another major trade

[deluca67]

There isn't a (statistically) significant difference in their performance with and without him in the lineup. In fact, their regulation win %'s are identical. The only difference is that a couple of OT/SOs went the other way. How much do think leadership matters in a SO? Without looking at the breakdown of opponents, other players out of the lineup, etc., in games with/without him, it's hard to even begin to say anything about the relative performance.

Somewhere in the archives is a post I did about Andrew Peters and the how the Sabres winning percentage went up dramatically when he was in the lineup. On the other hand the winning percentage went up when Briere was out of the lineup.

[shrader]

I think you may be smoking a bit too much of the KK6666.

 

I was wondering when someone would say it.

[Two or less]

Moore is a better overall player than Gaustad.

 

Not really. The Dominic Moore of most of last season is a good player. Problem is, you can't judge a player by what he's done for you in a short period of time. Dominic Moore was a bum with the NYR and then went to Minnesota, played in a very defensive hockey style, in a trap, which should have suited him very well due to his decent defensive game and speed but he failed there too. He was a waiver pick up by Toronto and due to them having a very poor roster, he was placed on the 2nd line center last season. When he played in Toronto wide open style, he did play well. But, to say he's better then Gaustad is crazy. Gaustad has been good for years. Sometimes much better then other times. I am not saying he's a savior of this club, but if you want to replace him, sure, it's do-able, but unless we have someone to replace him, then it's a non-issue. He will fight. He will hit. He fights for the puck and he goes in front of the net. He plays the PK and he wins faceoffs. Tons of them.

 

You don't seem to care about grit. You don't seem to care about faceoffs. And you don't seem to care about leadership. So it's no wonder why you don't care much for Gaustad.

[Guru]

There isn't a (statistically) significant difference in their performance with and without him in the lineup. In fact, their regulation win %'s are identical. The only difference is that a couple of OT/SOs went the other way. How much do think leadership matters in a SO? Without looking at the breakdown of opponents, other players out of the lineup, etc., in games with/without him, it's hard to even begin to say anything about the relative performance.

So wait a minute here, fans want to give credit to Gaustad by saying he helps the team win with leadership.

 

But now I am to accept that he DOESN'T effect overtime play.

 

So which is it?

Does he have this phantom leadership effect on the team or doesn't he?

 

It's sort of biased isn't?

He plays a big part in wins because of his supposed leadership.

But not when it comes to losses.

So when he is vocal in the locker room it only works for regulation play?

LOL

 

I'm perfectly ok with not including him in OT losses, be lets also get real and just look at what he does on the ice instead of dreaming up all

these non-quantifiable leadership contributions he supposedly makes.

 

Instead lets just stick to what he does on the ice...you know like in...hockey.

Wouldn't that be a novel idea?

Just looking at what he does as a hockey player instead of attributing all this other stuff to him.

 

Why is it that fans do this for this one player?

"Oh he doesn't bring much of anything skill wise BUT...blah blah blah."

 

If fans want to take that approach we could do that for any player on the roster.

[Guru]

Not really. The Dominic Moore of most of last season is a good player. Problem is, you can't judge a player by what he's done for you in a short period of time. Dominic Moore was a bum with the NYR and then went to Minnesota, played in a very defensive hockey style, in a trap, which should have suited him very well due to his decent defensive game and speed but he failed there too. He was a waiver pick up by Toronto and due to them having a very poor roster, he was placed on the 2nd line center last season. When he played in Toronto wide open style, he did play well. But, to say he's better then Gaustad is crazy. Gaustad has been good for years. Sometimes much better then other times. I am not saying he's a savior of this club, but if you want to replace him, sure, it's do-able, but unless we have someone to replace him, then it's a non-issue. He will fight. He will hit. He fights for the puck and he goes in front of the net. He plays the PK and he wins faceoffs. Tons of them.

 

You don't seem to care about grit. You don't seem to care about faceoffs. And you don't seem to care about leadership. So it's no wonder why you don't care much for Gaustad.

I'm not making Moore out to be a great player by any means.

In fact I didn't like the idea of burning a 2nd rounder to rent him.

All I said was that he is a better center than Gaustad.

And that isn't saying a whole lot because I don't think Gaustad is a center at all, he's a 4th line winger as far as I'm concerned.

[korab rules]

I was wondering when someone would say it.

 

 

Pretty obvious, isn't it?

[inkman]

Do you really really really believe that players like Vanek who have been in hockey since they could walk are in need of a low skill player to give them motivation?

He sure needed it from somebody. Grier nearly bitch slapped him in the lockerroom during his last stint here. His contract weighed so heavily on his mind, it crippled his game for half a season. So forgive us if we think mentally fragile Vanek might need some guidance.

[Mbossy]

Mr Guru, when I say 1+1 what does that equal?

[nobody]

Pretty obvious, isn't it?

 

 

None of us have BEEN 2k46; so I don't think we KNOW if it is obvious. :unsure:

[nfreeman]

So wait a minute here, fans want to give credit to Gaustad by saying he helps the team win with leadership.

 

But now I am to accept that he DOESN'T effect overtime play.

 

So which is it?

Does he have this phantom leadership effect on the team or doesn't he?

 

It's sort of biased isn't?

He plays a big part in wins because of his supposed leadership.

But not when it comes to losses.

So when he is vocal in the locker room it only works for regulation play?

LOL

 

I'm perfectly ok with not including him in OT losses, be lets also get real and just look at what he does on the ice instead of dreaming up all

these non-quantifiable leadership contributions he supposedly makes.

 

Instead lets just stick to what he does on the ice...you know like in...hockey.

Wouldn't that be a novel idea?

Just looking at what he does as a hockey player instead of attributing all this other stuff to him.

 

Why is it that fans do this for this one player?

"Oh he doesn't bring much of anything skill wise BUT...blah blah blah."

 

If fans want to take that approach we could do that for any player on the roster.

I'm not sure what you are saying here regarding leadership. Is it:

 

1. the whole idea that some players act as leaders and that this quality makes their teammates play better and thus helps the team is a myth; or

 

2. leadership is a real factor, but Gaustad doesn't have it.

 

If it's #1, I completely disagree, and I think the difference between the 2006-07 and 2007-08 Sabres teams is pretty compelling proof.

 

If it's #2, I sorta agree that there's really no way for fans to know whether Gaustad has it or not. I don't think there's anything wrong, though, in fans observing the way he acts on the ice (physically sticking up for his teammates, taking a pounding in front of the net on the PP, etc.) and the comments his teammates make about him and interpreting those things as leadership.

 

It's debatable, but the debate should be respectful and acknowledge the possibility that the other side is right.

[Guru]

He sure needed it from somebody. Grier nearly bitch slapped him in the lockerroom during his last stint here. His contract weighed so heavily on his mind, it crippled his game for half a season. So forgive us if we think mentally fragile Vanek might need some guidance.

WTF would you know about what happens in the locker room?

 

Grier LOL another one of these myths built up for gullible fans.

[Guru]

I'm not sure what you are saying here regarding leadership. Is it:

 

1. the whole idea that some players act as leaders and that this quality makes their teammates play better and thus helps the team is a myth; or

 

2. leadership is a real factor, but Gaustad doesn't have it.

 

If it's #1, I completely disagree, and I think the difference between the 2006-07 and 2007-08 Sabres teams is pretty compelling proof.

The #1 reason for the huge drop off between the 2006-2007 season and the 2007-2008 season is the loss of skill players not some kind of cheerleading in the locker room or anywhere else.

Most specifically goal scoring.

[inkman]

WTF would you know about what happens in the locker room?

I don't know, maybe because Paul Hamilton reported it. It's not much but it's all we got.

 

Grier LOL another one of these myths built up for gullible fans.

 

I hope you meet us gullible fans out before or after the Caps preseason game. Oh wait, we aren't meeting at chuck e cheese.

[Guru]

Mr Guru, when I say 1+1 what does that equal?

Your IQ?

[Guru]

I don't know, maybe because Paul Hamilton reported it. It's not much but it's all we got.

Paul hamilton?

HAHAHAHAHA

 

 

I might have guessed, a wrg listener turning hockey expert through the wisdom of Paul hamilton, Jeremy white, Howard Simon and the Bulldog.

HAHAHAHAHA

 

What are you going to tell me next, that they should trade Roy because you heard it from the Bulldog on wgr?

 

Oh brother.

[...]

Well, that didn't take long.

[Guru]

He sure needed it from somebody. Grier nearly bitch slapped him in the lockerroom during his last stint here.

Is that the way hamilton said it when he supposedly reported this or is that your vanilla ice version?

 

 

Why is it that your idol grier was never able to 'bitch slap' the sharks past the 1st round?

[Guru]

I hope you meet us gullible fans out before or after the Caps preseason game. Oh wait, we aren't meeting at chuck e cheese.

I'll pass.

I thought by the wannabe rapper bit that I was talking to a 15-17 year old until I looked at your profile.

But I guess you're only as old as you feel act.

[inkman]

 

 

Why is it that you idol grier was never able to 'bitch slap' the sharks past the 1st round?

Because he's not a good player

[Guru]

Because he's not a good player

I thought you said your hero's job was to 'bitch slap' good players?

 

He couldn't get San Jose past the 1st round, but according to you he 'bitch slaps' players like Vanek.

 

This is what these forums have devolved into.

[shrader]

I thought you said your hero's job was to 'bitch slap' good players?

 

He couldn't get San Jose past the 1st round, but according to you he 'bitch slaps' players like Vanek.

 

This is what these forums have devolved into.

 

Shouldn't you be around for more than a day before you talk about what the board has devolved to? Oh wait, you were here last week too.

[Mbossy]

Your IQ?

There you go with the short sentences ending with ? marks again.

[korab rules]

Oh boy, here we go again!

[MattPie]

Even the Devils have Peters at camp because he brings "something unique" - and it sure ain't his wrist shot.

 

Is this the beginning of the 'I can't believe Regier let Peters walk' complaining?

[Wilbur]

I think you may be smoking a bit too much of the KK6666. On just the Sabres website alone there are probably a dozen clips of player interviews where they reference "the locker room" and "leadership". Even the Devils have Peters at camp because he brings "something unique" - and it sure ain't his wrist shot. I mean, it's pretty evident from league-wide pre-season stories and interviews alone that the GMs, the coaches, and the players find value in players who provide some type of leadership.

 

The preceeding was not a defense of Gaustad; just pointing out that leadership guys and role players have significantly more value amongst those IN professional hockey, than those who criticize the people in professional hockey.

 

I honestly would prefer a better third line center, too. Gaustad is like Peters with a little more skill.

I like Andy's wrist shot.

 

rut row