GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[tom webster]

Proven huh? Steelers play man-to-man. Pretty sure the Giants did too. That's just the last 2 Super Bowl winners. I don't feel like going back any further.

 

I'm not saying they should never peel off and help out. But hockey is different in that, more than any other sport, you HAVE to have the other teammates to win. Passing is everything. It's not like basketball where one guy makes all the moves and the other four just watch and hopefully get a rebound. That's what everyone here has been complaining about Roy and Max for forever. More goals are scored with great passing opening up a scoring chance than one guy deking his way through an entire defense and scoring.

 

If all five guys are just going to flock to the puck on D then we might as well be watching a bunch of drunks playing broomball.

 

Interesting that you didn't want to go back one more year, however, I don't want this to go way off point, But to call Dick Lebeau's zone blitzing defense man to man is the epitome of over simplification.

Anyway, no matter what the coaching strategy is, in my opinion this team can be summed up in a few bullet points;

1) careless or lazy mistakes leading to a couple of untimely goals

2) mentally weak and unable to deal with adversity

3) spineless when the pressure is on

4) their best players keep coming up short at crunch time.

 

As Marv Levy once said, and I paraphrase, they are so close to being good enough, but those couple of wins are really a huge difference.

[carpandean]

As for Roy, the fact remains that until he proves otherwise, he continues to come up short ( no pun intended) when they need him most. Until he buries one he will be the guy who flourishes when the pressure is off only to disappear when the pressure re-appears.

He did have 20 points in the last 12 games last year and leads the team with 9 game winners this year, including one of (I believe) only two OT winners by the team.

 

For some reason, the only player on the team that really seems clutch is Clarke MacArthur. He disappears when the pressure is off (mid-season on the third line), but when he's placed in a more important role (early this year) or when the season is on the line (lately), he does seem to score really timely goals. Weird. :huh:

[SwampD]

Interesting that you didn't want to go back one more year, however, I don't want this to go way off point, But to call Dick Lebeau's zone blitzing defense man to man is the epitome of over simplification.

Anyway, no matter what the coaching strategy is, in my opinion this team can be summed up in a few bullet points;

1) careless or lazy mistakes leading to a couple of untimely goals

2) mentally weak and unable to deal with adversity

3) spineless when the pressure is on

4) their best players keep coming up short at crunch time.

I disagree. We had the talent to beat Carolina. IMO Ruff was outcoached. Strategy wise, nothing has changed since that time. We have the same issues as we had in that series, only those issues are showing up against teams out of the playoffs now, instead of SC finalists.

Coaching can fix alot on that list of yours. You can't get rid of the entire team. I'm willing to see what a different coach could do. Might be better...couldn't be much worse.

[tom webster]

I disagree. We had the talent to beat Carolina. IMO Ruff was outcoached. Strategy wise, nothing has changed since that time. We have the same issues as we had in that series, only those issues are showing up against teams out of the playoffs now, instead of SC finalists.

Coaching can fix alot on that list of yours. You can't get rid of the entire team. I'm willing to see what a different coach could do. Might be better...couldn't be much worse.

 

I would not rule out the possibility that a new coach could make a difference. However, it could be a lot worse especially if the same people are in charge of acquiring the talent. A coach doesn't help Roy hit the net or stop his defensemen from clearing the puck into the crowd during the third period of game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals. Any time you want to rehash the entire series from that year let me know but to blame it on coaching is a joke. The series went the full 7 and they were up heading into the third period so they must have been doing something right.

[SwampD]

I would not rule out the possibility that a new coach could make a difference. However, it could be a lot worse especially if the same people are in charge of acquiring the talent. A coach doesn't help Roy hit the net or stop his defensemen from clearing the puck into the crowd during the third period of game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals. Any time you want to rehash the entire series from that year let me know but to blame it on coaching is a joke. The series went the full 7 and they were up heading into the third period so they must have been doing something right.

I just don't know how much more talent you think a different FO could put on one team. I know you wish we had all those guys back from '05-'07, but that was just unrealistic and we didn't win it all with them on the team anyway.

 

We don't really have to keep going back and forth on this. My feelings on this are well documented and they haven't changed since the lockout.(JSYK, I was complaining about this even when they were winning)

 

So on to tonight and Hope Springs Eternal.

[tom webster]

I just don't know how much more talent you think a different FO could put on one team. I know you wish we had all those guys back from '05-'07, but that was just unrealistic and we didn't win it all with them on the team anyway.

 

We don't really have to keep going back and forth on this. My feelings on this are well documented and they haven't changed since the lockout.(JSYK, I was complaining about this even when they were winning)

 

So on to tonight and Hope Springs Eternal.

 

I agree that there is no need to go back and forth as both of us have stated our opinions but I will leave you with an answer to your question. A true number one center and number one defensemen would be nice. TG, LQ and DR have saddled themselves with overpaid second line talent and this league has evolved into a star league. Paying guys like Hecht 3.8 million and Gaustad 2.3 is nice but unless Roy develops into a consistent number one center and TC stays healthy and Sekera, Butler and Myers all realize this boards belief of their true potential, they will always be a franchise that settles for less then the best.

 

All that being said, I will keep holding out hope for a 4 game win streak and that Danny and his Flyers do us a favor and knock off both Florida and the Rangers this week.

[carpandean]

Roy develops into a consistent number one center and TC stays healthy

Again, raises that question: who is supposed to be the #1 center. I hope that if the Sabres were willing to give Timmy $4.5 million, despite his injury history, that they expect that he will be that guy. Obviously, Roy probably would have gotten more if he signed right now, but he's missed just 11 games since the lockout. With what Timmy has missed, I would have to estimate that they believe he is a $6 million+ center without the injury history. That's a #1 guy. I guess it goes back to your point and is part of the problem that I had with re-signing Timmy; we have two #2 centers and no clear #1. Maybe Timmy, if he can stay healthy, will turn out to be that guy (hopefully, Goose and Moore can give him lessons in taking faceoffs), but he's not there yet. It's possible that Derek will improve, but most of us would probably agree that he's really just a #2. That means, not only are we counting on Timmy to stay healthy in order to have two scoring-line centers, but also to have a #1 center, period.