deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 So this could lead to Mike Ramsey getting his first head coaching job. Or, even better for the Sabres, it could lead to Mike Ramsey coming back to Sabres! Of course it could lead to Mike Ramsey staying an assistant for the Wild and Lindy heading over there as head coach. :o What would bringing in Mike Ramsey change? The players are suddenly going to become smarter, tougher and care more because Mike Ramsey is the coach? Let's bring back Ted Nolan. He can threaten to bang their wives and girlfriends to get them to play harder. :wallbash:
SwampD Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 What would bringing in Mike Ramsey change? The players are suddenly going to become smarter, tougher and care more because Mike Ramsey is the coach? Let's bring back Ted Nolan. He can threaten to bang their wives and girlfriends to get them to play harder. :wallbash: It appears to be what has happened for Pittsburgh, Montreal, Chicago, Carolina, and the Rangers. All in the playoffs. Even Ottawa played better. Same players, new coach.
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 It appears to be what has happened for Pittsburgh, Montreal, Chicago, Carolina, and the Rangers. All in the playoffs. Even Ottawa played better. Same players, new coach. They also have more talent than the Sabres due. Take any of those new coaches and the Sabres still don't make the playoffs. Add Ruff to any of those teams and they are true Cup contenders. All of those teams were talented underachieving teams. If Ruff coached any of those teams from the beginning of they season they would be a top four seed in their respective conference.
SwampD Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 They also have more talent than the Sabres due. Take any of those new coaches and the Sabres still don't make the playoffs. Add Ruff to any of those teams and they are true Cup contenders. All of those teams were talented underachieving teams. If Ruff coached any of those teams from the beginning of they season they would be a top four seed in their respective conference. Blah, blah, blah. I've heard this so many times that it must be true, even though Ruff had a team with three number one lines on it and could not get it into the Finals. I guess we'll never find out either because it appears that he has a lifetime contract.
Stoner Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Blah, blah, blah. I've heard this so many times that it must be true, even though Ruff had a team with three number one lines on it and could not get it into the Finals. I guess we'll never find out either because it appears that he has a lifetime contract. He had The Dominator and got there once.
Stoner Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 They also have more talent than the Sabres due. Take any of those new coaches and the Sabres still don't make the playoffs. Add Ruff to any of those teams and they are true Cup contenders. All of those teams were talented underachieving teams. If Ruff coached any of those teams from the beginning of they season they would be a top four seed in their respective conference. Sounds like the Sabres to me. At least that's how Miller views them.
SwampD Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 He had The Dominator and got there once. That team got to the finals for one reason, Hasek. Not Ruff. Sounds like the Sabres to me. At least that's how Miller views them. :thumbsup:
X. Benedict Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 What would bringing in Mike Ramsey change? The players are suddenly going to become smarter, tougher and care more because Mike Ramsey is the coach? Let's bring back Ted Nolan. He can threaten to bang their wives and girlfriends to get them to play harder. :wallbash: Mike Ramsey......trap......Craig Ramsey.....trap.......hell even the Penguins in last years playoffs trapped..... special teams will win this Stanley Cup because the league hates 5x5 hockey.....
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Sounds like the Sabres to me. At least that's how Miller views them. It seems that Miller is rolling out the company line early this off-season. They didn't underachieve, considering the lack of talent, heart and toughness I would say this team overachieved.
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Blah, blah, blah. I've heard this so many times that it must be true, even though Ruff had a team with three number one lines on it and could not get it into the Finals. I guess we'll never find out either because it appears that he has a lifetime contract. Keep hoping you may get your wish. If the Sabres fire a Lindy this off season that same day I will start a thread about the #1 pick overall in the 2010 draft. Because that will be the only positive to come out of that move.
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Mike Ramsey......trap......Craig Ramsey.....trap.......hell even the Penguins in last years playoffs trapped.....special teams will win this Stanley Cup because the league hates 5x5 hockey..... This roster isn't smart enough or disciplined enough to play a trap system. If you plan on playing a trap you better have 6 new forwards and three new blue-liners ready to come in.
X. Benedict Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 This roster isn't smart enough or disciplined enough to play a trap system. If you plan on playing a trap you better have 6 new forwards and three new blue-liners ready to come in. They have to be smarter to trap?
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 They have to be smarter to trap? Yes. It's about maintaining the positioning on the ice. If four of the five guys are in good position and the fifth is off doing his own thing it creates huge holes. It's like that with any system. More so with defensive based systems. It's why the Sabres got killed 5 on 5 this year.
nobody Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Yes. It's about maintaining the positioning on the ice. If four of the five guys are in good position and the fifth is off doing his own thing it creates huge holes. It's like that with any system. More so with defensive based systems. It's why the Sabres got killed 5 on 5 this year. Mike Ramsey sure knows about teaching positioning. Not saying any of the below means anything but... 3 years as a Sabres assistant coach 97-98 - lost in conference finals (gave up 13 goals in 6 games) Only 2 regular players had a minus in +/- 98-99 - lost in finals (gave up 13 goals in 6 games) Only 1 player had a minus. 99-00 - lost in 1st round (gave up 14 goals in 5 games; only 9 in 1st 4) 4 players had a minus. 3 years after Mike Ramsey left. 00-01 - lost in 2nd round (gave up 17 goals in 7 games). 5 players had a minus. 01-02 - missed playoffs. 11 players had a minus. 02-03 - missed playoffs. 17 players had a minus.
nfreeman Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Mike Ramsey sure knows about teaching positioning.Not saying any of the below means anything but... 3 years as a Sabres assistant coach 97-98 - lost in conference finals (gave up 13 goals in 6 games) Only 2 regular players had a minus in +/- 98-99 - lost in finals (gave up 13 goals in 6 games) Only 1 player had a minus. 99-00 - lost in 1st round (gave up 14 goals in 5 games; only 9 in 1st 4) 4 players had a minus. 3 years after Mike Ramsey left. 00-01 - lost in 2nd round (gave up 17 goals in 7 games). 5 players had a minus. 01-02 - missed playoffs. 11 players had a minus. 02-03 - missed playoffs. 17 players had a minus. I think you omitted the fact that after '01 a certain goalie was no longer with the team.
wonderbread Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 I think you omitted the fact that after '01 a certain goalie was no longer with the team. wow those numbers are crazy. Good point Nfree.
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Mike Ramsey sure knows about teaching positioning.Not saying any of the below means anything but... 3 years as a Sabres assistant coach 97-98 - lost in conference finals (gave up 13 goals in 6 games) Only 2 regular players had a minus in +/- 98-99 - lost in finals (gave up 13 goals in 6 games) Only 1 player had a minus. 99-00 - lost in 1st round (gave up 14 goals in 5 games; only 9 in 1st 4) 4 players had a minus. 3 years after Mike Ramsey left. 00-01 - lost in 2nd round (gave up 17 goals in 7 games). 5 players had a minus. 01-02 - missed playoffs. 11 players had a minus. 02-03 - missed playoffs. 17 players had a minus. The Hasek issue aside. Look at the type of players the Sabres had then and compare to now. Again, if you want to play a trap with this team you are going to need to completely overhaul the roster. The Sabres don't have the forward depth and no where close to the defensemen needed to play that type of system effectively.
nobody Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 I think you omitted the fact that after '01 a certain goalie was no longer with the team. I did throw in a disclaimer. ;)
nobody Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 The Hasek issue aside. Look at the type of players the Sabres had then and compare to now. Again, if you want to play a trap with this team you are going to need to completely overhaul the roster. The Sabres don't have the forward depth and no where close to the defensemen needed to play that type of system effectively. I have stated elsewhere I'm in favor of a Red Wings model. But at the very least you need to have some exisitng players to take it to another level or step out of expectations to take on a new role. To do that you would probably need some change to coaching - even if it only with assistants.
X. Benedict Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Yes. It's about maintaining the positioning on the ice. If four of the five guys are in good position and the fifth is off doing his own thing it creates huge holes. It's like that with any system. More so with defensive based systems. It's why the Sabres got killed 5 on 5 this year. Killed wouldn't be the word. They were actually plus 7 5x5. I would think the PK would be more indicative of trap hockey.
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 Killed wouldn't be the word. They were actually plus 7 5x5. I would think the PK would be more indicative of trap hockey. They were +10 5x5 over the final three games which inflates their numbers. For the greater part of the season the special teams were the only reason they stayed in contention for the 8th spot.
SwampD Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 The Hasek issue aside. Look at the type of players the Sabres had then and compare to now. Again, if you want to play a trap with this team you are going to need to completely overhaul the roster. The Sabres don't have the forward depth and no where close to the defensemen needed to play that type of system effectively. This is crap. Any player in the NHL has the skills to play whatever system his coach tells him to play, if he's properly motivated. I find it really funny that you think the Sabres are on this island in terms of the type of players they have. Every player on every team has been playing since they were 2 and they all came through the same system to get there. The players on the Sabres are exactly like every other player on every other team in the NHL. The difference between winning and losing is so slight that it only takes a tiny change to turn things around(like a new coach or one or two players).
deluca67 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 This is crap. Any player in the NHL has the skills to play whatever system his coach tells him to play, if he's properly motivated. I find it really funny that you think the Sabres are on this island in terms of the type of players they have. Every player on every team has been playing since they were 2 and they all came through the same system to get there. The players on the Sabres are exactly like every other player on every other team in the NHL. The difference between winning and losing is so slight that it only takes a tiny change to turn things around(like a new coach or one or two players). How many players on the Sabres current roster would you think the Devils would covert? 1 or maybe two? I couldn't even guess who they may be. The Devils are a team based on a system. They go out and target specific players to fit their system. I can't imagine what fantasy land you live in where are players are created equal. This isn't NHL '09. Not all players can play in all systems and be successful. It's why player get released and traded. If you truly think a new coach can come in and do more with this roster than Lindy Ruff has I hope you get a chance to see. When this team is holding down the bottom spot in the conference we will see who was right.
X. Benedict Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 How many players on the Sabres current roster would you think the Devils would covert? 1 or maybe two? I couldn't even guess who they may be. The Devils are a team based on a system. They go out and target specific players to fit their system. I can't imagine what fantasy land you live in where are players are created equal. This isn't NHL '09. Not all players can play in all systems and be successful. It's why player get released and traded. If you truly think a new coach can come in and do more with this roster than Lindy Ruff has I hope you get a chance to see. When this team is holding down the bottom spot in the conference we will see who was right. Actually I don't really agree.... The Devils are really what is wrong with the league IMO. They are one of the only teams left that still play to tie. They trap. They average maybe 20-25 overtime games a year, content with the point. They could have Malkin and Ovechkin on that team, and Lamierello would have them playing for the tie. I actually have long suspected that Lamierello would love to get Drew Stafford. (add another North Dakota player) Roy, Stafford, Pomminstein, Gaustad, Moore, Hecht, Connolly could all play NJ's neutral zone trap......yawn.....just stop forechecking. If anything, it is kind of like a 2-3 zone in basketball.....you can hide people in the zone that have some middling skills. Zergie Brylin probably couldn't have played anywhere esle all those years. Just my take.
SwampD Posted April 14, 2009 Report Posted April 14, 2009 How many players on the Sabres current roster would you think the Devils would covert? 1 or maybe two? I couldn't even guess who they may be. The Devils are a team based on a system. They go out and target specific players to fit their system. I can't imagine what fantasy land you live in where are players are created equal. This isn't NHL '09. Not all players can play in all systems and be successful. It's why player get released and traded. If you truly think a new coach can come in and do more with this roster than Lindy Ruff has I hope you get a chance to see. When this team is holding down the bottom spot in the conference we will see who was right. I'll say it again-Any player in the NHL has the skills to play whatever system his coach tells him to play, if he's properly motivated. It's not that the Sabres don't play a system. It's that the Devil's system is better. If Lindy has put up with getting the type of players that, as you say were handed to him, for over a decade, then what does that say about his character? Maybe he is as soft as you say his players are. For better or worse I'm ready for a change(couldn't be much worse). I like Ruff enough to let him go.
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