No wonder no moves are being made...

[deluca67]

And you're definitely some kind of character. I guess U can take that either way. At least that's what shortbus rider said.

You always here interesting stories while riding the bus :rolleyes:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

You don't get it. It's not about actual points. It's about all the points Connolly would have had if healthy. :wallbash:

 

The quote you have to start your post is very telling. This front office inherited LaFontaine so they felt obligation to keep him. Because Connolly was part of one the worse trades this front office has made they feel a certain obligation to keep Connolly in order to save face on that deal. There is no other way to explain why they keep wasting money on this guy.

 

Connolly's dad and Quinn were high school buddies. This is a fact as Quinn bragged about it in a media piece about 5 years ago. I have tried to no avail to get the local media to look into possible corruption, but nobody wants to touch it. The fact that Quinn and Regier let LaFontaine go and used health as an issue, is all the more proof that they are full of BS. One way or the other they are.

 

It doesn't matter. People keep paying to watch the icecapades and get lied to and avoided by the front office. You get what you deserve.

[carpandean]

It is foolish for this franchise to rely on that production for a third straight year. I said this going into last year and it is even truer going into this season. Connolly's value is as a bonus. You build this team as if Connolly will not be healthy and if he is great. Your team is much better. To not have a #1 center other than Connolly by the start of the season is playoff suicide.

As did I and even said something along the same lines in the offseason back in 2007. They went from 3-1/2 scoring-line centers to 1-1/2 and, short of bring in a marginal one in Moore at the deadline, have done nothing to rectify that situation in two, going on three offseasons. Darcy said last year that we are OK down the middle as long as Timmy stays healthy. Well, he didn't, so we weren't. Think about it, in 34 games of each of the last two seasons, they have had either Gaustad or Hecht centering a scoring line. Hecht is (well, was, but we'll see if he returns to form) an OK scoring-line winger as long as he is the third-best player on the line (e.g., Hecht-Briere-Dumont, Hecht-Briere-Pominville, ...) Goose might (big might, never been proven) be an OK scoring-line center in a pinch if he is the third-best player on the line and the other two are very skilled (I had a dream -- literally, I was asleep -- last year in which we were playing a Connolly-Goose-Pominville line, or maybe it was Goose-Connolly-Pominville.) Neither works given our current top six minus Connolly.

[nfreeman]

I don't disagree with criticizing the Sabres for not bringing in another center. Based on TC's injury history and the Sabres' current roster, it was foolish not to do so last year and will be foolish again this year (although less so since he did stay healthy after coming back last year). However, that is entirely different from singling out Connolly as the biggest problem on the team, saying he disappears down the stretch, etc. He was the best player on the team in the 2nd half of the season last year. He didn't come close to disappearing down the stretch. Stating otherwise is simply more hysterical exaggeration.

 

At $4.5MM, the injury risk is "priced in" to his contract. You might say that you'd prefer not to take that risk at all, and bring in another player for the $4.5MM, but that doesn't get you a player nearly as good as TC is when healthy. It certainly doesn't get you a #1 center. Still, it's a legitimate position.

 

My main point is simply that when you look at the poor decisions made by this team over the past 3 years, TC's extension is way down on the list.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Saying you have a great center in Tim Connolly when he is healthy is like me saying I have a great wife when she isn't cheating on me.

 

He is a talented stickman.....that is the extent of it. He has no size, he has no heart, he shys away from minimal contact.........he should be playing soccer.

 

At least Roy, as immature as he is himself, gets angry and gritty out there sometimes. If he ever grew up, he would be a very nice guy to have around long term. I would take Vanek in one of his 12 game sleepwalking spells before I would take Connolly. Connolly is the posterchild of a failed team culture..."HOPE!".

 

Let's HOPE everything goes perfect so we can get the 8th seed in the playoffs. If everything doesn't go perfect, we'll use it as an excuse to sucker in gullable followers for another 12 months. Pay no attention to the other 97% of the league that has comparable on-ice problems but seem to do just fine.

 

How many teams went to the playoffs with backup goalies playing more than 30% of the games? Why do we get an excuse?

How many teams lost a top scorer for an extended amount of time? Oh...I don't know, just the Stanley Cup winners....and they were behind the Sabres in the standings when it happened.

 

Each and every offseason with these clowns is like Chineese water torture.

[X. Benedict]

Saying you have a great center in Tim Connolly when he is healthy is like me saying I have a great wife when she isn't cheating on me.

 

He is a talented stickman.....that is the extent of it. He has no size, he has no heart, he shys away from minimal contact.........he should be playing soccer.

 

Gotta disagree..... the guy goes through the center like he has a death wish.

[That Aud Smell]

he shys away from minimal contact

i share the frustration of the team's reliance on connolly as a #1(B) center, but i have never been able to get on board with the argument that connolly's "soft." to be sure, his game is not a physical one, but the fact is that he is frequently injured because he plays a fairly reckless game and very often puts himself in harm's way.

[nfreeman]

Gotta disagree..... the guy goes through the center like he has a death wish.

 

i share the frustration of the team's reliance on connolly as a #1(B) center, but i have never been able to get on board with the argument that connolly's "soft." to be sure, his game is not a physical one, but the fact is that he is frequently injured because he plays a fairly reckless game and very often puts himself in harm's way.

 

Correct on both. But why let the facts get in the way of a good hysterical rant?

[That Aud Smell]

Correct on both. But why let the facts get in the way of a good hysterical rant?

to be fair, i don't take dwight as hysterical, i take him as enraged at the prospect of the team most likely missing the playoffs for 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 (the 2 years through which our "death wish" playmaker is signed (thanks, X.))

 

i'm not the betting type, and i would never bet against a team i cheer for (well, except when the bills are playing guys on my fantasy team, but that's only if the game is out of hand ... well, okay, so this rules applies only to hockey), but if someone gave me a 100-spot and said i had to wager on whether the sabres will make the playoffs next year, i'd bet against it. the chief reason being: i think it was a huge mistake for them to pin their hopes on connolly. i love watching the guy play. i just don't think he will play enough to make the difference we need him to make.

[nfreeman]

to be fair, i don't take dwight as hysterical, i take him as enraged at the prospect of the team most likely missing the playoffs for 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 (the 2 years through which our "death wish" playmaker is signed (thanks, X.))

 

i'm not the betting type, and i would never bet against a team i cheer for (well, except when the bills are playing guys on my fantasy team, but that's only if the game is out of hand ... well, okay, so this rules applies only to hockey), but if someone gave me a 100-spot and said i had to wager on whether the sabres will make the playoffs next year, i'd bet against it. the chief reason being: i think it was a huge mistake for them to pin their hopes on connolly. i love watching the guy play. i just don't think he will play enough to make the difference we need him to make.

Ouch.

 

That is a very fair and trenchant analysis. I guess I'd say that while TC is an important player, the season shouldn't turn on whether he stays healthy. More specifically, the Sabres shouldn't have let themselves get into a position where the season turns on whether he stays healthy. I'm not sure that they are in fact in that position, but if they aren't, they are certainly in that neighborhood.

 

As for hysterical vs. enraged -- I too will be very PO'd if the Sabres sail into the season with the current roster and miss the playoffs again (or for that matter squeak into the #8 spot and get checked out in the 1st round). But OTOH I do think there is something to be said for letting DR execute his plan without interference and see if he can make it work. If it doesn't work this year, he'll be gone and we'll see a new approach.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Correct on both. But why let the facts get in the way of a good hysterical rant?

 

He gets injured because he tries to superstar it. Do you see him come close to forechecking? Do you see him laying out the body in his own zone? I should give him a pass because maybe Lindy tells him not to hit, as that is not an important aspect of the system.

 

If you are an opposing defenseman gaining control of the puck in your own zone and you see Connolly coming, do yourself a favor and hold a snow-cone cup down about knee-high, and you will probably end up with a refreshing treat as Connolly skids to a stop.

[nfreeman]

He gets injured because he tries to superstar it. Do you see him come close to forechecking? Do you see him laying out the body in his own zone? I should give him a pass because maybe Lindy tells him not to hit, as that is not an important aspect of the system.

 

If you are an opposing defenseman gaining control of the puck in your own zone and you see Connolly coming, do yourself a favor and hold a snow-cone cup down about knee-high, and you will probably end up with a refreshing treat as Connolly skids to a stop.

The play he got hurt on I think 2 years ago -- Guerin or somebody really creamed him, breaking his ribs -- occurred while he was forechecking along the boards.

 

As for his own zone -- he doesn't lay out big hits like Scott Stevens, but that's not his job. He's one of the top PK guys, which means he's defensively responsible.

 

At this point in his career, he has substantially more game, and more leadership, than Roy.

 

If you want to say it was a dumb move to extend him because of his injury history (or if you buy into the Quinn conspiracy theories, or whatever) -- fine. That is a very valid point. But pretending he's not a very good player when both the numbers and the coach say otherwise just doesn't hold water.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

The play he got hurt on I think 2 years ago -- Guerin or somebody really creamed him, breaking his ribs -- occurred while he was forechecking along the boards.

 

As for his own zone -- he doesn't lay out big hits like Scott Stevens, but that's not his job. He's one of the top PK guys, which means he's defensively responsible.

 

At this point in his career, he has substantially more game, and more leadership, than Roy.

 

If you want to say it was a dumb move to extend him because of his injury history (or if you buy into the Quinn conspiracy theories, or whatever) -- fine. That is a very valid point. But pretending he's not a very good player when both the numbers and the coach say otherwise just doesn't hold water.

 

Where have I said he wasn't good?

 

I say he is overpaid.

I say his overall game when healthy is not that of a leader.

I say he is fragile.

I say I would rather have Roy or Vanek over him any day

I say wasting resources on him when he has failed to show up year after year when you could take that money to secure other aspects of the team is a mistake.

I say that Quinn was on record saying the team was not willing to take a chance on LaFontaine because it is unsafe to put him on the ice yet he is at the forefront of two pricey contracts to someone with the same condition who just happens to be the son of a good high school friend, as admitted to by Quinn himself before Connolly was ever hurt.

 

Connolly is talented with his stick.

 

That is the extent of his 7 year tenure as a Sabre.

[nfreeman]

Where have I said he wasn't good?

 

I say he is overpaid.

I say his overall game when healthy is not that of a leader.

I say he is fragile.

I say I would rather have Roy or Vanek over him any day

I say wasting resources on him when he has failed to show up year after year when you could take that money to secure other aspects of the team is a mistake.

I say that Quinn was on record saying the team was not willing to take a chance on LaFontaine because it is unsafe to put him on the ice yet he is at the forefront of two pricey contracts to someone with the same condition who just happens to be the son of a good high school friend, as admitted to by Quinn himself before Connolly was ever hurt.

 

Connolly is talented with his stick.

 

That is the extent of his 7 year tenure as a Sabre.

Now we're getting somewhere. Regarding Laffy, his contract was much higher than TC's relative to the rest of the team. TC signed a $3MM per year deal at a time when the Sabres were giving them out like cotton candy. His $4.5MM extension is still below Miller, Vanek and Pommer and in the ballpark with Hecht (yikes). Laffy was the 4th-highest player in the league!

 

Let me ask this: if the hockey gods visited you one night and told you that you could have either TC or Roy healthy and playing at 100% for 82 games next year, which one would you rather have? I know this assumes away the entire problem with TC, but still: which one?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Now we're getting somewhere. Regarding Laffy, his contract was much higher than TC's relative to the rest of the team. TC signed a $3MM per year deal at a time when the Sabres were giving them out like cotton candy. His $4.5MM extension is still below Miller, Vanek and Pommer and in the ballpark with Hecht (yikes). Laffy was the 4th-highest player in the league!

 

Let me ask this: if the hockey gods visited you one night and told you that you could have either TC or Roy healthy and playing at 100% for 82 games next year, which one would you rather have? I know this assumes away the entire problem with TC, but still: which one?

 

Roy....no doubt.

 

Roy has the potential to become a real leader and all-around player. He has needed veteran leadership to set him straight, yet the team has failed to surround him with guys that have been-there done that. Put Roy on Calgary and someone like Iginla could get him to be an all star. There is no accountability on this team and that will limit guys.

 

Connolly in my opinion is a dolt. I think a Shetland Sheepdog has a better chance at an IQ test. His upside is limited to being a talented puckhandler. I doubt if he played 82 games each of the next 5 years he would ever see a letter on his chest (at least on a real team that doesn't rotate 40% of the team as captain over the course of a season).

 

Connolly is a pretty-boy. He makes nifty plays at times and that gets the attention of the junior high kids, and I guess Darcy. There is nothing wrong with having skilled players...but when you keep HOPE as your main reason for signing him the past 5 years....something is wrong. With that mindset, you will sit in front of a slot machine forever because "it just has to hit that jackpot sooner or later". Before you know it you've wasted a decade and $30 million.

[deluca67]

Now we're getting somewhere. Regarding Laffy, his contract was much higher than TC's relative to the rest of the team. TC signed a $3MM per year deal at a time when the Sabres were giving them out like cotton candy. His $4.5MM extension is still below Miller, Vanek and Pommer and in the ballpark with Hecht (yikes). Laffy was the 4th-highest player in the league!

 

Let me ask this: if the hockey gods visited you one night and told you that you could have either TC or Roy healthy and playing at 100% for 82 games next year, which one would you rather have? I know this assumes away the entire problem with TC, but still: which one?

Easily Roy is the choice. When Roy is on his game he is pesky, solid defensively and every bit as talented as TC offensively. It's really not even close. Roy gives this team a reliable #2 center at a great price. If TC was 100% healthy and priced much cheaper he would be a solid #3 center.

[deluca67]

Roy....no doubt.

 

Roy has the potential to become a real leader and all-around player. He has needed veteran leadership to set him straight, yet the team has failed to surround him with guys that have been-there done that. Put Roy on Calgary and someone like Iginla could get him to be an all star. There is no accountability on this team and that will limit guys.

 

Connolly in my opinion is a dolt. I think a Shetland Sheepdog has a better chance at an IQ test. His upside is limited to being a talented puckhandler. I doubt if he played 82 games each of the next 5 years he would ever see a letter on his chest (at least on a real team that doesn't rotate 40% of the team as captain over the course of a season).

Connolly is a pretty-boy. He makes nifty plays at times and that gets the attention of the junior high kids, and I guess Darcy. There is nothing wrong with having skilled players...but when you keep HOPE as your main reason for signing him the past 5 years....something is wrong. With that mindset, you will sit in front of a slot machine forever because "it just has to hit that jackpot sooner or later". Before you know it you've wasted a decade and $30 million.

It is as it was with Max. Fans are fascinated by the flash and dash. The only difference between the two is Max missed games mentally and Connolly missed games physically. Fans, and especially Regier, hold on to "potential" far too long. Sometimes potential is just never fulfilled. I would guess years from now fans will be talking about what might have been in regards to Connolly.

[nfreeman]

Roy....no doubt.

 

Roy has the potential to become a real leader and all-around player. He has needed veteran leadership to set him straight, yet the team has failed to surround him with guys that have been-there done that. Put Roy on Calgary and someone like Iginla could get him to be an all star. There is no accountability on this team and that will limit guys.

 

Connolly in my opinion is a dolt. I think a Shetland Sheepdog has a better chance at an IQ test. His upside is limited to being a talented puckhandler. I doubt if he played 82 games each of the next 5 years he would ever see a letter on his chest (at least on a real team that doesn't rotate 40% of the team as captain over the course of a season).

 

Connolly is a pretty-boy. He makes nifty plays at times and that gets the attention of the junior high kids, and I guess Darcy. There is nothing wrong with having skilled players...but when you keep HOPE as your main reason for signing him the past 5 years....something is wrong. With that mindset, you will sit in front of a slot machine forever because "it just has to hit that jackpot sooner or later". Before you know it you've wasted a decade and $30 million.

I agree with you about Roy's potential and his need in particular for veteran leadership. I think Roy could turn into a really good player, and he is certainly signed to a pretty good contract from the Sabres' perspective. But the question was for 82 games this coming season. I saw nothing in Roy's play last year that suggested any maturity or any reason to think that he will be the player he should be. TC over the 2nd half of the year was much closer to playing to his potential -- which is a form of leadership -- than Roy was.

 

Easily Roy is the choice. When Roy is on his game he is pesky, solid defensively and every bit as talented as TC offensively. It's really not even close. Roy gives this team a reliable #2 center at a great price. If TC was 100% healthy and priced much cheaper he would be a solid #3 center.

Nonsense. Again you devalue what are reasonable arguments at their core with wild exaggeration.

[X. Benedict]

He gets injured because he tries to superstar it. Do you see him come close to forechecking? Do you see him laying out the body in his own zone? I should give him a pass because maybe Lindy tells him not to hit, as that is not an important aspect of the system.

 

If you are an opposing defenseman gaining control of the puck in your own zone and you see Connolly coming, do yourself a favor and hold a snow-cone cup down about knee-high, and you will probably end up with a refreshing treat as Connolly skids to a stop.

 

He'll block shots, dive to clear the zone, and forecheck.

Mostly in the defensive zone he is the person the d-men are digging the puck to along the boards start a counter attack.

 

Anyway....hitting is usually not the best way to hasten a full recovery from broken ribs, but I would say he is probably a better shot blocker than Scott Gomez and a better forechecker than Mark Savard, or whoever is going to be Toronto's #1 center.

 

But I hope you point out any plays this coming year where you think he not leaving it out there.

[X. Benedict]

Easily Roy is the choice. When Roy is on his game he is pesky, solid defensively and every bit as talented as TC offensively. It's really not even close. Roy gives this team a reliable #2 center at a great price. If TC was 100% healthy and priced much cheaper he would be a solid #3 center.

 

Roy makes people back up and is a very good forechecker.

Connolly freezes people right in their skates and is wicked passer.

 

Edge Connolly.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

But I hope you point out any plays this coming year where you think he not leaving it out there.

 

We'll at least I'll only have to watch a total of 22 games he plays in to point them out to you.

 

17 hits by the way.

[X. Benedict]

We'll at least I'll only have to watch a total of 22 games he plays in to point them out to you.

 

17 hits by the way.

 

in 45-50 games....that's probably more than Spezza, who I forgot.

 

For the sake of argument, would you call Spezza soft?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

in 45-50 games....that's probably more than Spezza, who I forgot.

 

For the sake of argument, would you call Spezza soft?

 

Past 4 years:

 

Spezza 342 points

Connolly 143 points

 

To that extent, he is not what I would call flacid

 

Based on that output, Spezza is worth $13.9 million per year in Connolly Dollars.

[wjag]

Too many posts to quote, so I'll pick up on the points made together here..

 

1. The Legend of TC grew during the most unforgettable playoff series between Ottawa and Buffalo. A game where he refused to let the Sabres lose. It is THAT TC that we all pine for.

 

2. Until TC plays at least 80% of the games in a season, comparing him to anyone else is pointless.

 

3. TC does not shy away from contact. He was forechecking, rushing the middle, and blocking shots when he was in there. To say he doesn't do that is revisonist history. Sure he doesn't play like OV, but very few do.

 

4. TC's importance on the PP is overblown IMO. I've made the analogy before that he is more like a point guard than a forward. I wish he would look to shoot more than he does.

 

5. TC needs to grow his hair out. He looks like a cancer patient... Okay that one is mine.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I like the ring of that if I don't say so myself.....Connolly Dollars.

 

Maybe the Sabres can market that. You know.....instead of Sabre Bucks, send out Connolly Dollars to the ticketholders.

 

I can see it already.....10 Connolly Dollars gets you 40% of a warm Labbats