Drew Stafford...

nobody · January 16, 2009

Obviously Stafford has stepped up his game because he saw the Eklund trade rumors.

X. Benedict · January 16, 2009

Maybe my definition of late and yours is different, but mine is during or after a shot is taken. A different problem is when a late shot becomes a shot to the head. The whole problem is it looks like he's out with a concussion.

Late? The guy was moving toward net.

Stafford has to make that hit.

Keith needs to take most of the blame for having his head so low and not seeing the backcheck,

he made that move because he thought both d-men were tied up and he a forward in front of him,

Cut to the middle he should expect to get hit even if he doesn't see it coming.

Unfortunate he was injured.

X. Benedict · January 16, 2009

I don't like head shots any more than you do and if I thought that Stafford intentionally brought his elbow up for a dirty head shot, I'd be calling him out to ... but for the head shot, not for being late. As for the injury, do you remember how long it took Umberger to get to the bench after "the hit" by Soupy? I don't because no video on YouTube runs long enough for him to even stand up. He missed two playoff games, but that was as clean of hit as you can get. He shouldn't have had his head down and neither should have Keith. As BTP also pointed out, Stafford could easily have made that much worse and insured that he kept Keith out for a very long time, not just game-to-game.

Agree,

If Stafford intentionally tried to elbow Keith in that position, Keith would be spitting chicklets and working with a surgeon to reconstruct his jaw and orbital.

shrader · January 16, 2009

He's not as talented as Stafford, no doubt, and I think he does play hard most of the time ... but he seems to be missing an edge he had last season and that edge translated into a lot more scoring chances for him.

They're completely different players though. There's a reason why one see's plenty of time on the powerplay while the other sees plenty of time on the PK. Sure, we want to see him score more, but the Paille-Stafford comparison doesn't make much sense to me. Both players are looked upon for a very different kind of game.

BetweenThePipes00 · January 16, 2009

Running Connolly out of the league would cut down on about 60% of them ;)

There's my headshot on him for the day.

LOL ... as Smell would say .. well played.

They're completely different players though. There's a reason why one see's plenty of time on the powerplay while the other sees plenty of time on the PK. Sure, we want to see him score more, but the Paille-Stafford comparison doesn't make much sense to me. Both players are looked upon for a very different kind of game.

They are different guys, I agree, I was just saying that Paille can still bring more than he has this season even if he is not expected to be an offensive player on the level of Stafford.

SabresOnTheWarpath · January 16, 2009

That was a great, clean hit last night. The NHL needs more of those hits, not less. What happened to the days of Scott Stevens???

inkman · January 16, 2009

That was a great, clean hit last night. The NHL needs more of those hits, not less. What happened to the days of Scott Stevens???

To play devil's advocate, many hockey fans thought Stevens was a dirty head hunter.

carpandean · January 16, 2009

the Paille-Stafford comparison doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd say that Paille has the potential to be a physical defensive forward, while Stafford has potential to be a physical offensive forward. The comparison is in how they live up to the physical part of their potential. If anything, Paille has more physical potential, but hasn't shown it more than intermittently this year.

shoveldog · January 16, 2009

That was a great, clean hit last night. The NHL needs more of those hits, not less. What happened to the days of Scott Stevens???

I'm with you... Keep your head up young man and you won't risk a concussion. Come through the middle of MY ice... say your prayers!

To play devil's advocate, many hockey fans thought Stevens was a dirty head hunter.

And one hell of a hockey player... IMHO!

MattPie · January 16, 2009

As for the injury, do you remember how long it took Umberger to get to the bench after "the hit" by Soupy? I don't because no video on YouTube runs long enough for him to even stand up. He missed two playoff games, but that was as clean of hit as you can get. He shouldn't have had his head down and neither should have Keith.

And yet there are Philly fans around here that call 'The hit' dirty as well since Campbell's arm came up after the hit much like Stafford's.

That was a great, clean hit last night. The NHL needs more of those hits, not less. What happened to the days of Scott Stevens???

Maybe it's a color-of-jersey issue, but Stevens seems like the king of the cheap shot. Good riddance.

bottlecap · January 16, 2009

jim kelley thinks the hit was a cheapshot elbow to the head:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/01/15/...ion_conference/

shoveldog · January 16, 2009

jim kelley thinks the hit was a cheapshot elbow to the head:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/01/15/...ion_conference/

Me thinks Keith should watch where he's putting his head next time, when he skates through the middle of the ice. How dare he ram it right into Stafford's elbow like that. :rolleyes:

X. Benedict · January 16, 2009

jim kelley thinks the hit was a cheapshot elbow to the head:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/01/15/...ion_conference/

And he's wrong.

I almost always read Kelley.

I think he is well past his best work.

BetweenThePipes00 · January 16, 2009

Sorry, I appreciate Kelley using his forum to try to stop headhunting every chance he gets, but there's no way Stafford elbowed him in the head. If he wanted to, he could have, but he didn't.

Still, I also HATE the whole "he came through the middle with his head down ..." excuse, as if that makes it OK to do pretty much whatever you want to a guy. YES, it is stupid and dangerous to come through the middle with your head down. Players are taught not to do it from the time they are little. But it doesn't give the opponent the green light to try to take his head off. It's dangerous because you can get hammered, but the hammering still has to be legal. Again, IMO Stafford was just trying to take the body on a guy coming through the slot in a position to score, he did not take a liberty on that particular hit. But that phrase is SO ingrained into the culture now even he was saying it after the game, it's like a reflex. And as long as guys who are dirty know they can blame the victim, they will keep headhunting. "Hey, sorry he got hurt, but he came through the middle with his head down." It's like a car theif saying they stole the car because the keys were left in it. Oh, in that case, not guilty? You still stole the car.

That Aud Smell · January 16, 2009

Sorry, I appreciate Kelley using his forum to try to stop headhunting every chance he gets, but there's no way Stafford elbowed him in the head. If he wanted to, he could have, but he didn't.

Still, I also HATE the whole "he came through the middle with his head down ..." excuse, as if that makes it OK to do pretty much whatever you want to a guy. YES, it is stupid and dangerous to come through the middle with your head down. Players are taught not to do it from the time they are little. But it doesn't give the opponent the green light to try to take his head off. It's dangerous because you can get hammered, but the hammering still has to be legal. Again, IMO Stafford was just trying to take the body on a guy coming through the slot in a position to score, he did not take a liberty on that particular hit. But that phrase is SO ingrained into the culture now even he was saying it after the game, it's like a reflex. And as long as guys who are dirty know they can blame the victim, they will keep headhunting. "Hey, sorry he got hurt, but he came through the middle with his head down." It's like a car theif saying they stole the car because the keys were left in it. Oh, in that case, not guilty? You still stole the car.

hmm, the car analogy doesn't hold up. body-checking is part of hockey; stealing automobiles is not part of car ownership.

there's a crass analogy to be made to when a guy crosses the line in sexual relations, but i won't go there.

in terms of dirty players using the "keep your head up" axiom as a justification for continued head-hunting, there's no way to revise the rules of the game such that you can punish the head-hunting plays but let the honest/legitimate ones slide. as others have remarked here, the only real answer is an outright ban on contact with an opposing player's head. i'm just not sure how those rules in the juniors are crafted, much less enforced.

shoveldog · January 16, 2009

hmm, the car analogy doesn't hold up. body-checking is part of hockey; stealing automobiles is not part of car ownership.

there's a crass analogy to be made to when a guy crosses the line in sexual relations, but i won't go there.

in terms of dirty players using the "keep your head up" axiom as a justification for continued head-hunting, there's no way to revise the rules of the game such that you can punish the head-hunting plays but let the honest/legitimate ones slide. as others have remarked here, the only real answer is an outright ban on contact with an opposing player's head. i'm just not sure how those rules in the juniors are crafted, much less enforced.

It's called the pussification of hockey rule. It's akin to the pussification of QB's in the NFL rule. These are contact sports played by grown men. They know the risks. If they choose risky behaviors, they need to deal with the consequences.

(Insert another crass analogy to crossing the line in a sexual relationship here.) But I won't go there either.

Kristian · January 16, 2009

Like I said in the GDT, I'll take a player commiting overly aggressive penalties any day of the week. It send a message to the other team. Don't #%^$#! with me, I'm a little crazy and might #%^$#! your #%^$#! up. It's the ticky tacky stick penalties that I can't stand.

Agreed.

I always felt if you're going to take a penalty, make sure the other guy knows WHY you're going to the box.

This doesn't mean I'm in favor of head-hunting though, but there are ways to hit hard without cheapshotting people.

Stoner · January 16, 2009

Hey, he scored 19 goals and had twice as many hits a Pominville ... Not saying he is Mark Messier, but you can't deny if he played as well as he did last season, they'd be better off. Not saying he was an all-star.

The question was whether hitting was his game last season. Ruff didn't think so. He sat him down after the season and told him e needed to be more physical.

TBN after opening night 2008:

But as Paille advanced at the pro level, the hits were missing. As is often the case, the timeline traces back to a pair of injuries. He broke his jaw at the start of the 2005-06 season, which forced him to lose weight. When he returned to the lineup, he cracked a rib. He compensated for the ailments by avoiding collisions. Problem was, he got too accustomed to playing without contact.

?It kind of changed my style of game,? Paille said. ?I tried to adjust a little differently. I felt better and better about the [scoring] chances, but the hits were getting less.?

Ruff noticed. The coach sat Paille down last year at the end-of- season meetings and told the left wing he needed to be more physical. Paille bulked up his upper body over the summer, and the muscle came in handy Friday.

?In the end you feel better with your style of play,? Paille said. ?It felt like my old self again [Friday] night, so I was really happy about it."

That Aud Smell · January 16, 2009

It's called the pussification of hockey rule. It's akin to the pussification of QB's in the NFL rule. These are contact sports played by grown men. They know the risks. If they choose risky behaviors, they need to deal with the consequences.

i can't get down with that either.

is our enjoyment of the game, a desire to "preserve" some perceived "legacy and tradition" conceived on canadian ponds and rivers, sufficient to justify a game that needlessly puts people at risk of life and limb (and cognitive function later in life)?

i say "no." others would say "yes." reasonable minds can differ on the subject. there's a lot of gray area when talking about protecting these guys' grey matter.

That Aud Smell · January 16, 2009

The question was whether hitting was his game last season. Ruff didn't think so. He sat him down after the season and told him e needed to be more physical.

TBN after opening night 2008:

But as Paille advanced at the pro level, the hits were missing. As is often the case, the timeline traces back to a pair of injuries. He broke his jaw at the start of the 2005-06 season, which forced him to lose weight. When he returned to the lineup, he cracked a rib. He compensated for the ailments by avoiding collisions. Problem was, he got too accustomed to playing without contact.

?It kind of changed my style of game,? Paille said. ?I tried to adjust a little differently. I felt better and better about the [scoring] chances, but the hits were getting less.?

Ruff noticed. The coach sat Paille down last year at the end-of- season meetings and told the left wing he needed to be more physical. Paille bulked up his upper body over the summer, and the muscle came in handy Friday.

?In the end you feel better with your style of play,? Paille said. ?It felt like my old self again [Friday] night, so I was really happy about it."

great catch. i remember posting 'round here about 12 games in to this season to the effect that i was anxious to see if paille could sustain that level of play. turns out, he hasn't.

spndnchz · January 16, 2009

i can't get down with that either.

is our enjoyment of the game, a desire to "preserve" some perceived "legacy and tradition" conceived on canadian ponds and rivers, sufficient to justify a game that needlessly puts people at risk of life and limb (and cognitive function later in life)?

i say "no." others would say "yes." reasonable minds can differ on the subject. there's a lot of gray area when talking about protecting these guys' grey matter.

And for the record, Stafford's hit was fine in my book. He could've taken his head clean off, he didn't.

BetweenThePipes00 · January 16, 2009

The question was whether hitting was his game last season. Ruff didn't think so. He sat him down after the season and told him e needed to be more physical.

TBN after opening night 2008:

But as Paille advanced at the pro level, the hits were missing. As is often the case, the timeline traces back to a pair of injuries. He broke his jaw at the start of the 2005-06 season, which forced him to lose weight. When he returned to the lineup, he cracked a rib. He compensated for the ailments by avoiding collisions. Problem was, he got too accustomed to playing without contact.

"It kind of changed my style of game," Paille said. "I tried to adjust a little differently. I felt better and better about the [scoring] chances, but the hits were getting less."

Ruff noticed. The coach sat Paille down last year at the end-of- season meetings and told the left wing he needed to be more physical. Paille bulked up his upper body over the summer, and the muscle came in handy Friday.

"In the end you feel better with your style of play," Paille said. "It felt like my old self again [Friday] night, so I was really happy about it."

All that is fine but it wasn't my point. He may not have been hitting as much as when he was in juniors, but he still seemed to be first to the puck most of the time and if he wasn't he battled his ass off until he got it. I am not seeing that this season. More physical would be nice but at this point give me that guy and they will be a better team for it.

cilevel · January 16, 2009

jim kelley thinks the hit was a cheapshot elbow to the head:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/01/15/...ion_conference/

Jim Kelley is a tool. He's written one article in the past year that I've read and found something with a valid perspective. For the most part he is just way too negative (and judgmental) in his angle all the time. I put little value in whatever he says.

BetweenThePipes00 · January 16, 2009

hmm, the car analogy doesn't hold up. body-checking is part of hockey; stealing automobiles is not part of car ownership.

there's a crass analogy to be made to when a guy crosses the line in sexual relations, but i won't go there.

The car thing was the best I could do while trying to avoid crossing said line ... and it's funny we are all dancing around it for fear of offending ... whom exactly? Spndnchz? She doesn't seem easily offended ...

in terms of dirty players using the "keep your head up" axiom as a justification for continued head-hunting, there's no way to revise the rules of the game such that you can punish the head-hunting plays but let the honest/legitimate ones slide. as others have remarked here, the only real answer is an outright ban on contact with an opposing player's head. i'm just not sure how those rules in the juniors are crafted, much less enforced.

I agree to a point, but still there is a line of some sort, right? I mean, and this speaks to your first point about body-checking being part of hockey, the rules for the rest of the ice still apply if a guy comes through the middle with his head down, right? So yeah, you can body-check a guy, but you are not supposed to elbow him in the head any more than you are in the corner. Yet guys leave their feet and throw elbows in a lot of these big hits and it's always "Well, he had his head down," as if that makes it OK ... You don't have to make a rule and then let "legit" hits slide ... they just have to enforce the current rule, be it in-game or with suspensions, when guys leave their feet or use their elbows. If you stay on your feet and keep your elbows down, the odds of a headshot go down a lot. I don't know, I am not even suggesting the RULES get changed so much as the culture that all bets are off if a guy is coming through the middle.

Stoner · January 16, 2009

The car thing was the best I could do while trying to avoid crossing said line ... and it's funny we are all dancing around it for fear of offending ... whom exactly? Spndnchz? She doesn't seem easily offended ...

That seems like a real stretch, that "he-she" is the only woman poster. There have to be more. And many women lurking. There are just too many female hockey fans to believe this board is the domain of men.

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