The Sabres need to trade one of their top forwards...

[LabattBlue]

I really believe that the Sabres need to trade one of their top forwards(Roy, Vanek, Pominville, Connolly or Stafford) in an attempt to "wake up" the others. This is above and beyond trying to deal Hecht and Tallinder, which is a given.

 

I don't want to see a Joe Thornton type trade where you get quantity for quality, but rather a 1 for 1 swap. Maybe you get less offense, but more leadership, grit or experience in return. Maybe you swap one of these guys along with a pick for a true top pair defenseman.

 

I don't know what the perfect answer is, but the status quo is just not working. In a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs and you miss the cut two years in a row, something has to give.

[R_Dudley]

I agree. I said it early in the season(fall) when I first called out the brat pack.

 

A team of good buddies hardly ever wins anything but has lots to talk about at the bar after.

 

They need to send a message and they need to instill some new attitude. It aint going to happen unless some very noticeable changes are made to change the team personaility.

[CallawaySabres]

I really believe that the Sabres need to trade one of their top forwards(Roy, Vanek, Pominville, Connolly or Stafford) in an attempt to "wake up" the others. This is above and beyond trying to deal Hecht and Tallinder, which is a given.

 

I don't want to see a Joe Thornton type trade where you get quantity for quality, but rather a 1 for 1 swap. Maybe you get less offense, but more leadership, grit or experience in return. Maybe you swap one of these guys along with a pick for a true top pair defenseman.

 

I don't know what the perfect answer is, but the status quo is just not working. In a league where more than half the teams make the playoffs and you miss the cut two years in a row, something has to give.

 

I still say "why one"? Get rid of Stafford, Roy AND Pomminstein. You want a change, make a real change. The attitude on this team SUCKS

[NowDoYouBelieve]

I still say "why one"? Get rid of Stafford, Roy AND Pomminstein. You want a change, make a real change. The attitude on this team SUCKS

 

Yeah, let's trade away our two biggest offensive producers and our best young talent! You should be GM.

 

By the way, how do you even know what their attitude is like? Do you talk to them? I assume you know them just as well as I do (almost exclusively from watching interviews) and heck, their attitude seems fine to me.

 

Let's say we trade them and get similar or less value from the guys we end up with in return. You'll just complain about them not having grit, determination, and attitude too. Guess what? Not everyone on the team can be like Gaustad or Kaleta. That's why those guys are around. They're niche players. You may be able to cheer for a team with 20 Gaustads, but that team isn't winning anything.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I would LOVE IT if we could get a gritty player who's also a scoring threat. I'd dance in the streets if we somehow got our hands on somebody like Jarome Iginla. But til then, we have to work with what we have and the 3 guys you mention are all on the list of our best 5 skaters. Trading them all away might make us the worst offensive team in the NHL and I don't think that's an exaggeration.

[CallawaySabres]

Yeah, let's trade away our two biggest offensive producers and our best young talent! You should be GM.

 

By the way, how do you even know what their attitude is like? Do you talk to them? I assume you know them just as well as I do (almost exclusively from watching interviews) and heck, their attitude seems fine to me.

 

Let's say we trade them and get similar or less value from the guys we end up with in return. You'll just complain about them not having grit, determination, and attitude too. Guess what? Not everyone on the team can be like Gaustad or Kaleta. That's why those guys are around. They're niche players. You may be able to cheer for a team with 20 Gaustads, but that team isn't winning anything.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I would LOVE IT if we could get a gritty player who's also a scoring threat. I'd dance in the streets if we somehow got our hands on somebody like Jarome Iginla. But til then, we have to work with what we have and the 3 guys you mention are all on the list of our best 5 skaters. Trading them all away might make us the worst offensive team in the NHL and I don't think that's an exaggeration.

 

Hey, if you want to go on like business as usual, that is fine. Something is VERY wrong with this team. What has this firepower done in the last 2 years. I would be MORE than happy to give up offense to add some more D and physical presence. They are going to have to give up some popular names if you want anything in return.

 

Oh, and as far as their attitude, I think I have a pretty good idea of what they are like when I hear things like "maybe we tried to make the pretty pass in front of the home crowd" and "I think they wanted more than we did" and " they played with more desparation" and "you can't play 20 or 40 minutes and expect to win". I have heard it a thousand times over the past two years and enough is enough.

[LabattBlue]

I still say "why one"? Get rid of Stafford, Roy AND Pomminstein. You want a change, make a real change. The attitude on this team SUCKS

As much as I said in my "Sabre for Life" post that I don't like any of them that much to say I never want to see them in another teams colors, I'm trying to be realistic here. There is NO way they are shipping out more than 1 of the top 5 forwards in the off-season especially if DR is still here, but I don't see it getting that extreme even with a new GM in place.

[...]

Yeah, let's trade away our two biggest offensive producers and our best young talent! You should be GM.

 

By the way, how do you even know what their attitude is like? Do you talk to them? I assume you know them just as well as I do (almost exclusively from watching interviews) and heck, their attitude seems fine to me.

 

Let's say we trade them and get similar or less value from the guys we end up with in return. You'll just complain about them not having grit, determination, and attitude too. Guess what? Not everyone on the team can be like Gaustad or Kaleta. That's why those guys are around. They're niche players. You may be able to cheer for a team with 20 Gaustads, but that team isn't winning anything.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I would LOVE IT if we could get a gritty player who's also a scoring threat. I'd dance in the streets if we somehow got our hands on somebody like Jarome Iginla. But til then, we have to work with what we have and the 3 guys you mention are all on the list of our best 5 skaters. Trading them all away might make us the worst offensive team in the NHL and I don't think that's an exaggeration.

 

 

Their attitude is shown on the ice. And we have clues to it thanks to player interviews. When you look at the bottom-feeding teams as "easy" and go into your games with that attitude, then attitude is certainly a problem.

 

It's pretty clear that the offense as it's constituted now is not getting the job done. I would put Roy and Stafford up. Those two seem to have the worst attitude of the bunch.

 

I hate to say it after ragging on him all season, but it looked as though Pominville was making an effort to "stand up" during the last stretch here. I have to give him some credit for trying to break out of his slump, and for at least having a humble attitude. So, along with Vanek and Connolly, I think he should stick around (not that anyone would want him for the price anyway).

 

I'd say move Hecht, but, who would want him?

[macsabre]

Most of us have been frustrated with this team not playing to their capability. Way too many games playing only 1 period out of three. Taking the easy road all too many times. I am over, "lets pull out the gun and start shooting philosophy". We need to add talent that has leadership capability. Vanek is an "A" player but he seems to lack in the personality dept. He seems to be more of a loner than a leader. I think we need to add a big tough quality center that is a leader. I won't mention names but we lost a couple of leaders a few years ago. I am not saying to add these player by subtracting our best players. It would also be a good time to add a tough quality defencemen. If we add these player we will be a contenter.

[Barnabov]

Trading someone is the only way they're going to get a new lineup and clearly that's needed (know we're all upset about not making the playoffs but the current makeup doesn't seem to have what it takes to go very deep even if they'd made the 8th slot).

 

Looking at nhlnumbers.com, many players are already resigned for next year:

 

Vanek - Roy

Hecht - Connolly - Pominville

Paille - Gaustad

Mair - Kaleta

 

If you drop Gerbe & maybe Kennedy into the mix & resign RFAs Stafford and MacArthur & maybe UFA Ellis, then you have a full complement of Forwards.

 

The Defense is also stacked:

 

Lydman & Tallinder are both under contract for next season same goes for

Rivet, Butler, Weber & Paetsch. Sekera is obviously going to be resigned making for 7 D - maybe Spacek will come back too but I doubt Numinnen.

 

Conclusion: Not many changes can be made to the lineup without trading away some under contract or RFA players.

[nobody]

Maybe you get less offense

 

That's what the team needs - even less offense!

 

But I agree that some trades need to be made. The team needs consistant players. They will continue to go nowhere when half the team on any given night is in a prolonged scoring slump.

[darksabre]

Trade Pomminstein. I am going to beat this drum until everyone is tired of hearing it.

[LabattBlue]

That's what the team needs - even less offense!

 

But I agree that some trades need to be made. The team needs consistant players. They will continue to go nowhere when half the team on any given night is in a prolonged scoring slump.

The Sabres are 13th in goals scored. You make it sound like they are in the bottom 5 in the league. There are plenty of playoff teams below us in that category.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

If the price is right, Stafford, Pommers and Roy are worth trading............... :beer:

[nobody]

The Sabres are 13th in goals scored. You make it sound like they are in the bottom 5 in the league. There are plenty of playoff teams below us in that category.

 

 

I have no desire to go determine which playoff bound teams have less scoring. But that is why I brought up the word "consistency" (even though I spelled it wrong last post :blush: ). Adding up the total at the end of the year is completely meaningless. All that matters is they get one more goal in each game then the opponent. But in a bunch of those games that might mean that they need to get 4 goals since the team is giving up 3.

 

I really believe in the Detroit system style - #1 top shelf D, #2 a few key top scorers and the rest consistent scorers, #3 cheaper decent enough goaltending.

[VansTheMans]

Honestly, the trade value for Connolly right now is high. Now would be the ideal time to ship him out. For Connolly however, instead of doing an offensive swap(I dont see many teams giving up a offensive talent for liability TC), it may be better to trade him for a solid defensive blueliner after modifying our blueline (i.e. trading Tallinder and/or letting Spacek walk). I still like the idea of shipping Connolly to Columbus for Rostislav Klesla. They need a center for Rick Nash, we need a gritty hard hitting dman. It works.

 

Stafford should also be traded. His tendency to disappear for 10 game stretches at a time only hurts the team. He could fetch us a decent veteran offensive forward via trade, or we could always dump him for picks.

 

To replace the offensive gap after losing Connolly(for a defensive blueliner) and Stafford(for picks), we would be in a good position to sign a impact player in the UFA market.

 

I think the Carolina game really showed how the Sabres need to organize their offense in order to win; 2 talented scoring lines, 2 gritty grind lines. The Brian Burke model of hockey. If you aren't a gritty player, then you better be skilled enough to play in the top two lines. If you aren't, you're wasting a valuable roster spot.

 

I loved seeing Paetsch and Ellis up last night. Those are two hungry players that will go out and give it their all along the boards. I wouldn't mind seeing those two stay up (at least until Kaleta returns). The lines of Goose Moore Mair, Ellis Paetsch Paille provided excellent, excellent grinding play. Modeling the bottom two lines in that fashion should become the standard model the Sabres use against Boston and for next season.

[darksabre]

Honestly, the trade value for Connolly right now is high. Now would be the ideal time to ship him out. For Connolly however, instead of doing an offensive swap(I dont see many teams giving up a offensive talent for liability TC), it may be better to trade him for a solid defensive blueliner after modifying our blueline (i.e. trading Tallinder and/or letting Spacek walk). I still like the idea of shipping Connolly to Columbus for Rostislav Klesla. They need a center for Rick Nash, we need a gritty hard hitting dman. It works.

 

Stafford should also be traded. His tendency to disappear for 10 game stretches at a time only hurts the team. He could fetch us a decent veteran offensive forward via trade, or we could always dump him for picks.

 

To replace the offensive gap after losing Connolly(for a defensive blueliner) and Stafford(for picks), we would be in a good position to sign a impact player in the UFA market.

 

I think the Carolina game really showed how the Sabres need to organize their offense in order to win; 2 talented scoring lines, 2 gritty grind lines. The Brian Burke model of hockey. If you aren't a gritty player, then you better be skilled enough to play in the top two lines. If you aren't, you're wasting a valuable roster spot.

I loved seeing Paetsch and Ellis up last night. Those are two hungry players that will go out and give it their all along the boards. I wouldn't mind seeing those two stay up (at least until Kaleta returns). The lines of Goose Moore Mair, Ellis Paetsch Paille provided excellent, excellent grinding play. Modeling the bottom two lines in that fashion should become the standard model the Sabres use against Boston and for next season.

 

You might be relatively new here, but man do I love almost everything you post. You've got the right view of this sport.

[SwampD]

If the past has taught me anything, it's to not expect any earth shattering deals in the off-season. All Darcy has ever done is a bunch of seemingly lateral trades that he hopes work out. When we got Drury he wasn't the superstar he is today. He was only a 3rd(maybe 4th...maybe 5th?) line center on the Avs. And Briere was just another underachieving forward for Phoenix that happened to get it together as a Sabre.

 

I'm expecting essentially this same team next year. That's why....(yep, I'll say it)...I wouldn't mind to see a different coach.

[CallawaySabres]

Honestly, the trade value for Connolly right now is high. Now would be the ideal time to ship him out. For Connolly however, instead of doing an offensive swap(I dont see many teams giving up a offensive talent for liability TC), it may be better to trade him for a solid defensive blueliner after modifying our blueline (i.e. trading Tallinder and/or letting Spacek walk). I still like the idea of shipping Connolly to Columbus for Rostislav Klesla. They need a center for Rick Nash, we need a gritty hard hitting dman. It works.

 

Stafford should also be traded. His tendency to disappear for 10 game stretches at a time only hurts the team. He could fetch us a decent veteran offensive forward via trade, or we could always dump him for picks.

 

To replace the offensive gap after losing Connolly(for a defensive blueliner) and Stafford(for picks), we would be in a good position to sign a impact player in the UFA market.

 

I think the Carolina game really showed how the Sabres need to organize their offense in order to win; 2 talented scoring lines, 2 gritty grind lines. The Brian Burke model of hockey. If you aren't a gritty player, then you better be skilled enough to play in the top two lines. If you aren't, you're wasting a valuable roster spot.

 

I loved seeing Paetsch and Ellis up last night. Those are two hungry players that will go out and give it their all along the boards. I wouldn't mind seeing those two stay up (at least until Kaleta returns). The lines of Goose Moore Mair, Ellis Paetsch Paille provided excellent, excellent grinding play. Modeling the bottom two lines in that fashion should become the standard model the Sabres use against Boston and for next season.

 

 

Totally agree and this is where you have to place a lot of the blame on Ruff. Great Coach but the second to last game of the season....come on. (Actuall, I remember he tried this last week for a game too)

[Chief Enabler]

You might be relatively new here, but man do I love almost everything you post. You've got the right view of this sport.

I agree with that post as well.

 

In terms of the Anaheim Burke model; in comes back to size for me, and playing your size. The NHL is big guys, you look at NYR picking up Nik Antropov, big forward for playoff time. Sabres would have a hell of a time knocking him off the puck not because he is overly talented, but just size. Tomas Holmstrom, Franzen in front of the net is tough for the Sabres.

 

I guess my response to trading forwards is just to start weeding out some key components like Pominville & Stafford for some bigger frames who can setup shop down low. Also, have some defense the can be bruisers, but still get the puck on net from the line. :blush:

 

Some attitude would be nice too.

[PotentPowerPlay22]

In terms of the Anaheim Burke model; in comes back to size for me, and playing your size. The NHL is big guys, you look at NYR picking up Nik Antropov, big forward for playoff time. Sabres would have a hell of a time knocking him off the puck not because he is overly talented, but just size. Tomas Holmstrom, Franzen in front of the net is tough for the Sabres.

 

I guess my response to trading forwards is just to start weeding out some key components like Pominville & Stafford for some bigger frames who can setup shop down low. Also, have some defense the can be bruisers, but still get the puck on net from the line. :blush:

 

Some attitude would be nice too.

 

 

The bottom line: the current Sabres are not good enough! The Sabres are too soft and small to compete in the "new NHL". The rule changes were supposed to help the small skating teams, but that idea lasted about 3 or 4 months. Size, toughness and grit is in fashion now and the game is played along the boards 80% of the time. I agree 100% the Sabres need to get bigger and tougher.

 

Where does that leave all the Sabres who play small? Connolly is a porcelain tea cup. Pominville, Hecht, and Stafford play small. Roy is small.

The defense doesn't scare any opposing forwards going to the net or into the corners.

 

Changes have to be made. Connolly 2 more years for $9 million? Ridiculous!

[spndnchz]

Trade Pomminstein. I am going to beat this drum until everyone is tired of hearing it.

Weren't U the one saying "Good! Now all the debbie downers around here can shut the hell up! " when they signed him early? Live by the sword die by the sword. Sheath thy weapon.

 

Tell you one thing, I'll be pissed if Detroit signs Franzen for the same or less than Pommer. I'd love to see Franzen on this team. 28 years old, played with the big boys in Detroit, I think he's like 6'-3" and 220?

[darksabre]

Weren't U the one saying "Good! Now all the debbie downers around here can shut the hell up! " when they signed him early? Live by the sword die by the sword. Sheath thy weapon.

 

Tell you one thing, I'll be pissed if Detroit signs Franzen for the same or less than Pommer. I'd love to see Franzen on this team. 28 years old, played with the big boys in Detroit, I think he's like 6'-3" and 220?

 

I definitely said that. Right here: http://forums.sabrespace.com/index.php?sho...mp;#entry110625

 

That Aud Smell actually had a great response to my comment. We were all happy about the Pomminstein signing in the offseason. thanes16 even said he felt Stafford was going to have a good season! Getting the Pomminstein deal done early was a huge morale boost for a discontent fan base after a bad 07-08 season. We believed that locking up Miller and Pommers was going to lead to a season of potential.

 

Unfortunately things didn't pan out like we hoped and the true colors of this team's core players came through. Pomminstein's productivity was not terrible, but it is my feelings with regard to his mental attitude which bother me greatly. A signing which should have been great and brought a lot of excitement and hope to this team is starting to look like a very bad decision.

 

Trade Jason Pomminstein. *bang bang bang*

[el_Polako]

Damn man, i see all these threads about this player and that player... first and foremost i'd get rid of Ruff. Than let the new guy make the decision on WTF to do with his players. It's been fun but he's got to go. I mean teams worse than us have dumped their coaches, teams better than us have dumped their coaches, so why can't the Sabres?

 

The Sabres don't really have a lot of scrubs, so instead of worrying about dumping half the team i would get rid of the guy that is suppose to coach em. Yup, bye bye Ruff.

[VansTheMans]

Honestly, I'd keep Pommers over Roy, Stafford or Connolly. Why? Work ethic. He may have struggled in the goal scoring department this year, but no one can deny his work ethic. That is why you never saw him on the bench.

 

He continues to develop as a player both in terms of skill AND more importantly in character. He keeps his head up, and his nose to the grindstone. He isn't afraid to work along side the boards, isn't shy to admit when he is at fault and he plays a straight, simple honest two way game.

 

While we may fault Pommers for his lack of production this year, I can't fault him for his attitude. Attitude can go a long way, and on a team where attitude is cited as one of the biggest problems, it wouldn't make sense to trade Pommers before one of the other top forwards.

 

This kid is worth holding onto.

[SwampD]

Honestly, I'd keep Pommers over Roy, Stafford or Connolly. Why? Work ethic. He may have struggled in the goal scoring department this year, but no one can deny his work ethic. That is why you never saw him on the bench.

 

He continues to develop as a player both in terms of skill AND more importantly in character. He keeps his head up, and his nose to the grindstone. He isn't afraid to work along side the boards, isn't shy to admit when he is at fault and he plays a straight, simple honest two way game.

 

While we may fault Pommers for his lack of production this year, I can't fault him for his attitude. Attitude can go a long way, and on a team where attitude is cited as one of the biggest problems, it wouldn't make sense to trade Pommers before one of the other top forwards.

 

This kid is worth holding onto.

Any credibility you have been gaining just went bye-bye with that statement. ;)

 

Roy never floats. Pomminstein does... a lot.

 

And it's a shame that he has to admit fault as often as he does.