SabresFan526 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 Didn't see this posted anywhere, so I figured I'd post it. http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/553165.html Not a good situation. A once deep defense core has now gone down to 6 players everyday. Another injury and we are in bad shape. Hopefully, Sekera can bounce back from the ankle in the 2 week timeframe and we'll only see Paetsch for the next 2-3 games. Oh well, not good news for the Sabres defense core.
carpandean Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 Didn't see this posted anywhere, so I figured I'd post it. http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/553165.html Not a good situation. A once deep defense core has now gone down to 6 players everyday. Another injury and we are in bad shape. Hopefully, Sekera can bounce back from the ankle in the 2 week timeframe and we'll only see Paetsch for the next 2-3 games. Oh well, not good news for the Sabres defense core. It shouldn't be too long. He can use a full cage to come back before it's 100%. What really hurts is that Weber is also out for weeks after having knee surgery, so if we lose anyone else, we could be in trouble.
wjag Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 That explains why he stayed down. He played on the next shift or two I recall...
spndnchz Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 That blows. :cry: As much as I'd rather see someone else, our d's getting thin.
deluca67 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 Could be a blessing in disguise. Teppo has been looking old lately and Lindy hasn't been in a hurry to get him some rest.
shrader Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 It shouldn't be too long. He can use a full cage to come back before it's 100%. What really hurts is that Weber is also out for weeks after having knee surgery, so if we lose anyone else, we could be in trouble. We might see a minor trade or signing soon, maybe something similar to Pratt last year. I can't see them calling up any of the Pirates to fill the 7th slot.
Stoner Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 It shouldn't be too long. He can use a full cage to come back before it's 100%. What really hurts is that Weber is also out for weeks after having knee surgery, so if we lose anyone else, we could be in trouble. If?
nfreeman Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 Could be a blessing in disguise. Teppo has been looking old lately and Lindy hasn't been in a hurry to get him some rest. I guess now we'll see whether the legions calling for Teppo to sit are on to something. I'm pretty confident that it will become clear why Lindy wants him in the lineup every night.
SabresFan526 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Posted January 19, 2009 Could be a blessing in disguise. Teppo has been looking old lately and Lindy hasn't been in a hurry to get him some rest. How is that even possible? When Paetsch is called upon to play, it is never a blessing, neither in disguise nor in plain view. And there is no one who will be playing instead of Paetsch as Weber is hurt, Funk is hurt, and no one else in the organization will be called up. This is a huge downgrade as Paetsch is a soft player, is not as good as Teppo offensively, and is nowhere near as good as Teppo at making the break out pass or making passes to clear out the zone. How this is a blessing is beyond me as Paetsch is not just a small downgrade but in fact a huge downgrade compared to Teppo. We saw what Paetsch brought when had every opportunity to prove himself as an everyday player last year, and not only did he fail miserably, he was a healthy scratch initially in losing out to Nolan Pratt and then later in the season to Weber and Sekera. Paetsch brings absolutely nothing that will make Teppo's absence a blessing. This is such a ludicrous comment. And of course, using your favorite statistic, Paetsch's career +7 is nothing compared to Teppo's career +56, so even by your logic, Teppo is a better defensive player than Paetsch, 8 times better than Paetsch. So, Teppo being hurt is in fact a problem for the Sabres, not a blessing of any kind.
shrader Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 And of course, using your favorite statistic, Paetsch's career +7 is nothing compared to Teppo's career +56, so even by your logic, Teppo is a better defensive player than Paetsch, 8 times better than Paetsch. So, Teppo being hurt is in fact a problem for the Sabres, not a blessing of any kind. Not to back deluca at all here, but I had to point out that this comment is just a bit absurd. Teppo's 75 year career will bump that stat up quite a bit as long as he's a positive player each year.
SabresFan526 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Posted January 19, 2009 Not to back deluca at all here, but I had to point out that this comment is just a bit absurd. Teppo's 75 year career will bump that stat up quite a bit as long as he's a positive player each year. You completely missed the point. I think +/- is one of the most overrated statistics around and usually doesn't tell the whole story at all. It could mean playing with a bad goaltender or not getting off the ice quickly enough on a line change when a goal is scored and you get the plus or minus when you have no impact on the play. But, I wanted to make this point to take away any possible argument that deluca has to indicate that Paetsch is a better player than Teppo, including using his favorite statistic of +/-. And as for your other argument, Teppo played on numerous bad Winnepeg Jets and Coyotes teams and he has frequently been a minus player in his career. Regardless, there is nothing statistically or otherwise that will indicate that Paetsch is a better player than Teppo.
shrader Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 No, I get it. But if you want to take away his argument (I really wonder why people even bother at this point), you might want to go with something that is far less flawed. You just left the door wide open for him. Oh, and I wanted to make sure to get in a comment about Teppo being 90 years old.
JujuFish Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 take away any possible argument that deluca has to indicate that Paetsch is a better player than Teppo, including using his favorite statistic of +/-. Except that the +/- proves otherwise. Teppo has averaged +1 every 24.3 games played vs Nathan's +1 every 19.1 games played. Yes, I know you were being sarcastic about the +7 vs +56, but at least make some logical sense.
deluca67 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 How is that even possible? When Paetsch is called upon to play, it is never a blessing, neither in disguise nor in plain view. And there is no one who will be playing instead of Paetsch as Weber is hurt, Funk is hurt, and no one else in the organization will be called up. This is a huge downgrade as Paetsch is a soft player, is not as good as Teppo offensively, and is nowhere near as good as Teppo at making the break out pass or making passes to clear out the zone. How this is a blessing is beyond me as Paetsch is not just a small downgrade but in fact a huge downgrade compared to Teppo. We saw what Paetsch brought when had every opportunity to prove himself as an everyday player last year, and not only did he fail miserably, he was a healthy scratch initially in losing out to Nolan Pratt and then later in the season to Weber and Sekera. Paetsch brings absolutely nothing that will make Teppo's absence a blessing. This is such a ludicrous comment. And of course, using your favorite statistic, Paetsch's career +7 is nothing compared to Teppo's career +56, so even by your logic, Teppo is a better defensive player than Paetsch, 8 times better than Paetsch. So, Teppo being hurt is in fact a problem for the Sabres, not a blessing of any kind. Can you show me the post where I mentioned Paetsch's name? Actually, prior to hearing Teppo was out and Paetsch would play I forgot Nathan was still a Sabre. So it looks as if you wasted a lot of time researching for nothing. My point was strictly in regards to Teppo who at 40+ years old was starting to show his age. Teppo is far from being this teams #1 defensemen so it's not like Nathan has to come in and play at an all-star level. He's not replacing Nicklas Lidstrom. As long as Paetsch doesn't start falling over himself and starts turning the puck over left and right he will be fine. A huge positive that could come from this is increased ice time for Butler. He has seen more ice time the last couple of games so it will be interesting to see if that continues. It sucks that Weber is hurt. This would have been a great opporntunity for him to step up and grab some serious ice time. Is anyone else excited about the Sabres defensive prospects? Sekera is a horse, Butler fits right in and we all saw what Weber is capable of doing last season. You pencil those three in for 2009-10 with Rivet and Lydman? Maybe resign Spacek? The Sabres defense would look pretty strong.
deluca67 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 I guess now we'll see whether the legions calling for Teppo to sit are on to something. I'm pretty confident that it will become clear why Lindy wants him in the lineup every night. We all know why. An old defense-man turned coach relying on the older veteran? Whether or not it's justified is open to debate.
deluca67 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 Go to bed already. B-) I just got up :thumbsup:
billsrcursed Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 Teppo> Nate. Not that it says much, but we might be in trouble.
rbochan Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 That explains why he stayed down. He played on the next shift or two I recall... The next eight shifts! He may be old, but Teppo's tough as nails. Timmy would have been taken off on a stretcher.
SabresFan526 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Posted January 19, 2009 No, I get it. But if you want to take away his argument (I really wonder why people even bother at this point), you might want to go with something that is far less flawed. You just left the door wide open for him. Oh, and I wanted to make sure to get in a comment about Teppo being 90 years old. Except that the +/- proves otherwise. Teppo has averaged +1 every 24.3 games played vs Nathan's +1 every 19.1 games played. Yes, I know you were being sarcastic about the +7 vs +56, but at least make some logical sense. You guys are way over-analyzing a sarcastic comment on a stat that I put very little stock into in the first place. The whole +/- statistic is a completely flawed statistic that only one poster on here that I know of uses as a justification for defensive capability, and that is deluca. And if you really want to analyze this statistic to death, the only head-to-head comparisons you can make about Teppo and Paetsch's +/- are the two seasons that they have played together being 2006-2007 and this season because you must look at the statistic at ceteris parabis (with all other things being equal) because otherwise they are not equal, which was the point both of you are interested in making. In 2006-2007, Teppo was a +17 while Paetsch was a +10, and there really is no better stat than to look at just this year where Teppo is a -4 in 45 games played while Paetsch is a -5 in 11 games played this year. Paetsch has a worse +/- in far fewer games played showing that overall he has a propensity to be on the ice when goals are scored more frequently this season than Teppo does as that averages out to -1 for every 11.25 games for Teppo and a -1 for every 2.2 games for Paetsch. You make the call as to who's the better +/- player this season. So, even my sarcastic point still proves that I'm write when referring to head-to-head and when both of them play at the same time. +/- aside, the big picture point is that to say Teppo's absence is a blessing totally in isolation without giving consideration to who his replacement will be is an ignorant comment and given who the actual replacement in the lineup will be is actually a ludicrous comment. Teppo at 90 years old is a much better player than Nathan Paetsch at 25 years old.
nfreeman Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 Well, I stuck up for Teppo, but at the same time, I'm not ready to write off ol' Nathan just yet. He's only 25. He's solidly built at 6'1", 200. He's a pretty good skater. He played 63 games 2 years ago and 59 games last year. We added 2 new veteran defensemen this year, plus 2 new kids who really hit the ground running, and Paetsch was the odd man out. But he's in his 3rd full year in our system. There are a lot of defensemen in the NHL who just aren't ready until they've accumulated a lot of experience. Soupy is the perfect example -- as late as the first part of the '05-'06 season (when he was 26), he did not look ready for prime time. Now he's a $56 million player (!). I'm far from saying that Paetsch is going to be another Campbell, but my point is simply that it's too soon to give up on him -- and I suspect the Sabres feel the same way. Let's see how he does over the next few weeks.
deluca67 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 You guys are way over-analyzing a sarcastic comment on a stat that I put very little stock into in the first place. The whole +/- statistic is a completely flawed statistic that only one poster on here that I know of uses as a justification for defensive capability, and that is deluca. And if you really want to analyze this statistic to death, the only head-to-head comparisons you can make about Teppo and Paetsch's +/- are the two seasons that they have played together being 2006-2007 and this season because you must look at the statistic at ceteris parabis (with all other things being equal) because otherwise they are not equal, which was the point both of you are interested in making. In 2006-2007, Teppo was a +17 while Paetsch was a +10, and there really is no better stat than to look at just this year where Teppo is a -4 in 45 games played while Paetsch is a -5 in 11 games played this year. Paetsch has a worse +/- in far fewer games played showing that overall he has a propensity to be on the ice when goals are scored more frequently this season than Teppo does as that averages out to -1 for every 11.25 games for Teppo and a -1 for every 2.2 games for Paetsch. You make the call as to who's the better +/- player this season. So, even my sarcastic point still proves that I'm write when referring to head-to-head and when both of them play at the same time. +/- aside, the big picture point is that to say Teppo's absence is a blessing totally in isolation without giving consideration to who his replacement will be is an ignorant comment and given who the actual replacement in the lineup will be is actually a ludicrous comment. Teppo at 90 years old is a much better player than Nathan Paetsch at 25 years old. :lol: You are hilarious. You do realize you are arguing against a point no one made. The Sabres defense is a six man unit. They lost their sixth man are now putting Paetsch in. It's not a situation where Paetsch is going play every shift Teppo would have. Lindy is going to make adjustments and sort out the ice time. You will probably see Chris Butler increase his ice time from about 15 minutes a game to 18-19 minutes. Cry all you want about Teppo, giving Butler more ice time does not hurt the Sabres.
shrader Posted January 19, 2009 Report Posted January 19, 2009 You guys are way over-analyzing a sarcastic comment on a stat that I put very little stock into in the first place. The whole +/- statistic is a completely flawed statistic that only one poster on here that I know of uses as a justification for defensive capability, and that is deluca. And if you really want to analyze this statistic to death, the only head-to-head comparisons you can make about Teppo and Paetsch's +/- are the two seasons that they have played together being 2006-2007 and this season because you must look at the statistic at ceteris parabis (with all other things being equal) because otherwise they are not equal, which was the point both of you are interested in making. In 2006-2007, Teppo was a +17 while Paetsch was a +10, and there really is no better stat than to look at just this year where Teppo is a -4 in 45 games played while Paetsch is a -5 in 11 games played this year. Paetsch has a worse +/- in far fewer games played showing that overall he has a propensity to be on the ice when goals are scored more frequently this season than Teppo does as that averages out to -1 for every 11.25 games for Teppo and a -1 for every 2.2 games for Paetsch. You make the call as to who's the better +/- player this season. So, even my sarcastic point still proves that I'm write when referring to head-to-head and when both of them play at the same time. +/- aside, the big picture point is that to say Teppo's absence is a blessing totally in isolation without giving consideration to who his replacement will be is an ignorant comment and given who the actual replacement in the lineup will be is actually a ludicrous comment. Teppo at 90 years old is a much better player than Nathan Paetsch at 25 years old. No, like I said, I just felt like saying that Teppo was playing back during the Roosevelt administration.
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