jlombard1999 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 I seen this on CBS Sports.com http://bleacherreport.com/articles/244026-the-top-15-goalies-in-the-national-hockey-league?ref=featured_slideshows#page/1 So I thopught WOW if our best player and the teams last line of defense is not even the 15 best player at his position. What kind of year are my Sabres going to have this year? When does Ryan Miller make a statement and show or act like the elite goalie he is(IMO)!
Stoner Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 I seen this on CBS Sports.com http://bleacherrepor...ideshows#page/1 So I thopught WOW if our best player and the teams last line of defense is not even the 15 best player at his position. What kind of year are my Sabres going to have this year? When does Ryan Miller make a statement and show or act like the elite goalie he is(IMO)! Ryan's overrated only in Buffalo. The stats back up his ranking. Refreshing to see the truth for once. But it'll hurt among the fan base, that's for sure.
apuszczalowski Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 Looking at that list, its more like the top 15 goalies last season. Miller did not have a great year last season, but really, who on the Sabres did? Miller is not overrated, he's not in the upper elite just yet, but he is one of the top goalies over the last 3-5 years and on a better team and a few extradays rest so he is getting burned out playing alomst 80 games a year, he would be recognised as that
carpandean Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 Ryan's overrated only in Buffalo. The stats back up his ranking. Ryan Miller Career: 146-86-26, 2.65 GAA, 0.910 SV%, 12 SO 2008-09: 34-18-6, 2.53 GAA, 0.918 SV%, 5 SO M.A Fleury Career: 111-85-26, 2.87 GAA, 0.907 SV%, 15 SO 2008-09: 35-18-7, 2.67 GAA, 0.912 SV%, 4 SO Other than the 3 more SO's that MAF had in 2006-07, Miller's number are better in pretty much every way. Now, I'm sure that you'd want to point out that MAF has a Stanley cup, but before you even got that out, I would have asked "... and who do you think has been playing on a better team?"
Stoner Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 Ryan Miller Career: 146-86-26, 2.65 GAA, 0.910 SV%, 12 SO 2008-09: 34-18-6, 2.53 GAA, 0.918 SV%, 5 SO M.A Fleury Career: 111-85-26, 2.87 GAA, 0.907 SV%, 15 SO 2008-09: 35-18-7, 2.67 GAA, 0.912 SV%, 4 SO Other than the 3 more SO's that MAF had in 2006-07, Miller's number are better in pretty much every way. Now, I'm sure that you'd want to point out that MAF has a Stanley cup, but before you even got that out, I would have asked "... and who do you think has been playing on a better team?" If you want to have a conversation with yourself, have at it.
carpandean Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 If you want to have a conversation with yourself, have at it. Just anticipating a response. If that's not what you would have said (is it really not?), then what is?
Eleven Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 I don't think Ryan Miller is a world-beater, and I never have, but I do think he's better than several of the goalies in that slideshow, including both Masons and MA Fleury.
deluca67 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 I seen this on CBS Sports.com http://bleacherreport.com/articles/244026-the-top-15-goalies-in-the-national-hockey-league?ref=featured_slideshows#page/1 So I thopught WOW if our best player and the teams last line of defense is not even the 15 best player at his position. What kind of year are my Sabres going to have this year? When does Ryan Miller make a statement and show or act like the elite goalie he is(IMO)! Did the Sabres trade Vanek?
Two or less Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 While i don't think Miller is the greatest thing since sliced bread, to say he's not even a top 15 goalie is really out there too. Chris Mason? Rinne? Ward? Bulin-Wall? Even Kipper is over rated on their list. Nobody wanted Bulin before last season and he shared #1 duties. One good season on a good team doesn't change the fact he's been pure garbage ever since the lockout. Let's see how he does compared to Miller next season....
tom webster Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 Ryan's overrated only in Buffalo. The stats back up his ranking. Refreshing to see the truth for once. But it'll hurt among the fan base, that's for sure. Come on PA, you know better then putting any stock in this blog. Whether its justified or not, someone as well read as yourself knows that Miller is actually rated higher within league circles then he is around here.
Stoner Posted August 30, 2009 Report Posted August 30, 2009 Come on PA, you know better then putting any stock in this blog. Whether its justified or not, someone as well read as yourself knows that Miller is actually rated higher within league circles then he is around here. I'm not that well read when it comes to the NHL in general. So I really have no idea how Miller is perceived around the league. It's always been my impression that Buffalo fans overrrate him. Hence the shock of a Sabre fan that someone who's not a Sabre fan doesn't rate Miller in the top 15. There must be some great intangible that others see in Miller that I don't. If you landed on this planet and studied Miller's numbers, and the Sabres' success with Miller as a starter (no Cups, no finals, two playoff misses), I don't think you'd put him in any elite category. Bottom half of the league? Maybe a little harsh. Why shouldn't I put stock in the opinions posted on another "blog"?
Stoner Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Just anticipating a response. If that's not what you would have said (is it really not?), then what is? Sometimes I wonder why I'm not involved with someone, then I come to this board and am reminded that I have a bunch of women on here to torment me. carp, you really should never say something like that to another dude. I am laughing so hard.
end the curse Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 IMO Miller was definitely Top 15 last season...Top 10, actually. The year before, no.
Stoner Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 IMO Miller was definitely Top 15 last season...Top 10, actually. The year before, no. Forget the original link. My take on any Top x list is Top x over the span of careers, not a sliver of one or two seasons.
carpandean Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 carp, you really should never say something like that to another dude. Wait, you're a dude?!
SwampD Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 I like Ryan. When I think of things the Sabres need to to do to improve, Ryan isn't even on the radar. No way Brodeur was the best goalie last year. That's a nostalgia pick. MA Fleury was better IMO, at least last year. If Henrik Lundqvist is on that list then Ryan should be as well(I know, I know, an age old arguement). Now, if there was a top 15 coaches and Ruff wasn't on there...
inkman Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 I seen this on CBS Sports.com I stopped reading here. The English language is not your friend.
wjag Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 I stopped reading here. The English language is not your friend. Man dat is hash
shrader Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 I stopped reading here. The English language is not your friend. Shouldn't you have stopped at the 2nd word?
inkman Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Shouldn't you have stopped at the 2nd word? Semantics. :nana:
Stoner Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Semantics. :nana: I bet if the poster had said, "I seen pictures of spndnchz naked," you would have kept reading.
shrader Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 I bet if the poster had said, "I seen pictures of spndnchz naked," you would have kept reading. Why would he bother reading? Who do you think took the pictures?
Stoner Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Why would he bother reading? Who do you think took the pictures? Good point. I wonder if they were self portraits.
Sabre Dance Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 This is a larger question: what criteria do you use for ranking players? By all accounts Gilbert Perrault is one of the best players of all time. Goals, points, Hall of Fame.... BUT, do you rank him above or below Dave Andreychuk who does not have quite the same stats, but has a Stanley Cup on his CV? (Obviously, Dave is no Bert, but you see what I mean?) Also, you can play mediocre on a great team and the stats lose their meaning. A guy like Fleury may have fewer wins than Miller (or whomever), but he wins the big games, holds the other team scoreless when the Penguins are trying to rally from behind, etc., etc., ad infinitum (and ad nauseum). That being said, if it were not for Miller, I think the last two seasons for the Sabres would have been disasters...not that they were any great shakes as it is. That alone should put him in the top half of the goalies in the league.
Eleven Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 This is a larger question: what criteria do you use for ranking players? By all accounts Gilbert Perrault is one of the best players of all time. Goals, points, Hall of Fame.... BUT, do you rank him above or below Dave Andreychuk who does not have quite the same stats, but has a Stanley Cup on his CV? (Obviously, Dave is no Bert, but you see what I mean?) Also, you can play mediocre on a great team and the stats lose their meaning. A guy like Fleury may have fewer wins than Miller (or whomever), but he wins the big games, holds the other team scoreless when the Penguins are trying to rally from behind, etc., etc., ad infinitum (and ad nauseum). That being said, if it were not for Miller, I think the last two seasons for the Sabres would have been disasters...not that they were any great shakes as it is. That alone should put him in the top half of the goalies in the league. It's kind of like a snake biting its tail. On the one hand, I think you have to take the team into consideration. Would Hasek have had fewer shutouts on a less defensive-minded team? Probably. But if the team had any offensive talent, he may have had a Cup or two in Buffalo. And on the other hand, perhaps that team was built to play defensive hockey because of the slinky-for-a-spine in net. Miller held leads, kept the team in the game, and won big games when he had a better team in front of him. And certainly, the list of goalies who have won Stanley Cups, but who are not world-class, is long. (In the last few years, we have Fleury, Osgood, Giguere, Ward, and Khabibulin.) With the exception of Osgood, in all cases, the goalie was hailed as exceptionally excellent, but in hindsight, is that really the case? No; those were just high-quality starters who played well behind very good teams. If not for a few injuries, Miller would be in that group. They're perceived as great because they're good and they've been on great teams that have had success. If I had to pick a top three right now, it would be Brodeur, Lundqvist, and Kiprusoff, in some order, and beyond them, there's a whole pack of very good, but not elite, goaltenders, including Miller. Maybe, just maybe, Tim Thomas is elite, but I want to see one more great season out of him first.
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