millbank Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 The Sabre's, seem to be a good young team . Still they in fight for playoffs. What do you see the future for them as currently constructed. Are they a team of young players everyone just need be patient with, they just need learn their craft, gain experience soon, in a year or two a few player additions and they will be valid challenger for championship? Are they a team doomed to mediocrity, always in the playoff mix, but at best close but no cigar. The management deserves all the credit in the world for establishing continuity with keeping Darcy and Lindy, Darcy and scouting staff making mostly good decisions in drafting, Lindy largely doing fine job behind bench, (evidence of how he is regarded, he will be named to team Canada's coaching staff) I just wonder in end though is the wherewithall present for team to take necessary steps to be a valid challenger to be champion or will it come down to money , players who want better contracts vilified and fans left to fret about being small market amongst the big fish, only being able to relish small victories. Teams like Detroit show how patience and team building , staying the course in spite of much criticism , continuity and stability creating environment where players want to be and feel wanted is the way to go. Detroit did not get good over night it took time , growing pains. Where do you see the Sabre's given we approach the trade deadline, the talk of being sellers or buyers, keeping status quo, do you have realistic hope of a championship team one day, or are they just a good small market team, doomed to at best always ending close but never winning. (winning being championship, not the box office) The objective has to be keeping and adding pieces to be champion, not just making playoffs. I am reading and hearing , what do they need to make playoff push, but what I am asking what do they need do to make championship push. Enough of close but no cigar for Buffalo. Its time to win. Just asking... :)
deluca67 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 I know this isn't the type of answer you were looking for. What the Sabres need more than anything right now is time and the strength to focus on the future. Like others have said there should be no mortgaging of the future to secure a playoff spot this season. No player should be acquired unless they are under contract for a decent amount of time or the Sabres will retain their rights over the next few seasons. They need to allow players like Sekera, Butler, Weber and Stafford time to secure their spots as part of the core of this team. They need time to allow Pominville and Paille to work out of their funks. They need time to allow Connolly to prove on the ice what so many have posted here. They need to fight the allure of a flashy rent a player that may become available to them at a good price. If they stay focused and continue think long term they should be OK.
darksabre Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 It's okay, we're just in a building decade. This team will eventually become more consistent.
millbank Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Posted February 18, 2009 No, that was the sort of answer I was looking for . As the example of Detroit. it took them almost a decade to put together a winning organization. Your last comment, they should be "oK" . What is OK and what does it take to be better than just "OK" , staying to course and continuity are part of this dynamic, but what are the other components? Or is this just a continuing exercise in just staying "OK". (again question, not to incite or be wise, i was hoping for various responses, the reality of keeping a team afloat in this economy we live, there is not a black and white.) I know this isn't the type of answer you were looking for. What the Sabres need more than anything right now is time and the strength to focus on the future. Like others have said there should be no mortgaging of the future to secure a playoff spot this season. No player should be acquired unless they are under contract for a decent amount of time or the Sabres will retain their rights over the next few seasons. They need to allow players like Sekera, Butler, Weber and Stafford time to secure their spots as part of the core of this team. They need time to allow Pominville and Paille to work out of their funks. They need time to allow Connolly to prove on the ice what so many have posted here. They need to fight the allure of a flashy rent a player that may become available to them at a good price. If they stay focused and continue think long term they should be OK.
inkman Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 The objective has to be keeping and adding pieces to be champion, not just making playoffs. I I honestly think Darcy, much to many fans chagrin, really keeps this in mind with all personnel moves. Moves that are evidence of that: Locking up Ryan Miller. He takes a lot of heat for being 'Mr. Softie' but he has proven he's a gamer. Locking up Vanek, Roy, Pominville. While Jason has had his struggles, Roy and Vanek are top 6 players on any team and those players are needed to win. Locking up Gaustad. Every Stanley Cup winner has players of Paul's ilk all over the roster. Hopefully, Darcy will add more. Trading for Rivet. Every Cup winner has a heart and soul guy like Rivet on the back end. He'll clear the crease and defend his goalie/teammates. I still feel they need another scorer. Stafford is coming into his own but he alone isn't enough. I still fell they need more grit. Goose, Rivet, Mair, Kaleta and Ellis are gritty but another defenseman and perhaps another rugged forward are in order. I don't see much on the farm, so these players are going to have to come from outside the organization. Stanley Cup Champs don't have a lot of passengers and this team has too many. Kotalik, MacCarthur and even Paille all coast along for vast stretches without contributing anything. This is unacceptable. I'd send Clarke and Ales packing and keep Paille as a reserve forward as he may develop into a decent player. As far as Max goes... :rolleyes:
deluca67 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 No, that was the sort of answer I was looking for . As the example of Detroit. it took them almost a decade to put together and winning organization. You last comment, they should be "oK" . What is OK and what does it take to be better than just "OK" , staying to course and continuity are part of this dynamic, but what are the other components? Or is this just a continuing exercise in just staying "OK". (again question, not to incite or be wise, i was hoping for various responses, the reality of keeping a team afloat in this economy we live, there is not a black and white.) OK as in being on a course for future success. I may not be in love with the overall talent on the current roster it doesn't mean that they are void of talent. They have young talented players in place. They may not all be first or second line players and some may be playing above their station so to speak. For example, I think Paille and Stafford are third/fourth line players right now. The Sabres would be a better team if they could afford to play them that far down. Do to injuries and such they are forced further up the lineup before they are ready. Ideally you want Gaustad as the fourth line center picking up extra time on the PK and PP. The Sabres are so thin at center that Gaustad takes on more responsibility than he can handle at this point. It does affect his physical game sometimes. If the Sabres continue to infuse young talented players, eventually players will fall into their natural spots on the rosters. That's when it clicks and success just happens. Was the 1999 team overly talented? No. They had the right players in the right spots and a great goalie that made it all click. The more recent success was built the same way. You had players who just fell into their natural spots on the roster. A Roy wasn't forced into the #1 center position. When the Sabres get to a point where the players natural ability dictates where they fall into the roster over being forced because of circumstance the Sabres will find success on a greater level.
shrader Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 I know this isn't the type of answer you were looking for. What the Sabres need more than anything right now is time and the strength to focus on the future. Like others have said there should be no mortgaging of the future to secure a playoff spot this season. No player should be acquired unless they are under contract for a decent amount of time or the Sabres will retain their rights over the next few seasons. They need to allow players like Sekera, Butler, Weber and Stafford time to secure their spots as part of the core of this team. They need time to allow Pominville and Paille to work out of their funks. They need time to allow Connolly to prove on the ice what so many have posted here. They need to fight the allure of a flashy rent a player that may become available to them at a good price. If they stay focused and continue think long term they should be OK. And if the bolded part is indeed the plan, we're about to face a major turning point. With Sekera and Stafford up for new contracts this year, the length and cap hits for those deals can and hopefully will be a big part of setting that plan in action.
millbank Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Posted February 18, 2009 Appreciate your response to question. I suppose i wonder , are Sabres a team locked into mediocrity and at best close but no cigar, or are they on right track by continuity and good times are ahead for Sabre fans. Just so long a wait for Buffalo sports fans, people , city need their time in sun that special winning team as i get older i wonder will it happen , can it happen. What will it take, is the resolve and means here to do it... OK as in being on a course for future success. I may not be in love with the overall talent on the current roster it doesn't mean that they are void of talent. They have young talented players in place. They may not all be first or second line players and some may be playing above their station so to speak. For example, I think Paille and Stafford are third/fourth line players right now. The Sabres would be a better team if they could afford to play them that far down. Do to injuries and such they are forced further up the lineup before they are ready. Ideally you want Gaustad as the fourth line center picking up extra time on the PK and PP. The Sabres are so thin at center that Gaustad takes on more responsibility than he can handle at this point. It does affect his physical game sometimes. If the Sabres continue to infuse young talented players, eventually players will fall into their natural spots on the rosters. That's when it clicks and success just happens. Was the 1999 team overly talented? No. They had the right players in the right spots and a great goalie that made it all click. The more recent success was built the same way. You had players who just fell into their natural spots on the roster. A Roy wasn't forced into the #1 center position. When the Sabres get to a point where the players natural ability dictates where they fall into the roster over being forced because of circumstance the Sabres will find success on a greater level.
That Aud Smell Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 hey, grant. the sabres as presently constituted aren't equipped to win a cup -- crazier things have happened, but they're not where they need to be ... not yet. that's not to say they might not make some noise in the playoffs. from a 30,000 foot level, the franchise needs a few things: (1) continued patience, (2) sound player-personnel choices, and (3) a decent measure of luck/good fortune. they've got #1 in spades. #2 has been hit and miss, but i think that, with the exception of 2005, the team's done well enough in this regard (i am hoping it's too soon to make a call on 2006). #3 we can't control - but what i have in mind here is getting a guy in the lower rounds who blossoms into a top-tier guy (a la campbell or miller). from a more micro-level, i prioritize their needs as follows: (i) another top-6 forward who can play the pivot effectively. we can't count on connolly's health holding up. (but, but, but -- did you see that assist on paille's goal?! :wallbash: ) (ii) a smart veteran d-man - doesn't need to be a bruiser - just someone to take the minutes that teppo will soon have to give up and help guys like sekera and butler continue to develop. (iii) a forward with legitimate jam who can grind out a forecheck and chip in ~25 points a year.
deluca67 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 Appreciate your response to question. I suppose i wonder , are Sabres a team locked into mediocrity and at best close but no cigar, or are they on right track by continuity and good times are ahead for Sabre fans. Just so long a wait for Buffalo sports fans, people , city need their time in sun that special winning team as i get older i wonder will it happen , can it happen. What will it take, is the resolve and means here to do it... I think people get the wrong impression of Buffalo sports fans. I often here the phrase "long suffering". We're not suffering at all. It's not about the championships. Sure, one would be great and it would set off a party to end all parties but it won't define us. It's being in the mix battling it out with teams that can out spend us 20 to 1 from cities that out populate us 100-1. Buffalo is the smallest major city in the world. How does all that fit in to the topic of the Sabres. Buffalo sports fans understand the economics of the NHL. We may not like it. We may want TG to go broke trying to win at all cost. But deep down we know what it takes to get the job done. Building from within and putting the right type of players in place that can not only succeed but can also be the type of players we can relate to. Buffalo will have it's championship someday. It won't be bought by signing every free agent on the market. It will be built brick by brick and step by step and Sabres fans will be there every step of the way enjoying every minute of it. Just like we do even when the season ends prematurely.
nfreeman Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 Darcy made it pretty clear in his last interview with Schopp that he won't be trading for any rentals this year. So I think any deadline deals we make will be much more in the vein of unloading our upcoming FAs (and maybe Tallinder) in exchange for picks/prospects -- ie continuing to build for the future. This is the right call for this year IMHO. As for what the team needs to contend for a cup -- I think they need their young players to develop, including guys like Stafford, Sekera and Butler turning into stars, and guys like Paille, MacArthur and Kaleta turning into consistent producers. They need another scorer up front, but this could come from Pommer returning to form. They need another top-2 center, whether it's Connolly magically re-signing and staying healthy or someone from outside. And I really think they need another leader, ie a guy like Rivet, at forward (preferably center). I don't think they are that far off. The foundation seems to be there with Lindy, Miller, Rivet, Lydman, Butler, Sekera, Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Gaustad, Pominville and Kaleta. They need things to go right in terms of player development, retaining RFAs (like Stafford, Kaleta and Sekera), injuries, etc. And, maybe most importantly, they need management to make the right decisions on whom to keep and whom to let go. I'm a believer in continuity, and I think overall Darcy has done a very good job, but if we look back on the guys they've kept and the guys they've let go, even leaving aside the Drury debacle (which I'm convinced came from Golisano), the record over the past few years is uneven. Good decisions: Miller, Roy, Vanek, Lydman, Rivet, Gaustad, McKee Bad decisions: Drury, Soupy, Grier, Dumont, Max, Tallinder Unclear/Too close to call: Briere, Spacek, Connolly, Kotalik Too soon to tell: Hecht, Pommer I don't think all of the glitches are Darcy's fault (most prominently Drury, Briere and Soupy), and there were certainly circumstances surrounding each of them that made each of them reasonable at the time, but he is ultimately accountable for most of them. It's easy to drive oneself crazy with this, but what if we still had, say, Soupy, Dumont and Grier (instead of, say, Max, Kotalik and Tallinder)? If we are going to return to Cup contender status, the hit rate has to be a bit better.
Kristian Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 Appreciate your response to question. I suppose i wonder , are Sabres a team locked into mediocrity and at best close but no cigar, or are they on right track by continuity and good times are ahead for Sabre fans. Just so long a wait for Buffalo sports fans, people , city need their time in sun that special winning team as i get older i wonder will it happen , can it happen. What will it take, is the resolve and means here to do it... A very good question, and I wish I knew the answer. All I know is, that my personal belief is that if you can "get close", you can win it too, and we've been close only lacking the final piece to the puzzle - Luck. The series against the 'Canes was a prime example of this, and I'm not so much thinking of us losing 4 d-men to injury, but rather that every single damn friggin' bounce in that series ended up on a Carolina stick, and everytime they hit one of our d-men's skates, the puck would deflect in, rather than bounce wide. Carolina were good that year, but having the luck they did, made them downright unbeatable. I remember their first goal in game 7 - A shot taken from the blueline goes glances off Kalinin's skate, set to go wide, then hits Mair's skate and bounces in almost at a 90 degree angle. Seeing that completely deflated any hope I ever had we'd take that series. After sitting through 6 games of puck-luck for the opposition, this was like a dagger through the heart. I believe we'll be close again, but whether we'll ever win it depends on luck as well.
deluca67 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 I believe we'll be close again, but whether we'll ever win it depends on luck as well. If the Sabres make the playoffs they should change the theme song from Hurricane 2000 or what ever it is to Luck Be Lady Tonight.
millbank Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Posted February 18, 2009 Would not describe myself as suffering. Have certainly along the way met and made some fine friendships, these of much more value than any championship will ever be. These sustain me from season to season. Friendships and good relationships are what its about for me. Having said that, yes Championships are what its about, just having a team does not continually cut it. It is the source of my question. As you stated most Buffalo sports fans understand the economic realities of sport these days. Does understanding these realities mean understanding there isn't going to be a champion . Again not to be sarcastic or wise, but Buffalo fans do not know what it takes to build a champion, there hasn't been one. (Where Buffalo has a Champion and knows a Champion, is in its fans and loyalty to its sports teams. They second to none.) While I will continue to follow the local teams, just having them is not enough. I am a older man , its getting a very real possibility for me of many, many years of following teams I will never see them win. Sabres in Bankruptcy a few years back, the specter of change lurking with Ralph's aging, no its not real to expect teams to win every year, but once in a life time is. Sorry , just taking a reflecting guys.... :blush: . I think people get the wrong impression of Buffalo sports fans. I often here the phrase "long suffering". We're not suffering at all. It's not about the championships. Sure, one would be great and it would set off a party to end all parties but it won't define us. It's being in the mix battling it out with teams that can out spend us 20 to 1 from cities that out populate us 100-1. Buffalo is the smallest major city in the world. How does all that fit in to the topic of the Sabres. Buffalo sports fans understand the economics of the NHL. We may not like it. We may want TG to go broke trying to win at all cost. But deep down we know what it takes to get the job done. Building from within and putting the right type of players in place that can not only succeed but can also be the type of players we can relate to. Buffalo will have it's championship someday. It won't be bought by signing every free agent on the market. It will be built brick by brick and step by step and Sabres fans will be there every step of the way enjoying every minute of it. Just like we do even when the season ends prematurely.
bottlecap Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 The Sabres have questions if nothing else. Since I don't see an Edmonton or NYI-like four years of hockey dominence (or even one year, for that matter) in the Sabres future, I'd think that if Buffalo ever wins a Stanley Cup, they'll have to squeeze by. So, the Sabres first NEED SUPERB GOALTENDING then a top flight D and then some grit. Might need a coaching change too... I don't know about our goalie, he's a 5th rounder and usually plays like one against the top teams. So we might have to keep looking for a goalie. While we're waiting for our defensemen to ripen in the minors, we'll keep beating up on our richer Northern cousins just as a fun pasttime. ; )
apuszczalowski Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 The Sabres have questions if nothing else. Since I don't see an Edmonton or NYI-like four years of hockey dominence (or even one year, for that matter) in the Sabres future, I'd think that if Buffalo ever wins a Stanley Cup, they'll have to squeeze by. So, the Sabres first NEED SUPERB GOALTENDING then a top flight D and then some grit. Might need a coaching change too... I don't know about our goalie, he's a 5th rounder and usually plays like one against the top teams. So we might have to keep looking for a goalie. While we're waiting for our defensemen to ripen in the minors, we'll keep beating up on our richer Northern cousins just as a fun pasttime. ; ) There are very few goalies in the league that are better then what the Sabres currently have, and they have one fo the top coaches in the league, they are the least of Buffalos worries/concerns. They need less mid level talent being forced into top level positions on the team and some true top level talent. The defence is mediocre at best right now and needs a serious upgrade (then you will see the defence improve greatly). They also need a GM who is willing to put aside his ego and maybe ship off a prospect or 2 for some immediate help. Every year they stand by and watch as other teams make moves and get betteer while the Sabres dont because they won't part with a prospect and prefer to just wait for young guys to develop. Improved scouting/drafting could help alot more too
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