[OT] What if the Bills get Michael Vick?

[bottlecap]

This idea struck me as the ultimate. Just supposing for one year, the Bills become the Oakland Raiders and stock their lineup with the worst ex and current felons and insane personalities.

[Guest Sloth]

Please tell me you are flat out drunk, and that is the reason you made this post.

[Stoner]

Why not? Because Vick did something bad to animals? Aren't people animals? There are worse degenerates already on the roster.

[ReneRobert]

Why not? Because Vick did something bad to animals? Aren't people animals? There are worse degenerates already on the roster.

 

 

You are far too intelligent to make such an idiotic statement. I am unaware of any Bill having been convicted of a federal crime for managing, bankrolling, and covering up an interstate torture and murder operation....

[JujuFish]

Why not? Because Vick did something bad to animals? Aren't people animals? There are worse degenerates already on the roster.

For me it's because he was a mediocre quarterback before his conviction and now he's had 2 years away from the NFL to only get worse.

[Stoner]

For me it's because he was a mediocre quarterback before his conviction and now he's had 2 years away from the NFL to only get worse.

 

Now that's a good reason.

[Stoner]

You are far too intelligent to make such an idiotic statement. I am unaware of any Bill having been convicted of a federal crime for managing, bankrolling, and covering up an interstate torture and murder operation....

 

I like animals and by no means defend abuse of them in any way. I won't even kill a fly. I herd them out of the house with a newspaper.

 

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. When Marshawn Lynch ran into (or over?) a woman and didn't stop, injuring her, he committed a far more important and greater crime than Michael Vick ever did.

 

Killing a dog is murder? Really? You having the leftover chicken parm for lunch?

[Guest Sloth]

I like animals and by no means defend abuse of them in any way. I won't even kill a fly. I herd them out of the house with a newspaper.

 

But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. When Marshawn Lynch ran into (or over?) a woman and didn't stop, injuring her, he committed a far more important and greater crime than Michael Vick ever did.

 

Killing a dog is murder? Really? You having the leftover chicken parm for lunch?

 

 

I'm glad you don't support the abuse of animal abuse, and I also support your opinion on Marshawn Lynch. But the fact Michael Vick ran a gambling ring, a federal crime, in the U.S. makes him just as bad as Lynch. What type of role model is he? An owner should want a team that a community can be proud of for more than just winning a championship. Would you seriously want your kid, I don't know if you have one, to look up to Michael Vick? Would you want the words, "Daddy, I want to be Michael Vick when I'm older." My daughter is only 18 months old, and we have a son due on July 10th. I won't have them support a team full of bad role models. Putting up good numbers in the NFL is not the only thing a player should be concerned about. My support of the Bills would drop trememdously if the Bills picked him up. It has already dropped a bit w/ the signing of T.O.

[Stoner]

I'm glad you don't support the abuse of animal abuse, and I also support your opinion on Marshawn Lynch. But the fact Michael Vick ran a gambling ring, a federal crime, in the U.S. makes him just as bad as Lynch. What type of role model is he? An owner should want a team that a community can be proud of for more than just winning a championship. Would you seriously want your kid, I don't know if you have one, to look up to Michael Vick? Would you want the words, "Daddy, I want to be Michael Vick when I'm older." My daughter is only 18 months old, and we have a son due on July 10th. I won't have them support a team full of bad role models. Putting up good numbers in the NFL is not the only thing a player should be concerned about. My support of the Bills would drop trememdously if the Bills picked him up. It has already dropped a bit w/ the signing of T.O.

 

I think parents ought to point to people they KNOW are good role models. In an ideal world, a kid would look up to his parents, older siblings, aunts and uncles, grandparents, teachers, older friends, friends of the family and the like. I honestly think more kids have those kinds of role models than professional athletes, actors, etc. That's good. What Sabre would you want your kid to have as a role model? I'd say none. We really know only what they and the team want us to know about them. Jason Pominville seems like a nice guy, but who the hell knows.

 

As for the Bills, how is "character" working out for them? It fails on one of two levels: 1. The team still lost. 2. They acquired more than their share of people with character problems anyway.

 

T.O.? What did he ever do besides flap his gums and act like an idiot? This idea that Owens is such a bad guy -- while a lot of white athletes get a pass for doing the same thing -- does strike me as so curious that I wonder if his race has something to do with it. No, I'm not suggesting you're a racist.

[Two or less]

Vick didn't kill anyone. What he did was wrong and he should be sorry for it, but i'd be all for it for him to come to the Bills.

[thesportsbuff]

Vick didn't kill anyone. What he did was wrong and he should be sorry for it, but i'd be all for it for him to come to the Bills.

 

as someone else said, I'd be willing to put the gambling ring/dog fighting/whatever aside for him.. IF he were a good quarterback.

[Guest Sloth]

I think parents ought to point to people they KNOW are good role models. In an ideal world, a kid would look up to his parents, older siblings, aunts and uncles, grandparents, teachers, older friends, friends of the family and the like. I honestly think more kids have those kinds of role models than professional athletes, actors, etc. That's good. What Sabre would you want your kid to have as a role model? I'd say none. We really know only what they and the team want us to know about them. Jason Pominville seems like a nice guy, but who the hell knows.

 

As for the Bills, how is "character" working out for them? It fails on one of two levels: 1. The team still lost. 2. They acquired more than their share of people with character problems anyway.

 

T.O.? What did he ever do besides flap his gums and act like an idiot? This idea that Owens is such a bad guy -- while a lot of white athletes get a pass for doing the same thing -- does strike me as so curious that I wonder if his race has something to do with it. No, I'm not suggesting you're a racist.

 

Whoa, you took this way out of context. I agree w/ the idea of parents displaying what type of person one should follow as a role model. It bothers me that many parents expect their child's teachers, at school, to give their children the proper guidance. It's been happening more and more in our society, and it disappoints me greatly. Parents should always be the first and continuous role models for their children. A parent should not expect someone else to take their place as a role model, but they should make sure their children are following the proper role models.

As for the Sabres, you're right. I do not know what type of person Jason Pomminstein is, but at least he displays the appearance of what a person should strive to be, where as Michael Vick has failed to do so. T.O. has been a problem in every city he has played in. He's been the type of person where it's me first and you second. T.O. talks negatively about other people when it is not proper to do so; not that it should ever be. What type of role model is that? As for racism, I am STRONGLY against it. Even though you pointed out you were not calling me a racist, I still find it as if you chose to do so. I never mentioned anything about a white person being pardoned for something, where as a minority should not be pardoned for the same problem or activity that had taken place.

[darksabre]

But then Byron Brown would give him a key to the city and TO would get jealous and destroy the team!

[billsrcursed]

Whoa, you took this way out of context. I agree w/ the idea of parents displaying what type of person one should follow as a role model. It bothers me that many parents expect their child's teachers, at school, to give their children the proper guidance. It's been happening more and more in our society, and it disappoints me greatly. Parents should always be the first and continuous role models for their children. A parent should not expect someone else to take their place as a role model, but they should make sure their children are following the proper role models.

As for the Sabres, you're right. I do not know what type of person Jason Pomminstein is, but at least he displays the appearance of what a person should strive to be, where as Michael Vick has failed to do so. T.O. has been a problem in every city he has played in. He's been the type of person where it's me first and you second. T.O. talks negatively about other people when it is not proper to do so; not that it should ever be. What type of role model is that? As for racism, I am STRONGLY against it. Even though you pointed out you were not calling me a racist, I still find it as if you chose to do so. I never mentioned anything about a white person being pardoned for something, where as a minority should not be pardoned for the same problem or activity that had taken place.

 

You're not too big on the "forgiveness" thing, are you?

 

And PA was right, how's that whole "character" thing doing for the Bills??

 

Concerning ourselves with athlete's personal lives is trendy and ghey (not that there's anything wrong with that), I'm more worried about the on the field product. For what Vick could bring to the team, I would be interested.....

 

I could list a thousand guys who had character flaws/off-field issues that won Superbowls and are in the Hall of Fame (Lawrence Taylor, Michael Irvin, Brett Favre,....) and I would take a guy like them in a heartbeat, because ultimately, they're here to win, not be nice to everyone.

 

Lastly, I think media plays a MUCH bigger role in sports nowadays compared to back in the 70's and 80's. We hear a lot more now, but trust me, these types of things were going on back then also. Maybe not a dog fighting ring, but I promise you there were some serious felons putting NFL helmets on back then just as there is now.

[Guest Sloth]

You're not too big on the "forgiveness" thing, are you?

 

And PA was right, how's that whole "character" thing doing for the Bills??

 

Concerning ourselves with athlete's personal lives is trendy and ghey (not that there's anything wrong with that), I'm more worried about the on the field product. For what Vick could bring to the team, I would be interested.....

 

I could list a thousand guys who had character flaws/off-field issues that won Superbowls and are in the Hall of Fame (Lawrence Taylor, Michael Irvin, Brett Favre,....) and I would take a guy like them in a heartbeat, because ultimately, they're here to win, not be nice to everyone.

 

Lastly, I think media plays a MUCH bigger role in sports nowadays compared to back in the 70's and 80's. We hear a lot more now, but trust me, these types of things were going on back then also. Maybe not a dog fighting ring, but I promise you there were some serious felons putting NFL helmets on back then just as there is now.

 

Why is it that an athlete can do whatever he wants off the field and keep his or her job, in most cases, and a teacher cannot. There have been teachers, mostly female, in the past who either chose to pose for some rather improper pictures or had photos of them, not by their choice, getting wasted on the internet. After either of those happened, the teacher was let go. Why should an athlete not be held on the same pedastal? Society contradicts itself in so many ways, and it makes me sick.

[darksabre]

Why is it that an athlete can do whatever he wants off the field and keep his or her job, in most cases, and a teacher cannot. There have been teachers, mostly female, in the past who either chose to pose for some rather improper pictures or had photos of them, not by their choice, getting wasted on the internet. After either of those happened, the teacher was let go. Why should an athlete not be held on the same pedastal? Society contradicts itself in so many ways, and it makes me sick.

 

Because the world is not black and white. The job of a school teacher is a much more personal situation, where one on one interactions occur daily between students, other teachers, and parents. They are much more involved in the foundation of society than a football player is. If there were no football, society wouldn't suffer. But if there were no teachers, society would crumble. Teachers, police, firefighters, anyone in the public sector that matters, is subject to harsher criticism.

[Guest Sloth]

Because the world is not black and white. The job of a school teacher is a much more personal situation, where one on one interactions occur daily between students, other teachers, and parents. They are much more involved in the foundation of society than a football player is. If there were no football, society wouldn't suffer. But if there were no teachers, society would crumble. Teachers, police, firefighters, anyone in the public sector that matters, is subject to harsher criticism.

 

It gives no excuse to athletes. A number of 12 year old kids have their heroes, and they care more about what their heroes do or think. You can't tell me a teacher had more of an impact on you than your childhood "hero." I have worked as a teacher, and I am currently employed as a firefighter. If you only knew the way firefighter's act, while on duty, you'd have a different opinion. We are all people. Anyone in any type of spotlight should strive to promote what is proper and what is not proper. No excuse should be made for whether a person is an athlete or a person who provides some type of service to society. I have my opinion, and you have your own. The same level of criticism should be provided to both. I am sick and tired of the continuous argument that has been held in our society. Everyone should be held to the same accountability.

[bottlecap]

Ralph Wilson has been shown to be an expert at picking bad characters over the years, why not just take that formula to the nth degree? Just get the worst collection of bad characters you can find for one year, and steal a championship before he kicks the bucket.

[Drulloch]

T.O. is the World's Best $6.5m advertising campaign ever...ESPECIALLY with his own reality show rolling into town.

 

As for Vick...get the man some PETA ads, focus the PR back on the fact that murderers and rapists regularly start in the NFL and that he wasn't convicted of hurting a "mother or father", and start the man next to Trent in a no-huddle pseudo-Wildcat.

 

LOL

 

;-p

[2ForTripping]

Vick is a thug a#$^$#!e plain and simple

[billsrcursed]

Why is it that an athlete can do whatever he wants off the field and keep his or her job, in most cases, and a teacher cannot. There have been teachers, mostly female, in the past who either chose to pose for some rather improper pictures or had photos of them, not by their choice, getting wasted on the internet. After either of those happened, the teacher was let go. Why should an athlete not be held on the same pedastal? Society contradicts itself in so many ways, and it makes me sick.

 

Uh....Vick will be let go by the Falcons. It's the same thing. This "said" teacher can move to another part of the country and land a job in the same field (depending on the severity of the situation) so how is this different than Vick landing on another team?? Bottom line is this, if Goodell allows him back in, teams can take a chance on him. I don't see the difference. And to be clear, comparing the job of an NFL player to a school teacher is not a very good comparison at all.... we're talking about playing a game, not being relied upon to instill the necessary tools to function properly in society, I would HOPE the criteria and expectations were a tad more..... I'm not saying I want this guy to tutor my daughter after school, but there are certain "jobs" that ANY ex-con should be able to do, provided they did there time and are under certain guidelines/restrictions.

 

And to your comment regarding children's heroes - My favorite player growing up was Lawrence Taylor. I idolized every strand of grass that man walked on. When I got his auto-biography I cried at how bad of a person he was. It made me sick. I DID NOT go out and purchase crack, I DID NOT fail to pay child support, I DID NOT attempt to jump a police officer and take his gun, I DID NOT get as drunk as I could and climb up a college building brick by brick. People make their own decisions in life. To say someone influenced me enough to do something harmful or illegal is the ultimate puss-out. I despise those who blame others for their actions. Children are impressionable, that's true, but a parent's neglect at censoring what their children surround themselves with is just as sickening as what some of these athletes (and people in general) do.

 

He did an awful thing, and has paid his debt to society. He deserves another chance if someone is willing to give it to him. I don't see the difference between him and anyone else convicted of a crime....

[Guest Sloth]

All I'm saying is a teacher, YMCA employee, etc... can lose their job for doing something that is not illegal, but a celebrity of some sort can keep their job after getting busted for commiting a major crime.What "debt" does a teacher owe? How can they repay their "debt?" Our society contradicts itself. Why is that some people in our society receive a type of forgive and forget treatment, where as other people in our society can not?

You mentioned your childhood hero, Lawrence Taylor, and how upset you were about his lifestyle. Hopefully, the majority of children, having an icon that performed a terrible act, today would have the same response as you did. How ever, there are going to be children who will not respond in the same manner you did. By allowing people like Michael Vick to return to the spotlight, it will have a negative effect on a number of children. A number of children will think it's ok to do something wrong, because they will have the idea that most actions have a forgive and forget response. That is terrible.

You cannot think of how you responded. You have to think of how some children will respond. If you're going to keep a teacher who performed an immoral act from keeping their job, you should treat anyone w/ some type of occupation, example being a football player, that receives attention from children the same way.

I want to point out the problem w/ steroids in our society, today. 33% of high school football players use steroids. You cannot tell me players from the NFL did not play a role in that. When a high school football player heres of how steroids helped so and so make it to the NFL, an illegal act by the way, there is a greater chance they will do the same. In my opinion, if a professional athlete is busted ONE time, he should be banned from whatever sport they are playing. A-Fraud should not be allowed to continue his career. He says he is sorry, but an apology will not cause the number of impressionable teenagers to not use steroids. A teenager will simply think if they use steroids for a short period of time, it will help them acheive their childhood dream. That is just WRONG!

To sum things up, all people should be treated the same. All actions, whether immoral or illegal, should placed on everyone, regardless of their occupation.

I will say this and I know it'll contradict a number of things I have written. I would not want or allow my children to be taught by a teacher who does not have a proper set of morals and values, but I would alo explain to them why a certain athlete should not be looked up to. Some acts would be crossig the line of what a parent should not discuss w/ their children, so another route of discussion would have to take place.

It just sickens me that Michael Vick could possibly be back in the NFL, and that there will be people who support him. At the same time, the people who support Michael Vick will not support a teacher who has improper morals and values.

[SwampD]

All I'm saying is a teacher, YMCA employee, etc... can lose their job for doing something that is not illegal, but a celebrity of some sort can keep their job after getting busted for commiting a major crime.What "debt" does a teacher owe? How can they repay their "debt?" Our society contradicts itself. Why is that some people in our society receive a type of forgive and forget treatment, where as other people in our society can not?

You mentioned your childhood hero, Lawrence Taylor, and how upset you were about his lifestyle. Hopefully, the majority of children, having an icon that performed a terrible act, today would have the same response as you did. How ever, there are going to be children who will not respond in the same manner you did. By allowing people like Michael Vick to return to the spotlight, it will have a negative effect on a number of children. A number of children will think it's ok to do something wrong, because they will have the idea that most actions have a forgive and forget response. That is terrible.

You cannot think of how you responded. You have to think of how some children will respond. If you're going to keep a teacher who performed an immoral act from keeping their job, you should treat anyone w/ some type of occupation, example being a football player, that receives attention from children the same way.

I want to point out the problem w/ steroids in our society, today. 33% of high school football players use steroids. You cannot tell me players from the NFL did not play a role in that. When a high school football player heres of how steroids helped so and so make it to the NFL, an illegal act by the way, there is a greater chance they will do the same. In my opinion, if a professional athlete is busted ONE time, he should be banned from whatever sport they are playing. A-Fraud should not be allowed to continue his career. He says he is sorry, but an apology will not cause the number of impressionable teenagers to not use steroids. A teenager will simply think if they use steroids for a short period of time, it will help them acheive their childhood dream. That is just WRONG!

To sum things up, all people should be treated the same. All actions, whether immoral or illegal, should placed on everyone, regardless of their occupation.

I will say this and I know it'll contradict a number of things I have written. I would not want or allow my children to be taught by a teacher who does not have a proper set of morals and values, but I would alo explain to them why a certain athlete should not be looked up to. Some acts would be crossig the line of what a parent should not discuss w/ their children, so another route of discussion would have to take place.

It just sickens me that Michael Vick could possibly be back in the NFL, and that there will be people who support him. At the same time, the people who support Michael Vick will not support a teacher who has improper morals and values.

What about Bertuzzi? Should he still be in the NHL?

[billsrcursed]

All I'm saying is a teacher, YMCA employee, etc... can lose their job for doing something that is not illegal, but a celebrity of some sort can keep their job after getting busted for commiting a major crime.What "debt" does a teacher owe? How can they repay their "debt?" Our society contradicts itself. Why is that some people in our society receive a type of forgive and forget treatment, where as other people in our society can not?

You mentioned your childhood hero, Lawrence Taylor, and how upset you were about his lifestyle. Hopefully, the majority of children, having an icon that performed a terrible act, today would have the same response as you did. How ever, there are going to be children who will not respond in the same manner you did. By allowing people like Michael Vick to return to the spotlight, it will have a negative effect on a number of children. A number of children will think it's ok to do something wrong, because they will have the idea that most actions have a forgive and forget response. That is terrible.

You cannot think of how you responded. You have to think of how some children will respond. If you're going to keep a teacher who performed an immoral act from keeping their job, you should treat anyone w/ some type of occupation, example being a football player, that receives attention from children the same way.

I want to point out the problem w/ steroids in our society, today. 33% of high school football players use steroids. You cannot tell me players from the NFL did not play a role in that. When a high school football player heres of how steroids helped so and so make it to the NFL, an illegal act by the way, there is a greater chance they will do the same. In my opinion, if a professional athlete is busted ONE time, he should be banned from whatever sport they are playing. A-Fraud should not be allowed to continue his career. He says he is sorry, but an apology will not cause the number of impressionable teenagers to not use steroids. A teenager will simply think if they use steroids for a short period of time, it will help them acheive their childhood dream. That is just WRONG!

To sum things up, all people should be treated the same. All actions, whether immoral or illegal, should placed on everyone, regardless of their occupation.

I will say this and I know it'll contradict a number of things I have written. I would not want or allow my children to be taught by a teacher who does not have a proper set of morals and values, but I would alo explain to them why a certain athlete should not be looked up to. Some acts would be crossig the line of what a parent should not discuss w/ their children, so another route of discussion would have to take place.

It just sickens me that Michael Vick could possibly be back in the NFL, and that there will be people who support him. At the same time, the people who support Michael Vick will not support a teacher who has improper morals and values.

 

 

I think I just realized where you and I differ......I would support a teacher being given a second chance, assuming the offense (you mentioned something NOT illegal) was in no way directly involving children. I never said I support Vick but not others. I'm more of a forgiveness guy and I'm open to people being given mutliple chances to redeem themselves, because frankly, none of us are perfect. There are obvious exceptions as to what these people should be allowed to do (I have no pitty for anyone who commits a crime against a child and they should not be allowed to see the light of day ever again) but aside from murder and crimes against children, I believe everyone deserves forgiveness.

 

Blaming pro athletes for children using steroids is, again, a puss-out parents and coaches like to use for not recognizing the OBVIOUS signs that your child is using. Yes, I'm sure they got the idea from pro athletes, but the fault lies with the child and the parents who don't recognize there's a problem, or, in some cases, allow their child to use.

 

When, and I say when because both my daughters will eventually make serious mistakes, my daughters mess up, I will be there for them not only to console, but to correct as well. I won't be blaming someone else for their wrong-doings. I stress ownership of your faults first and foremost, along with honesty and respect. I hoper others give my daughters the same second chances I encourage them to give to everyone else. It's like paying it forward.

[Guest Sloth]

I think I just realized where you and I differ......I would support a teacher being given a second chance, assuming the offense (you mentioned something NOT illegal) was in no way directly involving children. I never said I support Vick but not others. I'm more of a forgiveness guy and I'm open to people being given mutliple chances to redeem themselves, because frankly, none of us are perfect. There are obvious exceptions as to what these people should be allowed to do (I have no pitty for anyone who commits a crime against a child and they should not be allowed to see the light of day ever again) but aside from murder and crimes against children, I believe everyone deserves forgiveness.

 

Blaming pro athletes for children using steroids is, again, a puss-out parents and coaches like to use for not recognizing the OBVIOUS signs that your child is using. Yes, I'm sure they got the idea from pro athletes, but the fault lies with the child and the parents who don't recognize there's a problem, or, in some cases, allow their child to use.

 

When, and I say when because both my daughters will eventually make serious mistakes, my daughters mess up, I will be there for them not only to console, but to correct as well. I won't be blaming someone else for their wrong-doings. I stress ownership of your faults first and foremost, along with honesty and respect. I hoper others give my daughters the same second chances I encourage them to give to everyone else. It's like paying it forward.

 

That is what I have been trying to say the entire time. I am in complete support of a teacher receiving a second chance. What bothers me is that our society is willing to give some people, Michael Vick, second chances, but not others (a teacher doing something immoral.) That was the point I've been trying to get across. In most cases, I, too, am a forgiving person. That is why I'd be willing to give a teacher who commited an immoral act a second chance.

 

As a side note on the steroids, there will always be more than one reason of why a high school kid used them. Poor parenting, pressure from a coach, peer pressure, wanting Ohio State to recruit them, professional athletes they look up to, etc... These are just examples, and I gurantee more than one played a role in teen's choice to use steroids. There is never just one reason.