I'll say it: Connolly is twice as good as Roy.

[nfreeman]

I was ready to throw Roy off the team after he took that effing penalty with 2 minutes left in regulation. Losing the puck in the offensive zone, getting PO'd and lazy, and tackling the defenseman 190 feet from out net? With the season on the line? Are you effing kidding me? Would Drury EVER have done that, in a million years? Would Briere? Of course not.

 

Roy personifies everything that is wrong with this team. He's talented and he knows how to play hockey, but he's always taking shortcuts. He'll make nice plays on the backcheck, but then he'll blow it off a couple of times and his man will score. His mediocre games well outnumber the games in which he plays to his potential. He's like an overrated NBA player who "puts up numbers" on a bad team but never wins anything. He's not willing to bear down and do what it takes to win.

 

I exaggerated a bit in the sub-heading of this thread, but only a bit. I wouldn't trade Roy for Briere at Briere's current contract -- but if the dollars were even, I'd do it in a second. I think I probably would trade Roy for Drury at Drury's current contract, even though he's way overpaid, just because Drury is what this team is dying for. The other guys (like, say, Roy's linemates, Stafford and Vanek) need a positive veteran influence. They need to understand that every shift in an NHL game is the chance of a lifetime, and that they need to make the absolute most of the opportunity -- which includes practicing hard, physical conditioning, watching film, preparing mentally, etc.

 

TC, on the other hand, has 42 points in 43 games, had a huge game tonight (leading all forwards on both teams in ice time), is stepping up in crunch time with 9 points in the last 5 games, and made an amazing, clutch play tonight to win a crucial game for the Sabres. And maybe, just maybe, he got Pommer's confidence up with that setup for the game-winner (and maybe Max's too with the assist for his goal), and those 2 guys will step it up for the last 5 games. This would be nice because frankly I'm not expecting much from Roy's line.

 

Don't look now, but Darcy might actually have made a good move in extending TC.

 

Go Sabres. It's there for the taking. Grab it and don't let go.

[carpandean]

I'll give you that Roy has been in a bit of a funk lately, but it should be noted that anything Connolly is this year down the stretch, Roy was at least that last year. In fact, down the stretch last year, Derek had 51 points in his last 38 games, including 20 points in the final 12 games. Timmy? Injured, as usual.

[Two or less]

I love our fan base. The biggest whiny lil spoiled people in the world. Let's bash Derek Roy now because god forbid he had a few bad games. The guy is playing well but not scoring. He's better then Danny Briere. And way better then Chris Drury. Don't kid yourself. Roy has had a pretty good season and if we do miss the playoffs, he's not one of the players i'd be blaming.

[SabresOnTheWarpath]

I love our fan base. The biggest whiny lil spoiled people in the world. Let's bash Derek Roy now because god forbid he had a few bad games. The guy is playing well but not scoring. He's better then Danny Briere. And way better then Chris Drury. Don't kid yourself. Roy has had a pretty good season and if we do miss the playoffs, he's not one of the players i'd be blaming.

 

Roy's a decent 2nd line center, but no, he is not better than Briere. Briere has much more offensive talent. Drury may not be quite as offensively talented as Roy but he is a hell of a lot better 2-way player, and a great leader on top of that. I would take either over Roy (contracts notwithstanding)

[SwampD]

I love our fan base. The biggest whiny lil spoiled people in the world. Let's bash Derek Roy now because god forbid he had a few bad games. The guy is playing well but not scoring. He's better then Danny Briere. And way better then Chris Drury. Don't kid yourself. Roy has had a pretty good season and if we do miss the playoffs, he's not one of the players i'd be blaming.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[tom webster]

I love our fan base. The biggest whiny lil spoiled people in the world. Let's bash Derek Roy now because god forbid he had a few bad games. The guy is playing well but not scoring. He's better then Danny Briere. And way better then Chris Drury. Don't kid yourself. Roy has had a pretty good season and if we do miss the playoffs, he's not one of the players i'd be blaming.

 

 

Roy has come up small when they have needed him most. Its way to early to give up on him but you have to question whether he can be the number one center. He has become Ruff's whipping boy because Lindy knows he needs more out of him. Only time will tell.

[Wraith]

I think the differences between Roy and Connolly that we're seeing now boil down to intelligence. Not to say that Roy is not intelligent, but he's prone to stretches where he stops playing smart hockey. Watching Connolly, you always get the sense he knows where everyone on the ice is and has an idea where he wants the play to go. Somewhere along the line he developed a really high hockey IQ and it shows. Even when he's playing poorly he's not prone to the massive blunders Roy is.

 

You'll notice that over the last few games Ruff has limited the PK forwards to just the Connolly/Moore tandem and the Guastad/Hecht tandem. All very smart players who play smart during crunch time.

 

You've got to remember that while Connolly is only a few years older than Roy, he's got more than double the experience at the NHL level than Roy. He's been in the NHL since he was 18 and has had a few stretches of injury and adversity that have remodeled his game. Derek Roy on the other hand has progressed fairly steadily over the last few seasons but has never had to make the drastic changes to his game (or his maturity level) that Connolly has.

 

But, I have high hopes for Roy still. Roy is much further ahead at this point in his career than Connolly was at this stage. Same goes for Briere. There's plenty of room for growth.

[tulax]

The other guys (like, say, Roy's linemates, Stafford and Vanek) need a positive veteran influence. They need to understand that every shift in an NHL game is the chance of a lifetime, and that they need to make the absolute most of the opportunity -- which includes practicing hard, physical conditioning, watching film, preparing mentally, etc.

 

That's a little idealistic don't you think? Roy makes $4 Mil/year, Vanek makes roughly $7 Mil/year, and Stafford is due for a hefty raise from his $984K. These guys are paid that big money for one reason: offensive talent. These guys know that they're some of the most talented hockey players on the planet. Therefore it seems pretty realistic that they're done auditioning for a spot on a NHL roster. I get where your coming from but its not realistic, over the course of an 82 game season, to think that these players are going to play lights out every shift.

 

TC, on the other hand, has 42 points in 43 games, had a huge game tonight (leading all forwards on both teams in ice time), is stepping up in crunch time with 9 points in the last 5 games, and made an amazing, clutch play tonight to win a crucial game for the Sabres. And maybe, just maybe, he got Pommer's confidence up with that setup for the game-winner (and maybe Max's too with the assist for his goal), and those 2 guys will step it up for the last 5 games. This would be nice because frankly I'm not expecting much from Roy's line.

 

Well since your comparing Roy to Connolly: In the past 14 games (games since the trade deadline where Connolly signed the extension) both players have an equal amount of pointless games: 6. Connolly has 6 goals and 10 assists while Roy has 5 goals and 6 assists. Connolly had a streak of 7 games (3/7-3/21) without goals and Roy had a streak of 5 games (3/21-4/1) without goals. Taking all this into consideration I really don't see how one player has been better over this 14 game period overall than the other. I would consider crunch time to be from the trade deadline onward so both have been streaky IMO. Another factor in the production of Connolly vs. Roy: the fact that if Roy stays healthy over the next 5 games he would be playing a full season of hockey as opposed to Connolly's 58.5% of a season. The fact is it was not until March 7 of this year that Tim Connolly had played a combined full season of hockey under that contract he signed prior to 2006-2007 (2 in 06-07, 48 in 07-08, and 32 at 3/7/09). By that time he had already signed his new extension. If durability, which I would say Roy has, in professional sports is considered an asset, then shouldn't fragility be considered a liability? Tim has been playing well and, although I'm sick of hearing it, we hear all the time "how good would this guy be if he could stay healthy." But as the numbers I posted show he is subject to droughts just like any player.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Watching Roy at times is perplexing to say the least............He has so much talent, but never seems to live up to the billing.........No way he is a number one Center..........I still like watching him play when he is in proper form.

[carpandean]

Roy has come up small when they have needed him most. Its way to early to give up on him but you have to question whether he can be the number one center. He has become Ruff's whipping boy because Lindy knows he needs more out of him. Only time will tell.

Watching Roy at times is perplexing to say the least............He has so much talent, but never seems to live up to the billing.........No way he is a number one Center..........I still like watching him play when he is in proper form.

This brings up a good question: with Roy and Connolly both playing, who is our #1 center? Roy has been thrust into that position by default over the past two years because Timmy hasn't been in the lineup. He went straight from the #3 center to the #1 spot. With both, though, should he still be playing in the #1 spot? He's playing with Vanek and Stafford right now, which suggests that he is, but that doesn't mean it's the best idea.

 

Anyway, Derek has a lot of talent and has previously shown plenty of two-way smarts. He does, however, still have some maturing to do. He's come a long way, but still tries to do too much at times and still squawks at the refs too much. Over the remainder of his contract, I doubt many people will consider his $4 million cap contract to be a bad one. There are a lot bigger problems to focus on. Here's a few players that will be making nearly as much as (or more than, in Jochen's case) Roy next year ($3.5 million salary) that I am more concerned with: Hecht ($3.8 million), Lydman ($3.15 million) and Tallinder ($3.25 million.) Personally, I'm just happy that, for once in Timmy's current contract, we actually have two legitimate scoring-line centers on the ice.

[cilevel]

This brings up a good question: with Roy and Connolly both playing, who is our #1 center? Roy has been thrust into that position by default over the past two years because Timmy hasn't been in the lineup. He went straight from the #3 center to the #1 spot. With both, though, should he still be playing in the #1 spot? He's playing with Vanek and Stafford right now, which suggests that he is, but that doesn't mean it's the best idea.

 

Anyway, Derek has a lot of talent and has previously shown plenty of two-way smarts. He does, however, still have some maturing to do. He's come a long way, but still tries to do too much at times and still squawks at the refs too much. Over the remainder of his contract, I doubt many people will consider his $4 million cap contract to be a bad one. There are a lot bigger problems to focus on. Here's a few players that will be making nearly as much as (or more than, in Jochen's case) Roy next year ($3.5 million salary) that I am more concerned with: Hecht ($3.8 million), Lydman ($3.15 million) and Tallinder ($3.25 million.) Personally, I'm just happy that, for once in Timmy's current contract, we actually have two legitimate scoring-line centers on the ice.

 

Great point on Hecht, Hank and Toni. I also agree on Roy's maturity level - this is the area that needs improvement the most. He improves that and I think some of his dumb penalties and other mental lapses decrease in frequency along with that improvement.

[nfreeman]

I love our fan base. The biggest whiny lil spoiled people in the world. Let's bash Derek Roy now because god forbid he had a few bad games. The guy is playing well but not scoring. He's better then Danny Briere. And way better then Chris Drury. Don't kid yourself. Roy has had a pretty good season and if we do miss the playoffs, he's not one of the players i'd be blaming.

Nice response.

 

It's not "a few bad games". It's a repeated course of conduct. As a number of posters have noted, it's way too early to give up on him, but to me the overwhelming vibe that comes through is immaturity. All coaches expect more out of their more-talented players.

 

And you are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I'll gladly bet you that Briere finishes his career with at least 30% more playoff points than Roy does and that Drury wears a letter for 70% more games in his career than Roy does.

 

Roy has come up small when they have needed him most. Its way to early to give up on him but you have to question whether he can be the number one center. He has become Ruff's whipping boy because Lindy knows he needs more out of him. Only time will tell.

Good post.

 

I think the differences between Roy and Connolly that we're seeing now boil down to intelligence. Not to say that Roy is not intelligent, but he's prone to stretches where he stops playing smart hockey. Watching Connolly, you always get the sense he knows where everyone on the ice is and has an idea where he wants the play to go. Somewhere along the line he developed a really high hockey IQ and it shows. Even when he's playing poorly he's not prone to the massive blunders Roy is.

 

You'll notice that over the last few games Ruff has limited the PK forwards to just the Connolly/Moore tandem and the Guastad/Hecht tandem. All very smart players who play smart during crunch time.

 

You've got to remember that while Connolly is only a few years older than Roy, he's got more than double the experience at the NHL level than Roy. He's been in the NHL since he was 18 and has had a few stretches of injury and adversity that have remodeled his game. Derek Roy on the other hand has progressed fairly steadily over the last few seasons but has never had to make the drastic changes to his game (or his maturity level) that Connolly has.

 

But, I have high hopes for Roy still. Roy is much further ahead at this point in his career than Connolly was at this stage. Same goes for Briere. There's plenty of room for growth.

Another good one. I too have high hopes for him. He just frustrates me more than anyone else on the team.

 

That's a little idealistic don't you think? Roy makes $4 Mil/year, Vanek makes roughly $7 Mil/year, and Stafford is due for a hefty raise from his $984K. These guys are paid that big money for one reason: offensive talent. These guys know that they're some of the most talented hockey players on the planet. Therefore it seems pretty realistic that they're done auditioning for a spot on a NHL roster. I get where your coming from but its not realistic, over the course of an 82 game season, to think that these players are going to play lights out every shift.

Well since your comparing Roy to Connolly: In the past 14 games (games since the trade deadline where Connolly signed the extension) both players have an equal amount of pointless games: 6. Connolly has 6 goals and 10 assists while Roy has 5 goals and 6 assists. Connolly had a streak of 7 games (3/7-3/21) without goals and Roy had a streak of 5 games (3/21-4/1) without goals. Taking all this into consideration I really don't see how one player has been better over this 14 game period overall than the other. I would consider crunch time to be from the trade deadline onward so both have been streaky IMO. Another factor in the production of Connolly vs. Roy: the fact that if Roy stays healthy over the next 5 games he would be playing a full season of hockey as opposed to Connolly's 58.5% of a season. The fact is it was not until March 7 of this year that Tim Connolly had played a combined full season of hockey under that contract he signed prior to 2006-2007 (2 in 06-07, 48 in 07-08, and 32 at 3/7/09). By that time he had already signed his new extension. If durability, which I would say Roy has, in professional sports is considered an asset, then shouldn't fragility be considered a liability? Tim has been playing well and, although I'm sick of hearing it, we hear all the time "how good would this guy be if he could stay healthy." But as the numbers I posted show he is subject to droughts just like any player.

I'll disagree on the "every shift" point. The great ones bring it every time, or at least at a higher percentage than the just-good ones.

 

I'll also disagree that there's no real difference between the 2 of them since the deadline. While TC certainly had a slow streak, 16 points in 14 games is substantially better than 11 points in 14 games -- especially since TC is raising his game as we get closer to the wire, while Roy is fading.

 

You are certainly right about durability though.

[Team Strike Force]

I heard Bulldog on WGR talking about Roy a week or two ago. He's a guy who's good in the league and has a future, but it may not be with the Sabres, and that he epitomizes the anti-Ruff style of play. That made sense to me and nfreeman's post makes sense as well.

 

I'm not sure if Roy should bring in Briere or Drury, but when we think about changing the culture of the team and bringing in a difference maker

(a real defenseman, maybe?), we'll have to give up a guy like him.

 

Afinogenov or Hecht will bring in other junk. Roy won't.

[darksabre]

I'd let Roy go, and he can take his man-bitch with him. And Pomminstein's gold chain.

[stenbaro]

I love our fan base. The biggest whiny lil spoiled people in the world. Let's bash Derek Roy now because god forbid he had a few bad games. The guy is playing well but not scoring. He'syounger then Danny Briere. And way better then Chris Drury in my dreams. Don't kid yourself. Roy has had a pretty good season and if we do miss the playoffs, he's not one of the players i'd be blaming.

fixed.... :thumbsup:

[Do You Believe]

I love our fan base. The biggest whiny lil spoiled people in the world. Let's bash Derek Roy now because god forbid he had a few bad games. The guy is playing well but not scoring. He's better then Danny Briere. And way better then Chris Drury. Don't kid yourself. Roy has had a pretty good season and if we do miss the playoffs, he's not one of the players i'd be blaming.

 

 

i agree with you. Come on people Derek Roy is so much better than Briere bc he is healthy a lot more. And Drury just looks old out there.

[wjag]

Unless you are a 50 goal scorer, your play is going to go through peaks and valleys. Derek was hot a couple of weeks back when Vanek was out. Right now, others are carrying the play. He is a good two-way player and he seems not to tire out there. He just needs to reduce his offensive zone turnovers.

[X. Benedict]

Roy's a decent 2nd line center, but no, he is not better than Briere. Briere has much more offensive talent. Drury may not be quite as offensively talented as Roy but he is a hell of a lot better 2-way player, and a great leader on top of that. I would take either over Roy (contracts notwithstanding)

 

Roy's not a first line center...but neither are Drury or Briere....the difference is that Drury and Briere are paid like first line centers.

 

I think the only things I would put Drury ahead in these days are his his knack for shotblocking and key face-offs. Not that those are small things. Roy can really give people fits on the PK....

[SwampD]

Roy's not a first line center...but neither are Drury or Briere....the difference is that Drury and Briere are paid like first line centers.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[carpandean]

Roy's not a first line center...but neither are Drury or Briere....the difference is that Drury and Briere are paid like first line centers.

Which goes back to my original question. Who is our #1? Roy is a very good $4 million #2 center, but is Connolly a capable #1 center? Being paid $4.5 million per with his injury history suggests that the Sabre have him slated as such. He's a decent playmaker, that's for sure, but he's not good on faceoffs (Hecht has a better win %), doesn't bring a big physical presence and, as far as I can tell, isn't a natural leader (based on limited information, admittedly, but he comes off as kind of an arrogant prick.)

 

The only scenario in which I could see trading Roy would be if we sent out Hecht and Roy (separately or together), and used the money to bring in a true #1, moving Timmy into the #2 slot.

[JoeFerguson]

Roy's not a first line center...but neither are Drury or Briere....the difference is that Drury and Briere are paid like first line centers.

 

I think the only things I would put Drury ahead in these days are his his knack for shotblocking and key face-offs. Not that those are small things. Roy can really give people fits on the PK....

 

Roy is immature.

[bob_sauve28]

I don't see Roy or Connolly as the problems at all. They just don't have enough talent around them. I don't think the defense moves the puck up ice they way it use to when Teppo was still a good player and Campbell was still here. Aside from Vanek and to a much less degree Stafford these two guys don't get a lot of help. And I think a case can be made for a lot of other players that have let this team down this year.

[stenbaro]

i agree with you. Come on people Derek Roy is so much better than Briere bc he is healthy a lot more. And Drury just looks old out there.

IMO Derek Roy is the SAbres version of the then Leafs player Dominic Moore..He is a 3rd line or 2nd line center at best..No more..He is weak on the draws and gives the puck up too much..He doesnt score clutch goals and he his leadership skills are nill...Unfortunatley he is the best we have..

[KD in CT]

IMO Derek Roy is the SAbres version of the then Leafs player Dominic Moore..He is a 3rd line or 2nd line center at best..No more..He is weak on the draws and gives the puck up too much..He doesnt score clutch goals and he his leadership skills are nill...Unfortunatley he is the best we have..

Sadly prophetic. :(

[carpandean]

IMO Derek Roy is the SAbres version of the then Leafs player Dominic Moore...He is weak on the draws

Both Roy and Moore have been over 50% for (at least) this year and last year.

 

I will give you that Roy is probably more of a #2 than a #1, but a #3?! Come on.