nfreeman Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 OK, so Colorado finished dead last in the WC, fired their GM and presumably will be looking to make some changes. 2 years ago they gave Smyth a 5-year, $31.5MM contract that is generally regarded as a debacle. Now he's got 3 years left: $6.5MM, $5.5MM and $4.5MM. He's 33 and won't turn 34 until February 2010. He had 26-33-59 last year in 77 games. He was the captain of the Oilers before being traded at the deadline to the Islanders. He plays a true blood-and-guts game. This is EXACTLY the kind of guy the Sabres are dying for. There's no way we are going to add a $6.5MM player next year without unloading some real salary as part of the deal. Colorado isn't going to take back $6.5MM in our bad contracts, but they will probably have to take back a decent amount, no matter who they trade with. If we could get him for Hecht or Tallinder, plus some combination of picks and prospects (like Gerbe or a #1 pick), I would do it in a heartbeat. Thoughts?
Chief Enabler Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 If we could get him for Hecht or Tallinder, plus some combination of picks and prospects (like Gerbe or a #1 pick), I would do it in a heartbeat. Thoughts? Tallinder? No. Being Colorado, they would want Chris Butler back; and hopefully some junk too. Would I dump Gerbe? sure along with many others. Namely Stafford and Pominville. Out of all the prospects to keep including Butler, I like Kennedy, Kostka, Weber & Enroth. Everyone else is open game. Does Smyth have the legs? I'm not sure; I honesty didnt follow COL outside of Stastny. But, in BUF he could have the last Who-rah! Will Ruff coach him in Canada? probably not. Self consensus; not sure thats the answer, but would crack the Sabres top six as an upgrade.
X. Benedict Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 OK, so Colorado finished dead last in the WC, fired their GM and presumably will be looking to make some changes. 2 years ago they gave Smyth a 5-year, $31.5MM contract that is generally regarded as a debacle. Now he's got 3 years left: $6.5MM, $5.5MM and $4.5MM. He's 33 and won't turn 34 until February 2010. He had 26-33-59 last year in 77 games. He was the captain of the Oilers before being traded at the deadline to the Islanders. He plays a true blood-and-guts game. This is EXACTLY the kind of guy the Sabres are dying for. There's no way we are going to add a $6.5MM player next year without unloading some real salary as part of the deal. Colorado isn't going to take back $6.5MM in our bad contracts, but they will probably have to take back a decent amount, no matter who they trade with. If we could get him for Hecht or Tallinder, plus some combination of picks and prospects (like Gerbe or a #1 pick), I would do it in a heartbeat. Thoughts? I would worry about his age mostly. Antropov is unrestricted......
nucci Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 Why do you guys think that other teams are just going to take dead weight off of our hands? I doubt there is a big market out there for Hecht or Tallinder.
X. Benedict Posted April 13, 2009 Report Posted April 13, 2009 Why do you guys think that other teams are just going to take dead weight off of our hands? I doubt there is a big market out there for Hecht or Tallinder. You never know....half of this board was praying for Darcy to sign John-Michael Liles as a UFA..... -19 this year.
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 OK, so Colorado finished dead last in the WC, fired their GM and presumably will be looking to make some changes. 2 years ago they gave Smyth a 5-year, $31.5MM contract that is generally regarded as a debacle. Now he's got 3 years left: $6.5MM, $5.5MM and $4.5MM. He's 33 and won't turn 34 until February 2010. He had 26-33-59 last year in 77 games. He was the captain of the Oilers before being traded at the deadline to the Islanders. He plays a true blood-and-guts game. This is EXACTLY the kind of guy the Sabres are dying for. There's no way we are going to add a $6.5MM player next year without unloading some real salary as part of the deal. Colorado isn't going to take back $6.5MM in our bad contracts, but they will probably have to take back a decent amount, no matter who they trade with. If we could get him for Hecht or Tallinder, plus some combination of picks and prospects (like Gerbe or a #1 pick), I would do it in a heartbeat. Thoughts? I like the idea. I would just change the title of the thread to 'one of the guys the Sabres could use.' This team is far from being a true contender. Sure a couple of moves may sneak them into eight if a few teams ahead of them falter. If this team ever intends to become a true playoff team and cup contender it starts with removing Regier and bringing in a replacement who can come in and blow up this roster. If Regier is back and all this team does in bring in a couple of players from Portland and a couple of third or fourth tier free agents, say hello to 6 out 8 years without the playoffs.
Chief Enabler Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 You never know....half of this board was praying for Darcy to sign John-Michael Liles as a UFA..... -19 this year. Still are...... :unsure:
nfreeman Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Posted April 14, 2009 I would worry about his age mostly. Antropov is unrestricted...... I agree on the age issue, but I think blood-and-guts veteran leaders who can score are rare and expensive. The Sabres aren't going to get one that doesn't have some kind of drawback. And they absolutely need one (or 2 or 3). Antropov is decent but he's not what they need. He's closer to Kotalik than he is to Smyth. Why do you guys think that other teams are just going to take dead weight off of our hands? I doubt there is a big market out there for Hecht or Tallinder. No one said there is a big market for them. What I did say was that Colorado isn't going to get someone to take Smyth's albatross contract off their hands without taking a bad one back in the deal. Since Hecht is younger, is a decent player and has a $3.5MM cap number, Colorado might view it as their best opportunity to rid themselves of Smyth's $6.25MM cap hit. I like the idea. I would just change the title of the thread to 'one of the guys the Sabres could use.' This team is far from being a true contender. Sure a couple of moves may sneak them into eight if a few teams ahead of them falter. If this team ever intends to become a true playoff team and cup contender it starts with removing Regier and bringing in a replacement who can come in and blow up this roster. If Regier is back and all this team does in bring in a couple of players from Portland and a couple of third or fourth tier free agents, say hello to 6 out 8 years without the playoffs. Well, the pendulum has swung all the way back, eh? The Sabres don't need to blow up the roster. They have a great goalie, quite a few talented skaters and an excellent coach. They need another 2 or 3 guys like Rivet, Drury and Smyth to lead the way, they need guys like Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Kaleta, Paille and MacArthur to continue to develop and mature, and they need ownership and management to stay on the same page and make better decisions.
FearTheReaper Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Well,adding Ryan Smyth to the brat pack is entirly fantasy. But what the hell,here's my view. He is exactly the type of player we crave more than anything. Hes a gritter form of Drury. He would be a great addition to our team. I could only imagine him in the blue and gold. On the 2nd line,the 2nd pp unit. Drawing blood,blocking shots,getting dirty. You know all the stuff Lindy wants but only gets out of about 7 players. We need to rebuild for next season,not for 2011. Smyth would be perfect for us. And who cares about the salary. TC and Chokin Jochen are cashing in as we speak. Get Ryan now,pay him for a couple years. Then dump him in free agency and start the #%^$#! cycle over again. Kinda like what we did with Drury,and what unfolded after his departure. The fans have suffered for 2 seasons now. We need to be a force again. And players like Smyth are who will make us competitive again. Colorado was interested in Max... :w00t: ...Tallinder needs to go.I would have no problem giving away a high pick and Hank for Smyth. Possibly even Gerbe,Tallinder and a second rounder. Colorado was interested in Max... Second scoring line: Smyth-Connnolly-Pominville Pure fantasy i suppose. They'll never bring him in here.
silvermike Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Ryan Smyth would be a great move if he wasn't so expensive. The Sabres really aren't going to be in a position this offseason to pick up much in the way of salary, and I'm guessing that if Colorado unloaded him, they'd be looking for cap relief, not a washout for worse talent. Maybe they could work a three way deal, where Colorado gets somebody else's picks/prospects, the Sabres get Smyth, and Tallinder/Hecht (say) go to that third team?
thesportsbuff Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 smyth overrated. the heart and soul of edmonton, but i wasnt impressed with him on nyi or colorado
jwcolour Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 smyth overrated. the heart and soul of edmonton, but i wasnt impressed with him on nyi or colorado If anyone plays like they are the heart and soul of any team... ..i'd go nuts. In any case, minus the pipe dream of getting Ryan smyth i'd like to see Spacek back. Probably our best defensemen other than CR(though people want to hate him) As far as drew... i'd like to see him again he has an assload of talent but there are so many FA's you can keep saying this about... im slammed/hammered. Goodday all.
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Well, the pendulum has swung all the way back, eh? The Sabres don't need to blow up the roster. They have a great goalie, quite a few talented skaters and an excellent coach. They need another 2 or 3 guys like Rivet, Drury and Smyth to lead the way, they need guys like Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Kaleta, Paille and MacArthur to continue to develop and mature, and they need ownership and management to stay on the same page and make better decisions. Miller is a good goalie, far from being great. He's not top five in the league and probably not top ten. They need more than 2-3 guys. Neither Paille or MacArthur have shown for any extended period of time that they have the desire to compete in the areas on the ice they need to to be successful. Kaleta is a nice story and he plays will a ton of energy. Lets not make him out to be anything other then what he is. He a 12th forward that the fans love. I love his game also. I just love it less when punks out and turtles. Stafford is a interesting topic. When he seems to want to he can be a very good player. He just doesn't seem to have the desire to go all out as often as he should. The roster does need to be blown up. The defense is a mess. You have Rivet as the veteran leader. He's not a top pairing blue-liner. He's the guy you stick the rookie with. No one would miss the rest of the so-called veterans back there. I like Spacek, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay on this team. And don't get me started on the rest of the forwards.
wonderbread Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 I really hope Spacek stays. He has been a decent preformer on the blueline. I am anxious to see Sekera and Butler develop into our top pairing eventually. With Weber coming up and Rivet back that leaves the team room to move one of the moron bros. Hopefully Hank gets the hook, at least I have seen Toni with an i hit some this year.
bob_sauve28 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 I really hope Spacek stays. He has been a decent preformer on the blueline. I am anxious to see Sekera and Butler develop into our top pairing eventually. With Weber coming up and Rivet back that leaves the team room to move one of the moron bros. Hopefully Hank gets the hook, at least I have seen Toni with an i hit some this year. Defense is where we need help, IMO. I also hope Spacek stays. Lydman is a really good player, hits, blocks shots, has a great backhander to clear the puck from deep in our zone, but he isn't a number 1 defenseman. Yet he plays against the number one opposing line every night. Hank just isn't getting it done. I don't know how long it will take for the kids (Butler and Sekera) to develop, but I bet its a few more years. And Roy, Vanek, Stafford and a few others are still years away from their prime. I'd try and sign Spacek and add another good to very good defensman if I could. There isn't a lot that can be done with this team, just improve it as much as you can within the budget and allow the young players already signed to develop and we might be real good in two years.
gg1 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 smyth overrated. the heart and soul of edmonton, but i wasnt impressed with him on nyi or colorado Really, you mean the guy who nearly singlehandledly drove Isles into the playoffs and gave the Presidents' Trophy winners a bigger battle than anyone could have imagined? Is there any doubt that the '07 Playoffs would have been vastly different if Darcy had parted with Stafford to get Smyth? ... At the time, keeping Stafford was a wise move.
nfreeman Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Posted April 14, 2009 Miller is a good goalie, far from being great. He's not top five in the league and probably not top ten. They need more than 2-3 guys. Neither Paille or MacArthur have shown for any extended period of time that they have the desire to compete in the areas on the ice they need to to be successful. Kaleta is a nice story and he plays will a ton of energy. Lets not make him out to be anything other then what he is. He a 12th forward that the fans love. I love his game also. I just love it less when punks out and turtles. Stafford is a interesting topic. When he seems to want to he can be a very good player. He just doesn't seem to have the desire to go all out as often as he should. The roster does need to be blown up. The defense is a mess. You have Rivet as the veteran leader. He's not a top pairing blue-liner. He's the guy you stick the rookie with. No one would miss the rest of the so-called veterans back there. I like Spacek, he would have to take a serious pay cut to stay on this team. And don't get me started on the rest of the forwards. We'll agree to disagree about Miller. To me he is unquestionably top 5. You are correct about Paille and MacArthur -- both are far too streaky (and I'd include Stafford in that category as well). Of course, Paille and Stafford have played less than 2.5 seasons in the NHL, and Mac has played less than 1.75. I think streakiness and periodic loss of desire/intensity/focus are hallmarks of young players, especially young players that don't have good leaders on their teams. Put those guys next to some hungry veterans who play with fire in the belly and an intense desire to do everything right, all the time, and those qualities can rub off and enhance the young guys' development. Let's look at a non-blown-up roster for next year that includes 2-3 new blood-and-guts types: Connolly-Pommer-Vanek -- this is a legit top NHL line Roy-Stafford-Smyth -- playing with Smyth will elevate Roy and Stafford's games Gaustad-Kaleta-new tough SOB forward Mair-MacArthur-Kennedy extra: Gerbe, Mancari (assumes Hecht and Paille are traded and Moore and Max leave as UFAs) Rivet-Butler Lydman-New tough SOB defenseman Sekera-Weber extra: Paetsch, Gragnani (assumes Tallinder is traded and Spacek leaves as UFA) I'd be pretty happy with that roster. It's not as good as the 2005-07 teams, but it ships out a few underperforming guys who've been around a while and brings in more toughness and intensity at key positions. It also ought to be workable within the budget. We'll see...
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 We'll agree to disagree about Miller. To me he is unquestionably top 5. You are correct about Paille and MacArthur -- both are far too streaky (and I'd include Stafford in that category as well). Of course, Paille and Stafford have played less than 2.5 seasons in the NHL, and Mac has played less than 1.75. I think streakiness and periodic loss of desire/intensity/focus are hallmarks of young players, especially young players that don't have good leaders on their teams. Put those guys next to some hungry veterans who play with fire in the belly and an intense desire to do everything right, all the time, and those qualities can rub off and enhance the young guys' development. Let's look at a non-blown-up roster for next year that includes 2-3 new blood-and-guts types: Connolly-Pommer-Vanek -- this is a legit top NHL line Roy-Stafford-Smyth -- playing with Smyth will elevate Roy and Stafford's games Gaustad-Kaleta-new tough SOB forward Mair-MacArthur-Kennedy extra: Gerbe, Mancari (assumes Hecht and Paille are traded and Moore and Max leave as UFAs) Rivet-Butler Lydman-New tough SOB defenseman Sekera-Weber extra: Paetsch, Gragnani (assumes Tallinder is traded and Spacek leaves as UFA) I'd be pretty happy with that roster. It's not as good as the 2005-07 teams, but it ships out a few underperforming guys who've been around a while and brings in more toughness and intensity at key positions. It also ought to be workable within the budget. We'll see... I am looking at your proposed roster and wonder where the toughness upfront is? Your top line has a lot of talent and less toughness than the Golden Girls. Who is going to protect the soft forwards? Gaustad? He seems more interested in being a hockey player than doing his job. Mair may want to, his body just limits what he can do. I like Smyth, he far from being the physical presence that will create room for teammates and keep opposing teams toughness in check. If you can throw in a Chris Neal/Darcey Tucker type into that mix you may have something. And why in the hell would you bring Lydman back. I guess you must enjoy killing penalties late in games with the lead. Lydman is the poster child for this teams stupidity and lack of hockey awareness.
nfreeman Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Posted April 14, 2009 I am looking at your proposed roster and wonder where the toughness upfront is? Your top line has a lot of talent and less toughness than the Golden Girls. Who is going to protect the soft forwards? Gaustad? He seems more interested in being a hockey player than doing his job. Mair may want to, his body just limits what he can do. I like Smyth, he far from being the physical presence that will create room for teammates and keep opposing teams toughness in check. If you can throw in a Chris Neal/Darcey Tucker type into that mix you may have something. And why in the hell would you bring Lydman back. I guess you must enjoy killing penalties late in games with the lead. Lydman is the poster child for this teams stupidity and lack of hockey awareness. Top lines don't typically feature bruisers -- look at the Bruins and the Red Wings. Guys like Ovechkin are quite rare. Vanek is big enough to create his own space in front and Connolly and Pommer are playmakers (and it seemed like Pommer was getting his mojo back by the end of the season on TC's line). On the 2nd line, Smyth and Stafford are both physical players. And while I thought Gaustad did a pretty good job in the hitting and intensity department, I agree with you that the new tough SOB I have penciled in for the 3rd line should be a Neal/Tucker type. As for Lydman, I think he's more than a little better than Tallinder and overall a pretty decent defenseman. I'm certainly not committed to him though -- if he can be moved and be replaced with a better player, I'm all for it. I just don't see them turning over 4 of the top 7 defense spots (since I'm assuming Spacek and Tallinder are already gone, in addition to Teppo).
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Top lines don't typically feature bruisers -- look at the Bruins and the Red Wings. Guys like Ovechkin are quite rare. Vanek is big enough to create his own space in front and Connolly and Pommer are playmakers (and it seemed like Pommer was getting his mojo back by the end of the season on TC's line). On the 2nd line, Smyth and Stafford are both physical players. And while I thought Gaustad did a pretty good job in the hitting and intensity department, I agree with you that the new tough SOB I have penciled in for the 3rd line should be a Neal/Tucker type. As for Lydman, I think he's more than a little better than Tallinder and overall a pretty decent defenseman. I'm certainly not committed to him though -- if he can be moved and be replaced with a better player, I'm all for it. I just don't see them turning over 4 of the top 7 defense spots (since I'm assuming Spacek and Tallinder are already gone, in addition to Teppo). The question is or should be for the Sabres, is there a player out there with a strong enough personality to change the dynamic of the locker room and force the remaining players into defending themselves and their teammates when the time comes. Was there anymore of a sickening site when Miller got run and no one did anything. How about Tallinder and Teppo standing there while the goalie gets nailed in the head with a elbow in the final game? And whoever gave Teppo the third star in that game should be embarrassed. Cowardice should never be rewarded.
freester Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 We'll agree to disagree about Miller. To me he is unquestionably top 5. You are correct about Paille and MacArthur -- both are far too streaky (and I'd include Stafford in that category as well). Of course, Paille and Stafford have played less than 2.5 seasons in the NHL, and Mac has played less than 1.75. I think streakiness and periodic loss of desire/intensity/focus are hallmarks of young players, especially young players that don't have good leaders on their teams. Put those guys next to some hungry veterans who play with fire in the belly and an intense desire to do everything right, all the time, and those qualities can rub off and enhance the young guys' development. Let's look at a non-blown-up roster for next year that includes 2-3 new blood-and-guts types: Connolly-Pommer-Vanek -- this is a legit top NHL line Roy-Stafford-Smyth -- playing with Smyth will elevate Roy and Stafford's games Gaustad-Kaleta-new tough SOB forward Mair-MacArthur-Kennedy extra: Gerbe, Mancari (assumes Hecht and Paille are traded and Moore and Max leave as UFAs) Rivet-Butler Lydman-New tough SOB defenseman Sekera-Weber extra: Paetsch, Gragnani (assumes Tallinder is traded and Spacek leaves as UFA) I'd be pretty happy with that roster. It's not as good as the 2005-07 teams, but it ships out a few underperforming guys who've been around a while and brings in more toughness and intensity at key positions. It also ought to be workable within the budget. We'll see... You lose all credibility with your comments about Miller being a top 5 goalie. You want us to spend big money on Smyth who is old. We should use that money to sign a young elite player like Bouwmeester.
gregkash Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 I think it starts with signing Bouwmeester. He is going to be expensive. But if we sign bouwmeester our defense is VERY solid. This will allow our skill players to play more of an offensive game. Which is what they're good at. Asking Derek Roy to be a Vezina winner is like asking an Elephant to do things mice do. It's not about effort, it's about ability. Derek Roy will never be able to man up on Vincent Lecalvier and shut him down. Not because he doesn't want to, or he isn't trying but because he's 5'10 and Vince is 6'4. We can't dump EVERYONE. We have a core of players, we have to make our system to their strengths and change what we can when we can. We're an offensive team, i don't understand why we're not playing more offensively. I think an addition of Bouwmeester solidifies the back end so much where the oppositions top 2 lines are gonna face Jay or Rivet on the backend. That's a tough assignment for any scorer. And if during that time we're able to break a few goals.. with that back end and Ryan Miller. Sounds good to me. I'm positively woody about the possibility of signing Gaborik. Like a Gaborik Connolly Pomminstein Line literally gets me to half mast, but I think if we're being smart about it, Bouwmeester is the more practical addition. Love Gaborik though.
carpandean Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 I'm positively woody about the possibility of signing Gaborik. Like a Gaborik Connolly Pominville Line literally gets me to half mast, but I think if we're being smart about it, Bouwmeester is the more practical addition. Love Gaborik though. It's only half mast because two out of three of those players only play half the time. As for Bouwmeester, trying to fit him in beyond next year (Tallinder and Lydman only have one year left on their inflated contracts, so even if you can get rid of them, it only helps next year), then you'd have to get rid of at least Hecht or Roy (each saves about $4 million.) However, even if you do that (I have no problem dropping Hecht, but who'd want him at that price?), that would likely put them right up at the cap next year. With any sort of internal budget, it's more likely that it would, instead, take trading away Pominville or Vanek.
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