[OT] Rochester Police Officer shot in back of head

[deluca67]

"There is no nanny state"? Haha! What a joke. That's all we have is a nanny state. If you're so involved with social programs then it should be very apparent the depth of government nanny-ism.

 

Who said anything about opposing assistance to those in trouble? There's a difference between cradle-to-grave State social programs and government assistance to those truly in need.

 

People peddling social programs in the 'hood, or anywhere else (read: food-stamp commercials on the radio) are no better than crack peddlers. Once you're "in need" they're happy to keep you, and your successive generations "in need."

 

There have been "social programs" for nearly 50 years, longer depending on what one considers a "social program". When are they supposed to start working? There are still poor people, there are now multiple generations of people dependent on "social programs." The "social program" high volume areas, known locally as the East and West sides, are more dangerous than ever. And they're depressing areas to be in; dirty, dillapudated, dangerous - no wonder these kids have "no chance". How many social programs have had countless dollars allocated to it to do something about the conditions of these neighborhoods for the past half a century? How much money and bureaucracy can you throw at a problem before you realize it's not working? Just like our stupid public education system and the completely ridiculous "War on Drugs"?

 

Or perhaps they ARE working... without all of these government programs and the people who depend on them - where would all of these unionized paper-pushers and power brokers go? Back into the mob? The private sector where you have to actually pay attention to what your healthcare plan is? That means they'd have to sucker people some other way for a vote.

 

I feel bad for the kid - just like the poor officer, he's a victim of OUR laziness and decadence. Too lazy to use all of the amazing resources at our disposal to recognize and understand just what the hell is actually going on, too decadent to be motivated to give a damn.

They will start working when they become the priority they should be. You can't start programs, cut their funding and expect positive results. If this government put half as much effort into it's social programs as it does the military sector inner city decay would be nowhere near the state it is today. It's great that our borders are protected. It just might be time to look over our shoulders and see what's actually happening to the country that we are protecting. This country is rotting from the inside out.

 

To the point of people remaining dependent on various social programs. You can't expect people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they have no boots. Existing social programs have been cut and scaled back to point where they barely allow those trapped in the system to survive. Expecting those caught up in the system to somehow strive and better their lot in life is for some unrealistic.

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They will start working when they become the priority they should be. You can't start programs, cut their funding and expect positive results. If this government put half as much effort into it's social programs as it does the military sector inner city decay would be nowhere near the state it is today. It's great that our borders are protected. It just might be time to look over our shoulders and see what's actually happening to the country that we are protecting. This country is rotting from the inside out.

 

No, one of the principle justifications for government (any government) is to provide protection for its citizens. However, you're mixing up your federal and state governments. It is not the role of the State to provide military protection for the country. I'm not quite sure how State programs are affected by the Federal military budget. If you're complaining about how much tax money goes to the local police, well, that's your row to hoe.

 

In NYS most of the budget goes to the endless litany of social programs. Where are the results after 50 years? Bigger government, more taxes, more bureaucracy, more dangerous inner-cities, more generations enslaved to the government through program dependencies. No change, all decay. That's a real nice idea to defend.

 

 

To the point of people remaining dependent on various social programs. You can't expect people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they have no boots. Existing social programs have been cut and scaled back to point where they barely allow those trapped in the system to survive. Expecting those caught up in the system to somehow strive and better their lot in life is for some unrealistic.

 

Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps was once what this country was all about. Ask Barack Obama. Ask any self-made, come-up-from-nothing person. It's easier to stay in the care of the government. And the government apparently likes it that way. RIP USA.

[Taro T]

They will start working when they become the priority they should be. You can't start programs, cut their funding and expect positive results. If this government put half as much effort into it's social programs as it does the military sector inner city decay would be nowhere near the state it is today. It's great that our borders are protected. It just might be time to look over our shoulders and see what's actually happening to the country that we are protecting. This country is rotting from the inside out.

 

To the point of people remaining dependent on various social programs. You can't expect people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they have no boots. Existing social programs have been cut and scaled back to point where they barely allow those trapped in the system to survive. Expecting those caught up in the system to somehow strive and better their lot in life is for some unrealistic.

You have made this claim several times in this thread. Which programs are you referring to and what level of funding has been cut?

[deluca67]

You have made this claim several times in this thread. Which programs are you referring to and what level of funding has been cut?

My wife's friend was recently let go do to budget constraints from her position at a center that provided vocational training. My neighbor, who has younger children, has told me of cuts at a local youth center where programs have been cut and availability has been limited. Part of the cuts were trained counselors which have been replaced by volunteers. My best friend growing up was working at a center on the West Side when they had to shut their doors.

 

I can't say for certain if the funding was local, state or federal in these specific instances. For me it doesn't matter. The city relies on the state as the state does the federal government. When cust are made at the top there is a ripple effect.

 

On a personal note, growing up on the West Side we had many centers available to us. Though a few like the Father Bell Center still remain many of the other options are gone. I love the West Side and it breaks my heart when I drive through it. There used to be a few libraries available to us. I think now the only one open is the Porter Avenue branch which is probably due to the college being right there. If you live up closer to Forrest Ave there is no library within walking distance unless you have access to Buff State. I also thought I just saw a story regarding the old Rock Pile site where it remains locked and unused.

[jwcolour]

not to take away from the current discussion completely but where exactly does personal responsibility come into play on this? Every day millions of At-Risk Youths choose not to pick up a gun and shoot a cop for no reason whatsoever. I don't see how this is the governments fault that they didn't have a program in place to miraculously save this child from himself. Considering he'll probably go to Juvie is it going to be the states fault for when he gets out and screws up again because they couldn't rehabilitate him? Sucks he had a upbringing, but I do not feel sorry for this kid at all. He has no regard for human life and an innocent man and his family have to pay for it. This kid is broken, where was his family to grab the kid by the back of the neck and jolt him back into reality. Programs help some kids stay off the streets, stay in school, etc. Yes they help at risk youths, but it also takes some responsibility on the kids part to want to go to these programs. No amount of programs or federal or state funding was going to fix this kid. This situation is so stupid.

[billsrcursed]

not to take away from the current discussion completely but where exactly does personal responsibility come into play on this? Every day millions of At-Risk Youths choose not to pick up a gun and shoot a cop for no reason whatsoever. I don't see how this is the governments fault that they didn't have a program in place to miraculously save this child from himself. Considering he'll probably go to Juvie is it going to be the states fault for when he gets out and screws up again because they couldn't rehabilitate him? Sucks he had a upbringing, but I do not feel sorry for this kid at all. He has no regard for human life and an innocent man and his family have to pay for it. This kid is broken, where was his family to grab the kid by the back of the neck and jolt him back into reality. Programs help some kids stay off the streets, stay in school, etc. Yes they help at risk youths, but it also takes some responsibility on the kids part to want to go to these programs. No amount of programs or federal or state funding was going to fix this kid. This situation is so stupid.

 

 

Here in Florida, we are experiencing a similar situation. My wife is a 4th grade teacher in Volusia County. Prior to our country's financial woes, she was dealing with parents who were either too lazy to care for their kids properly, or who were working so much and had no other family support that the child basically raised themselves. This can be said for more children than not, and it's been an issue in this country for quite some time. Deadbeats raising kids and single parents struggling to stay afloat with no other support.

 

Now throw in our financial issues, and our county just decided to cut ALL after school activities, including sports. Yes, ALL sports, from middle school all the way up to Varsity. We're NOT the first county in Florida to take this approach in order to cut back spending. The kids that were barely making it to school and doing so because of athletics and such now have no after school activities and nothing forcing them to attend. What do you suppose they will fill that time with?

 

Personal responsibility is one thing, but a 14 year old child cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot by smokes or beer, and cannot join the military. Our society has deemed children of this age unable to function independently, and rightfully so. This would then suggest that there are others who failed this child and allowed him to think that not attending school and instead picking up a firearm was acceptable.

 

The problem starts with the parent(s) and trickles down. Someone should have been able to have identified this kid's issues and handled them accordingly. There are many to blame for children like this, and whether anyone wants to agree with Deluca or not, he's right when he says these kids are victims, too.