Pittsburgh A City of Champions

[cursedmike]

Pittsburgh Pennsylvannia: A city just 3 hours south of Buffalo. Let's look at its rich sports championship history: :thumbsup:

 

Pittsburgh Pirates: World Series Champions 1909, 1925, 1960, 1971, 1979

Pittsburgh Penguins: Stanley Cup Champions 1991,1992,2009

Pittsburgh Steelers: Super Bowl Champions 1975,1976, 1979,1980, 2006,2009

 

Now let's look at Buffalo's rich sports championship history: :wallbash: :thumbdown:

 

Buffalo Bills Super Bowls 1991, 1992,1993,1994 (Lost Them All!)

Buffalo Sabres Stanley Cups 1975, 1999 (Lost Both!)

 

Buffalo Braves: Left Town 1977 :death:

 

Buffalo Stallions: Left Town 1984 :death:

 

Buffalo Blizzard: Left Town 2001 :death:

 

Buffalo Destroyers: Left Town 2004 :death:

 

Wide Right

:censored:

 

Homerun Throwback

:censored:

 

No Goal

:censored:

 

No Hope!

[MattPie]

You forgot the Bandits. They've won a bunch of titles. The Bisons have won their league a few times too.

 

Besides, I'm sure Hamilton would be happy to have a football and hockey team, winning or not.

[wjag]

It does seem like Championships cluster around certain cities. Congratulations to Pittsburgh.

[bakesj26]

Sidney still begs for the protien :rolleyes:

[Corp000085]

2009... The Year of the Yinz.

 

 

 

2010... The Year of the Buffalo!

[thesportsbuff]

i hate sidney crosby

[Stoner]

You forgot Pitt winning it all in football in 76 I think. Pittsburgh also had an ABA champion, I do believe.

 

Yeah, a lot has to do with the vibe there. Even in bad times, I don't think the people there reflect the negativity onto their teams, or try to live vicariously through them. They truly embrace their stars. Want to talk about karma? They adored Mario and treated him like one of their own. So he decides to stay there, builds a huge house there. And buys the team. And when Sidney Crosby comes along, invites the kid to move in.

 

The conventional wisdom would seem to suggest the Pens got lucky to get him. And if the Sabres had him and Malkin and Staal and Fleury, we'd still be celebrating today. I dunno. How long would it have taken for the pressure of delivering a Cup in his first season to wear the kid down? I asked how he would have fared under Ruff's unbearable negativity and heavy-handedness. Would Sid have his first Selke yet? Who would he have lived with, Larry Playfair? Our greatest, Bert, has been pissy about things since he retired.

 

Name a Sabre great who left on anything remotely close to good terms. I'll wait over here by the vending machine.

 

You're drafted by the Sabres and look at the slug. What does it tell you? What does it remind you of? What great player, or great moment? Now, you're drafted by the Wings or the Pens and look at their logo. Ask the same question.

 

These things come back to haunt you.

 

By the way, the big international summit -- forget the name, G-8 or something -- is coming to Pittsburgh, a former steel town that lost half its population in 50 years, a place that is making a pretty remarkable economic comeback.

[SwampD]

You forgot Pitt winning it all in football in 76 I think. Pittsburgh also had an ABA champion, I do believe.

 

Yeah, a lot has to do with the vibe there. Even in bad times, I don't think the people there reflect the negativity onto their teams, or try to live vicariously through them. They truly embrace their stars. Want to talk about karma? They adored Mario and treated him like one of their own. So he decides to stay there, builds a huge house there. And buys the team. And when Sidney Crosby comes along, invites the kid to move in.

 

The conventional wisdom would seem to suggest the Pens got lucky to get him. And if the Sabres had him and Malkin and Staal and Fleury, we'd still be celebrating today. I dunno. How long would it have taken for the pressure of delivering a Cup in his first season to wear the kid down? I asked how he would have fared under Ruff's unbearable negativity and heavy-handedness. Would Sid have his first Selke yet? Who would he have lived with, Larry Playfair? Our greatest, Bert, has been pissy about things since he retired.

 

Name a Sabre great who left on anything remotely close to good terms. I'll wait over here by the vending machine.

 

You're drafted by the Sabres and look at the slug. What does it tell you? What does it remind you of? What great player, or great moment? Now, you're drafted by the Wings or the Pens and look at their logo. Ask the same question.

 

These things come back to haunt you.

 

By the way, the big international summit -- forget the name, G-8 or something -- is coming to Pittsburgh, a former steel town that lost half its population in 50 years, a place that is making a pretty remarkable economic comeback.

What did Einstein say? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result." If you ask me, we get the teams we deserve in Buffalo. Fans complaining about the logo because of some false sense of sentimentality, holding on to a coach because of that same false sentimentality, it reminds me of a post in another thread;

Well, hello there Buffalo. I know you. You're the one who is really unhappy with the "status quo", yet you don't want to change anything, right?

If we are afraid to try big changes, with the possibility of failing big, then it seems to me like we are just holding on to losing, for the same reason. I'd rather choose winning over sentimentality.

[IKnowPhysics]

OP also forgot the Buffalo Bills AFL championships in 1964 and 1965.

[BetweenThePipes00]

You forgot Pitt winning it all in football in 76 I think. Pittsburgh also had an ABA champion, I do believe.

 

Yeah, a lot has to do with the vibe there. Even in bad times, I don't think the people there reflect the negativity onto their teams, or try to live vicariously through them. They truly embrace their stars. Want to talk about karma? They adored Mario and treated him like one of their own. So he decides to stay there, builds a huge house there. And buys the team. And when Sidney Crosby comes along, invites the kid to move in.

 

The conventional wisdom would seem to suggest the Pens got lucky to get him. And if the Sabres had him and Malkin and Staal and Fleury, we'd still be celebrating today. I dunno. How long would it have taken for the pressure of delivering a Cup in his first season to wear the kid down? I asked how he would have fared under Ruff's unbearable negativity and heavy-handedness. Would Sid have his first Selke yet? Who would he have lived with, Larry Playfair? Our greatest, Bert, has been pissy about things since he retired.

 

Name a Sabre great who left on anything remotely close to good terms. I'll wait over here by the vending machine.

 

You're drafted by the Sabres and look at the slug. What does it tell you? What does it remind you of? What great player, or great moment? Now, you're drafted by the Wings or the Pens and look at their logo. Ask the same question.

 

These things come back to haunt you.

 

By the way, the big international summit -- forget the name, G-8 or something -- is coming to Pittsburgh, a former steel town that lost half its population in 50 years, a place that is making a pretty remarkable economic comeback.

 

OK, look ... some of what you are saying is true ... but obviously not everything comes back to haunt you, because the Pens have now been rewarded TWICE for tanking ... first they tanked to get Lemieux, then they tanked to make sure they got Ovechkin or Malkin. They DID get lucky that the No. 2 pick was nearly the equal of the No. 1 pick that season.

I am not saying anything about what the Sabres or any other team could have or would have done with these players. The Pens deserve credit for trading up to get Fleury and really, maybe they deserve credit for tanking. Like i said, it has worked twice. They built a great team and I'm not taking anything away from them. But don't talk about karma when they tanked twice.

Also, let's get something straight about Mario here ... he bought the team because it was the ONLY way he was getting the money that was owed to him. He was one of the if not THE biggest creditor when the team was staring bankruptcy in the face and the only way he was going to get his money was to buy the team and hopefully turn it around. They owed him more than $30 million in deferred salary and he converted that into equity and assumed control ... it's not like he wrote a check. It was his only play or he was getting pennies on the dollar. Also, this happened in 1999 and despite the city's "embracing" of him, they still were struggling and had no plans for a new arena until they fell ass-backwards into Crosby five years later. Several times Lemieux himself threatened to move the team to Kansas City or somewhere else. Since they got the new arena approved, they have run a first-class organization. But before that no one knew what was going to happen and things looked pretty bleak. I good friend of mine worked for the team in the early 2000s and the place was a mess with all kinds of in-fighting and corner-cutting because they had no money.

 

Now, I believe Mario knows what he is doing and it just took him some time to get things running the right way. But he needed money to do it, and for that he needed the new arena. Fleury and Malkin were nice, but before the lockout no one knew if Fleury would be any good and Malkin had not played a game in North America yet. Winning the Crosby lottery went a long way toward saving that franchise in Pittsburgh. They have made the most of it and deserve the credit for that.

[shrader]

OP also forgot the Buffalo Bills AFL championships in 1964 and 1965.

 

He conveniently left those out, the Bandits, and the now non-existant basketball team in Pittsburgh because they didn't back up his point.

 

Oh, and if we're going to include those lower level sports, why not mention that Buffalo Stampede roller hockey championship?

[Stoner]

He conveniently left those out, the Bandits, and the now non-existant basketball team in Pittsburgh because they didn't back up his point.

 

Oh, and if we're going to include those lower level sports, why not mention that Buffalo Stampede roller hockey championship?

 

His point needs little backup. Pittsburgh wins and wins and wins. Buffalo doesn't -- at least not in leagues people care about now, anymore, or ever.

[Hawerchuk]

but.... hey.. The BANDITS won a couple championships!!

 

uh.. yeah.. not quite the same as a Cup or SuperBowl, huh? :wallbash:

[Stoner]

OK, look ... some of what you are saying is true ... but obviously not everything comes back to haunt you, because the Pens have now been rewarded TWICE for tanking ... first they tanked to get Lemieux, then they tanked to make sure they got Ovechkin or Malkin. They DID get lucky that the No. 2 pick was nearly the equal of the No. 1 pick that season.

I am not saying anything about what the Sabres or any other team could have or would have done with these players. The Pens deserve credit for trading up to get Fleury and really, maybe they deserve credit for tanking. Like i said, it has worked twice. They built a great team and I'm not taking anything away from them. But don't talk about karma when they tanked twice.

Also, let's get something straight about Mario here ... he bought the team because it was the ONLY way he was getting the money that was owed to him. He was one of the if not THE biggest creditor when the team was staring bankruptcy in the face and the only way he was going to get his money was to buy the team and hopefully turn it around. They owed him more than $30 million in deferred salary and he converted that into equity and assumed control ... it's not like he wrote a check. It was his only play or he was getting pennies on the dollar. Also, this happened in 1999 and despite the city's "embracing" of him, they still were struggling and had no plans for a new arena until they fell ass-backwards into Crosby five years later. Several times Lemieux himself threatened to move the team to Kansas City or somewhere else. Since they got the new arena approved, they have run a first-class organization. But before that no one knew what was going to happen and things looked pretty bleak. I good friend of mine worked for the team in the early 2000s and the place was a mess with all kinds of in-fighting and corner-cutting because they had no money.

 

Now, I believe Mario knows what he is doing and it just took him some time to get things running the right way. But he needed money to do it, and for that he needed the new arena. Fleury and Malkin were nice, but before the lockout no one knew if Fleury would be any good and Malkin had not played a game in North America yet. Winning the Crosby lottery went a long way toward saving that franchise in Pittsburgh. They have made the most of it and deserve the credit for that.

 

I have a feeling no one at the parade on Monday is going to care about any of this.

 

It's magic. How does one franchise, across generations, come back in series after series, winning three Cups in the process, and another has practically no series comebacks in four decades? (The franchise high point in playoff comebacks would be coming back from 3-2 down against Ottawa in 97.)

 

Institutional memory means a lot. The Pens are down 2-0 against Detroit and there stands Mario Lemieux to tell tales of previous comebacks. The Sabres fall 2-0 to Ottawa in 07 and they look up and see some retread former player as coach who never won Jack Squat.

 

You get what you pay for, so to speak.

[shrader]

His point needs little backup. Pittsburgh wins and wins and wins. Buffalo doesn't -- at least not in leagues people care about now, anymore, or ever.

 

Absolutely, but I still dont have any clue why he listed all those low level teams that left Buffalo.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I have a feeling no one at the parade on Monday is going to care about any of this.

 

It's magic. How does one franchise, across generations, come back in series after series, winning three Cups in the process, and another has practically no series comebacks in four decades? (The franchise high point in playoff comebacks would be coming back from 3-2 down against Ottawa in 97.)

 

Institutional memory means a lot. The Pens are down 2-0 against Detroit and there stands Mario Lemieux to tell tales of previous comebacks. The Sabres fall 2-0 to Ottawa in 07 and they look up and see some retread former player as coach who never won Jack Squat.

 

You get what you pay for, so to speak.

 

Wait a second ... let's not make them out to be the 1980 Olympic team beating the Russians here ... it could be argued that every Cup the Penguins have won they did so with the best player in the world at the time. The 91 and 92 teams were clearly great teams. And how do you explain the 1993 team choking against the islanders after one of the best regular seasons in NHL history? I guess all that magic ran out? Did Mario not tell that story?

It's not magic and it is not karma. If the issue was "negative vibes" in Buffalo, how the hell do you explain winning two home playoff games in 1993 to go to the fourth Super Bowl after 3 losses? Weren't we all jinxing it by waiting for something bad to happen? How does Drury score with 7 seconds left? If the issue is "positive vibes" in Pittsburgh, how the hell did the Steelers lose so many AFC title games at home? How did a shorthanded Bills team beat them 24-3 in the playoffs in 3 Rivers? How the hell did Sid Bream beat the throw? how have the Pirates sucked for 16 straight years?

 

Come on. They put themselves in position to win championships, and they have gotten it done a lot. Buffalo teams have not. Sometimes we caught a bad break, sometimes we just flat out were not good enough. That's the way it goes.

I lived half my life in Buffalo and almost all of the other half in the Pittsburgh area. Both are great places, there is nothing "magic" going on.

[Stoner]

Wait a second ... let's not make them out to be the 1980 Olympic team beating the Russians here ... it could be argued that every Cup the Penguins have won they did so with the best player in the world at the time. The 91 and 92 teams were clearly great teams. And how do you explain the 1993 team choking against the islanders after one of the best regular seasons in NHL history? I guess all that magic ran out? Did Mario not tell that story?

It's not magic and it is not karma. If the issue was "negative vibes" in Buffalo, how the hell do you explain winning two home playoff games in 1993 to go to the fourth Super Bowl after 3 losses? Weren't we all jinxing it by waiting for something bad to happen? How does Drury score with 7 seconds left? If the issue is "positive vibes" in Pittsburgh, how the hell did the Steelers lose so many AFC title games at home? How did a shorthanded Bills team beat them 24-3 in the playoffs in 3 Rivers? How the hell did Sid Bream beat the throw? how have the Pirates sucked for 16 straight years?

 

Come on. They put themselves in position to win championships, and they have gotten it done a lot. Buffalo teams have not. Sometimes we caught a bad break, sometimes we just flat out were not good enough. That's the way it goes.

I lived half my life in Buffalo and almost all of the other half in the Pittsburgh area. Both are great places, there is nothing "magic" going on.

 

Dick Irvin said it best, as recounted by Mike Emrick, a man I'm still not sure whether I would kill, #%^$#! or marry -- "The unseen hand." Don't tell me during Game 6 against Dallas or Game 7 against Pittsburgh or Game 6 against Washington that most fans in the arena weren't waiting to lose. Why do Sabre crowds (let's leave the Bills out of it, PLEASE!) get so quiet and creepy at such moments. Waiting to lose. I believe the players pick up on it.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Dick Irvin said it best, as recounted by Mike Emrick, a man I'm still not sure whether I would kill, #%^$#! or marry -- "The unseen hand." Don't tell me during Game 6 against Dallas or Game 7 against Pittsburgh or Game 6 against Washington that most fans in the arena weren't waiting to lose. Why do Sabre crowds (let's leave the Bills out of it, PLEASE!) get so quiet and creepy at such moments. Waiting to lose. I believe the players pick up on it.

 

OK so, again, explain Briere's OT goal in game 6 vs. Carolina and Drury's goal against NYR and max's goal a few minutes later. You gave me 3 examples, i gave you three back. For that matter, explain Derek Plante, Dave Hanan, Robert in the Fog Game, Gare against the Habs ... that's just the home games.

And again, explain how Barrasso whiffs on Volek's OT goal in at home in Game 7 in 1993 (very much like Hasek vs. Kasparaitis) if there is such "magic" in Pittsburgh. In 1995 the Pens lost in 5 despite home-ice advantage against New Jersey ... where was all the magic? It's pretty unreliable apparently.

 

They have just been better. And at times worse also, but they have turned the horrible years into championships ... it is what it is. But it's not magic.

[blugold43]

Dick Irvin said it best, as recounted by Mike Emrick, a man I'm still not sure whether I would kill, #%^$#! or marry -- "The unseen hand." Don't tell me during Game 6 against Dallas or Game 7 against Pittsburgh or Game 6 against Washington that most fans in the arena weren't waiting to lose. Why do Sabre crowds (let's leave the Bills out of it, PLEASE!) get so quiet and creepy at such moments. Waiting to lose. I believe the players pick up on it.

i get your point and even agree in a really vague general way, but i was at the dallas cup-losing game and that's not how i remember it at all. the building felt pretty optimistic to me, even though dallas had the better team.

[Stoner]

OK so, again, explain Briere's OT goal in game 6 vs. Carolina and Drury's goal against NYR and max's goal a few minutes later. You gave me 3 examples, i gave you three back. For that matter, explain Derek Plante, Dave Hanan, Robert in the Fog Game, Gare against the Habs ... that's just the home games.

And again, explain how Barrasso whiffs on Volek's OT goal in at home in Game 7 in 1993 (very much like Hasek vs. Kasparaitis) if there is such "magic" in Pittsburgh. In 1995 the Pens lost in 5 despite home-ice advantage against New Jersey ... where was all the magic? It's pretty unreliable apparently.

 

They have just been better. And at times worse also, but they have turned the horrible years into championships ... it is what it is. But it's not magic.

 

Are we really arguing about magic? Not everything can be rationally analyzed, even on a board full of hockey wonks like this one. It's a crazy game with crazy bounces. Luck, magic, whatever want to call it has to play into it somehow.

 

The puck drops on Mario's stick in Game 6.

 

Some things can't be explained.

[SwampD]

In hockey, you make your own luck.

[wonderbread]

The parade root in Pittsburgh goes right by my building. I watched the Steelers parade now I guess I will have to watch the Pens. Its odd all those people there cheering for their team, and me the lone Sabres/Bills fan staring at the cup/lombardi trophy. Last week I had the new steelers superbowl ring in my hands. Man what a sight!

[BetweenThePipes00]

Are we really arguing about magic? Not everything can be rationally analyzed, even on a board full of hockey wonks like this one. It's a crazy game with crazy bounces. Luck, magic, whatever want to call it has to play into it somehow.

 

The puck drops on Mario's stick in Game 6.

 

Some things can't be explained.

Maybe not, but over 40 years those things kind of even out .. the Sabres have had "magic" moments both ways, as have the Pens.

I'm just saying you can't have it both ways ... it can't be mismanagement and lack of effort and bad decisions driving players away when the Sabres lose and "magic" when the Penguins win. The Penguins DID have some luck getting Crosby and Malkin, but they made the most of it with smart management off the ice and great effort in the playoffs on the ice. If you really believe it's just karma and magic, then why bother complaining about the Sabres mistakes? it's out of their hands, right?

[Stoner]

Maybe not, but over 40 years those things kind of even out .. the Sabres have had "magic" moments both ways, as have the Pens.

I'm just saying you can't have it both ways ... it can't be mismanagement and lack of effort and bad decisions driving players away when the Sabres lose and "magic" when the Penguins win. The Penguins DID have some luck getting Crosby and Malkin, but they made the most of it with smart management off the ice and great effort in the playoffs on the ice. If you really believe it's just karma and magic, then why bother complaining about the Sabres mistakes? it's out of their hands, right?

 

I believe it's all predetermined. When your number comes up, you win the Cup.

 

And I believe the Sabres' number had indeed come up in 75... until Lorentz killed the bat.

[elcrusho]

Buffalo Stampede Roller Hockey Champions 1994......

 

Yeah I was at the Aud for that