Given the Kotalik article...

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Reading the Edmonton article on Kotalik inspired me to do a little research.

 

I've pretty much been a non-entity on this board the past 2 years because I was raining on everyone's parade. You can only say management is clueless and the players lack heart for so long before it gets old...I understand that. But since management now has a track record of taking a Conference Championship and the President's Trophy team, and turning it into an also ran for 2 consecutive years.....I figured I would look back and see where all the key contributers we let go have landed, and what their teams have done since then.

 

'05-'06 Team

 

Mike Grier - San Jose finished 5th in the conference that year and now have the best record in hockey

 

Jay McKee- StLouis was the worst team in hockey with a dismal 57 points, and are now 1 point out of a playoff spot

 

JP Dumont - Nashville was 4th in the conference and are currently in the final playoff slot

 

Taylor Pyatt - Vancouver missed the playoffs, and are currently in 1st place in their division

 

 

'06-'07 Team

 

Chris Drury - The Rangers finished 6th in the conference and are now in a similar position

 

Daniel Briere - Philadelphia was the worst team in the league with a dismal 56 points, and are now in a secure playoff position

 

Marty Biron - The goaltender on the team that went from 56 points to 100 points in 2 years

 

Danus Zubrus - New Jersey won their division, they will win it again

 

'07-'08

 

Brian Campbell - Chicago missed the playoffs the past 2 years and are now secure with a 4-6 playoff spot

 

Steve Bernier - Vancouver missed the playoffs and are now 1st in their division

 

Dimitri Kalinin - Traded at the deadline for Derrik Morris and is on a losing club

 

Al Kotalik - Edmonton has treaded water since the trade deadline while Kotalik scored 2 GW shootout goals and has 7 points in 6 games

 

 

 

Now you can argue what affect each of these players have had on their team. There is one thing you cannot argue however. That is that GMs that went after players on the Sabres roster that were considered expendable by Buffalo management have gone on to lead their teams to tremendous improvements in the majority of cases while the Sabres went from a top 5 team to the bottom 40% of the league on a regular basis.

 

If running a team is like a chess game, Regier and Quinn make the rest of the league look like Bobby Fischer. Maybe it is finally time to send them to the sandbox in the park with the little kids so they can play a game more their speed...Tiddlywinks.

[X. Benedict]

AHEM...........waiting for Steve Bernier to pot his 3rd PP goal...

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

AHEM...........waiting for Steve Bernier to pot his 3rd PP goal...

 

 

True.

 

I guess when you are in 1st place, you don't have to rely on slow...4th line players to cash in on the PP.

 

Maybe the fact that he has more even strength goals than every Sabre except Vanek and Roy speaks a bit more to what the Sabres are missing.

[wonderbread]

I am still waiting for the real Dwight Drane to return.

 

The one that really pisses people off.

[Eleven]

Reading the Edmonton article on Kotalik inspired me to do a little research.

But since management now has a track record of taking a Conference Championship and the President's Trophy team, and turning it into an also ran for 2 consecutive years....

 

Drane, please don't leave because of what I'm about to say, but...

 

What about the management that took an "also ran" and turned it into a President's Trophy team? That was pretty significant. The Sabres were complete crap before the lockout, no? But '06 and '07 thrilled us, and it's not that long ago. I'm not saying that the team's management should be immune from criticism, but what you wrote only tells half of the story.

 

You cite Briere. Fine. But what team gave him a chance to shine? It wasn't Phoenix.

 

What team saw value in Dumont to begin with? That was Buffalo. Chicago (stupidly) saw him as a throw-away. (That's the same team that saw Hasek that way, you know?)

 

The same management that built this team, built the team that just two years ago won a President's Trophy, and just two years ago, went to the semis for the second straight year (and that has happened with Ruff twice). You can bitch about management all you want; that's ok. But please, be balanced.

[shrader]

Why do people continue to list Zubrus as a huge part of Sabres history? The guy played 19 games with the Sabres plus playoffs and accomplished almost nothing. Now I'm not going to draw any conclusions here, but that team didn't finish all that strong after adding him. I'd question a few other so called "key contributers" but it's just not worth it.

[Eleven]

Why do people continue to list Zubrus as a huge part of Sabres history? The guy played 19 games with the Sabres plus playoffs and accomplished almost nothing. Now I'm not going to draw any conclusions here, but that team didn't finish all that strong after adding him. I'd question a few other so called "key contributers" but it's just not worth it.

 

Some people think that the failure to sign Zubrus while he was here was a mistake. I'm not sure they're wrong, but I think that's where some--not all--of this comes from.

[Chief Enabler]

Some people think that the failure to sign Zubrus while he was here was a mistake. I'm not sure they're wrong, but I think that's where some--not all--of this comes from.

I cant understand how a team like NJ without Broduer much of the year produces a better season than the Sabres :blink: So, with a guy like Zubrus who is arguably a 40 point per season guy somehow is useful as an attribute, but doesnt fit the Sabres system? Which leads you to; what system and players will it take? because it aint working right now.

 

Zubrus isnt a part of Sabres history. Maybe he is a locker room nomad (like Kotalik). This post falls into my catagory of locker room chemistry abit, in a bad way actually. The stability of coaching and long term promise of youngsters maturing has led to pampering & coddling players too much; now even worse because they are cashing in on multi year contracts now. If Lindy calls them out, there's no re-action. He has to schedule practice early so the "kids" dont sleep in!

 

The footprint conservative approach of trading aged value for drafts and youngsters has always trumped free agency signings and trading of youth in Buffalo; I think its time for a change.

[LabattBlue]

Why do people continue to list Zubrus as a huge part of Sabres history? The guy played 19 games with the Sabres plus playoffs and accomplished almost nothing. Now I'm not going to draw any conclusions here, but that team didn't finish all that strong after adding him. I'd question a few other so called "key contributers" but it's just not worth it.

I thought the same thing when the playoffs ended that year and had no interest in seeing the Sabres re-sign him.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Drane, please don't leave because of what I'm about to say, but...

 

What about the management that took an "also ran" and turned it into a President's Trophy team? That was pretty significant. The Sabres were complete crap before the lockout, no? But '06 and '07 thrilled us, and it's not that long ago. I'm not saying that the team's management should be immune from criticism, but what you wrote only tells half of the story.

 

You cite Briere. Fine. But what team gave him a chance to shine? It wasn't Phoenix.

 

What team saw value in Dumont to begin with? That was Buffalo. Chicago (stupidly) saw him as a throw-away. (That's the same team that saw Hasek that way, you know?)

 

The same management that built this team, built the team that just two years ago won a President's Trophy, and just two years ago, went to the semis for the second straight year (and that has happened with Ruff twice). You can bitch about management all you want; that's ok. But please, be balanced.

 

In all honesty, Lindy Ruff and Regier would both be GREAT in junior hockey. Darcy has a good eye for athletic young players. Lindy likes to play a system and fancies himself as a teacher. In the NHL however, you need to have a team that is comprised of "grown-ups". Skill is one thing, but as we have seen, character and desire is essential.

 

The Sabres lucked out with the lockout. The NHL changed the way the games were called. The league got rid of almost any physical aspect of the game, and the Sabres soared. That lasted a year and a half. If you look at Lindy Ruff's record, he has never taken the Sabres to the playoffs without Dominik Hasek or without the aid of rules changes. Also.....If you look at his record in games Dominik Hasek hasn't played....he is a .500 coach, right on the money.

 

Darcy just never learned how to take a real chance. If Quinn is the one calling the shots, then I still find it hard to muster up respect for Darcy. Sooner or later, if you trust your own abilities, you go somewhere else. Either Darcy screwed up the chemistry, or is just as much to blame as Quinn by going along for the ride as the team crumbled.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Why do people continue to list Zubrus as a huge part of Sabres history? The guy played 19 games with the Sabres plus playoffs and accomplished almost nothing. Now I'm not going to draw any conclusions here, but that team didn't finish all that strong after adding him. I'd question a few other so called "key contributers" but it's just not worth it.

 

Zubrus isn't a huge part of history....I just included certain players to make it fair. If I didn't have Kalinin in there people would bitch that I left him out on purpose because he wasn't in the playoffs. The point was to show that at the time these deals were made, most of these teams were horrible, or in a worse position then, than now. In the mean time the Sabres fell off of a cliff, all while defending their moves.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I am still waiting for the real Dwight Drane to return.

 

The one that really pisses people off.

 

I saved that for the PPP board on the Bills side!

 

Things are too screwed up right now to worry about hockey. I'm more worried about WWIII.

 

Plus, anyone that still loves the Sabres...REALLY LOVES the Sabres. It's no fun picking on the slow kids! I had more fun playing with the bandwagoners.

[Eleven]

In all honesty, Lindy Ruff and Regier would both be GREAT in junior hockey. Darcy has a good eye for athletic young players. Lindy likes to play a system and fancies himself as a teacher. In the NHL however, you need to have a team that is comprised of "grown-ups". Skill is one thing, but as we have seen, character and desire is essential.

 

The Sabres lucked out with the lockout. The NHL changed the way the games were called. The league got rid of almost any physical aspect of the game, and the Sabres soared. That lasted a year and a half. If you look at Lindy Ruff's record, he has never taken the Sabres to the playoffs without Dominik Hasek or without the aid of rules changes. Also.....If you look at his record in games Dominik Hasek hasn't played....he is a .500 coach, right on the money.

 

Darcy just never learned how to take a real chance. If Quinn is the one calling the shots, then I still find it hard to muster up respect for Darcy. Sooner or later, if you trust your own abilities, you go somewhere else. Either Darcy screwed up the chemistry, or is just as much to blame as Quinn by going along for the ride as the team crumbled.

 

I get your point, but with Hasek, Lindy Ruff adapted, played the right game, and got to the semis twice. After the lockout, Lundy Ruff adapted, played the right game, and got to the semis twice. In between, there was bankruptcy, strife, and loathing (along with some mild playoff success). The coach really isn't that bad. And with this roster (I still maintain that guys like Paille and MacArthur don't get to sniff an NHL locker room in other systems), he's not doing that poorly.

[shrader]

Zubrus isn't a huge part of history....I just included certain players to make it fair. If I didn't have Kalinin in there people would bitch that I left him out on purpose because he wasn't in the playoffs. The point was to show that at the time these deals were made, most of these teams were horrible, or in a worse position then, than now. In the mean time the Sabres fell off of a cliff, all while defending their moves.

 

I get everyone else. I've just never understood the obsession with Zubrus from a few around here. He's as much a part of Sabres history as Joe Juneau was. He was a rental. The team knew that going, Zubrus knew it, but the fans have never figured it out.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I get your point, but with Hasek, Lindy Ruff adapted, played the right game, and got to the semis twice. After the lockout, Lundy Ruff adapted, played the right game, and got to the semis twice. In between, there was bankruptcy, strife, and loathing (along with some mild playoff success). The coach really isn't that bad. And with this roster (I still maintain that guys like Paille and MacArthur don't get to sniff an NHL locker room in other systems), he's not doing that poorly.

 

Ruff lost me last year when he said he coaches guys not to play the body. He seems more worried about correct positioning then he is about finishing a check. The book has been out on this team for 3 years in my opinion. He dumbed a guy like Gaustad down last year in order to try and make him into more of a system player. I don't know if he finally figured out he screwed up, or if Gaustad finally had enough, but for the last 30 or so games Gaustad has looked like the captain of this team that I thought he should have been named going into last year.

 

I also HATE the excuses he uses. Just the other day with Kaleta getting hit. One minute he says it was a vicious hit that the league should look at....next minute he is complaining about the Montreal doctor keeping Kaleta out of the game due to a possible concussion. You can't have it both ways....and I think this team has grown up with a sort of "chickensh#*" mentality which Ruff approves of, and in some cases is the ring leader. How long did we watch Roy dive around the rink? How many times do we have to watch Kaleta nullify any positive he brings to the ice with his effort because of his turtle act? Any honorable coach would say cut the crap.

 

Maybe Ruff is a good coach, but like the rest of the organization the past few years have gone over much too easy for him. Show me some passion...show me some fire.

 

Although I haven't watched as closely this year, the only positives I can see are that Miller didn't regress, the team finally has an energy line again, Vanek isn't going to be a bust, and Butler will be an all-star someday as long as he doesn't turn into a zombie like 70% of the team. It's sad....because as I walked around the block today I thought about how great it would be to get to the Arena early on a day like this for a playoff game. It seems as if that may only be a distant memory soon.