Gerbe: I'm not going down

[KK6666]

Oh Contrair, Nathan wouldn't have to go anywhere. His head is already right where Tyler needs it to be.

sickening

[KK6666]

I expected more from you, of all people.

That was a 37 year old who posted that.

[korab rules]

This team either gets some sort of scoring help or it's chances of making the playoffs are slim.

 

So I hope Gerbe or Kennedy can play at a high enough level to cause the Sabres to rethink having the 3rd and 4th lines populated strictly with grinders.

 

Scoring wasn't the problem last year. What were they, something around 5th in goals for? The problems was we gave up way too many, and at the wrong times. A shut down 3rd line and 4th line of defensively responsible grinders may be part of the solution rather than the problem. That, along with a defense that can actually clear the zone at important moments in the game.

[KK6666]

Scoring wasn't the problem last year.

Acoording to who and by what logic?

 

What were they, something around 5th in goals for?

Ahhhmmm no, nothing like that.

 

A shut down 3rd line and 4th line of defensively responsible grinders may be part of the solution rather than the problem.

Well you're going to need a revamp to get a shutdown line.

There aren't very many players on that 3/4 line crew that I'd match up against the opponent's top lines in a shutdown role.

The only thing our 3/4 liners will have any hope of shutting down is other 3/4 lines

[korab rules]

Acoording to who and by what logic?

 

 

Ahhhmmm no, nothing like that.

 

 

Well you're going to need a revamp to get a shutdown line.

There aren't very many players on that 3/4 line crew that I'd match up against the opponent's top lines in a shutdown role.

The only thing our 3/4 liners will have any hope of shutting down is other 3/4 lines

 

 

According to last year's stats. They were 12th in scoring (lower than I remembered, but certainly not horrible). See the link. http://www.nhl.com/ice/app . The problem is they were 14th in goals against. Also not horrible, but just a little higher and they are in the playoffs. They actually have the makings of a very good shut down line in Grier and Hecht, just need someone to round it out. For me, Goose could center that line and is good enough on draws to make life miserable for the other teams' top lines. He would have to bring his physical game every night of the week to make it work, though.

[nobody]

08-09 they were 12th in GF and 14th in GA.

07-08 they were 4th in GF and 22nd in GA.

06-07 they were 1st in GF and 13th in GA.

05-06 they were 5th in GF and 10th in GA.

 

 

So actually they got that GA back closer to the "good years" but the dropoff in GF really cost them. If you are going to be in the middle of GA/GF you need to be right up by the top in GF/GA.

[korab rules]

08-09 they were 12th in GF and 14th in GA.

07-08 they were 4th in GF and 22nd in GA.

06-07 they were 1st in GF and 13th in GA.

05-06 they were 5th in GF and 10th in GA.

 

 

So actually they got that GA back closer to the "good years" but the dropoff in GF really cost them. If you are going to be in the middle of GA/GF you need to be right up by the top in GF/GA.

 

 

In 05-06 they were a few points away from a president's trophy. In 06-07 they won it. The formula you prescribe would put them back in that lofty air.

 

If they move up just a spot or two in either category from their 08-09 stats, they make the playoffs. Lets get back to walking before we try to run.

[carpandean]

What were they, something around 5th in goals for?

That was 2007-08. Last year, they were around 6th in the EC and 12th in the NHL. Still, not bad, but ...

 

Well you're going to need a revamp to get a shutdown line.

There aren't very many players on that 3/4 line crew that I'd match up against the opponent's top lines in a shutdown role.The only thing our 3/4 liners will have any hope of shutting down is other 3/4 lines

If Hecht finds his form again (i.e., last year was just a fluke and not the start of the decline), Grier doesn't fall off too much and Gaustad continues to progress, they could form a pretty good shut-down line.

 

 

Edit: forgot to hit the Post button, so I'm a little late on the first point.

[nobody]

In 05-06 they were a few points away from a president's trophy. In 06-07 they won it. The formula you prescribe would put them back in that lofty air.

 

If they move up just a spot or two in either category from their 08-09 stats, they make the playoffs. Lets get back to walking before we try to run.

 

07-08 they were 4th in GF and missed the playoffs. I'll stick to the belief this team needs a combination of the two.

[KK6666]

According to last year's stats. They were 12th in scoring (lower than I remembered, but certainly not horrible). See the link. http://www.nhl.com/ice/app .

I don't really need to see the link I knew where they were at scoring wise.

 

The problem is they were 14th in goals against. Also not horrible, but just a little higher and they are in the playoffs.

Yeah umm, just stating that categorically the way you do is strange.

It's almost as if you sort of proclaim it.....

12th in scoring is not a problem but 14th in defense is.

 

Most fans are prone to just sign on to this current rhetoric I don't.

 

How anyone could state that 12th in scoring is fine but 14th in defense is a problem has me scratching my head.

 

They were 12th in scoring and are without kotalik max and spacho.

If they go with the lineup as it is with no help from rookies or free agents it'll

continue to get worse.

 

Just who is it on these 3/4 lines that will replace kotalik's scoring?

Let alone improve this teams scoring beyond what it was last season.

 

 

They actually have the makings of a very good shut down line in Grier and Hecht, just need someone to round it out. For me, Goose could center that line and is good enough on draws to make life miserable for the other teams' top lines. He would have to bring his physical game every night of the week to make it work, though.

So you're willing to take Goose Hecht and Greir and pit them against top lines from around the NHL with the idea that they will shut them down?

Oh and your big ace in the hole is Gaustad's faceoff prowess?

 

Yeah I can see how Goose's faceoff prowess is going to tip the scales alright(sarcasm).

 

His faceoffs which are just over 50% are going to make life miserable for other teams?

Can you explain that for me.

This is faceoff BS that Goose's fans use as a crutch is now reaching the level of absurdity.

What am I saying it reached that level a long time ago.

 

Do you realize that goose wins on average less than one faceoff per game more than he loses?

So how is that <1 faceoff going to make life miserable for anyone let alone top lines?

 

Here's reality:

They aren't going to pit Gaustad up against top lines in a shutdown role.

He is too slow. Period. That alone rules it out.

Second...it's the Goose fans want to claim that he is a shutdown forward to lend credit to him.

But that doesn't make him a shutdown forward.

In 2007/2008 (and prior) Hecht/Pommenvile were used as a combination vs 1/2 lines in a pseudo shutdown role.

In 2007/2008 they experimented with Goose on that line and dropped the experiment, last season you didn't even see them attempt it.

He's no shutdown forward, his defensive skills are nothing special, they're average at best.

 

If the Gaustad/Hecht/Pommenville is a no go what in the world has you and other fans believing in a Hecht/Goose/Greir "shutdown line"?

[wonderbread]

I don't really need to see the link I knew where they were at scoring wise.

 

 

Yeah umm, just stating that categorically the way you do is strange.

It's almost as if you sort of proclaim it.....

12th in scoring is not a problem but 14th in defense is.

 

Most fans are prone to just sign on to this current rhetoric I don't.

 

How anyone could state that 12th in scoring is fine but 14th in defense is a problem has me scratching my head.

 

They were 12th in scoring and are without kotalik max and spacho.

If they go with the lineup as it is with no help from rookies or free agents it'll

continue to get worse.

 

Just who is it on these 3/4 lines that will replace kotalik's scoring?

Let alone improve this teams scoring beyond what it was last season.

 

 

 

So you're willing to take Goose Hecht and Greir and pit them against top lines from around the NHL with the idea that they will shut them down?

Oh and your big ace in the hole is Gaustad's faceoff prowess?

 

Yeah I can see how Goose's faceoff prowess is going to tip the scales alright(sarcasm).

 

His faceoffs which are just over 50% are going to make life miserable for other teams?

Can you explain that for me.

This is faceoff BS that Goose's fans use as a crutch is now reaching the level of absurdity.

What am I saying it reached that level a long time ago.

 

Do you realize that goose wins on average less than one faceoff per game more than he loses?

So how is that <1 faceoff going to make life miserable for anyone let alone top lines?

 

Here's reality:

They aren't going to pit Gaustad up against top lines in a shutdown role.

He is too slow. Period. That alone rules it out.

Second...it's the Goose fans want to claim that he is a shutdown forward to lend credit to him.

But that doesn't make him a shutdown forward.

In 2007/2008 (and prior) Hecht/Pommenvile were used as a combination vs 1/2 lines in a pseudo shutdown role.

In 2007/2008 they experimented with Goose on that line and dropped the experiment, last season you didn't even see them attempt it.

He's no shutdown forward, his defensive skills are nothing special, they're average at best.

 

If the Gaustad/Hecht/Pommenville is a no go what in the world has you and other fans believing in a Hecht/Goose/Greir "shutdown line"?

 

Deluca did you get a new screen name?

[...]

There isn't anyone from Portland who can provide the kind of help the Sabres will need this season with the roster they have. Kennedy and Myers could make the big, team, though. This may also be Enroth's big season if he gets called up for whatever reason, although even after watching him today I'm still less than convinced.

 

What really needs to happen, and I would have to guess this is what the FO is banking on, is that Hecht, JJ Pommers, and Paille find their games. Not to mention Tallinder. The General needs to step up, and if Stafford is signed, then his game needs to go up to the next level. And of course, Timmy needs to play more than three-quarters of the season.

 

That's a tall order, but not impossible.

[korab rules]

I don't really need to see the link I knew where they were at scoring wise.

 

 

Yeah umm, just stating that categorically the way you do is strange.

It's almost as if you sort of proclaim it.....

12th in scoring is not a problem but 14th in defense is.

 

Most fans are prone to just sign on to this current rhetoric I don't.

 

How anyone could state that 12th in scoring is fine but 14th in defense is a problem has me scratching my head.

 

They were 12th in scoring and are without kotalik max and spacho.

If they go with the lineup as it is with no help from rookies or free agents it'll

continue to get worse.

 

Just who is it on these 3/4 lines that will replace kotalik's scoring?

Let alone improve this teams scoring beyond what it was last season.

 

 

 

So you're willing to take Goose Hecht and Greir and pit them against top lines from around the NHL with the idea that they will shut them down?

Oh and your big ace in the hole is Gaustad's faceoff prowess?

 

Yeah I can see how Goose's faceoff prowess is going to tip the scales alright(sarcasm).

 

His faceoffs which are just over 50% are going to make life miserable for other teams?

Can you explain that for me.

This is faceoff BS that Goose's fans use as a crutch is now reaching the level of absurdity.

What am I saying it reached that level a long time ago.

 

Do you realize that goose wins on average less than one faceoff per game more than he loses?

So how is that <1 faceoff going to make life miserable for anyone let alone top lines?

 

Here's reality:

They aren't going to pit Gaustad up against top lines in a shutdown role.

He is too slow. Period. That alone rules it out.

Second...it's the Goose fans want to claim that he is a shutdown forward to lend credit to him.

But that doesn't make him a shutdown forward.

In 2007/2008 (and prior) Hecht/Pommenvile were used as a combination vs 1/2 lines in a pseudo shutdown role.

In 2007/2008 they experimented with Goose on that line and dropped the experiment, last season you didn't even see them attempt it.

He's no shutdown forward, his defensive skills are nothing special, they're average at best.

 

If the Gaustad/Hecht/Pommenville is a no go what in the world has you and other fans believing in a Hecht/Goose/Greir "shutdown line"?

 

 

Heven forbid I provide a link to correct my own mis-statement as to the Sabres goals-for ranking from last year. Sorry my memory of Sabres stats can't match your own encylcopedic knowledge, which is undoubtedly why you failed to correct me with fact. Merely disagreeing with me, and claiming you already knew the answer when I corrected my self was much easier

 

Funny you should accuse me of proclaiming opinion as fact, when that seems to be your mens rea, that and ridiculing anyone who as the audacity to disagree with a "fact" as proclaimed by you.

 

Yeah, it will be really difficult to replace the production of Kotalik and Max. We can leave Spacek out of the equation, since this discussion is about forward lines. Max scored 6/14 for a grand total of 20 points, and Kotalik scored 13/19 for 32 points, and was a -7 in the process. As to your question of who will replace Kotalik's production on the 3rd/4th line, I would submit that you are asking the wrong question. Kotalik played anywhere from the 2nd to the 4th line on any given night, and 8 of his goals came on the power play. The better question is how much more productive would every other player be if given his ice time. MacArthur scored 17/14/31 last year. Paille was 12/15/27. They scored 5 and 0 PP goals respectively. Either is a capable replacement for Ales, and both have more upside to their game.

 

Why not Goose, Hecht and Grier for a shut down line? Apparently at least a couple other posters agree. Anyone else on the roster you claim can do any better? The truth will be shown when they actually take the ice, not when you declare it can't possibly work. Proclaiming an opinion that can't be proven by any extrinsic evidence over and over doesn't make it any more true, it just makes you look like a douche.

 

Gaustad's better than average face off percentage is not my ace in the hole, its just another fact that justifies his consideration for 3rd line center. A fact that makes him more qualified for the position than anyone on the roster not named Roy or Connelly.

 

Pommer and Hecht were used as a PK unit, not a pseudo shut down line.

 

I'm not a Goose "fan". He's a decent role player, but that's about all I will give him. Do I think he could center a shut down line? Maybe. Is he better than every other option currently on the roster for that purpose? If not, tell me who is. His face off percentage last year was 52.7, which was the BEST on the Sabres (other than the rental Moore), and 28th in the entire league, so yeah, I would say that he could make life miserable by winning draws against the top lines of other teams. They can't score if they don't have the puck. Oh, and he's slow because you say he is? Where's the stat for that? He doesn't lose too many races to the puck, and he is quite effective when he uses his size, he just needs to do it consistently. He was also a +4 playing a defensive role. Only time will tell which of us is right.

 

Argue opinions all you want, but drop the condescending attitude. It doesn't give your arguments more weight, it just shows people you are a disagreeable a#$^$#!e.

[korab rules]

07-08 they were 4th in GF and missed the playoffs. I'll stick to the belief this team needs a combination of the two.

 

 

4th in GF but 22nd in goals against, I believe. In 08-09 the GF dropped to 12th, and GA improved to 14th, but the result was the same.

 

There is certainly room for improvement in both categories. Even a little improvement should be enough to get them back in the playoffs.

[KK6666]

Heven forbid I provide a link to correct my own mis-statement as to the Sabres goals-for ranking from last year. Sorry my memory of Sabres stats can't match your own encylcopedic knowledge, which is undoubtedly why you failed to correct me with fact. Merely disagreeing with me, and claiming you already knew the answer when I corrected my self was much easier

 

Funny you should accuse me of proclaiming opinion as fact, when that seems to be your mens rea, that and ridiculing anyone who as the audacity to disagree with a "fact" as proclaimed by you.

Do you need to write a novel?

I never required or asked for an exact stat, I simply made the point that I don't need the stat because I know where the Sabres stand talent wise, which goes beyond your stat.

But you made your own strange assumption on the meaning of my comment.

If your stat was 100% definitive then by that logic the Buffalo and Toronto offenses are equal.

 

Now do you understand why I really didn't need to review the exact stat?

It is not a completely definitive metric.

My knowledge of where this team is at exceeds any stat you have.

We can support that with stats, but the stats do not tell a complete story.

[KK6666]

Why not Goose, Hecht and Grier for a shut down line? Apparently at least a couple other posters agree.

You and a couple of other posters do not vote Gaustad the ability to shut down top lines.

It doesn't work that way.

What do you think you are some kind of genie, where you and a "couple of other posters" wish it and then Goose turns into a shutdown forward?

 

Anyone else on the roster you claim can do any better?

His ability or inability to shut down top lines has ZERO to do with wether they have anyone else who can do it.

 

Here let me teach you with a hypothetical...

If there are ten people, one of them is Goose, you say Goose can spit quarters and I he say he cannot.

 

Even if you correctly point out that the other nine cannot spit quarters any better guess what that does for Goose's ability to spit quarters?

ZERO he still can't.

 

Do you get the point?

Your question about who can shut down top line any better is irrelevant because it still leaves Goose unable to shut down top lines.

[KK6666]

I'm not a Goose "fan". He's a decent role player, but that's about all I will give him. Do I think he could center a shut down line? Maybe. Is he better than every other option currently on the roster for that purpose? If not, tell me who is. His face off percentage last year was 52.7, which was the BEST on the Sabres (other than the rental Moore), and 28th in the entire league, so yeah, I would say that he could make life miserable by winning draws against the top lines of other teams. They can't score if they don't have the puck.

That one faceoff win above break even per game (actually less) will not prevent them from scoring because they do not have the puck as you say.

 

They can't score if they don't have the puck.

 

It's one lousy faceoff above break even and he isn't winning these faceoffs against top centers.

He plays most against 3/4 lines if you weren't aware.

 

Not to mention that taking draws is the least of what he needs to compete against top line.

 

It certainly isn't going to "make their lives miserable"

That's flat out delusional.

The Sabres fans are going to be miserable if and when Ruff ever deploys this shut down line of yours against top lines in the NHL.

 

 

 

Pommer and Hecht were used as a PK unit, not a pseudo shut down line.

 

My comments regarding Hecht and Pomenville being matched against top line made no reference to the PK.

They were the line Ruff put out even strength vs top lines in 2007/2008.

You have zero clue about this team.

 

Ruff tried Paille Goose and others up on their line.

Goose didn't stick.

But it came as no shock to me, the shock for me was that Ruff saw him in that role to begin with.

He is to slow and too clumsy.

 

 

What someone like you needs to do is review some line shift charts and see who Goose skates against, then maybe you'll have a clue BEFORE you start to blabber this fiction of yours.

[korab rules]

You and a couple of other posters do not vote Gaustad the ability to shut down top lines.

It doesn't work that way.

What do you think you are some kind of genie, where you and a "couple of other posters" wish it and then Goose turns into a shutdown forward?

 

 

His ability or inability to shut down top lines has ZERO to do with wether they have anyone else who can do it.

 

Here let me teach you with a hypothetical...

If there are ten people, one of them is Goose, you say Goose can spit quarters and I he say he cannot.

 

Even if you correctly point out that the other nine cannot spit quarters any better guess what that does for Goose's ability to spit quarters?

ZERO he still can't.

 

Do you get the point?

Your question about who can shut down top line any better is irrelevant because it still leaves Goose unable to shut down top lines.

 

 

Don't like facts, I take it. They do tend to get in the way of a good argument. Much easier to proclaim your own BS as fact instead.

 

 

This is the point in the debate where Ronald Reagan rolled his eyes at Carter and said "there you go again!" And the election was over.

 

You are such a tool. Why don't you go back to the board that kicked you off? This place was much more pleasant before you made 50 some posts in less than 36 hours.

[KK6666]

Don't like facts, I take it. They do tend to get in the way of a good argument. Much easier to proclaim your own BS as fact instead.

 

 

This is the point in the debate where Ronald Reagan rolled his eyes at Carter and said "there you go again!" And the elction was over.

 

You are such a tool. Why don't you go back to the board that kicked you off? This place was much more pleasant before you made 50 some posts in less than 36 hours.

The only fact that you have brought forth is the fact that you know nothing about NHL hockey.

 

Anyone who blabbers these long winded posts of yours trying to make Gaustad of all players out to be some kind of shutdown forward instantly exposes himself/herself as a know- nothing.

[KK6666]

You are such a tool. Why don't you go back to the board that kicked you off? This place was much more pleasant before you made 50 some posts in less than 36 hours.

Why don't you go back to the rubber room you escaped out of.

[inkman]

I expected more from you, of all people.

French is not my forte.

[inkman]

That was a 37 year old who posted that.

PA expected the sexual innuendo, just not me butchering another language.

[KK6666]

PA expected the sexual innuendo, just not me butchering another language.

You're the only one that controls what you say.

[carpandean]

(PA who ever that is)

Really? I'm not saying that he's famous or anything, but even putting aside the frequency with which he posts, there's only one poster back on that page with a name that has in it (in fact, starts with) "PA". Not too difficult to figure out.

[inkman]

You're the only one that controls what you say.

Sometimes my penis makes me say things I wish I didn't.