Patrick Kane arrested

[...]

Unless we're to posit that the cabby gave himself the facial injury, or was injured beforehand, one of the two raising Kanes caused the injury. I don't see how anything the cabby did can be used as a legal defense. Or are you saying, forget the law, the cabby might have done something to deserve an ass-kicking?

 

 

If you lock someone in your car it's called "unlawful imprisonment" which is a first degree felony. Pretty serious.

[Stoner]

Good call. I agree.

 

Another one.

 

I'll just add this: Kane almost certainly behaved in an unacceptable way, and he is almost certainly going to pay a heavy price. But I'd like to know exactly when the cabbie locked the doors. Under almost any circumstances, his locking them in is an act of aggression. He crossed a line when he did that. Kane and the other meathead crossed a worse one when they hit him, but the cabbie is not blameless.

 

Again, I just don't see what the cabby's behavior, even it turns out to have been a lot worse than we know, has to do with the legal/ethical issues surrounding the subsequent assault. Just what blame are you assigning to this victim? Let's say a pizza shop owner stands in front of his door to block the exit of a customer who hasn't paid for his pie. The customer gets pissed off and swings on the owner. Now, if it's a Little Caesar's joint, I say more power to him. TAKING ONE! On the chin, hopefully. Otherwise, what legal defense does the customer have?

 

Rusty has just given Judge Wapner his pre-trial massage under his robe, and the litigants are on their way into the courtroom...

[Stoner]

If you lock someone in your car it's called "unlawful imprisonment" which is a first degree felony. Pretty serious.

 

Interesting point.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

If you lock someone in your car it's called "unlawful imprisonment" which is a first degree felony. Pretty serious.

 

So what do you call it when the mall security cuffs a person and takes him to the back room because they saw him shoplifting?

 

This is a hired service. Pay is expected.

[nfreeman]

Again, I just don't see what the cabby's behavior, even it turns out to have been a lot worse than we know, has to do with the legal/ethical issues surrounding the subsequent assault. Just what blame are you assigning to this victim? Let's say a pizza shop owner stands in front of his door to block the exit of a customer who hasn't paid for his pie. The customer gets pissed off and swings on the owner. Now, if it's a Little Caesar's joint, I say more power to him. TAKING ONE! On the chin, hopefully. Otherwise, what legal defense does the customer have?

 

So what do you call it when the mall security cuffs a person and takes him to the back room because they saw him shoplifting?

 

This is a hired service. Pay is expected.

Fair enough, IF the cabbie didn't lock the doors until AFTER Kane threatened not to pay. That's why I'd like to know when he locked them. If the cabbie pulled up, Kane paid, the cabbie said he didn't have change, they started arguing, THEN the cabbie locked the doors -- different story.

[darksabre]

So what do you call it when the mall security cuffs a person and takes him to the back room because they saw him shoplifting?

 

This is a hired service. Pay is expected.

 

Because the security guards are providing a service. It is their job to detain thieves until the police come if the decide to involve the law. A cab driver doesn't have the legal power to imprison someone depriving him of payment for a service rendered.

[...]

So what do you call it when the mall security cuffs a person and takes him to the back room because they saw him shoplifting?

 

This is a hired service. Pay is expected.

 

 

Security guards are required to undergo training and SHOULD know the legal parameters within which they work, which amounts to a citizen's arrest. That is "consensual detainment". Last I knew at least. That means you are surrendering to the guard once you go with them. That's quite different than being held against your will, whether you want to pay for a service or not.

[billsrcursed]

So what do you call it when the mall security cuffs a person and takes him to the back room because they saw him shoplifting?

 

This is a hired service. Pay is expected.

 

So Mall security officers have handcuffs now?? Geesh, where the hell have I been?

 

last I checked, you had to WILLINGLY go with them into the back office.

 

And, just to add, since I went through security training, you're taught as a security officer to NEVER perform a citizen's arrest due to liability.

 

I think I might look into this more, just because.... but I'm fairly certain mall security can only watch and "attempt" to uphold the law, but actual LEO's are to be called in when applicable, i.e. handcuffs.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Sounds to me like the cabbie knew what he was getting into in picking up college boys. Maybe he should think of reworking how he picks up fares.

 

Cabbies can't, it is against the law... Well at least in Illinois/Chigao.

[ExiledInIllinois]

It wouldn't. Anything that is coming from the lawyers at this point is agreed upon BS from both parties. The longer this goes the further from the truth the information will be. The Kanes hired their lawyer who contacted the cabbie to advise they will make things right. The cabbie turns around and hires his lawyer so he doesn't get screwed over. In the end all parties will be smiling and saying "what regrettable situation it was", "a simple misunderstanding handled poorly by both parties involved" and the classic "everyone is in agreement to put this behind us."

 

Which is sad and makes me sick. The only good thing is maybe 20 Cent will live to his script and not get in trouble agian. Afterall, the Kanes have been doing this Patrick's whole life to make him a hockey star. He is just dealing with big boy issues now like sex and drinking. As much as anybody wants to believe it was solely grit, determination, and love of the game that propelled him to where he was the fact of the matter is his stardom has been planned and financed since the get go. IMO, this little blip is the cost of doing business.

 

I mean does anybody believe the romance and dream that these people weaved. Again, I really hope that he won't self-destruct like say Todd Marionovich... And rightly so, his father doesn't seem to be at that level of jagg offness.

 

I just wish the truth would come out and the spin to stop weaving... Especially with stuff like this. The cabbie will cave and that is sad for society.

 

You can throw money at a child that WANTS and has the DESIRE and make them a star in this game of hockey! And in this case keep the star shining!

[ExiledInIllinois]

"Reworking how he picks up fares?" I don't know how often you ride cabs, there are not dozens of people on the curb fighting for cabs. The guy has a right to try and earn a living. There is nothing he could have done to have justified being jumped. Being drunk doesn't excuse Kane.

 

A man trying to earn a living versus a couple of drunk 20 year olds, one with a growing reputation of self entitlement? There is no reason to believe that the cabbie would lie.

 

And in Chicago where fares can be cherry picked, law says you can't... No questions asked, the cabbies HAS to take a person anywhere they want. NOt sure what the law is in BFLO? If one does do cherry pick and get blown in... One are out of a license/plaque.

[ExiledInIllinois]

An incident happens and eventually both sides are happy with the outcome. Is that really such a bad thing? (assuming that is what happens)

 

Yes. In this case yes. You shouldn't use money to cover up a felonious act. It is a matter of the state and has strong consequences for the rest of society. In a low profile case I may agree with you... Even then we arepsuhing things!

 

What kind of message do you think this sends?

 

Ever watch the old police series "Naked City"? Ya, it is old and cheesy/naco... But watch this episode... It fits this story and what the Kane family appears to be doing to a tee:

 

"Naked City" One of the Most Important Men in the World (1962)

 

Season 3, Episode 17: One of the Most Important Men in the World

Original Air Date—31 January 1962

A widowed gangster is being challenged for custody of his son by his sister in-law. To show the court that he is a positive influence the gangster needs to convince his son's teacher to change a failing grade to an "A". The teacher is stubborn and the gangster offers the tempting bribe of a chorus girl.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If you lock someone in your car it's called "unlawful imprisonment" which is a first degree felony. Pretty serious.

 

Adn it just goes to show you how society and the system have the cabbies over a barrel. They can't cheery pick fares... And they can't stop a person from robbing them or theft of service... Sad.

 

Didn't the Kanes have a cellphone?

 

The ass kicking is not warranted in this situation. Plain and simple. As a society we are losing all common sense by lumping everthing into generalalites that is suppose to cover every situation with one type of safeguard or law.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Fair enough, IF the cabbie didn't lock the doors until AFTER Kane threatened not to pay. That's why I'd like to know when he locked them. If the cabbie pulled up, Kane paid, the cabbie said he didn't have change, they started arguing, THEN the cabbie locked the doors -- different story.

 

Agree. Yet... They were on Eastwood Place! Read my above post. Unfortunately the law says you can't profile these people (Canisus Students... Or in this case the Kanes who APPEARED TO BE students.

 

Again... We are losing common sense in this country. And yes I DO believe profiling is necessary in some cases like law enforcement. Look at the Cambridge thing... I think the cop did right up until he made the bad judgment call of aresting the person he profiled.

 

Sorry for all the posts... This is just a touchstone topic for me!!! I can't stop talking enough on societal issues like this. :oops:

[billsrcursed]

Agree. Yet... They were on Eastwood Place! Read my above post. Unfortunately the law says you can't profile these people (Canisus Students... Or in this case the Kanes who APPEARED TO BE students.

 

Again... We are losing common sense in this country. And yes I DO believe profiling is necessary in some cases like law enforcement. Look at the Cambridge thing... I think the cop did right up until he made the bad judgment call of aresting the person he profiled.

 

Sorry for all the posts... This is just a touchstone topic for me!!! I can't stop talking enough on societal issues like this. :oops:

 

 

Whatever, post ....

 

j/k!!

[ExiledInIllinois]

Whatever, post ....

 

j/k!!

 

:nana: :nana:

 

I mean really, what message do people like the Kanes, Kennedy's and other influential people really send to society??... 20 cent and his laborer cuz will skate, the cabbie will be okay and some other cabbie will now have to deal with picking up Canisus pukes on Chippewa and some of them will ride and dash (because you can't falsely imprison somebody) and others will just mug the cabbie... In the meantime, let me know of all the crazy taxi, cabbie is an axe murderer stories that happen!

 

:bag:

 

Oh... Forgot to mention... Think the Kanes got to the witnesses? They will be happy too! If the are Canisus students maybe they can get their tuition paid and move off Eastwood.

 

What part did the league play in this? You know the Kanes had to be talking to Chiago and the league with advice!! ??

 

We will never know.

 

 

We ALL knew how this would REALLY end right from the start... Little bit (maybe more than a tad) of a groundswell by the internet and media...

 

<_< <_<

[ExiledInIllinois]

The only thing that is wrong with this attack is that the Kanes should have been beating the cabbie shouting:

 

"What's the Frequency, Kenneth?"

 

You know for spontaneously locking them in the cab and controlling them to pay up first.

 

:nana:

[deluca67]

If you lock someone in your car it's called "unlawful imprisonment" which is a first degree felony. Pretty serious.

So, if I am being robbed I don't have the right to stop them and hold them till the police arrive?

[ExiledInIllinois]

So, if I am being robbed I don't have the right to stop them and hold them till the police arrive?

 

It is screwy DeLuca and a guy like 20 Cent's lawyer (Cambria) is gonna shred everything up and make it look like the beat down was justified... Which it wasn't!

 

We are losing all common sense in this country. There is no reason on the planet why a cabbie can't lock people in a cab and wait for the fare. Now unless they gave him the fare and he THEN the cabbie refused to unlock the doors.

 

Still assault over locking the doors until you pay? :wallbash: The Kanes and Cambria are back peddling too.

 

You know what this is? The cabbie failed to recognize who 20 Cent was and it pissed him off he didn't get "star treatment."

 

I don't care if you are the king of Farrook... You aren't getting out my cab without paying first!

[SwampD]

So, if I am being robbed I don't have the right to stop them and hold them till the police arrive?

Didn't they pay and it was the cabbie who didn't have the change? Sounds to me like HE was the one trying to steal money first.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Didn't they pay and it was the cabbie who didn't have the change? Sounds to me like HE was the one trying to steal money first.

 

Okay... I will play.

 

Back to the 20 cents. WTF... Let it go Pat, you don't roll the guy. And why didn't they leave the money? Why did they take it back? Because it all boils down to that they didn't like being locked in the car and ordered to pay up. Then they got cute with the tip.

 

You don't assault the guy with help from your cuz! You pay up (even if it is 20 cents more) and walk away... Just like the cop in Cambridge should have done.

 

Power trips here fellas.

 

And BTW supposedly the cabbie should have been licensed to only drive a van?

 

If I was the cabbie and now all my past dirt is out (by Cambria) I would hit them with just the assault charge.

 

They still assualted them for no reason. I don't consider being locked in and forced to pay your bill enough justification.

[...]

Okay... I will play.

 

Back to the 20 cents. WTF... Let it go Pat, you don't roll the guy. And why didn't they leave the money? Why did they take it back? Because it all boils down to that they didn't like being locked in the car and ordered to pay up. Then they got cute with the tip.

 

You don't assault the guy with help from your cuz! You pay up (even if it is 20 cents more) and walk away... Just like the cop in Cambridge should have done.

 

Power trips here fellas.

 

And BTW supposedly the cabbie should have been licensed to only drive a van?

 

If I was the cabbie and now all my past dirt is out (by Cambria) I would hit them with just the assault charge.

 

They still assualted them for no reason. I don't consider being locked in and forced to pay your bill enough justification.

 

 

Dude, how about laying off the "Reply" button for a minute. Clearly you are biased towards protecting the poor, humble cab driver REGARDLESS (ink) of the facts - which you'll never know what the real facts are.

 

So, poor, old people are always the innocent ones, and never take advantage of anything, never provoke others, and deserve your unconditional sympathies. We get it.

[spndnchz]

Dude, how about laying off the "Reply" button for a minute. Clearly you are biased towards protecting the poor, humble cab driver REGARDLESS (ink) of the facts - which you'll never know what the real facts are.

 

So, poor, old people are always the innocent ones, and never take advantage of anything, never provoke others, and deserve your unconditional sympathies. We get it.

Like the old guy that shot the 15 yr old dead for walking on his lawn. (just committed suicide in jail)

 

And now back to Mr Can

[That Aud Smell]

Anything that is coming from the lawyers at this point is agreed upon BS from both parties.

ding ding ding!

 

cambria called his old pal andy lotempio and made clear that if there was going to be a prompt and favorable cash settlement, that the driver would have to get right out front with the name-clearing for paddy "you don't know who you're f'ing with" kane.

 

Witness testimony is generally worthless.

:unsure:

 

(to my experience, it's actually quite valuable.)

 

 

But I'd like to know exactly when the cabbie locked the doors. Under almost any circumstances, his locking them in is an act of aggression. He crossed a line when he did that.

If you lock someone in your car it's called "unlawful imprisonment" which is a first degree felony. Pretty serious.

this "imprisonment" stuff is baloney. when i was an undergrad in boston (many years ago), our various foreign-born cab drivers (haitians, dominicans, pakistanis, for the most part) would routinely lock all doors when the fare started; those drivers would routinely (but not always) ask in broken english words to the effect of "please pay while you're still in the car"; and in those instances, the locks were for the most part released only once the cash was settled up. it never struck me as out of line for those cabbies to take that action to ensure that they didn't get ditched on a fare.

 

there are a variety of factual circumstances that can be made to fit the definition of a crime, but just don't pass the smell test. like this morning, on my way into work, this lady was in a rush at the commuter station and forcibly placed her hands upon my back and shoulder for a second as she tried to push past me and catch her train, which actions she took without my consent. i should bring her up on a battery complaint. or how about that time i was holding a helium balloon, and my brother smacked it out of the air, thereby popping it? the law construes that as a form of assault (for, you see, i was holding the balloon when it was violently struck).

[...]

Nothing like using anecdote to determine fact.