SDS Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 OK, I'm paying a guy to slug through converting our current skin to the upgraded bard. It's been a little bumpier than I would have liked, but whatever. Right now there is a point of contention and I would like your opinions... He gave me a quote on the skin conversion and I accepted. I placed a deposit. Most of the work is done and he told me what I owe. Included in this is a $15 charge to remove the link "Skin by Steve" - that links back to his site. I told him no way am I giving him full credit and a link in perpetuity for a skin that I designed (based upon the original IPB skin) and will further change in the future. I said I am payiong him for a conversion service and nothing more, but I would give him a shout out after the conversion took place. His reply was to change the wording to "Skin Coded by Steve"... which still misses much of my point. He wants $15 for the removal, so it isn't much, but it is the principle... The charge was never agreed to up front and the fact that he would even think that he deserves a full time link for a few hours of behind the scenes work blows my mind. What says the benevolent community of SabreSpace?
Spudz Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 First off did this get included in the original quote you put a deposit down on? If it is then I think you are somewhat bound to the terms. You certainly don't have to link to his site, but paying the $15 might be necessary. Otherwise this guy is trying to get business by telling people he designed it, so his uncreative self and mooch your design. Maybe his link should say "skin removal by Steve" but taking claim to a software design or a UI element is digital plagiarism. If he had any input in the design you might consider co-designed, but otherwise tell him to go suck a fatty.
darksabre Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 so the $15 fee was added after you already paid him? and there was no mention of having to comply with the additional fee in the original contract? If so, I'd tell him to go screw. Can't you just remove the linkback yourself?
SDS Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Posted July 30, 2009 Will it take work away from you? No, not at all. But it is a benefit that is reserved for people who design a complete skin, which is much involved. It's like the guy who fixes the skate sharpening machine demanding his name be placed on the Stanley Cup...
SDS Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Posted July 30, 2009 so the $15 fee was added after you already paid him? and there was no mention of having to comply with the additional fee in the original contract? If so, I'd tell him to go screw. Can't you just remove the linkback yourself? Correct. and I can remove it after the fact, but I just wanted to be upfront with him that the link was a non-starter, even with the changed verbiage to "coded by Steve". I don't think a conversion from one version to another warrants that kind of recognition.
X. Benedict Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 He wants $15 for the removal, so it isn't much, but it is the principle... The charge was never agreed to up front and the fact that he would even think that he deserves a full time link for a few hours of behind the scenes work blows my mind. What says the benevolent community of SabreSpace? I'd let him know the $15 irks you on principle - and that referrals must not be a very important part of his business.
R_Dudley Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 I'd let him know the $15 irks you on principle - and that referrals must not be a very important part of his business. Double down that business point above as well as, Not part of the agreement and defitely not desired. It sounds like your agreement provides the source code so you are entitled to make any changes you desire... I would just tell him I'll go ahead and pull it myself and do not use you as a reference...
SDS Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Posted July 30, 2009 Ok, I told him the link irked me and it was more recognition than the work justified. So, I gave him the option of sending me the skin, with the balance due - no link. Or for the extra $15 - make a series of minor changes (mainly in button colors, etc...) that I was tempted to do myself just so not to nitpick every pixel.
LabattBlue Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 What says the benevolent community of SabreSpace? $15 to remove "Scammed by Steve". :thumbdown:
Mbossy Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 Reminds me of the car dealers. Maybe this should be in the complaint section too. Why, when I've paid over 20 grand or even a few thousand for a car, do I have to go around town with your name on the ass-end of my car? The last car I bought I told them I didn't want their name on it and they said they could do nothing about it. I told them they can keep the car. They take the name off. So, you outright lied to me in the first place? Why would I, like SDS, want someone else name on something I own?
North Buffalo Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 so the $15 fee was added after you already paid him? and there was no mention of having to comply with the additional fee in the original contract? If so, I'd tell him to go screw. Can't you just remove the linkback yourself? That is what I was thinking. Depending how embeded it is, it shouldn't be hard to remove. If you have any kind of websoftware, you can just do a search and remove deal... Not hard
North Buffalo Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 Correct. and I can remove it after the fact, but I just wanted to be upfront with him that the link was a non-starter, even with the changed verbiage to "coded by Steve". I don't think a conversion from one version to another warrants that kind of recognition. Depends, did he do a good job? If you keep the link will he give a discount on any maintenance... I think he went about it the wrong way so my first gut reaction is screw him. But if he is remorseful, maybe do the modification. Speaking of which I need to change some photos on my photography website... Thanks for the reminder.
shrader Posted July 30, 2009 Report Posted July 30, 2009 Why, when I've paid over 20 grand or even a few thousand for a car, do I have to go around town with your name on the ass-end of my car? The last car I bought I told them I didn't want their name on it and they said they could do nothing about it. I told them they can keep the car. They take the name off. So, you outright lied to me in the first place? I may have to start calling you mom from now on. My mom has always refused to let the dealers put their names no the car.
... Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 That's crap. I do this stuff for a living, and I would NEVER keep a "Graphics by", "Site by" or "Coded by" link up if the client were opposed to it. You pay for it, your own it, you do what you want with it. Perhaps you know, but in case you don't, YOU own the rights to all creative work that you pay someone to do for you unless otherwise stated in a contract. In other words, since you paid for the work, you own the work by default, not the person doing the work. Honestly, if you're using a person who requires some sort of signed contract for the work, then you have chosen the wrong person. At most you sign a memo of agreement. If you only have a few extra tidbits to do, I'll help you out pro bono. And the link would be cake to remove.
Eleven Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I have a well-recommended contractor regrading my yard and putting in a new patio next month. If he embeds sign that says "Patio by Smith" in the concrete, and wants me to pay him to remove it, he's not getting a dime for any of the work. I don't see a meaningful difference. This is BS.
SDS Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Posted July 31, 2009 I have a well-recommended contractor regrading my yard and putting in a new patio next month. If he embeds sign that says "Patio by Smith" in the concrete, and wants me to pay him to remove it, he's not getting a dime for any of the work. I don't see a meaningful difference. This is BS. It is actually a very common thing to do in the skinning world. Even IPB charges $250 to remove their copyright notice. However, I just didn't think it was justified in this case. I think I gave him a reasonable offer.
Mbossy Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I may have to start calling you mom from now on. My mom has always refused to let the dealers put their names no the car. Think of it though. How many cars have you purchased from a certain dealer just because you saw their name on a license plate or on the back of a car?
SDS Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Posted July 31, 2009 I may have to start calling you mom from now on. My mom has always refused to let the dealers put their names no the car. I did that once. Fox Chevrolet. They put these retarded fox logos on the back of the cars, above and beyond the license plate frame. I told them I wasn't buying it until they took that POS off.
RayFinkle Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Keep your $15 and let him put his link up. With the motley crew you have assembled here, I guarantee you'll get a call from him within 24 hours crying Uncle and requesting that the link be removed.
Eleven Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Keep your $15 and let him put his link up. With the motley crew you have assembled here, I guarantee you'll get a call from him within 24 hours crying Uncle and requesting that the link be removed. Awesome. Even better if SDS takes it a step further and demands $15 to remove it.
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