Who does Balsillie think he is?

[sabresfan36]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/hockey/nhl/09/02/basillie.games.ap/index.html

 

everybody knows he is doing this in the best interest of himself and ONLY himself.....this has nothing to do with the fans or the game

[SwampD]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/hockey/nhl/09/02/basillie.games.ap/index.html

 

everybody knows he is doing this in the best interest of himself and ONLY himself.....this has nothing to do with the fans or the game

The Coyotes have fans?

[end the curse]

There are a lot of people who would say buying a failed, bankrupt franchise, in a terrible location, for above market value, and relocating it to an area starved for the product and guaranteed to fill every seat in the house, is not exactly an evil plot to destroy civilization.

[carpandean]

Yeah. I don't necessarily like his tactics and he is most certainly driven by his own ego, but that doesn't mean that the best offer isn't his. I have my doubts about how significant the effect of a team in Hamilton would be on the Sabres or the Maple Leafs, and having another team in a real hockey town, especially one within driving distance, doesn't seem all that bad.

[jwcolour]

Do you think that the NHL would be causing such a big stink if he had said he wanted to go to Winnipeg? A large city wanting its team back which has the facilities and isn't "poaching fans" from a nearby team?

[shrader]

Do you think that the NHL would be causing such a big stink if he had said he wanted to go to Winnipeg? A large city wanting its team back which has the facilities and isn't "poaching fans" from a nearby team?

 

It doesn't matter what city he says. He caused too many problems with his attempts to buy Pittsburgh and Nashville. That bridge was burned years ago.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/hockey/nhl/09/02/basillie.games.ap/index.html

 

everybody knows he is doing this in the best interest of himself and ONLY himself.....this has nothing to do with the fans or the game

 

He represents hockey fans far better then Gary Bettman......... :nana:

[end the curse]

If the NHL is specifically unhappy with Hamilton being a destination it certainly has nothing to do with "poaching" fans or being in a market already fully saturated with NHL hockey. It has everything to do with a potential lawsuit by Toronto's ownership that would cause a civil war within the league. Hamilton is clearly a good market, much better than Phoenix, and almost everyone agrees that Southern Ontario could sustain more teams without negatively impacting the viability of the existing teams in WNY and Toronto.

 

It's really about Toronto's desire to monoploize a market, and the league is in dispute with their claim to having the right to veto any franchise expansion or relocation to southern Ontario. If you think the Bettman/Balsillie war is pretty hot, it's a just a little lover's quarrel compared to the nuclear war that would be waged in the courts between the NHL and MLSE over veto rights.

[Sabre Dance]

He represents hockey fans far better then Gary Bettman......... :nana:

 

That's like saying Hugh Hefner represents the Vatican better than Larry Flynt.... :blink:

[spndnchz]

Where's apus? He's got some opinion on this. Lots of verbiage over at TSN.

[Stoner]

That's like saying Hugh Hefner represents the Vatican better than Larry Flynt.... :blink:

 

LOL

[DR HOLLIDAY]

That's like saying Hugh Hefner represents the Vatican better than Larry Flynt.... :blink:

 

I think he would.

[jwcolour]

If the NHL is specifically unhappy with Hamilton being a destination it certainly has nothing to do with "poaching" fans or being in a market already fully saturated with NHL hockey. It has everything to do with a potential lawsuit by Toronto's ownership that would cause a civil war within the league. Hamilton is clearly a good market, much better than Phoenix, and almost everyone agrees that Southern Ontario could sustain more teams without negatively impacting the viability of the existing teams in WNY and Toronto.

 

But wouldn't their lawsuit be caused by the lost revenue of lost fans and TV broadcasts? Nobody really knows what the effect it would have on either team. I feel if his intention was to move it to another viable more deserving and prepared location he'd have less of a stink on his hands (though as someone noted before they are already pissed about him trying to buy other franchises to move them and the way he has gone about business)

[...]

But wouldn't their lawsuit be caused by the lost revenue of lost fans and TV broadcasts? Nobody really knows what the effect it would have on either team. I feel if his intention was to move it to another viable more deserving and prepared location he'd have less of a stink on his hands (though as someone noted before they are already pissed about him trying to buy other franchises to move them and the way he has gone about business)

 

 

Any lawsuit by Toronto, and there WOULD be one, would be pre-emptive and would potentially destabilize the league more than it already is with Phoenix being in Phoenix this season. And if Toronto were to file a suit, Buffalo would follow. You can be sure that despite TV coverage, they have loads of surveys, studies, and receipts that would show they have a "significant" market presence in Hamilton.

 

I agree that if he wanted to move them to Winnipeg this probably would be done by now. However, I think Basille is looking to move the team somewhere he can drive his expensive vehicles to and use as a pawn in his empire - he just doesn't want to own a team; he wants to own a team and make use of his toy. Can't say I blame him, but he's clearly a doosh and went about it all wrong.

[end the curse]

But wouldn't their lawsuit be caused by the lost revenue of lost fans and TV broadcasts?

Actually, not at all. This is an anti-trust case where Toronto (MLSE) would insist they have the exclusive veto rights to a territory, while the NHL contends that territory is the property of the league as a whole, and any relocation/expansion matters are determined by majority vote of the NHL board and not a single team owner.

 

It's a turf war.

[wjag]

I really don't think the NHL can afford to be too picky when it comes to new money. It's not like the NBA or NFL where rich folks will pay any price to gain entrance into these exclusive clubs. NHL clubs come on the market and only a handful of people vie for them. Outside of NY, BOS, DET, and TOR the rest are probably difficult to sustain a profit. Impending labor issues and lack of a real television deal make it seem like a risky business proposition.

 

Putting another team in Ontario makes perfect sense. If NY can support three teams, Ontario can support two.

 

I doubt it draws down Sabres attendance that much, but certainly some. You just know that to recover the steep price of admission, he'll have to price tickets ridiculously high.

 

Another team in the local area would be great for rivalries too.

 

The NHL should be doing whatever it can to strengthen its league and its product. Phoenix and southern hockey don't fit the demographics of a winning consumer base.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

I really don't think the NHL can afford to be too picky when it comes to new money. It's not like the NBA or NFL where rich folks will pay any price to gain entrance into these exclusive clubs. NHL clubs come on the market and only a handful of people vie for them. Outside of NY, BOS, DET, and TOR the rest are probably difficult to sustain a profit. Impending labor issues and lack of a real television deal make it seem like a risky business proposition.

 

Putting another team in Ontario makes perfect sense. If NY can support three teams, Ontario can support two.

 

I doubt it draws down Sabres attendance that much, but certainly some. You just know that to recover the steep price of admission, he'll have to price tickets ridiculously high.

 

Another team in the local area would be great for rivalries too.

The NHL should be doing whatever it can to strengthen its league and its product. Phoenix and southern hockey don't fit the demographics of a winning consumer base.

 

Well said, you can also add, showing respect for a high population area of avid hockey fans and let them have a damn team already.

[tulax]

I really don't think the NHL can afford to be too picky when it comes to new money. It's not like the NBA or NFL where rich folks will pay any price to gain entrance into these exclusive clubs. NHL clubs come on the market and only a handful of people vie for them. Outside of NY, BOS, DET, and TOR the rest are probably difficult to sustain a profit. Impending labor issues and lack of a real television deal make it seem like a risky business proposition.

 

Putting another team in Ontario makes perfect sense. If NY can support three teams, Ontario can support two.

 

I doubt it draws down Sabres attendance that much, but certainly some. You just know that to recover the steep price of admission, he'll have to price tickets ridiculously high.

 

Another team in the local area would be great for rivalries too.

 

The NHL should be doing whatever it can to strengthen its league and its product. Phoenix and southern hockey don't fit the demographics of a winning consumer base.

 

I don't think you can include the NBA among the economy's untouchables. It's gotten so bad for them that Lebron might actually, "gasp," stay in Cleveland.

 

On a side note, does anyone know how the Conferences will work if the Coyotes move to Hamilton? I could see the NHL telling Balsillie that if he wants to move the team they'll have to continue to play in the Western conference.

[apuszczalowski]

Yeah. I don't necessarily like his tactics and he is most certainly driven by his own ego, but that doesn't mean that the best offer isn't his. I have my doubts about how significant the effect of a team in Hamilton would be on the Sabres or the Maple Leafs, and having another team in a real hockey town, especially one within driving distance, doesn't seem all that bad.

Jims offer is $212 million. In his bid, $104 million go to Moyes, the current owner, who is saying he is a creditor to the team cause he "loaned" them over $300 million. (This is the only way for him to get back any money from the sale basically, unless a bid is for more then what the actually creditors are owed) The NHLs bid is for $140 million, Ice Edges is for almost $150 million. Both of those bids have almost nothing going to Moyes. So in comparison, if you take out what Jim is paying Moyes, his bid is only worth $108 million compared to the NHL and Ice Edges bids. The problem is going to be if the court is going to recognise Moyes as an actual creditor.

 

The effect it will have on Buffalo is that it significantly hurts their chance of expanding more into Southern Ontario, a market it has the rights too but has been struggling to expand in because they don't have a TV deal there. If Buffalo wants to grow financially, they need to expand more into Southern Ontario, which will be even tougher if they have another team to compete with and a smaller exclusive market north of the border

[apuszczalowski]

Do you think that the NHL would be causing such a big stink if he had said he wanted to go to Winnipeg? A large city wanting its team back which has the facilities and isn't "poaching fans" from a nearby team?

Bettman has already said that if the team were to move, his first choice would be to put them back in Winnepeg. But Balsille has no interest outside of Hamilton, or maybe Kitchener/Waterloo, which is where the team will eventually end up once he can get an arena there.

 

Its funny to see the Canadian fans falling for Jim because Jim says he is "doing this for Canada". Jim is doing it for Hamilton, he doesn't care about another team in Canada if its not his in Hamilton

[apuszczalowski]

It doesn't matter what city he says. He caused too many problems with his attempts to buy Pittsburgh and Nashville. That bridge was burned years ago.

Add in working out a backdoor deal with Moyes to buy the team through bankruptcy (and give him a big chunk of his losses back). The NHL was taking over control of the team and was supposed to be meeting with Moyes to go over details of his part in the team the day he filed for bankruptcy and Jim made his bid.

[apuszczalowski]

Where's apus? He's got some opinion on this. Lots of verbiage over at TSN.

LOL, I'm here!

 

Yeah, I like to read all the Canadian love for Jim just cause he says he is doing this for CANADA, and because it makes Bettman angry

[apuszczalowski]

I really don't think the NHL can afford to be too picky when it comes to new money. It's not like the NBA or NFL where rich folks will pay any price to gain entrance into these exclusive clubs. NHL clubs come on the market and only a handful of people vie for them. Outside of NY, BOS, DET, and TOR the rest are probably difficult to sustain a profit. Impending labor issues and lack of a real television deal make it seem like a risky business proposition.

 

Putting another team in Ontario makes perfect sense. If NY can support three teams, Ontario can support two.

 

I doubt it draws down Sabres attendance that much, but certainly some. You just know that to recover the steep price of admission, he'll have to price tickets ridiculously high.

 

Another team in the local area would be great for rivalries too.

 

The NHL should be doing whatever it can to strengthen its league and its product. Phoenix and southern hockey don't fit the demographics of a winning consumer base.

Can NY/NJ support 3 teams? The Isles are struggling right now and are quite possibly going to look at relocation soon. You can say that its because they haven't put a good team on the ice in a long time, but then the same can be said for Phoenix.

 

The reason for the southern teams is because the game is trying to expand. They have 2 choices. The can saturate areas where it works, and make money, but at some point they run out of expansion room. The idea is to expand the market accross the entire US and grow the game. Its not impossible to succeed in the south. Dallas and Anaheim prove that. You don't need ice to have hockey fans, Kids in Anaheim just play Ball or Roller hockey if they can't get to an arena to play ice hockey.

 

The support Balsillie is getting is from the Canadian fans cause they feel cheated that they don't have more teams for the country. Canadians are very patriotic, and they feel its their game and that the Americans are stealing it away

[DR HOLLIDAY]

The support Balsillie is getting is from the Canadian fans cause they feel cheated that they don't have more teams for the country. Canadians are very patriotic, and they feel its their game and that the Americans are stealing it away

 

As a proud Canadian I call BullShite on this one, we don't think Americans are stealing anything away. But having NHL teams in cities in the States that could care less about them is what is painful. I would NEVER want a real hockey city to lose their team, wether the team is American or Canadian. Winnipeg should have never lost their team, and at this time having them move back to a hockey hot bed would be a great thing for Canada and the NHL.

[end the curse]

Moyes wisely wanted to sell the team for the best possible deal. Taking it to bankruptcy was the only way he could do it. This is not collusion. Bias makes for some ridiculous arguments...