Nostalgia

[gilbert11]

Just watched a replay of the 1975 Finals, Game 6 on ESPN Classic. (Unfortunately it was the Flyers broadcast). It was still a blast to watch.

 

Observed some interesting differences from that game vs now:

 

1. Goalie masks like used by Friday the 13th's Jason

2. Relatively skinny goalie pads

3. Since helmets weren't required, only a few players wore them (Gare, Lorentz, Luce, Ramsey)

4. TV Broadcast lacking the graphics of the score and running time that we're so used to today. As they broke for a commercial, a camera focused on the scoreboard

5. No advertising on the boards or ice. Initially I didn't like when the advertising started, but while the pure white boards were a clean look, it was also pretty bland

6. Frequent stoppage in play as players freeze the puck against the boards. Makes for a better flowing game since they eliminated that

 

I remembered every Sabres player on that team except one. I just don't recall defenseman Josh Gaberemant (sp?).

 

Unfortunately that was the game that gave the Flyers the Cup but I still enjoyed reliving it. Unfortunately the Flyers broadcast did not pick up the Thank You Sabres chanting at the end as well as I remember it.

 

Oh yeah, it was also interesting to see the presentation of the Cup. These days they make more of a ceremony out of it with the rolling out of the red carpet, and 2 caretakers wearing white gloves bringing it out. After that game, an ungloved guy just walked it out.

[Foligno's Nose]

I just don't recall defenseman Josh Gaberemant (sp?).

 

Jocelyn Guevremont.

 

No biggie. He was kind of underrated on the whole.

Fairly significant career as a Sabre though.

 

I always wonder if the fans felt the same as my generation did after the Dallas series.

Damn...so close.

[tom webster]

Jocelyn Guevremont.

 

No biggie. He was kind of underrated on the whole.

Fairly significant career as a Sabre though.

 

I always wonder if the fans felt the same as my generation did after the Dallas series.

Damn...so close.

 

 

It was different because we thought there would be many Cups in our future. By the time '98 rolled around, we knew to savor every monent.

[gilbert11]

It was different because we thought there would be many Cups in our future. By the time '98 rolled around, we knew to savor every monent.

 

 

JUst like the Bills' Super Bowls. Didn't make on til SB XXV, make 4 in a row and can't even make the playoffs now.

[Stoner]

I've mentioned this before: I wish the NHL would bring back the bench clearing celebration. Ultra cool.

[Lethbridge Broncos]

That game was incredible. Bill Clement scored a beauty goal -- after Korab was caught out of position. Korab was drilling guys all over the ice but was caught out of postion on the goal (and was to zealous all series to plaster guys insted of staying back). The French Connection was unable to produce in that game as well -- even though Gil had a couple of near goals just on his indiviual efforts. But the play of Lorenze, Gare, Rammer, Duds and Luce was non-existent. Shoney played his heart out too. Robert and Martin seemed distracted the entire game and should have been double shifted.

 

But every time I think of that game -- I am reminded of what a great player Bob Kelly was. He was all over the ice that series. The Buffalo fans of course booed Philly when they lifted the Cup. Classy.

 

 

JUst like the Bills' Super Bowls. Didn't make on til SB XXV, make 4 in a row and can't even make the playoffs now.

[bottlecap]

Sabres-Flyers wasn't as close as Sabres-Dallas. Flyers went up 2-0 in the series, then Buffalo tied

it. Then they went on to win the next two games to take the cup. Sabres were outfought and outcoached.

[deluca67]

The one thing that always stands out when I have a chance to watch classic NHL hockey. It's how bad the goaltending was.

[tom webster]

Sabres-Flyers wasn't as close as Sabres-Dallas. Flyers went up 2-0 in the series, then Buffalo tied

it. Then they went on to win the next two games to take the cup. Sabres were outfought and outcoached.

 

 

While it is true the tougher, grittier Flyers out fought them at every turn, this series was largely about the difference in goaltending.

[carpandean]

The one thing that always stands out when I have a chance to watch classic NHL hockey. It's how bad the goaltending was.

Yeah, I love when there's a low shot and the do sort-of a double-kick like they've lost their balance and fall down. It's amazing that the great scores didn't get hat tricks every game.

[R_Dudley]

Sabres-Flyers wasn't as close as Sabres-Dallas. Flyers went up 2-0 in the series, then Buffalo tied

it. Then they went on to win the next two games to take the cup. Sabres were outfought and outcoached.

 

See Tom's statement below

While it is true the tougher, grittier Flyers out fought them at every turn, this series was largely about the difference in goaltending.

It was the the difference and I remember, "Only God saves more than Bernie Parent"

 

Yeah, I love when there's a low shot and the do sort-of a double-kick like they've lost their balance and fall down. It's amazing that they great scores didn't get hat tricks every game.

 

The equipment wasn't that great back then and the masks well might as well not have one....The style was different and allot of that was due to the fact they didn't really want to lay down in the crease in front of those shoots back then like they do now. The tried to take most of the shots standing up instead of what goalies are doing today..

[mphs mike]

While it is true the tougher, grittier Flyers out fought them at every turn, this series was largely about the difference in goaltending.

 

 

Wholeheartedly agree - Bernie Parent had as good of a series as any goalie has ever had. Those were the Broad Street Bullies, we were an expansion team that had never won a playoff series. It was still scoreless after 2 periods of game 6. All of our Cups were soon to come.

[deluca67]

Wholeheartedly agree - Bernie Parent had as good of a series as any goalie has ever had. Those were the Broad Street Bullies, we were an expansion team that had never won a playoff series. It was still scoreless after 2 periods of game 6. All of our Cups were soon to come.

Didn't they have to win a series to get to the Finals? I'm just saying. :rolleyes:

[Lethbridge Broncos]

well, also the bullies had won the Cup before -- so they were pretty polished. Like the Stars / Sabres series, the star's veteran grinders (Nieuwendyk, Mike Keane, Guy Carbonneau, Ludwig, Ryan Skrudland, etc) and various roll players (Dave Reid, Benny Hogue, Tony Hrkac, Doug Lidster, etc) beat the faster and more atrractive looking Sabres.

 

That's why I insist that Regier -- in other posts-- sign 3 or 4 rugged grinder; grit; passion; emotion; piss and vinegar types for the 3rd and 4th lines. The old savvy vets know how to win. Claude Lemiuxe is now playing for the Sharks.

[Taro T]

See Tom's statement below

 

It was the the difference and I remember, "Only God saves more than Bernie Parent"

The equipment wasn't that great back then and the masks well might as well not have one....The style was different and allot of that was due to the fact they didn't really want to lay down in the crease in front of those shoots back then like they do now. The tried to take most of the shots standing up instead of what goalies are doing today..

Absolutely. Had those guys tried to play the way they do now, w/ the equipment that was available to them back then, career ending eye injuries (Parent and Desi come to mind immediately) would have been far more prevalent as would concussions (goalies are screwy enough w/out getting their bells rung a couple of times each game). And there would probably be more knee and groin injuries as leg pads back then didn't have the foam blocks to keep your knees a few inches off the ice when going down into the butterfly. Also, their upper bodies were pretty well bruised up by the end of the season even w/ staying high. I can't imagine how nasty the bruising would be if they were stopping everything w/ the bread basket.

 

Of course, shooters typically gave the goalie some respect and didn't try to shoot at the top 1/2 of the net. IIRC, Dryden mentioned in one of his books that he never tried to cover the top of the net because no one ever shot there.

[ExiledInIllinois]

It was different because we thought there would be many Cups in our future. By the time '98 rolled around, we knew to savor every monent.

 

 

Ya... The late 1970's Habs put a kabosh to that...

 

:angry: :death:

[ExiledInIllinois]

Yeah, I love when there's a low shot and the do sort-of a double-kick like they've lost their balance and fall down. It's amazing that the great scores didn't get hat tricks every game.

 

 

The great scorers had to contend with their own issues... Like lack of equipment, technology (skates), instigator rule, and goals that actually anchored into the ice.

 

It all balances out I guess.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Just watched a replay of the 1975 Finals, Game 6 on ESPN Classic. (Unfortunately it was the Flyers broadcast).

 

Weren't the finals televised nationally back then? NBC perhaps? And if so, were local affiliate's allowed to transmit their own broadcast regardless? Seems very strange if that was the case.

[Eleven]

Weren't the finals televised nationally back then? NBC perhaps? And if so, were local affiliate's allowed to transmit their own broadcast regardless? Seems very strange if that was the case.

 

I had to go back to my collection of vintage Sabs DVDs and look, but all I have from the '75 Finals is a NFL Films-style recap, replete with Beat poet commentary, sentimental slo-mo replays, and psychedelidisco music. No sign of a broadcaster logo anywhere, unfortunately.

 

I also rediscovered a Sabres-Red Army game (best of the lot, in my mind, despite the absence of drum machines and wah-wah guitars), a Sabres-Rangers playoff game from 1978, the half-hour intro and first period (only the first, unfortunately) of the last game at the Aud, and a documentary, "Buffalo Sabres: A Decade of Excitement," which pretty much dates itself.

 

The hockey was so much slower in these games than it is today. I guess that's one of the reasons that goalies could play the way they played, and with the equipment they wore (see above).

 

Flipping through these really made me appreciate how much Gretzky revolutionized the game. It just changed, bigtime, when he arrived on the scene.

[Taro T]

I had to go back to my collection of vintage Sabs DVDs and look, but all I have from the '75 Finals is a NFL Films-style recap, replete with Beat poet commentary, sentimental slo-mo replays, and psychedelidisco music. No sign of a broadcaster logo anywhere, unfortunately.

 

I also rediscovered a Sabres-Red Army game (best of the lot, in my mind, despite the absence of drum machines and wah-wah guitars), a Sabres-Rangers playoff game from 1978, the half-hour intro and first period (only the first, unfortunately) of the last game at the Aud, and a documentary, "Buffalo Sabres: A Decade of Excitement," which pretty much dates itself.

 

The hockey was so much slower in these games than it is today. I guess that's one of the reasons that goalies could play the way they played, and with the equipment they wore (see above).

 

Flipping through these really made me appreciate how much Gretzky revolutionized the game. It just changed, bigtime, when he arrived on the scene.

I'd argue that it was "Captain Video" aka Roger Nielson, the various challenge series w/ the Soviets, subsequent introduction of European players into the NHL, and improved skates that revolutionized the game.

 

The Russians played a much more flowing game than the Canadians did, and they brought weaving the puck up the ice to the game, rather than LW's stay left, RW's stay right, C's, well, you get the picture. The Euros that came over in a trickle in the '70's and a flood in the '80's also played that style.

 

Studying video of what your opponent did led to more precise positioning and play design both defensively and offensively. And all players become better skaters with the improved support that came w/ the boots that were available ~'80. That these changes were all of the same vintage as Gretzky's arrival shouldn't cause them to be overlooked.

[Eleven]

I'd argue that it was "Captain Video" aka Roger Nielson, the various challenge series w/ the Soviets, subsequent introduction of European players into the NHL, and improved skates that revolutionized the game.

 

The Russians played a much more flowing game than the Canadians did, and they brought weaving the puck up the ice to the game, rather than LW's stay left, RW's stay right, C's, well, you get the picture. The Euros that came over in a trickle in the '70's and a flood in the '80's also played that style.

 

Studying video of what your opponent did led to more precise positioning and play design both defensively and offensively. And all players become better skaters with the improved support that came w/ the boots that were available ~'80. That these changes were all of the same vintage as Gretzky's arrival shouldn't cause them to be overlooked.

 

True, but it was Gretzky's amazing skill--and the Oilers' success with him--that led other GMs to develop speedy teams, that forced goalies to adapt, and that captivated fans to the point that the NHL started changing its rules to allow for a more open, fast-paced game. And it's that last part that really convinces me that Gretzky was responsible. In the early 80s, we started seeing this new, fast-paced hockey from Edmonton, and we loved it. We wanted more. And the league made sure we got it.

[wjag]

See Tom's statement below

 

It was the the difference and I remember, "Only God saves more than Bernie Parent"

The equipment wasn't that great back then and the masks well might as well not have one....The style was different and allot of that was due to the fact they didn't really want to lay down in the crease in front of those shoots back then like they do now. The tried to take most of the shots standing up instead of what goalies are doing today..

You had to be certifiably nuts to play goalie in the early days.. Couple that with a good pain tolerance.

[Taro T]

True, but it was Gretzky's amazing skill--and the Oilers' success with him--that led other GMs to develop speedy teams, that forced goalies to adapt, and that captivated fans to the point that the NHL started changing its rules to allow for a more open, fast-paced game. And it's that last part that really convinces me that Gretzky was responsible. In the early 80s, we started seeing this new, fast-paced hockey from Edmonton, and we loved it. We wanted more. And the league made sure we got it.

Really?

 

It was in response to the Eulers' wide open game that the league essentially got rid of 4-on-4 and 3-on-3 hockey. I know you are old enough to remember both teams being shorthanded for coincidental minors. The Eulers were too good at that, so the league in a vote of 18-3 did away with that. They've since brought back 4-on-4, but not 3-on-3 and not 4-on-3.

 

I don't recall any rules changes to open up the game in the Gretzky era. Can you please tell me what they were? Making players play the puck rather than freeze it along the sideboards came in before Gretzky. Moving the nets out further from the boards came toward the end of his time and were opposed by Gretzky and reduced scoring. The touch-up icing does reduce the # of faceoffs, but I don't see how it speeds up the actual game play, as a team has to wait until all its players are out of the zone before they can chase on the forecheck and it reduces the # of opportunities to carry the puck into the zone w/out relinquishing control of the puck.

 

And trying to find a way to stop the Gretzky's of the world was a big part of why Neilson starting to use video in preparing his coaches and team when he was coaching in Vancouver.

 

Yes it's true, that the Campbell Conference did, rather foolishly if the goal was beating Edmonton, tend to go to a more wide open style of play in the 80's than the Wales Conference went to. The typical result of that was the Eulers went through the playoffs fresh and healthy and managed to make relatively easy work of the battered team that survived the Wales meat grinder. The Eulers tried the wide-open approach in a Finals once, and got their lunches handed to them. They didn't make that mistake the next 5 times they made it. They took care of their own end when playing eastern teams and played shinny against the western teams (excepting Calgary, of course, those games were nasty).

[Eleven]

Really?

 

It was in response to the Eulers' wide open game that the league essentially got rid of 4-on-4 and 3-on-3 hockey. I know you are old enough to remember both teams being shorthanded for coincidental minors. The Eulers were too good at that, so the league in a vote of 18-3 did away with that. They've since brought back 4-on-4, but not 3-on-3 and not 4-on-3.

 

I don't recall any rules changes to open up the game in the Gretzky era. Can you please tell me what they were? Making players play the puck rather than freeze it along the sideboards came in before Gretzky. Moving the nets out further from the boards came toward the end of his time and were opposed by Gretzky and reduced scoring. The touch-up icing does reduce the # of faceoffs, but I don't see how it speeds up the actual game play, as a team has to wait until all its players are out of the zone before they can chase on the forecheck and it reduces the # of opportunities to carry the puck into the zone w/out relinquishing control of the puck.

 

And trying to find a way to stop the Gretzky's of the world was a big part of why Neilson starting to use video in preparing his coaches and team when he was coaching in Vancouver.

 

Yes it's true, that the Campbell Conference did, rather foolishly if the goal was beating Edmonton, tend to go to a more wide open style of play in the 80's than the Wales Conference went to. The typical result of that was the Eulers went through the playoffs fresh and healthy and managed to make relatively easy work of the battered team that survived the Wales meat grinder. The Eulers tried the wide-open approach in a Finals once, and got their lunches handed to them. They didn't make that mistake the next 5 times they made it. They took care of their own end when playing eastern teams and played shinny against the western teams (excepting Calgary, of course, those games were nasty).

 

I don't think we're going to end up in agreement, but here goes: I'm remembering a significant increase in hard-hitting checks and a premium placed on speed, and a significant decrease in blatant holding. If you watch video of games in the 70s and early 80s, you see skilled players trying to make offensive strides, but handicapped by defending players who simply are draped all over them. (I've got a photo of Espo and Perreault where it looks like Espo is towing Perreault across the ice; Perreault was all over him.) After we got our taste of speedy hockey, those incidents started resulting in minor holding penalties a lot more frequently.

 

As an aside: When Gretzky was sent to LA, did that result in an Eulers' identity crisis?

[Taro T]

I don't think we're going to end up in agreement, but here goes: I'm remembering a significant increase in hard-hitting checks and a premium placed on speed, and a significant decrease in blatant holding. If you watch video of games in the 70s and early 80s, you see skilled players trying to make offensive strides, but handicapped by defending players who simply are draped all over them. (I've got a photo of Espo and Perreault where it looks like Espo is towing Perreault across the ice; Perreault was all over him.) After we got our taste of speedy hockey, those incidents started resulting in minor holding penalties a lot more frequently.

 

As an aside: When Gretzky was sent to LA, did that result in an Eulers' identity crisis?

I think you are right that we won't agree on this one.

 

Scoring was already going up prior to Gretzky entering the league. But it did continue to go up in the '80's. IMHO, the big difference between the '70's and the '80's was the # of odd man rushes. Teams (especially those in the Campbell) were more offensive focused in the '80's and I'd be surprised if there weren't significantly more odd-man rushes in the '80's. Heck, Gretzky made a living skating in the neutral zone while short handed, trusting that Kurri would take care of the 5-on-3 and get him the puck. You aren't going to have much hooking and holding on odd man rushes, but there still was a fair amount of it even in the wide open '80's.

 

And the '80's was the decade that the hip check died. Checking along the boards seems to have picked up then. I'd be curious to see a stat (I'm sure it doesn't exist) as to how much checking occurred in each decade and where it occurred. I'd expect the total number of checks was consistant but where they occurred and what type occurred changed. I'd agree with you that it seems that ferocious checks along the boards picked up in the '80's; if it did, I wonder how much mandatory helmet usage contributed to that. (Both in the context of more fast skating near the boards and guys being willing to charge at them more.) The helmet usage definitely increased careless use of the stick.

 

As to your aside: :w00t: