bob_sauve28 Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 I think he makes a pretty good argument, of course that doesn't mean the kid would come here. He is the type of player I think we need http://www.buffalonews.com/buffalosabres/story/708687.html They will replace Jochen Hecht and Maxim Afinogenov, who combined for 18 goals and 47 points last season while stealing a combined $7.3 million from Buffalo. Gerbe and Kennedy will feel like a steal at a combined $1.485 million next season. In addition to Afinogenov and Hecht, Numminen, Peters, Henrik Tallinder and Toni Lydman are gone. All are either dead weight or will become unrestricted free agents in the next 13 months. They're expendable for a team that's two or three years away. Plus, I need to make room for Jay Bouwmeester, the premier defenseman in the free-agent market. He's a difference-maker the Sabres have needed and an upgrade over since-departed Brian Campbell. He would immediately stabilize the blue line, help tutor promising rookie Tyler Myers. Bouwmeester had 15 goals and 42 points last season, scoring nine times on the PP, after a terrible start. He's only 25. Plus, the 6-foot-4, 212-pounder averaged 27 minutes per game last season to lead the league. He and Myers would join Rivet, Weber, Chris Butler, Sekera and Nathan Paetsch on the blue line. Spacek wants to return, but re-signing him is embracing status quo. Plus, at the $3.3 million he made last year, he's way too expensive. The price for Bouwmeester will be somewhere in the $7 million range per season. He wants to play for a contender, preferably in the Western Conference. It makes Buffalo a tough sell. Twelve of the 16 playoff teams were within $2 million of the cap, so his choices appear limited. The Oilers could make a strong pitch for the Edmonton native. Toronto is another team that could get involved. Would an aggressive approach and seven-year deal for $50 million be enough to convince him? It's time to find out. Signing Bouwmeester means payroll must be trimmed elsewhere. Tallinder and Lydman will pocket a combined $6.35 million in 2009-10 before becoming unrestricted free agents. I would trade (OK, give) both away - knowing darned well I'll get clobbered in the trade market. It's better than losing them next July.
Hawerchuk Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 I was glad to see the Buffalo News writers calling out the problems down at HSBC Arena. I think Boumeester would be very good for Buffalo, but they should and need to pursue some scoring wingers in the market. An elite D man would be awesome too!
VansTheMans Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 This was a pleasant and interesting surprise from the Buffalo News. I read the paper this morning and really enjoyed reading the three corresponding Sabres articles. I've been a big proponent of bringing in an elite defenseman like Jay Bo for quite some time now. Cap wise, some moves would need to be made, but its a possibility and certainly not out of the question. Offense starts from a mobile defense; without a supportive defense, the full potential of your offense will not be realized. Elite two way defensemen are so hard to come by, yet they are so crucial to any organization that is seriously seeking to win the Stanley Cup. Jay Bo is one of those dmen; he's very gifted offensively, but can also play the role of a shut down dman. He'd be well worth the 6+ million it'd cost to bring him into the Sabres organization. He's relatively young, but plays like a veteran and would have a very positive affect on the Sabres' defensive corps. With Jay Bo on the team and our stable of young NHL ready dmen, our defense would be very legit in a short amount of time. The mere thought of Jay Bo and Tyler Myers as a defensive pairing should be enough to excite any Sabres fan.
nfreeman Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 This was a pleasant and interesting surprise from the Buffalo News. I read the paper this morning and really enjoyed reading the three corresponding Sabres articles. Me too. I thought they did a pretty good job on all 3 of them, although I also think Bouwmeester is a pipe dream.
ROC Sabres Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 Me too. I thought they did a pretty good job on all 3 of them, although I also think Bouwmeester is a pipe dream. All 3 of the articles seem to be pipe dream but hey, you never know. I mean, TO is on the Bills right?
bob_sauve28 Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Posted June 21, 2009 The cap-o-nomics alone might make it a pipe dream. Is it really possible for us to simply lose Hecht and Tallinder and whoever else to create salary space?
VansTheMans Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 I have to believe some team would be willing to take Tallinder. He did have flashes of brilliance as a shut down dman back in 05-06. His cap hit isn't terrible. Some team desperate for a vet dman would be willing to part with a low pick for Tallinder. Hecht would be a bit more difficult to pull off. Still, I'd have to think some GM in the league would be willing to take a chance on him.
bob_sauve28 Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Posted June 21, 2009 I have to believe some team would be willing to take Tallinder. He did have flashes of brilliance as a shut down dman back in 05-06. His cap hit isn't terrible. Some team desperate for a vet dman would be willing to part with a low pick for Tallinder. Hecht would be a bit more difficult to pull off. Still, I'd have to think some GM in the league would be willing to take a chance on him. So, if we just simply cut them, are we still on the hook for the whole salary?
darksabre Posted June 21, 2009 Report Posted June 21, 2009 I have to believe some team would be willing to take Tallinder. He did have flashes of brilliance as a shut down dman back in 05-06. His cap hit isn't terrible. Some team desperate for a vet dman would be willing to part with a low pick for Tallinder. Hecht would be a bit more difficult to pull off. Still, I'd have to think some GM in the league would be willing to take a chance on him. I mean come on, Edmonton took Kotalik. There's no reason we can't move these guys for at least something.
VansTheMans Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 I was surprised Edmonton gave up a 2nd round to acquire Kotalik.
darksabre Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 I was surprised Edmonton gave up a 2nd round to acquire Kotalik. As was I, which honestly means anything is possible in the offseason. Plausible? Not so much. But at least possible.
SabresFan526 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 I mean come on, Edmonton took Kotalik. There's no reason we can't move these guys for at least something. Thank you for bringing this point up. I am absolutely sick of hearing people hoping to get rid of Tallinder or Lydman or Hecht for low round draft picks or bags of pucks or what have you. Just because we watch them every night does not mean they have no value on the trade market in the NHL. Kotalik was traded for a second round pick. Granted, that pick was turned over by 3 different teams, but that goes to show that a consistent 20 goal scorer is valued at least of a second round pick. I would easily argue that Tallinder, Lydman, and Hecht are all much more valuable players than Kotalik. Kotalik is a perimeter player with a mean slapshot, but he brings absolutely nothing else to the table. He's got size, but he doesn't use it, and he still garnered a second round pick. This is why I think guys like Tallinder, Lydman, and Hecht can easily get at least a second round pick. I mean, Bernier cost a 2nd and 3rd. Rivet cost a 2nd and a 3rd. I have to believe that you can easily get a 2nd and 3rd round pick for any one of these three players. I think Tallinder could even garner a late first round pick. As much as people want to throw these players away, there's a lot of value that can be had on the open market with these guys, and I'm kind of with Darcy in that if a GM does not want to pay fair value for these guys, then there's no point trading them just for the sake of salary cap space. I'm hoping that this finally is the year where Darcy does some wheeling and dealing at the draft and improves this team.
Eleven Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 Thank you for bringing this point up. I am absolutely sick of hearing people hoping to get rid of Tallinder or Lydman or Hecht for low round draft picks or bags of pucks or what have you. Just because we watch them every night does not mean they have no value on the trade market in the NHL. Kotalik was traded for a second round pick. Granted, that pick was turned over by 3 different teams, but that goes to show that a consistent 20 goal scorer is valued at least of a second round pick. I would easily argue that Tallinder, Lydman, and Hecht are all much more valuable players than Kotalik. Kotalik is a perimeter player with a mean slapshot, but he brings absolutely nothing else to the table. He's got size, but he doesn't use it, and he still garnered a second round pick. This is why I think guys like Tallinder, Lydman, and Hecht can easily get at least a second round pick. I mean, Bernier cost a 2nd and 3rd. Rivet cost a 2nd and a 3rd. I have to believe that you can easily get a 2nd and 3rd round pick for any one of these three players. I think Tallinder could even garner a late first round pick. As much as people want to throw these players away, there's a lot of value that can be had on the open market with these guys, and I'm kind of with Darcy in that if a GM does not want to pay fair value for these guys, then there's no point trading them just for the sake of salary cap space. I'm hoping that this finally is the year where Darcy does some wheeling and dealing at the draft and improves this team. Tallinder and Hecht both have worth on the trade market. Tallinder needs a change of scenery badly. Perhaps a psychologist, as well, because before his legal trouble, he really was a decent D-man. Hecht could do well on a team where he's not asked to anchor a scoring line. Each of these guys could bring a third-round (or better) pick, or maybe a checking forward in return. Re: Lydman, I'm not really sure why anyone wants the Sabs to trade him. He's a solid defender. He's not top-five in the league, but he definitely can shut down opponents, and, as we saw at least twice last season, he's not a bad goalie. Lydman is not going to cost top dollar, and I'd rather the Sabres keep him around. I'd rather see Paetch or Butler go instead, if we really need the roster spot. We did get a decent return on Kotalik, but keep in mind that he's got an incredible slapper (when it's working), that he's a good point man on a powerplay, and that he tends to turn one-point games into two-point games in shootouts. He wasn't exactly some zero that the Sabres foisted upon the Oilers. An all-star game isn't in his future, but he's a good hockey player.
SabreFan78 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 Bouwmeester to buffalo would be great but it's not going to happen...they simply won't spend that kind of $ on him. One player that Bucky did mention that I think would be a decent pickup is Rob Scuderi from the Pens. Solid d-man, won't cost a lot, and he can even play a little goalie!
bob_sauve28 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Report Posted June 22, 2009 I'm not on the trade Lydman bandwagon, but I do understand the logic somewhat that Bucky was making. He was saying since he is unrestricted after next season and will probably be gone--a debateable assumption--why not dump him now and get something in return? Hecht I really like, one of my favorite players but he just isn't doing it and his salary hurts. Talinder, well...I wouldn't miss him and the younger players need to play. I know its all a pipedream, but I'd really like a great defenseman on the team.
VansTheMans Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 I agree with the Lydman consensus. I thought he performed solid throughout the season; I believe he lead the Sabres in blocked shots this season, correct? However, as bob_sauve28 said, he's a UFA after this season, and with a handful of dmen waiting to come up from Portland, we might as well attempt to trade him this summer. Hecht, Tallinder and Lydman all have trade value in the league. If Darcy felt the need, he could pawn them off somewhere for something.
nfreeman Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 Thank you for bringing this point up. I am absolutely sick of hearing people hoping to get rid of Tallinder or Lydman or Hecht for low round draft picks or bags of pucks or what have you. Just because we watch them every night does not mean they have no value on the trade market in the NHL. Kotalik was traded for a second round pick. Granted, that pick was turned over by 3 different teams, but that goes to show that a consistent 20 goal scorer is valued at least of a second round pick. I would easily argue that Tallinder, Lydman, and Hecht are all much more valuable players than Kotalik. Kotalik is a perimeter player with a mean slapshot, but he brings absolutely nothing else to the table. He's got size, but he doesn't use it, and he still garnered a second round pick. This is why I think guys like Tallinder, Lydman, and Hecht can easily get at least a second round pick. I mean, Bernier cost a 2nd and 3rd. Rivet cost a 2nd and a 3rd. I have to believe that you can easily get a 2nd and 3rd round pick for any one of these three players. I think Tallinder could even garner a late first round pick. As much as people want to throw these players away, there's a lot of value that can be had on the open market with these guys, and I'm kind of with Darcy in that if a GM does not want to pay fair value for these guys, then there's no point trading them just for the sake of salary cap space. I'm hoping that this finally is the year where Darcy does some wheeling and dealing at the draft and improves this team. You make some good points, but I have to disagree with the bolded part. At this point, cap space and, more importantly, budget space, are far more important to the Sabres than getting maximum return for overpaid, average-to-mediocre players. The Sabres are dying for a good top-6 forward and a good top-4 defenseman. Tallinder and Hecht don't qualify. I would gladly unload both of those guys for a bag of pucks -- because that's a cool $7MM that can be turned into a real contributor. I'm fine with Lydman coming back, but he's also overpaid at $3.2MM. I'd rather have Weber at $700K or whatever, live with his errors, and use the $2.5MM to get a better player. Now, based on past actions and statements, I think Darcy probably agrees with your perspective and is not inclined to just unload guys like Tallinder and Hecht solely to free up cap/budget space. But I think that is the wrong approach. Tallinder and Hecht both have worth on the trade market. Tallinder needs a change of scenery badly. Perhaps a psychologist, as well, because before his legal trouble, he really was a decent D-man. Hecht could do well on a team where he's not asked to anchor a scoring line. Each of these guys could bring a third-round (or better) pick, or maybe a checking forward in return. Re: Lydman, I'm not really sure why anyone wants the Sabs to trade him. He's a solid defender. He's not top-five in the league, but he definitely can shut down opponents, and, as we saw at least twice last season, he's not a bad goalie. Lydman is not going to cost top dollar, and I'd rather the Sabres keep him around. I'd rather see Paetch or Butler go instead, if we really need the roster spot. We did get a decent return on Kotalik, but keep in mind that he's got an incredible slapper (when it's working), that he's a good point man on a powerplay, and that he tends to turn one-point games into two-point games in shootouts. He wasn't exactly some zero that the Sabres foisted upon the Oilers. An all-star game isn't in his future, but he's a good hockey player.
inkman Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 I think he makes a pretty good argument, of course that doesn't mean the kid would come here. He is the type of player I think we need Hasn't basically every off season thread turned into a bring Bouwmeester to Buffalo campaign? I felt like I've already read this article one hundred times already...and grown men have resorted to calling him Jay Bo? Really?
deluca67 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 Hasn't basically every off season thread turned into a bring Bouwmeester to Buffalo campaign? I felt like I've already read this article one hundred times already...and grown men have resorted to calling him Jay Bo? Really? The "I'm Gay-Bo for Jay-Bo!" t-shirts are already in production. :thumbsup:
... Posted June 22, 2009 Report Posted June 22, 2009 At this point, cap space and, more importantly, budget space, are far more important to the Sabres than getting maximum return for overpaid, average-to-mediocre players. The Sabres are dying for a good top-6 forward and a good top-4 defenseman. Tallinder and Hecht don't qualify. I would gladly unload both of those guys for a bag of pucks -- because that's a cool $7MM that can be turned into a real contributor. I'm fine with Lydman coming back, but he's also overpaid at $3.2MM. I'd rather have Weber at $700K or whatever, live with his errors, and use the $2.5MM to get a better player. Now, based on past actions and statements, I think Darcy probably agrees with your perspective and is not inclined to just unload guys like Tallinder and Hecht solely to free up cap/budget space. But I think that is the wrong approach. Good post. I agree with you entirely. It's fun to wish in one hand during the off season, but more often than not we're usually pissing in the other (metaphorically speaking, of course). I don't like to say that, but it's true. This area is mired in mediocrity.
SarasotaSabre Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 Tallinder and Hecht both have worth on the trade market. Tallinder needs a change of scenery badly. Perhaps a psychologist, as well, because before his legal trouble, he really was a decent D-man. Hecht could do well on a team where he's not asked to anchor a scoring line. Each of these guys could bring a third-round (or better) pick, or maybe a checking forward in return. Re: Lydman, I'm not really sure why anyone wants the Sabs to trade him. He's a solid defender. He's not top-five in the league, but he definitely can shut down opponents, and, as we saw at least twice last season, he's not a bad goalie. Lydman is not going to cost top dollar, and I'd rather the Sabres keep him around. I'd rather see Paetch or Butler go instead, if we really need the roster spot. We did get a decent return on Kotalik, but keep in mind that he's got an incredible slapper (when it's working), that he's a good point man on a powerplay, and that he tends to turn one-point games into two-point games in shootouts. He wasn't exactly some zero that the Sabres foisted upon the Oilers. An all-star game isn't in his future, but he's a good hockey player. Lydman over Butler? You sir need to go back to the crack pipe....
darksabre Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 Lydman over Butler? You sir need to go back to the crack pipe.... Maybe you should take up the habit. Lydman was our most solid D-man this season and is a veteran presence. Yes, we all love that Butler showed the signs of being a good player last season, but he is not a proven talent yet. In a situation where it was Lydman or Butler, I would take Lydman and his experience vs. Butler and his potential.
shrader Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 Maybe you should take up the habit. Lydman was our most solid D-man this season and is a veteran presence. Yes, we all love that Butler showed the signs of being a good player last season, but he is not a proven talent yet. In a situation where it was Lydman or Butler, I would take Lydman and his experience vs. Butler and his potential. And it's worth noting that when Eleven said he'd rather see Butler go, it's pretty safe to say that he doesn't mean shipping him out of the organization.
deluca67 Posted June 24, 2009 Report Posted June 24, 2009 Maybe you should take up the habit. Lydman was our most solid D-man this season and is a veteran presence. Yes, we all love that Butler showed the signs of being a good player last season, but he is not a proven talent yet. In a situation where it was Lydman or Butler, I would take Lydman and his experience vs. Butler and his potential. Without Lydman, who would be on the ice late in close games taking incredibly stupid penalties?
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.