancari (Mair) Rivet Butler (Lydman) Montador Sekera Tallinder Paetsch Weber Myers Miller Lalime That's 27 right there. If you assume the parentheses players are IR, that's still 24 players, one over the limit. Unless I missed another demotion, I'd assume that people are forgetting that Mancari signed. I think he was already sent down....must clear waivers...
X. Benedict Posted September 29, 2009 Report Posted September 29, 2009 What I think it will be Vanek- Roy - Stafford MacArthur - Connolly - Pomminstein Hecht -Goose - Grier Paille - Ellis - Kaleta Tallider - Lydman Butler - Rivet Sekera - Montador (Paestch - Mair - MacCormick) What it ought to be: Vanek- Roy - Stafford MacArthur - Connolly - Pomminstein Hecht -Goose - Grier Ellis- Kennedy - Kaleta Lydman-Rivet Sekera-Montador Butler-Myers (Mair-McCormick-)
tom webster Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 I think he was already sent down....must clear waivers... He was and apparently did clear waivers.
Barnabov Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 What I think it will be Vanek- Roy - Stafford MacArthur - Connolly - Pomminstein Hecht -Goose - Grier Paille - Ellis - Kaleta Tallider - Lydman Butler - Rivet Sekera - Montador (Paestch - Mair - MacCormick) What it ought to be: Vanek- Roy - Stafford MacArthur - Connolly - Pomminstein Hecht -Goose - Grier Ellis- Kennedy - Kaleta Lydman-Rivet Sekera-Montador Butler-Myers (Mair-McCormick-) McCormick was sent down yesterday/today. That leaves Kaleta & Ellis as locks for the 4th line with big question of whether Paille or Kennedy will play LW. Gerbe seems like he'll stay up only if injuries open up a spot.
deluca67 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 It's an interesting question -- is the jack-of-all-trades 4th line better or worse for a team than a pure banger 4th line? I guess I think it's better. Remember that most of the time the 4th line is going to be matched up against the opposing 4th (or 3rd) line. If you're an opposing coach, would you rather have your 4th line going against Kennedy-Kaleta-Ellis or Paille-Kaleta-Ellis? Also, in the last couple of years, when the Sabres haven't had any talent to speak of on the 4th line, that line has often gotten 3-5 minutes per game. I can see Kennedy-Kaleta-Ellis getting 8-10 minutes and keeping the other 3 lines rested (and hungry). One more thing on this: injuries are inevitable, and as XB noted, Kennedy can (hopefully) slide in to fill any hole. He'll be more ready to do so if he's practicing and playing with the big club. My bottom line is that Mac seems like he's played well enough to earn a spot on the top 2 lines, to start with anyway, while Paille seems headed for another year of just taking up space. The Goose-Grier-Hecht line has looked pretty good, so that leaves the 4th line. It's not perfect, but I still want Kennedy in the lineup instead of Paille. Maybe Darcy will solve this problem by dumping Paille and Tallinder for draft picks. Paille and MacArthur are the same player. To say one is ready for the second line and the other should be tossed away in a Tallinder trade is, to say the least, interesting. All things even with both playing well Paille's physical play makes him more valuable to the Sabres than MacArthur who just doesn't do anything especially well. I can at least remember Paille playing in games. I'm not joking when I say I forget MacArthur is a Sabre. There is nothing about his game that jumps out at you. And here he is getting the nod on the second line. I wouldn't expect Mac's stint on the second line to last more than a handful of games.
billsrcursed Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 Paille and MacArthur are the same player. To say one is ready for the second line and the other should be tossed away in a Tallinder trade is, to say the least, interesting. All things even with both playing well Paille's physical play makes him more valuable to the Sabres than MacArthur who just doesn't do anything especially well. I can at least remember Paille playing in games. I'm not joking when I say I forget MacArthur is a Sabre. There is nothing about his game that jumps out at you. And here he is getting the nod on the second line. I wouldn't expect Mac's stint on the second line to last more than a handful of games. The glaring difference for me, and I'm no one special at all, is effort. Paille SHOULD be the better player, and probably could be. Mac has put forth more effort, and while I agree that he certainly is not a 2nd line player, he deserves it more than Paille right now. In terms of effort, it appears as though Mac has more upside than Paille, which is shameful on Danny's part.
... Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 Paille and MacArthur are the same player. To say one is ready for the second line and the other should be tossed away in a Tallinder trade is, to say the least, interesting. All things even with both playing well Paille's physical play makes him more valuable to the Sabres than MacArthur who just doesn't do anything especially well. I can at least remember Paille playing in games. I'm not joking when I say I forget MacArthur is a Sabre. There is nothing about his game that jumps out at you. And here he is getting the nod on the second line. I wouldn't expect Mac's stint on the second line to last more than a handful of games. I wouldn't call them the same player. Paille HAD a lot more upside than The General, as you noted, but both disappear during games. When Paille turns it on, his game is great to watch. But he hardly ever turns it on. And I can tell the difference because when he does, it's like "holy crap, Paille looks good!" How often does anyone say that, though? With regards to The General - I hope you're right about his second line spot not lasting long. That would mean someone has stepped up like Hecht or maybe Gerbe. Otherwise, the Sabres have NO ONE to fill that slot unless you put Kennedy on the wing.
wjag Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 McCormick was sent down yesterday/today. That leaves Kaleta & Ellis as locks for the 4th line with big question of whether Paille or Kennedy will play LW. Gerbe seems like he'll stay up only if injuries open up a spot. With McCormick heading to the minors, that would seem good for Kennedy and his chances. Gerbe better take a running start at Connolly if he wants to stay up.
end the curse Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 With McCormick heading to the minors, that would seem good for Kennedy and his chances. Gerbe better take a running start at Connolly if he wants to stay up. If it's Kennedy, he'll center and Ellis plays the wing. If it's Paille, Ellis will go at center.
carpandean Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 With McCormick heading to the minors, that would seem good for Kennedy and his chances. Gerbe better take a running start at Connolly if he wants to stay up. Actually, running Connolly would be really good for Kennedy as I imagine that he is #3 in the scoring-line center depth chart right now: Vanek-Roy-Stafford MacArthur-Kennedy-Pommer Hecht-Gaustad-Grier Paille-Ellis-Kaleta Paetsch would provide some depth at forward until Mair returned, but I suppose that Gerbe could unseat MacArthur (sending him to the pressbox or the the fourth line in Paille's spot.)
nfreeman Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 Paille and MacArthur are the same player. To say one is ready for the second line and the other should be tossed away in a Tallinder trade is, to say the least, interesting. All things even with both playing well Paille's physical play makes him more valuable to the Sabres than MacArthur who just doesn't do anything especially well. I can at least remember Paille playing in games. I'm not joking when I say I forget MacArthur is a Sabre. There is nothing about his game that jumps out at you. And here he is getting the nod on the second line. I wouldn't expect Mac's stint on the second line to last more than a handful of games. I don't disagree that both had unremarkable years last year. I think the key difference is that last year was Paille's 2nd full year with the Sabres, and he took a step back, while it was Mac's 1st full year with the Sabres, and he showed potential with 17 goals (kinda like Paille did in his 1st full year). Mac seems to have had a pretty good preseason, with a good nose for the net and earning a spot on TC's line, while Lindy described Paille's preseason as "nondescript." Eeeesh. I can't say I'd be surprised if you are right that Mac's stint on a top 2 line is short, but OTOH it's quite possible he improves (he's only 24) and takes advantage of the opportunity of playing with 2 talented offensive playmakers in Pommer and TC. I think the chances of Paille stepping up are lower.
shrader Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 The glaring difference for me, and I'm no one special at all, is effort. Paille SHOULD be the better player, and probably could be. Mac has put forth more effort, and while I agree that he certainly is not a 2nd line player, he deserves it more than Paille right now. In terms of effort, it appears as though Mac has more upside than Paille, which is shameful on Danny's part. I'm not so sure where this idea that Paille had more potential comes from. Paille went 20th overall in 2002 while MacArthur went 74th overall in the much deeper 2003 draft. Both picks fall into the crapshoot range at that point. MacArthur put up better numbers (granted, it may have been in a weaker league) during his junior career. They also had different styles, projecting to different roles, right from the beginning, so I'm not so sure that a direct comparison ever made much sense.
deluca67 Posted September 30, 2009 Report Posted September 30, 2009 I don't disagree that both had unremarkable years last year. I think the key difference is that last year was Paille's 2nd full year with the Sabres, and he took a step back, while it was Mac's 1st full year with the Sabres, and he showed potential with 17 goals (kinda like Paille did in his 1st full year). Mac seems to have had a pretty good preseason, with a good nose for the net and earning a spot on TC's line, while Lindy described Paille's preseason as "nondescript." Eeeesh. I can't say I'd be surprised if you are right that Mac's stint on a top 2 line is short, but OTOH it's quite possible he improves (he's only 24) and takes advantage of the opportunity of playing with 2 talented offensive playmakers in Pommer and TC. I think the chances of Paille stepping up are lower. If you had to define MacArthur as a player how would you? If I were to list every Sabre as either a scorer, play maker, grinder or defensive minded I wouldn't have MacArthur listed anywhere.
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