tom webster Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 While there continues to be a lot of conversation about the team standing pat and going into next season with the same roster + Gerbe, Kennedy, Myers and maybe Weber, the reality is that given the comparables that will effect Stafford's, MacArthur's and Sekera's contracts, the team will be forced to move somebody to stay under the cap. There is no way they walk away from MacArthur's award and yet unless they negotiate a below market deal, they can't keep him and Hecht and Stafford.
inkman Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 To the best of my knowledge, they are about $6 mill under the cap. Do you honestly think Stafford, MacArthur, Kaleta, Sekera, and possibly Mancari will total more than $6 million? If so, them walking away from MacArthur and Mancari are about as feasible as Darcy being able to unload Hecht or Tallinder.
Stoner Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 What is the Sabres' budget this year anyway? Or did they figure out they shouldn't be publicizing it? Who sets the budget? Can Darcy go and ask LQ for a few million more? Will John Vogl step up and ask someone these questions instead of writing more Sabres Magazine pieces?
nfreeman Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 What is the Sabres' budget this year anyway? Or did they figure out they shouldn't be publicizing it? Who sets the budget? Can Darcy go and ask LQ for a few million more? Will John Vogl step up and ask someone these questions instead of writing more Sabres Magazine pieces? Darcy stated in one of the interviews that it was about the same as last year -- ie in the $50-$51MM range. I need to look at the payroll numbers (as opposed to cap numbers, because as always actual cash, not cap hit, will be the key factor) and ponder, but on the surface it seems that TW is correct -- and therefore that Sekera or Stafford might have to be dealt. I think they will cost $4.5MM or so between the two of them. I will say that if the Sabres have to unload Sekera or Stafford (like they unloaded Bernier) because they overpaid Hecht and Tallinder, this will be a real black mark against Darcy.
nfreeman Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 OK, so their NHL-level cash payroll number is $48.16MM currently. That covers goalie, 6 defensemen (not Sekera) and 9 forwards (including Ellis). Assume Kaleta is back at $600K and we're at 10 forwards and a total of $48.76MM. If Gerbe and Kennedy both make the team, that's another $1.485MM for a total of 12 forwards and $50.245MM. The problem, of course, is that we have to pay for Sekera and Stafford and possibly MacArthur. As I mentioned above, I think we're looking at $4.5MM or so just for Sekera and Stafford. Even if they walk away from MacArthur, the deals for the other 2 will take them to $54.5MM or so, which they aren't going to do. TW is right -- the economics are going to force the Sabres to either give up on a couple of their young players (which they hate to do, although they did it last year with Bernier) or, preferably, trade one of their overpriced vets. They could solve the problem in one stroke by unloading Tallinder (at $3.25MM), Lydman (at $3.15MM), Hecht (at $3.8MM) or Pommer (at $4.5MM) -- but they couldn't take back any salaried players, only draft picks. Accordingly, if we want to see a good player coming back in any trade, the Sabres are going to need to unload more than one of the expensive vets, or possibly one of them in combination with Stafford or Sekera. This is going to be tricky.
Stoner Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 Darcy stated in one of the interviews that it was about the same as last year -- ie in the $50-$51MM range. I need to look at the payroll numbers (as opposed to cap numbers, because as always actual cash, not cap hit, will be the key factor) and ponder, but on the surface it seems that TW is correct -- and therefore that Sekera or Stafford might have to be dealt. I think they will cost $4.5MM or so between the two of them. I will say that if the Sabres have to unload Sekera or Stafford (like they unloaded Bernier) because they overpaid Hecht and Tallinder, this will be a real black mark against Darcy. Unless both Hecht and Tallinder have career years and lead us to the promised land! (They crush up PA's meds in his applesauce at 1:30.)
Stoner Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 OK, so their NHL-level cash payroll number is $48.16MM currently. That covers goalie, 6 defensemen (not Sekera) and 9 forwards (including Ellis). Assume Kaleta is back at $600K and we're at 10 forwards and a total of $48.76MM. If Gerbe and Kennedy both make the team, that's another $1.485MM for a total of 12 forwards and $50.245MM. The problem, of course, is that we have to pay for Sekera and Stafford and possibly MacArthur. As I mentioned above, I think we're looking at $4.5MM or so just for Sekera and Stafford. Even if they walk away from MacArthur, the deals for the other 2 will take them to $54.5MM or so, which they aren't going to do. TW is right -- the economics are going to force the Sabres to either give up on a couple of their young players (which they hate to do, although they did it last year with Bernier) or, preferably, trade one of their overpriced vets. They could solve the problem in one stroke by unloading Tallinder (at $3.25MM), Lydman (at $3.15MM), Hecht (at $3.8MM) or Pommer (at $4.5MM) -- but they couldn't take back any salaried players, only draft picks. Accordingly, if we want to see a good player coming back in any trade, the Sabres are going to need to unload more than one of the expensive vets, or possibly one of them in combination with Stafford or Sekera. This is going to be tricky. Hence my question. Darcy can't explain all that to LQ and ask for more money?
tom webster Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Posted July 11, 2009 As to the question of MacArthur's arb hearing. His agent has the easiest presentation in the world. Besides being able to point some of the ridiculous contracts given out this year like Mikhail Grabovski's 3 year deal with the Leaf's, all he has to point to are the contracts Buffalo gave to Paul Gaustad and Jochen Hecht. The arbiter's are notorious for making their decisions based almost entirely on number's output and MacArthur can point to both of those contracts and ask for at least $2.5 million with a straight face. With Stafford and Sekera it could get interesting as both may be forced to accept 10% raises unless they can convince some 3rd party to offer them a RFA offer sheet. Pending Hudler's ruling, Sekera may try to cultivate a KHL contract to force Buffalo's hand. Kaletta will probably sign his qualifying offer while Mancari is largely irrelevant.
Stoner Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 Is there a trade market for Vanek? Darcy has said in the current milieu (an nfreeman word if there ever was one), you're likely to see teams trading expensive, long-term contracts tit for tat. If you buy into the "up the middle" theory of building your team (goalie, defense, center), could Vanek for the number-one center we crave make sense?
shrader Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 Is there a trade market for Vanek? Darcy has said in the current milieu (an nfreeman word if there ever was one), you're likely to see teams trading expensive, long-term contracts tit for tat. If you buy into the "up the middle" theory of building your team (goalie, defense, center), could Vanek for the number-one center we crave make sense? There would absolutely be a market for him. The contract isn't really much of problem though. It's 5 more years at $6.4 million each year. I think it would be a terrible move though. Sure, you fill that center need, but then you're left with no one putting the puck in the net.
carpandean Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 Is there a trade market for Vanek? Darcy has said in the current milieu (an nfreeman word if there ever was one), you're likely to see teams trading expensive, long-term contracts tit for tat. If you buy into the "up the middle" theory of building your team (goalie, defense, center), could Vanek for the number-one center we crave make sense? Vanek for Briere? :sick:
X. Benedict Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 As to the question of MacArthur's arb hearing. His agent has the easiest presentation in the world. Besides being able to point some of the ridiculous contracts given out this year like Mikhail Grabovski's 3 year deal with the Leaf's, all he has to point to are the contracts Buffalo gave to Paul Gaustad and Jochen Hecht. The arbiter's are notorious for making their decisions based almost entirely on number's output and MacArthur can point to both of those contracts and ask for at least $2.5 million with a straight face.With Stafford and Sekera it could get interesting as both may be forced to accept 10% raises unless they can convince some 3rd party to offer them a RFA offer sheet. Pending Hudler's ruling, Sekera may try to cultivate a KHL contract to force Buffalo's hand. Kaletta will probably sign his qualifying offer while Mancari is largely irrelevant. It depends on what he is asking for....If MacArthur gets over 2M in arbitration I think they let him walk.
shrader Posted July 11, 2009 Report Posted July 11, 2009 It depends on what he is asking for....If MacArthur gets over 2M in arbitration I think they let him walk. I'm just going to go with a hunch that he'll work out a 3 year deal before the hearing ever happens.
Calvin Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 Vanek for Briere? :sick: that would be a no. seriously, no.
deluca67 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 Is there a trade market for Vanek? Darcy has said in the current milieu (an nfreeman word if there ever was one), you're likely to see teams trading expensive, long-term contracts tit for tat. If you buy into the "up the middle" theory of building your team (goalie, defense, center), could Vanek for the number-one center we crave make sense? I would at this point put Vanek and Roy as the two untouchables on the roster. Vanek is on his way to being a elite forward in the league and Roy is a great value at $4 mil taking into consideration his 70 points a year.
carpandean Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 that would be a no. seriously, no. Thus, the :sick: I was one of the people who was fine with letting Danny go.
Hawerchuk Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 It depends on what he is asking for....If MacArthur gets over 2M in arbitration I think they let him walk. C Mac is NOT worth $2mil!!
Calvin Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 C Mac is NOT worth $2mil!! he's holding down a roster spot that we would need for Kennedy/Gerbe/Mancari.. and yes, General/Lieutenant/Corporal MacArthur does not deserve $2MM.. no way.
North Buffalo Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 What about putting Tallinder on waivers and if someone claims him does that get rid of the salary problem? Same for Stafford. I would rather try and keep Sekera 1st and Mac second then Stafford. Stafford too often lunches for half the game... He has good talent. Mac at least hustles and seems to be making improvements. Stafford seems to have given up getting to the next level and appears to a repeat of Alex Kotalik.
carpandean Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 What about putting Tallinder on waivers and if someone claims him does that get rid of the salary problem? Off waivers? Yes, it does. However, if he clears and you subsequently bring him back up, you subject him to re-entry waivers. If he is picked up at that point, then the two clubs split his remaining salary. The other option would be to buy him out, which would cost them just over $1 million in salary per year for the next two years (2/3 of the remaining salary over twice the remaining years.) The cap hit would be weird because his contract was an increasing one (salary-wise), so we'd end up with roughly a $400k cap hit this year and $1 million cap hit next year.
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