carpandean Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 They had Marty. Marty will be back on the market this summer. Just sayin' ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 A quality backup usually wants to be the starter. ;) ;) They had Marty. Anyway, IMO, I don't think a quality back-up can even flourish under his management which I believe is not fair (Lindy's way of managing his goalies) to that goalie. Again... Just my opinion. Mr. Motormouth was a nice and classy guy, I don't think anyone would disagree, but I think it's time we all lose the rose-colored glasses when speaking of Marty and his time here. Marty was never supposed to be a backup, he was supposed to be our starter, yet failed to establish himself as one. As a very expensive backup, yes he won 12-15 games in a row at one point (can't be bothered to check the actual number), but that was during the time when we lit up everyone night in and night out. During his final year here, he had a GAA. of 3.06 and a SV% of .899, yet he had 12 wins. Lalime is currently 3.07 with a SV% of .897, with 2 wins so I would say, at the very least, it's open to debate who or what won Marty all those games. Not saying his numbers aren't very passable for a backup, but they're not certainly not great in anyway. Plus as another poster said, Philly more than likely will not be looking in his direction come July. Personally I wouldn't mind having him back to backup Miller at 1.5 a year due to his attitude and team spirit, but since we got Lalime for another year, I doubt it's gonna happen. I agree with your sentiments, that backups have a hard time under Ruff, who seems to pick a favorite, and then everyone else is in his doghouse per default until somehow another favorite emerges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I don't think anyone is realistically looking at Miller as a reason the team is going sour. I think most of us are looking at what happened last year, when Miller wilted badly down the stretch, and are afraid that it's going to happen again this year. If the Sabres ride Miller to get into the playoffs, how much is he going to have in the tank when the real season starts? You have to gamble two points here or there during the season to give your franchise goalie a chance to recharge the batteries and get a night of physical and mental rest. Maybe the Carolina game wasn't the right time for Lalime. I can agree with that, being a proverbial 4-point game. But Lindy's got to find some nights to get Ryan some rest. Has anyone noticed if Miller is chugging down those vitamin drinks, or whatever it was, that he always had in his hand at the end of last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Mr. Motormouth was a nice and classy guy, I don't think anyone would disagree, but I think it's time we all lose the rose-colored glasses when speaking of Marty and his time here. Marty was never supposed to be a backup, he was supposed to be our starter, yet failed to establish himself as one. As a very expensive backup, yes he won 12-15 games in a row at one point (can't be bothered to check the actual number), but that was during the time when we lit up everyone night in and night out. During his final year here, he had a GAA. of 3.06 and a SV% of .899, yet he had 12 wins. Lalime is currently 3.07 with a SV% of .897, with 2 wins so I would say, at the very least, it's open to debate who or what won Marty all those games. Not saying his numbers aren't very passable for a backup, but they're not certainly not great in anyway. Plus as another poster said, Philly more than likely will not be looking in his direction come July. Personally I wouldn't mind having him back to backup Miller at 1.5 a year due to his attitude and team spirit, but since we got Lalime for another year, I doubt it's gonna happen. I agree with your sentiments, that backups have a hard time under Ruff, who seems to pick a favorite, and then everyone else is in his doghouse per default until somehow another favorite emerges. The Sabres had a legit shot at the Cup the year they cut him loose... Sure they cut him loose becuse they didn't want to get nothing in return... BUT, let me repeat... The Sabres had a legit shot at the Cup when they lost to OTT in the conference finals. IMO, they ripped the heart and soul from the team for the almighty buck and NOT THE CUP... That to me is bad. Whatever you do, do it for the CUp NOW. No wonder the team underachieved. Their heart was gone. Again... IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Sabres had a legit shot at the Cup the year they cut him loose... Sure they cut him loose becuse they didn't want to get nothing in return... BUT, let me repeat... The Sabres had a legit shot at the Cup when they lost to OTT in the conference finals. IMO, they ripped the heart and soul from the team for the almighty buck and NOT THE CUP... That to me is bad. Whatever you do, do it for the CUp NOW. No wonder the team underachieved. Their heart was gone. Again... IMO While I find it laughable to suggest that Marty was the "heart and soul" of the team, it wasn't just a case of "wanted to get something for him." Don't forget that they were paying Marty over $2M to sit on the bench as a backup, were close to the cap because of injuries, and because Marty wanted to be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 While I find it laughable to suggest that Marty was the "heart and soul" of the team, it wasn't just a case of "wanted to get something for him." Don't forget that they were paying Marty over $2M to sit on the bench as a backup, were close to the cap because of injuries, and because Marty wanted to be a starter. If I remember correctly, we were right at the cap. They traded him in part because they weren't going to sign him in the Summer, but also so that they had room to make an acquisition (Zubrus.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 If I remember correctly, we were right at the cap. They traded him in part because they weren't going to sign him in the Summer, but also so that they had room to make an acquisition (Zubrus.) True... But you don't dish him on a run like the Sabres were having that season... They made it to the conference finals... You just don't do it. They should have rode that horse (Sabres and the cap) to a froth! IT was kinda like a white flag right in the middle of the battle that they winning to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 If I remember correctly, we were right at the cap. They traded him in part because they weren't going to sign him in the Summer, but also so that they had room to make an acquisition (Zubrus.) Yep. An eight-year NHL veteran, Biron has been seeking a trade since losing the No. 1 job to Ryan Miller early last season. And the injury-depleted Sabres have been looking to free up payroll because they are at the NHL's US$44-million salary cap. ------ "It definitely wasn't Marty's personality or his play - it was definitely the business side of things," Miller said. "He's been a huge part of the reason we've been successful and we're going to miss him a lot." Biron, who is making $2.1 million this season, proved expendable because he is in the final year of his contract and eligible to become an unrestricted free agent this summer. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=197883&hubname=nhl True... But you don't dish him on a run like the Sabres were having that season... They made it to the conference finals... You just don't do it. They should have rode that horse (Sabres and the cap) to a froth! IT was kinda like a white flag right in the middle of the battle that they winning to an extent. Really? Trading the backup goaltender to make a deadline deal to bring in help for the stretch run was a white flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yep. An eight-year NHL veteran, Biron has been seeking a trade since losing the No. 1 job to Ryan Miller early last season. And the injury-depleted Sabres have been looking to free up payroll because they are at the NHL's US$44-million salary cap. ------ "It definitely wasn't Marty's personality or his play - it was definitely the business side of things," Miller said. "He's been a huge part of the reason we've been successful and we're going to miss him a lot." Biron, who is making $2.1 million this season, proved expendable because he is in the final year of his contract and eligible to become an unrestricted free agent this summer. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=197883&hubname=nhl Really? Trading the backup goaltender to make a deadline deal to bring in help for the stretch run was a white flag? Yep! He was Danny's roomate... Call Danny a all you want, but he did "pout" with the "flu" on the first road game after the deadline... Sat out that game... Strange quinky-dink it happend then??? I can't explain it, IMO, it must have created a lot of ill will amongst the team... You don't do that. We will never know, but I don't pretend to marginalize it the way some others do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 They basically downgraded their backup a little in exchange for a big center/winger, who was strong on faceoffs and could contribute offense. They didn't dump Marty to save cash. They dumped him so that they had cash available to bring in a roster upgrade. The ended up right back at the cap, just with two different players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 They basically downgraded their backup a little in exchange for a big center/winger, who was strong on faceoffs and could contribute offense. They didn't dump Marty to save cash. They dumped him so that they had cash available to bring in a roster upgrade. The ended up right back at the cap, just with two different players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yep! He was Danny's roomate... Call Danny a all you want, but he did "pout" with the "flu" on the first road game after the deadline... Sat out that game... Strange quinky-dink it happend then??? I can't explain it, IMO, it must have created a lot of ill will amongst the team... You don't do that. We will never know, but I don't pretend to marginalize it the way some others do! I will. I'll marginalize the hell out of it. It's completely ludicrous to suggest that trading the backup goaltender to clear cap space and enabled Darcy to make a deadline deal for the playoff push "ripped the heart and soul" out of the team "for the almighty buck." If anyone on the team whined or cried about it then they should have been benched for the playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I will. I'll marginalize the hell out of it. It's completely ludicrous to suggest that trading the backup goaltender to clear cap space and enabled Darcy to make a deadline deal for the playoff push "ripped the heart and soul" out of the team "for the almighty buck." If anyone on the team whined or cried about it then they should have been benched for the playoff run. We agree to disagree than. I am just saying you don't foster ill will and that is what I think happened... They (the FO) may not eevn have known it. A lot of things played up to the cluster phuck that became the off season that year. Oh... Edit: Bench Danny?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 They basically downgraded their backup a little in exchange for a big center/winger, who was strong on faceoffs and could contribute offense. They didn't dump Marty to save cash. They dumped him so that they had cash available to bring in a roster upgrade. The ended up right back at the cap, just with two different players. Look, while I want Lindy Ruff to start managing goalies a bit better, I have to agree with the concept that Biron/Miller was never going to work long-term. Both are good, starter-quality goaltenders. There aren't too many teams that have two of those, and those teams that do have two, always lose one to FA. They naturally want to start (who can blame them) just because they're competitive, not to mention the salary situation. One of those guys was going to go, no matter what. (Not sure when Clemmenson's contract is up, but will he stay with the Devils? Or is he a "system goaltender" like Cassels is at QB with NE, or like any running back with Denver in the last 20 years? And what does that say for Brodeur?) All that said, any backup is better with regular starts, and any starter is better with regular rest, and we don't have that. And sometimes, it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Look, while I want Lindy Ruff to start managing goalies a bit better, I have to agree with the concept that Biron/Miller was never going to work long-term. Both are good, starter-quality goaltenders. There aren't too many teams that have two of those, and those teams that do have two, always lose one to FA. They naturally want to start (who can blame them) just because they're competitive, not to mention the salary situation. One of those guys was going to go, no matter what. (Not sure when Clemmenson's contract is up, but will he stay with the Devils? Or is he a "system goaltender" like Cassels is at QB with NE, or like any running back with Denver in the last 20 years? And what does that say for Brodeur?) All that said, any backup is better with regular starts, and any starter is better with regular rest, and we don't have that. And sometimes, it shows. I agree. Also... All I am saying about the Miller/Biron thing is that they should have kept them together for the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 We agree to disagree than. I am just saying you don't foster ill will and that is what I think happened... They (the FO) may not eevn have known it. A lot of things played up to the cluster phuck that became the off season that year. Oh... Edit: Bench Danny?? You're right, we're going to have to disgaree, because if anyone on the team cried or had ill will toward the FO for a move that EVERYONE knew was coming and basically rewarded Marty for not being a distraction, then those players are complete idiots and completely delusional about the business side of the game. As to Danny? Yep. Same answer as above. If you're going to cry about them trading your roommate when all year long EVERYONE knew he was going to get dealt, then you're not a professional and not mentally up to the task of leading a team deep into the playoffs. I honestly cannot believe I am debating with someone that trading Marty Biron - the frigging backup - "ripped the heart and soul" out of the team and was the reason the team underachieved in the playoffs and was akin to raising the white flag on the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 You're right, we're going to have to disgaree, because if anyone on the team cried or had ill will toward the FO for a move that EVERYONE knew was coming and basically rewarded Marty for not being a distraction, then those players are complete idiots and completely delusional about the business side of the game. As to Danny? Yep. Same answer as above. If you're going to cry about them trading your roommate when all year long EVERYONE knew he was going to get dealt, then you're not a professional and not mentally up to the task of leading a team deep into the playoffs. I honestly cannot believe I am debating with someone that trading Marty Biron - the frigging backup - "ripped the heart and soul" out of the team and was the reason the team underachieved in the playoffs and was akin to raising the white flag on the season. Yes, laugh all you want... Take the business approach... It caused a rift in the locker room... The season was done when it happened... I believed it then as I do now. They should have sorted it out AFTER the season. Where is Zubrus now?? They did get a pick form Philly I think. It just wasn't worth it in my eyes... I would err more on the emotional side than the business side... We all saw how the business side blew up in their face that summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Look ... Not really sure why you quoted my post for that reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yes, laugh all you want... Take the business approach... It caused a rift in the locker room... The season was done when it happened... I believed it then as I do now. They should have sorted it out AFTER the season. Where is Zubrus now?? They did get a pick form Philly I think. It just wasn't worth it in my eyes... I would err more on the emotional side than the business side... We all saw how the business side blew up in their face that summer. While this is nothing but unfounded hysterical speculation, I really don't understand how a rational fan points to the trade of the backup goaltender as the reason the team lost in the ECF. But I'll bite -- if the season was done then, how did they go 12-6-2 down the stretch and beat out Detroit for the Presidents' Trophy? Then win 4/5 to knock out the Isles in the first round? Couldn't be that the team's season-long propensity to wait until the last 10 minutes of games to turn it on, pump in three goals and escape with a win when they didn't deserve it - that couldn't have made them cocky or overconfident, could it? Nah - had to be the trade of a failed-starter-turned-backup-goalie caused an "emotional rift" in the dressing room. They should have continued smack up against the salary cap and prayed there were no injuries the rest of the way, or they could keep doing the paper shuffle to bring guys "up" and "send them down" while they stayed with Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Not really sure why you quoted my post for that reply. Same here. It was a pervasive theory to which I was replying, and not necessarily your post. I should have used the "add reply" button on the bottom, instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Wolfie wins this one, and it's not even close. Sorry, Illinois. You're out to lunch on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Same here. Phew. Thought I was missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Wolfie wins this one, and it's not even close. Sorry, Illinois. You're out to lunch on this one. :lol: :lol: I am cool with it. But for the record you can go back and see that I had the same argument even before the deadline two years ago! :nana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 While this is nothing but unfounded hysterical speculation, I really don't understand how a rational fan points to the trade of the backup goaltender as the reason the team lost in the ECF. But I'll bite -- if the season was done then, how did they go 12-6-2 down the stretch and beat out Detroit for the Presidents' Trophy? Then win 4/5 to knock out the Isles in the first round? Couldn't be that the team's season-long propensity to wait until the last 10 minutes of games to turn it on, pump in three goals and escape with a win when they didn't deserve it - that couldn't have made them cocky or overconfident, could it? Nah - had to be the trade of a failed-starter-turned-backup-goalie caused an "emotional rift" in the dressing room. They should have continued smack up against the salary cap and prayed there were no injuries the rest of the way, or they could keep doing the paper shuffle to bring guys "up" and "send them down" while they stayed with Buffalo. They tied DET for the Prez... And if it wasn't for the freak OCT snowstorm where they beat DET in a SO then they would have lost the Prez. DET probably wanted to get the eff out of there (BFLO)!! :nana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 :lol: :lol: I am cool with it. But for the record you can go back and see that I had the same argument even before the deadline two years ago! :nana: The real question is will the Flyers deal Marty at this deadline to a team looking for a starter. He has been outplayed by Niittymaki, will likely be let walk if he makes it to the summer and they have very little cap space to make any other moves. Sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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