Pirates look at Gerbe on defense

[wildcat48]

Pirates look at Gerbe on defense

March 6, 2009

Portland, ME ? Because of the Sabres infinite wisdom in having two healthy defensemen sit in the pressbox every night, the Portland Pirates have resorted to dressing forward Nathan Gerbe at defense.

 

That?s right? The Pirates have Nathan Gerbe on defense and it looks like he may be taking regular shifts there beginning tomorrow night as the Pirates are in Manchester to take on the Monarchs.

Read the rest of this entry ?

[spndnchz]

he could learn a bit back there.

[nobody]

Wildcat getting a little PO'd in his reports now. As I said in another thread: Welcome to life under the Sabres organizational way.

[spndnchz]

Dear Wildcat,

 

Did you know that the Sabres are in a playoff push?

 

As you stated in your story 7 defensemen are hurt. But that's all DR's fault? Dude, take a lude, breath, breath, okay, that's better.

[wjag]

Gerbe on Defense... Sorry, that's just ridiculous...

[BetweenThePipes00]

Let's not get overly dramatic with the "two healthy defensemen" thing ... only one of them could be sent down without going through waivers. How the Sabres handle Nathan Paetsch has little to do with Portland. As for Butler, if Ruff feels he is better off learning from James Patrick and Numminen and Rivet every day at practice even when he is not in the lineup, then Buffalo is where he needs to be.

Get over it, Wildcat. It's part of life as a farm team. The Bisons have been ripped apart many times in baseball ... every minor-league team knows the deal when they sign up. Not saying it doesn't suck, but ... life sucks.

[shrader]

Let's not get overly dramatic with the "two healthy defensemen" thing ... only one of them could be sent down without going through waivers. How the Sabres handle Nathan Paetsch has little to do with Portland. As for Butler, if Ruff feels he is better off learning from James Patrick and Numminen and Rivet every day at practice even when he is not in the lineup, then Buffalo is where he needs to be.

Get over it, Wildcat. It's part of life as a farm team. The Bisons have been ripped apart many times in baseball ... every minor-league team knows the deal when they sign up. Not saying it doesn't suck, but ... life sucks.

 

Calling up people is fine, but the issue here is not replacing them with anyone. The team clearly has some injury issues and the Sabres should be signing a body or two to fill those slots. Who cares if they're ECHL journeymen, it's still a healthy body to play on the blue line.

[LabattBlue]

Dear Wildcat,

 

Did you know that the Sabres are in a playoff push?

 

As you stated in your story 7 defensemen are hurt. But that's all DR's fault? Dude, take a lude, breath, breath, okay, that's better.

:thumbsup:

[LabattBlue]

Wildcat48 = Amerks6 :lol:

[shrader]

The more I think about it, this is pretty clearly a bluff by Dineen. He's sending the message "look, either you help us out or we'll have to do this". There's no way Gerbe is the best option, especially considering the fact that Mancari played a bit of D on Rochester (unless he's hurt too).

[james duncan]

Well, why not? He's got the frame to keep the front of the net clear.

 

Sorry Wildcat. We feel your pain.

[Two or less]

Dear Wildcat,

 

Did you know that the Sabres are in a playoff push?

 

As you stated in your story 7 defensemen are hurt. But that's all DR's fault? Dude, take a lude, breath, breath, okay, that's better.

 

LOL yeah. Seriously... no offense to Wildcat or the Portland Pirates, but this is the National Hockey League we're talking about. I'd much prefer Chris Butler to practice each day with the Buffalo Sabres and work first hand with James Patrick with day and learn from guys like Teppo Numminen and Criag Rivet then go down the the AHL and ride the bus in some minor league games. So, no, i don't expect him to be send down to help Portland up.

[SabresFan526]

Wildcat, thank you for the updates and all that you provide to the various Sabres forums. I respect your opinion. However, this is ridiculous.

 

First, you cannot blame the Sabres for the injuries to Weber, Card, and Funk. How is this Buffalo's fault? I understand that it's frustrating that Buffalo did not make a move to acquire some defensive help for Portland, but Regier is more concerned with the NHL team making the playoffs as that adds to the bottom line of a small market NHL franchise. The Sabres are his top priority, and should be his top priority.

 

Second, Chris Butler is an NHL defenseman. Just because he can go back to Portland does not mean he should. Ultimately, Buffalo is in a playoff race themselves, and they cannot be sending their best players down to Portland just because Portland is in a bind. Also, if you think Sekera is that guy, I think he has clearly proven that he is also an NHL defenseman as he supplanted Paetsch already.

 

Third, the "infinite wisdom" of the Buffalo Sabres is playing defense to prevent other teams from stealing Buffalo's talent. Honestly, if the Sabres were to send Paetsch or Numminen down, do you honestly think they will clear waivers? There is zero chance that an NHL team that is looking for a young defenseman with a year left on his contract or a veteran presence who can help a team making a playoff push would not pick these two guys up on waivers. Putting both of these guys on waivers is better than any trade any of these teams could make and hence it is completely unrealistic to think either of them would go on waivers.

 

Could the Sabres have made a trade for an AHL defenseman? Sure. But was it their top priority? No. The top priority of the Darcy Regier is the Sabres. And, in all honesty, you should give them the benefit of the doubt as they did acquire a goalie so that they could send Enroth down. The goalie situation is far worse than the defenseman situation in Portland, so I'd give Darcy Regier the benefit here. Sorry, but injuries happen and they have happened many times to the Buffalo Sabres. Anyone remember the 2005-2006 Eastern Conference Finals? This is why Darcy Regier believes that any team making a playoff push should have 8 NHL defenseman as he learned the hard way during the Carolina series when Sabre defenseman were dropping like flies. Sorry, but sometimes that's how it goes. The AHL affiliate is there to develop the talent for the NHL team. That's what the minor leagues are for.

[shrader]

The AHL affiliate is there to develop the talent for the NHL team. That's what the minor leagues are for.

 

And the situation in Portland doesn't potentially stunt the growth of several players in the system?

[SabresFan526]

And the situation in Portland doesn't potentially stunt the growth of several players in the system?

Injuries are part of the game. You have to deal with it. Using that logic, then putting guys like Doug Janik, Jeff Jillson, Rory Fitzpatrick, and Nathan Paetsch into a Game 7 pressure cooker would also stunt their growth. First, I think Gerbe playing on defense could help him as he needs to improve his defensive game anyway, and he's the only person that is affected by a change in position. Aside from that injuries are part of the game, and if that's an excuse for stunting growth, it's a bad one.

[shrader]

Injuries are part of the game. You have to deal with it. Using that logic, then putting guys like Doug Janik, Jeff Jillson, Rory Fitzpatrick, and Nathan Paetsch into a Game 7 pressure cooker would also stunt their growth. First, I think Gerbe playing on defense could help him as he needs to improve his defensive game anyway, and he's the only person that is affected by a change in position. Aside from that injuries are part of the game, and if that's an excuse for stunting growth, it's a bad one.

 

So the lack of bodies on the blue line has no effect at all? At least in the 06 playoffs that you mentioned, the team was able to replace the injured with healthy bodies. Yes, they weren't NHL bodies, but their spots in the lineup were filled. That's not happening in Portland right now. The injured have been replaced by no one.

[Bmwolf21]

Dealing with injuries is one thing. But IMO it's never a good thing when you take a developing player from his natural position and switch him to a completely foreign position because there aren't enough bodies.

 

Assuming this isn't a Dineen bluff - this isn't like asking Gerbe to switch wings or play center. This is moving a winger to defense, which is generally accepted as the toughest position to learn. It's potentially stunting the growth of a prospect because someone won't fill the holes on the blue line.

[shrader]

And not to mention that fact that playing short is going to open the door to even more injuries.

[SabresFan526]

Here's the problem, everyone seems to think it's extremely easy to acquire an AHL defenseman. There are only two types of AHL level defenseman, those that are on their entry level contracts, and those that are veterans.

 

Nobody is going to trade a young defenseman away as that is typically the prized possession of an organization. Also, if you are dealing, which teams are trading their young defenseman? It's certainly not the sellers as they are looking to acquire young prospects, so they will definitely not trade their young defenseman. Buyers are only willing to trade young defenseman if they are making a buying trade, so they will not so easily give away a young defenseman prospect, and Buffalo was more a buyer this year than a seller, so they weren't going to acquire a young defenseman from anyone because they weren't going to give up an NHL player for a young AHL defenseman. Could they have asked for a defenseman for Kotalik? I suppose so, but I don't know if Edmonton or anyone else was offering one and that would not have seemed like a fair trade and everyone would have been pissed at Darcy if he did that. And, if he did, there's no way the Sabres acquire Dominic Moore, whom everyone seems to be pretty happy with.

 

So, that leaves the only option being an AHL veteran. Those types of trades are difficult as you are looking at trading late round picks, and the Sabres are a team that generally likes to keep draft picks and probably don't value AHL level defenseman as much as they do draft picks. Second, you could run the risk of Philly with Kyle McLaren only to get the trade nullified because he failed his physical. Then, there is the issue of waivers as well. Assume you trade for an AHL level vet, I'm not 100% sure, but I would think that the player would have to clear waivers before being sent down to the minors, meaning you are exposing the player to every team in the NHL. The inevitable question is that if the vet was already in the minors, what's the likelihood of another team putting in a claim on that player? Well, is it worth trading for a player that you end up losing to waivers and you end up being in the same position you were when you started minus the original asset you traded to acquire the player? The best example can be seen with the Islanders when they recently signed Wade Dubliewicz to a deal, sent him to the minors and Columbus immediately picks him up off waivers. Is it worth making the trade in order to lose the player on waivers?

 

It's easy to criticize the lack of an acquisition for an AHL defenseman, but it's not that easy as very few teams are willing to give up a young defenseman to other teams and if you acquire a vet, you run the risk of losing the player on waivers.

[Bmwolf21]

Here's the problem, everyone seems to think it's extremely easy to acquire an AHL defenseman. There are only two types of AHL level defenseman, those that are on their entry level contracts, and those that are veterans.

 

Nobody is going to trade a young defenseman away as that is typically the prized possession of an organization. Also, if you are dealing, which teams are trading their young defenseman? It's certainly not the sellers as they are looking to acquire young prospects, so they will definitely not trade their young defenseman. Buyers are only willing to trade young defenseman if they are making a buying trade, so they will not so easily give away a young defenseman prospect, and Buffalo was more a buyer this year than a seller, so they weren't going to acquire a young defenseman from anyone because they weren't going to give up an NHL player for a young AHL defenseman. Could they have asked for a defenseman for Kotalik? I suppose so, but I don't know if Edmonton or anyone else was offering one and that would not have seemed like a fair trade and everyone would have been pissed at Darcy if he did that. And, if he did, there's no way the Sabres acquire Dominic Moore, whom everyone seems to be pretty happy with.

 

So, that leaves the only option being an AHL veteran. Those types of trades are difficult as you are looking at trading late round picks, and the Sabres are a team that generally likes to keep draft picks and probably don't value AHL level defenseman as much as they do draft picks. Second, you could run the risk of Philly with Kyle McLaren only to get the trade nullified because he failed his physical. Then, there is the issue of waivers as well. Assume you trade for an AHL level vet, I'm not 100% sure, but I would think that the player would have to clear waivers before being sent down to the minors, meaning you are exposing the player to every team in the NHL. The inevitable question is that if the vet was already in the minors, what's the likelihood of another team putting in a claim on that player? Well, is it worth trading for a player that you end up losing to waivers and you end up being in the same position you were when you started minus the original asset you traded to acquire the player. The best example can be seen with the Islanders when they recently signed Wade Dubliewicz to a deal, sent him to the minors and Columbus immediately picks him up off waivers. Is it worth making the trade in order to lose the player on waivers?

 

It's easy to criticize the lack of an acquisition for an AHL defenseman, but it's not that easy as very few teams are willing to give up a young defenseman to other teams and if you acquire a vet, you run the risk of losing the player on waivers.

Why would an AHL vet would have to clear waivers to join another AHL team? I really don't understand that at all. I don't recall there being any waiver issues two years ago when we traded for AHL veteran blueliners at the deadline (Mikko Lehtonen and Timo Helbling).

 

Anyway there are a lotta "what ifs" and "this could happen too" examples here, SF. There are always skaters available - you've just got to turn over every rock and leaf. As shrader said, who cares if it's even an ECHL journeyman. The point is to get some warm bodies in there to support the farm team and your own prospects. Is Enroth going to best be served by watching a a pint-sized winger-turned-defenseman struggle to clear the front of his net?

[shrader]

I know I said it somewhere, but it doesn't have to be a standard AHL defenseman at this point. They just need bodies. If it's an ECHL journeyman, then so be it. Then there are always guys out there in the Nolan Pratt mold. If they really wanted to find a stop gap for this team, they could.

[SabresFan526]

Why would an AHL vet would have to clear waivers to join another AHL team? I really don't understand that at all. I don't recall there being any waiver issues two years ago when we traded for AHL veteran blueliners at the deadline (Mikko Lehtonen and Timo Helbling).

 

Anyway there are a lotta "what ifs" and "this could happen too" examples here, SF. There are always skaters available - you've just got to turn over every rock and leaf. As shrader said, who cares if it's even an ECHL journeyman. The point is to get some warm bodies in there to support the farm team and your own prospects. Is Enroth going to best be served by watching a a pint-sized winger-turned-defenseman struggle to clear the front of his net?

Like I said, I'm not 100% sure on the waiver rules. You may be right, but I don't know how easy it is to acquire AHL level defenseman and what you'd have to give up. The waiver rules seem very complicated when I've read the CBA, so I will not pretend to be an authority on this, just my speculation given what I have read of the CBA.

 

I do agree that the Sabres could have found and still can find ECHL level defenseman and given PTO contracts. I don't know why they haven't. But, clamoring for an acquisition through trade of a minor league player seems unrealistic given the current trading landscape in the NHL where it is difficult to acquire young defenseman.

[billsrcursed]

Pirates look at Gerbe on defense

March 6, 2009

 

Read the rest of this entry ?

 

:cry: :cry: :cry:

 

Agitating a playoff push FTL!!!

[SabresFan526]

I know I said it somewhere, but it doesn't have to be a standard AHL defenseman at this point. They just need bodies. If it's an ECHL journeyman, then so be it. Then there are always guys out there in the Nolan Pratt mold. If they really wanted to find a stop gap for this team, they could.

I don't really disagree with this point at all. I disagree with Wildcat's article where it seems like he wants the Sabres to acquire an AHL defenseman through trade from another team. I think that can be easier said than done. I do agree that the Sabres could go out and get an ECHL guy, and I don't know why they haven't.

[shrader]

I don't really disagree with this point at all. I disagree with Wildcat's article where it seems like he wants the Sabres to acquire an AHL defenseman through trade from another team. I think that can be easier said than done. I do agree that the Sabres could go out and get an ECHL guy, and I don't know why they haven't.

 

Then again, several college players' careers are about to end. That will be another prime PTO opportunity. Then again, that will still take at least another week+.