bob_sauve28 Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 Offer him a base deal worth $2million a season, and it will jump to $3million at 60 points, $4million at 80 points and $5 million at 100 points. We don't ever spend to the cap limit anyways, so there will be room, and if Connolly is hurt and not going to reach 60 points we will have room at deadline to acquire a top player. Just a thought
thesportsbuff Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 Offer him a base deal worth $2million a season, and it will jump to $3million at 60 points, $4million at 80 points and $5 million at 100 points. We don't ever spend to the cap limit anyways, so there will be room, and if Connolly is hurt and not going to reach 60 points we will have room at deadline to acquire a top player. Just a thought Oh so Connolly needs to hit 60,80, and 100 points to make a decent salary but Hecht and Pominville are allowed to top out at 50 for 4 mil or whatever those bums are making? It's a good idea but if you're doing it that way then you better adjust those numbers, 'cause he'll sign somewhere else for $4/yr regardless of how many points he scores.
bob_sauve28 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Posted February 12, 2009 It's a good idea but if you're doing it that way then you better adjust those numbers, 'cause he'll sign somewhere else for $4/yr regardless of how many points he scores. You are probably right
carpandean Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 Since Connolly is not a rookie nor is he over 36, he doesn't qualify for an incentive-laden (performance bonus) contract unless he spends 100+ days on IR during this season (the final one of his contract.) There is question about whether pre-season counts, but even if it does, I believe that he is shy of 100 by a bit. If he gets injured again, we would be welcome to, but at that point would you want to?
nucci Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 Offer him a base deal worth $2million a season, and it will jump to $3million at 60 points, $4million at 80 points and $5 million at 100 points. We don't ever spend to the cap limit anyways, so there will be room, and if Connolly is hurt and not going to reach 60 points we will have room at deadline to acquire a top player. Just a thought Why would he accept this kind of offer? If you were Connolly, would you?
K-9 Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 When I brought this in the past, Tom Webster pointed out that the CBA prohibits incentive-based contracts. Any clarification would be appreciated. GO SABRES!!! EDIT: Sorry Carp. As was so nicely pointed out by a pissed off poster, I didn't see your post ONLY two posts above mine. Thanks for the clarification.
spndnchz Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 When I brought this in the past, Tom Webster pointed out that the CBA prohibits incentive-based contracts. Any clarification would be appreciated. GO SABRES!!! Since Connolly is not a rookie nor is he over 36, he doesn't qualify for an incentive-laden (performance bonus) contract unless he spends 100+ days on IR during this season (the final one of his contract.) There is question about whether pre-season counts, but even if it does, I believe that he is shy of 100 by a bit. If he gets injured again, we would be welcome to, but at that point would you want to? Dude, it's only two posts above yours. Sorry I'm pissed after last night.
K-9 Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 Dude, it's only two posts above yours. Sorry I'm pissed after last night. Well excuse me for failing the Evelyn Wood speed reading course. Hope your day gets better. GO SABRES!!!
Patty16 Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 Since Connolly is not a rookie nor is he over 36, he doesn't qualify for an incentive-laden (performance bonus) contract unless he spends 100+ days on IR during this season (the final one of his contract.) There is question about whether pre-season counts, but even if it does, I believe that he is shy of 100 by a bit. If he gets injured again, we would be welcome to, but at that point would you want to? thats right
carpandean Posted February 12, 2009 Report Posted February 12, 2009 TC missed 24 games with a broken rib which is going to be about the same number that Vanek misses because his face is wired shut. Actually, Vanek is estimated to be out 3-4 weeks, which is only 9-12 games.
tom webster Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 I'd pay Connolly $4.00 per year. I'm not sure anyone will pay him 4 million though. Especially since it's likely that the contract will have to be self insured by the team. IIRC the Sabres couldn't get TC's current contract insured against injury so they had to take on all the risk themselves. I doubt another team would bring IN a player for significant dollars or years in that situation. If I were going incentive based with TC it would be two tiered, one for games played, the other for production. That'll eliminate some of the disincentive to play through minor things. TC missed 24 games with a broken rib which is going to be about the same number that Vanek misses because his face is wired shut. Seems a little disproportionate to me. Not that football and hockey are the same but Ben Roethlisberger played half the AFC Championship game and the Super Bowl with multiple broken ribs, and it's not like he didn't get hit. Did you read any of the above? Andy MacDonald just signed a 4 year deal with a $4.7 million cap hit and before this year he played in 82 games three straight seasons and averaged nearly a pointper game. Nobody is giving Connolly anything more then 2 years at $3.5 million per.
nfreeman Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Did you read any of the above? Andy MacDonald just signed a 4 year deal with a $4.7 million cap hit and before this year he played in 82 games three straight seasons and averaged nearly a pointper game. Nobody is giving Connolly anything more then 2 years at $3.5 million per. Intellectually, that sounds right, but remember that it only takes one incompetent/desperate/bozo GM to make a ridiculous offer -- like the Rangers giving Redden $6.5MM x 5 years. And McDonald didn't make it to UFA after a playoff run, like the Sabres might do, notwithstanding last night's royal crapping of the bed. It's not impossible that someone gives TC $4MM x 3 years.
IKnowPhysics Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Many teams would offer Connolly, a possible point-per-game-when-healthy player, a contract worth more than $2M, regardless of injury. See also, in a different, tighter economic climate: mush-brained Eric Lindros does NYR (via trade, $8.1M/3y), Toronto (UFA, $1.6M/1y) , and Dallas (UFA, $1.5M/1y). He'll fetch at least $3.5M, and it's most likely that some team high on cap room and weaker up the middle (Islanders?) will risk $4+ on him.
el_Polako Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 This isn't fantasy world. Connolly is a walking coma to be... i doubt he'll give the Sabres any real good deals. It's a business and this is HIS job. If you get injured at your job do you still collect the $$$??? Once you get better do you tell your boss "hey, i don't need the $23/h, just give me $15/h"... come on. It would be nice to get some type of a discount to keep him, but let's not try to rape him. He's worth the money, and he's also a huge risk. Can the Sabres afford to take such a risk? either way, the man should get his $$$
deluca67 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 This isn't fantasy world. Connolly is a walking coma to be... i doubt he'll give the Sabres any real good deals. It's a business and this is HIS job. If you get injured at your job do you still collect the $$$??? Once you get better do you tell your boss "hey, i don't need the $23/h, just give me $15/h"... come on. It would be nice to get some type of a discount to keep him, but let's not try to rape him. He's worth the money, and he's also a huge risk. Can the Sabres afford to take such a risk? either way, the man should get his $$$ In the real world if you missed half your days of work for various illnesses I doubt you would get offered any contract extensions. In the real world you get paid for production not potential.
carpandean Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 In the real world if you missed half your days of work for various illnesses I doubt you would get offered any contract extensions. In the real world you get paid for production not potential. Not entirely true. It depends a lot on the type of job that you are talking about. If you are talking about a job that requires skills that are possessed by a large number of available workers, then you are correct. However, if you are talking about a position that requires the highest (thus rarest) level of skill possible in a particular field, then you are not. Let's say that you have a PhD in physics from MIT, who has made some significant discoveries and has published in top journals -- something that only a small number of people in the world are capable of doing (roughly, say, the number of players that are capable of being #1, or even top-two, centers at an NHL level.) Even if his research output had been severely limited (in quantity, not quality) during the previous couple of years due to illnesses that could return, somebody would still hire him on. They would be willing to take a chance in hopes of getting the benefit of that rare skill. It's not a perfect comparison, but far better than comparing it to the situation of, say, a guy working on an assembly line.
deluca67 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Not entirely true. It depends a lot on the type of job that you are talking about. If you are talking about a job that requires skills that are possessed by a large number of available workers, then you are correct. However, if you are talking about a position that requires the highest (thus rarest) level of skill possible in a particular field, then you are not. Let's say that you have a PhD in physics from MIT, who has made some significant discoveries and has published in top journals -- something that only a small number of people in the world are capable of doing (roughly, say, the number of players that are capable of being #1, or even top-two, centers at an NHL level.) Even if his research output had been severely limited (in quantity, not quality) during the previous couple of years due to illnesses that could return, somebody would still hire him on. They would be willing to take a chance in hopes of getting the benefit of that rare skill. It's not a perfect comparison, but far better than comparing it to the situation of, say, a guy working on an assembly line. Your comparison is correct and seems to fit a Eric Lindros more so than Connolly. Lindros was a great player who missed a great deal of time do to injury. Even with the injuries Lindros was able to produce and play at a high level. Connolly has yet to put together any substantial stretch of games played at a high level. He has a few games here and there which I am not even sure equates to one complete season. To fit your comparison, Connolly just doesn't have the resume.
carpandean Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Your comparison is correct and seems to fit a Eric Lindros more so than Connolly. Lindros was a great player who missed a great deal of time do to injury. Even with the injuries Lindros was able to produce and play at a high level. Connolly has yet to put together any substantial stretch of games played at a high level. He has a few games here and there which I am not even sure equates to one complete season. To fit your comparison, Connolly just doesn't have the resume. You won't get an argument out of me now -- I've been the one saying things like "14 GAMES!" (now 15) in every Connolly thread. I have no desire to give him a contract now (unless he, for some reason, decides that he'll take a one year, $1.5 million deal), but was thinking more about the decision at the end of the season if/when he has played 42 games with approximately a point-per-game production. Obviously, if that doesn't hold true, then the decision is easy. However, if it does, then he might have just enough of a resume (people will always talk about his 2005-06 playoff performance ... well, before getting scrambled.)
deluca67 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 You won't get an argument out of me now -- I've been the one saying things like "14 GAMES!" (now 15) in every Connolly thread. I have no desire to give him a contract now (unless he, for some reason, decides that he'll take a one year, $1.5 million deal), but was thinking more about the decision at the end of the season if/when he has played 42 games with approximately a point-per-game production. Obviously, if that doesn't hold true, then the decision is easy. However, if it does, then he might have just enough of a resume (people will always talk about his 2005-06 playoff performance ... well, before getting scrambled.) I'm beginning to feel that some fans willingness to hold on to Connolly at this point is more of a reflection of their lack of faith in the rest of the roster than it is faith in Connolly. The lack of talent throughout the roster really makes the talent Connolly does have stand out. The lack of talent on this roster has fans willing to pay big dollars to a player like Connolly based on short flashes of talent. Connolly may end his career with as many games missed as played. Yet fans are willing to pay.
nfreeman Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 I'm beginning to feel that some fans willingness to hold on to Connolly at this point is more of a reflection of their lack of faith in the rest of the roster than it is faith in Connolly. The lack of talent throughout the roster really makes the talent Connolly does have stand out. The lack of talent on this roster has fans willing to pay big dollars to a player like Connolly based on short flashes of talent. Connolly may end his career with as many games missed as played. Yet fans are willing to pay. Still beating this drum, eh? OK, here we go again: please name the teams that have more talent than the Sabres. You need to go through at least the top 3 forward lines. There are fewer than 5. (And the Rangers ain't one of them.)
spndnchz Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 I'm beginning to feel that some fans willingness to hold on to Connolly at this point is more of a reflection of their lack of faith in the rest of the roster than it is faith in Connolly. The lack of talent throughout the roster really makes the talent Connolly does have stand out. The lack of talent on this roster has fans willing to pay big dollars to a player like Connolly based on short flashes of talent. Connolly may end his career with as many games missed as played. Yet fans are willing to pay. I'd say I have more faith in the roster than I have faith in the FO getting more of what we need. With or without Connolly, we need a vet center. Here's hoping something happens in the next few weeks. Playoff run or not. And no, I'm not willing to give up a playoff run for players, I believe we can do some trades and still have 'the' run.
carpandean Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 With or without Connolly, we need a vet center. Weight is out for six weeks, so unless they trade him while he's injured, that market just got a little more expensive (supply is down.) It already went up with injuries to guys like Lang increasing demand.
spndnchz Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 Weight is out for six weeks, so unless they trade him while he's injured, that market just got a little more expensive (supply is down.) It already went up with injuries to guys like Lang increasing demand. Hmmmm, Max for Weight, straight up. Max could be able to play before Weight. (oh, wait,).
K-9 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Posted February 13, 2009 I'm beginning to feel that some fans willingness to hold on to Connolly at this point is more of a reflection of their lack of faith in the rest of the roster than it is faith in Connolly. The lack of talent throughout the roster really makes the talent Connolly does have stand out. The lack of talent on this roster has fans willing to pay big dollars to a player like Connolly based on short flashes of talent. Connolly may end his career with as many games missed as played. Yet fans are willing to pay. Do you not see the convoluted logic in that statement? Timmy's teammates are so bad that he's able play so well in comparison? Would that mean that if he were surrounded by better talent all around then he would be even better? Worth even more? Short flashes or not. Missed games or not, Connolly matured as a player and 'arrived' in this league after the lockout. His production while in the lineup (and yes that's been frustratingly too little) proves it. Your suggestion that he's able to shine on such a crappy team suggests it as well. GO SABRES!!!
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