Possible moves by the Trade Deadline??

[shrader]

ugh, the obligatory, unfunny Corkum reference in a trade thread - :thumbdown:

 

Please come with something fresh.

 

It might have been a joke if I hadn't actually run spotted Corkum at a hockey game on saturday.

[Bmwolf21]

Would anyone pay $2.5 million for a 6' 2" 225lb 23 year old with 9 goals 13 assists and leading their team with 77 hits? I would, that is the year Steve Bernier is having. I still don't understand why the Sabres would give up the talent and size. There had to have been other deals that could have been made. To me that is a clear sign that the Sabres don;t value size and toughness as much as the fans do. They will easily trade away a player like Bernier away but hold on to players like Max and Connolly. It just doesn't make sense.

Didn't you hear? Bernier was a bust. He did nothing here outside of a great first game and a couple games toward the end of the year. At least that's what I keep reading on here.

 

I think it's safe to assume there was zero demand for TC and that they weren't able to get for Max what they got for Bernier (a 2nd rounder, which they needed to get Rivet).

You can make the case that they wanted to get a 2nd back to give them some bargaining power in potential trades, but they didn't actually use the draft pick they got for Bernier in the Rivet deal.

[tom webster]

or Tallinder.

They didn't plan to let Campbell go. They tried to sign him. They just butchered it out of incompetence, just like they did with Drury. And Drury's departure shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone -- once he chose not to sign in the fall, they should have immediately seen the writing on the wall.

I think it's safe to assume there was zero demand for TC and that they weren't able to get for Max what they got for Bernier (a 2nd rounder, which they needed to get Rivet).

 

They would like us to believe they needed that 2nd rounder but all they needed was to dump salary because for whateer reason, they wouldn't dump Max.

 

Would it really be so awful not to have a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year? There is really no reason that Rivet and Bernier couldn't both be on the team this year other then money.

[carpandean]

Didn't you hear? Bernier was a bust. He did nothing here outside of a great first game and a couple games toward the end of the year. At least that's what I keep reading on here.

I wouldn't have called him a bust and would have like to have taken a chance on him, but it's not like the Sabres were the only ones that thought that he might be a bust. Some people still do (from a Sports Xchange article):

Steve Bernier's offensive upside has rarely been in question. But ever since he scored 14 goals in 39 games as a rookie for the San Jose Sharks four seasons ago, the ability to apply it consistently has been a concern for the 6-foot-2 power forward.

 

It's why the Sharks, who drafted him 16th overall in 2003, traded him to Buffalo at the deadline last season. And why the Sabres, who got Bernier as part of the deal for All-Star defenseman Brian Campbell, didn't hesitate to send him to the Canucks last summer in exchange for a third-round draft pick in 2009 and a second-round selection in 2010.

 

Halfway through his first season in Vancouver, it's still a concern.

 

Bernier did get a couple of good scoring chances against his old team but shot the best -- a power play one-timer -- into the pads of Brian Boucher during a 4-2 loss to San Jose.

 

.....

 

With nine goals, the 23-year-old is on pace to slightly improve on his 15-goal average the first three seasons of his career, but the alarming amount of glorious scoring chances missed has most talking about Bernier as a bust.

 

.....

 

Bernier clearly didn't have any [confidence] early after whiffing in front of empty nets on several great passes from Daniel and Henrik Sedin during a failed first-line experiment early in the season.

Kind of sounds like Stafford at the beginning of the season.

[deluca67]

or Tallinder.

They didn't plan to let Campbell go. They tried to sign him. They just butchered it out of incompetence, just like they did with Drury. And Drury's departure shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone -- once he chose not to sign in the fall, they should have immediately seen the writing on the wall.

I think it's safe to assume there was zero demand for TC and that they weren't able to get for Max what they got for Bernier (a 2nd rounder, which they needed to get Rivet).

When it comes to Max and Connolly a buyout would have been the best options. For Bernier? Why not give up one 1st instead of two 2nds? Is there any doubt this team would be better with Bernier in the lineup? The Sabres should have found a way to make it work.

 

The Sabres didn't "butcher" the Drury situation. They had a contract and were willing to pay him. Drury decided to turn his back on the franchise and head to the Rangers. If Drury wanted to be a Sabre he would be a Sabres. The Sabres were willing to pay the money.

 

And Campbell? Campbell is about as overpaid and overrated a player as you will find in the NHL. When it became apparent that he was pricing himself out of Buffalo they should have traded him earlier. They may have held on due to the sh!t storm the previous off-season caused.

[deluca67]

They would like us to believe they needed that 2nd rounder but all they needed was to dump salary because for whateer reason, they wouldn't dump Max.

 

Would it really be so awful not to have a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year? There is really no reason that Rivet and Bernier couldn't both be on the team this year other then money.

I doubt any of us really appreciate and understand the damages the $6.5 million invested in Max and Connolly has done to this franchise.

[nfreeman]

When it comes to Max and Connolly a buyout would have been the best options. For Bernier? Why not give up one 1st instead of two 2nds? Is there any doubt this team would be better with Bernier in the lineup? The Sabres should have found a way to make it work.

 

The Sabres didn't "butcher" the Drury situation. They had a contract and were willing to pay him. Drury decided to turn his back on the franchise and head to the Rangers. If Drury wanted to be a Sabre he would be a Sabres. The Sabres were willing to pay the money.

 

And Campbell? Campbell is about as overpaid and overrated a player as you will find in the NHL. When it became apparent that he was pricing himself out of Buffalo they should have traded him earlier. They may have held on due to the sh!t storm the previous off-season caused.

While I certainly would rather have Bernier on this team than Max, I'm not sure I want Bernier at $2.5 million. As you and many others have pointed out, the Sabres have really gotten themselves into trouble by committing too much money to underperforming "mid-priced" guys like Connolly, Max, Tallinder, etc.

 

As for Drury, while I agree that if he wanted to be here, he would be, but that doesn't mean the Sabres didn't butcher that situation. Another way of putting it might be that if the Sabres had performed competently, he would be here.

 

As for Campbell, I agree that he's a bit overrated, but he's also a 60-point defenseman who can play 25+ minutes per game. How many 60-point scorers (at any position) are the Sabres going to have this year? I think the Sabres' offensive dropoff this year has a lot to do with losing him. I would gladly have Campbell back on this team at the $5MM he was looking for in the summer of 2007 (but which the bozos making the decisions didn't offer him until February of 2008, by which time it was too late).

[Guest Sloth]

I doubt any of us really appreciate and understand the damages the $6.5 million invested in Max and Connolly has done to this franchise.

 

Most people were happy when Max was resigned. I don't think anyone thought he would fall to where he is now. As for Connolly, most people felt he was over paid (injury/uncertainty), but had the hope he would return quickly and return to the level of play he had in 05/06. When Connolly has the puck, teams still get rather defensive.

 

Yes, it all turned out to be a bust, but you can't predict the future. If Max continued to play good, solid hockey and emerged as a leader and Connolly remained healthy, it would have been a great investment.

[SabresFan526]

Here's the story on Bernier. The Sabres gave him his qualifying offer. I don't think Darcy had any intention of signing him for more than $1.5 million given his performance to date and the Sabres internal cap situation. I think given the fact that Gillis had already gone after David Backes, Darcy probably knew that Gillis was going to go after Bernier with an offer sheet. Given the RFA compensation, without knowing exactly what Gillis was going to offer for Bernier, they probably struck a deal that was a good compromise where it would have been better than just the second rounder had Gillis gone between $1 and $2 million and slightly worse than if he signed Bernier to a deal of $2-3 million, which Darcy probably had no intention of matching. Bernier ended up signing an offer sheet with the Blues anyway for $2.5 million that the Canucks matched after the trade with Buffalo, but that was more of a revenge move for the Backes signing. All-in-all, I still don't think Bernier has done anything to justify the $2.5 million number, especially given what Kotalik makes and the fact that he is a pretty consistent 20 goal scorer while Bernier has never eclipsed 16 goals in a season. Bernier at $1.5 is worth it, but not at $2.5 million, and with the Sabres, $1 million in cap space is a lot of money.

 

No one's going to argue the huge waste of money the Sabres have spent on Max and Connolly. But, what can you do? Nobody wants to trade for a terrible player at $3.33 million and no one wants to trade for an injury prone player who's really only had one good season in his career. Ultimately, the Sabres are not a team that is going to waste valuable cap space on buyouts. That's just not how they operate. The Sabres are a team with a very tight financial system and they cannot afford to waste cap space on a buyout because by buying out these two guys, they end up paying more if they go replacing them for similar cap numbers. For example, if the Sabres bought out Max and brought in Andy McDonald (with the exact same cap number) it costs more than just keeping Max around and hoping he plays better. Similarly, if the Sabres bought out Connolly and replaced him with like a Steve Reinprecht, it still costs more than just keeping Connolly and hoping he's healthy. I'm not going to say that what they are doing is right or that I justify that behavior, but given how the Sabres operate, we cannot expect them to fess up to their mistakes and buy players out because it wastes cap space for them and they just won't do it. Right or wrong, that's not how the Sabres operate.

[carpandean]

As for Campbell, I agree that he's a bit overrated, but he's also a 60-point defenseman who can play 25+ minutes per game. How many 60-point scorers (at any position) are the Sabres going to have this year? I think the Sabres' offensive dropoff this year has a lot to do with losing him. I would gladly have Campbell back on this team at the $5MM he was looking for in the summer of 2007 (but which the bozos making the decisions didn't offer him until February of 2008, by which time it was too late).

In pure hindsight, I would have signed Campbell, traded away Tallinder and traded to bring in Rivet. The big problem was that we had too many puck-moving finesse defensemen. However, despite his occasional defensive lapses, as pointed out, Campbell was a great offensive asset who ate big minutes of ice time. I could see pairing him with Rivet, Weber or another defensive defenseman. It would have been nice to have Campbell, Sekera and Butler for moving the puck and Rivet, Weber and (sort of) Lydman for their physical, defensive game. Again, though, there's a bit of hindsight and, at the time, I was fine with him leaving.

[nfreeman]

Most people were happy when Max was resigned. I don't think anyone thought he would fall to where he is now. As for Connolly, most people felt he was over paid (injury/uncertainty), but had the hope he would return quickly and return to the level of play he had in 05/06. When Connolly has the puck, teams still get rather defensive.

 

Yes, it all turned out to be a bust, but you can't predict the future. If Max continued to play good, solid hockey and emerged as a leader and Connolly remained healthy, it would have been a great investment.

You make very valid points. However, the response to these points, which is also quite valid, is that after last year it should have been obvious that we needed to unload those 2 by any means necessary. It sounds like Max was tradeable in the offseason, but that Darcy just didn't feel like he was getting enough value in return based on what he was offered. If that's the case, then perhaps Darcy failed to appreciate the value in getting the $3MM in budget room that unloading Max would've created. And while I don't think anyone would've traded for TC, they could've bought him out and saved an additional $1MM in budget room. With that $4MM, we probably could've gotten a pretty decent forward who would've contributed much more this year than they're getting out of Max and TC.

[carpandean]

Most people were happy when Max was resigned.

I'm sure that most people would be happy if Max were resigned (i.e., not re-signed.) :thumbsup:

[Two or less]

Didn't you hear? Bernier was a bust. He did nothing here outside of a great first game and a couple games toward the end of the year. At least that's what I keep reading on here.

 

 

Yeah you're right, even though i'm sure you're sarcastic but you're absolutely right. Bernier is a lazy player. Bernier plays when he wants to play. And Bernier has 9 goals while playing most of the season with Henrik and Daniel Sedin's, two of the best passing forwards in the world. Bernier is nothing special. When Taylor Pyatt went to Vancouver, he scored 23 goals while playing with Henrik and i wanna say Naslund and on their PP. I don't see people begging to get Pyatt back?

[SarasotaSabre]

You probably don't want to hear about me sitting in the Buffalo airport yesterday having a beer with Peter Forsberg and George Siefert then.

 

let me guess - were you talking politics?.... :beer:

[Bmwolf21]

Yeah you're right, even though i'm sure you're sarcastic but you're absolutely right. Bernier is a lazy player. Bernier plays when he wants to play. And Bernier has 9 goals while playing most of the season with Henrik and Daniel Sedin's, two of the best passing forwards in the world. Bernier is nothing special. When Taylor Pyatt went to Vancouver, he scored 23 goals while playing with Henrik and i wanna say Naslund and on their PP. I don't see people begging to get Pyatt back?

I'd like to see the numbers as to how many games Bernier has played on the Sedin Twins' line versus what Pyatt did. Bernier has 9 goals through 43 games, putting him on pace for 17 or so in approx. 80 games. Not too far off what Pyatt did.

 

Also, I don't know if you remember, but when Pyatt started putting up his points there certainly were people wishing the Sabres hadn't moved him and saying that Pyatt's produciton just proved that Pyatt could put up numbers if he played more than 9-10 minutes a game.

 

The rest of your post - is lazy, plays when he wants to play, etc - is just your opinion, and until I see coaches come out and call out his effort, focus and work ethic, I'm going to continue to believe that it's nothing more than a young (24) player who needs to mature and needs to get his confidence up before he can be counted on higher than the 3rd line.

 

All this being said, I'd take him over Max any day of the week. At least Bernier has the potential and possibility of improving.

[Two or less]

I'd like to see the numbers as to how many games Bernier has played on the Sedin Twins' line versus what Pyatt did. Bernier has 9 goals through 43 games, putting him on pace for 17 or so in approx. 80 games. Not too far off what Pyatt did.

 

Also, I don't know if you remember, but when Pyatt started putting up his points there certainly were people wishing the Sabres hadn't moved him and saying that Pyatt's produciton just proved that Pyatt could put up numbers if he played more than 9-10 minutes a game.

 

The rest of your post - is lazy, plays when he wants to play, etc - is just your opinion, and until I see coaches come out and call out his effort, focus and work ethic, I'm going to continue to believe that it's nothing more than a young (24) player who needs to mature and needs to get his confidence up before he can be counted on higher than the 3rd line.

 

All this being said, I'd take him over Max any day of the week. At least Bernier has the potential and possibility of improving.

 

If i had to choose between Max and Bernier, i'd pick Bernier as well. But that wasn't an option. This isn't a video game for gods sake. There are many other reasons why i'd take Bernier over Max. Even if Max scores a few times more, i'd still go with the 23 year old guy over a 28 year old. But that's just me. So common sense would take Bernier....

 

I'm not the only one who's opinion it is that he's lazy. He's now been on 3 teams in less then a year. I'm not genius, but that's usually not a very good sign for a player. The same people who wanted Pyatt back after he started scoring when Vancouver held his hand, are the same people who miss Bernier, who also are the same people who wish there was a way for Drury to return.... same old song. It ain't happening, Bernier having 9 goals playing on the top line in Vancouver with 2 passing forwards means nothing to me. Check out Vancouver forums, Bernier has been their "Max" for most of the season.

[Guest Sloth]

You make very valid points. However, the response to these points, which is also quite valid, is that after last year it should have been obvious that we needed to unload those 2 by any means necessary. It sounds like Max was tradeable in the offseason, but that Darcy just didn't feel like he was getting enough value in return based on what he was offered. If that's the case, then perhaps Darcy failed to appreciate the value in getting the $3MM in budget room that unloading Max would've created. And while I don't think anyone would've traded for TC, they could've bought him out and saved an additional $1MM in budget room. With that $4MM, we probably could've gotten a pretty decent forward who would've contributed much more this year than they're getting out of Max and TC.

 

I don't think anyone can argue w/ the points you made. :thumbsup:

[Bmwolf21]

If i had to choose between Max and Bernier, i'd pick Bernier as well. But that wasn't an option. This isn't a video game for gods sake. There are many other reasons why i'd take Bernier over Max. Even if Max scores a few times more, i'd still go with the 23 year old guy over a 28 year old. But that's just me. So common sense would take Bernier....

 

I'm not the only one who's opinion it is that he's lazy. He's now been on 3 teams in less then a year. I'm not genius, but that's usually not a very good sign for a player. The same people who wanted Pyatt back after he started scoring when Vancouver held his hand, are the same people who miss Bernier, who also are the same people who wish there was a way for Drury to return.... same old song. It ain't happening, Bernier having 9 goals playing on the top line in Vancouver with 2 passing forwards means nothing to me. Check out Vancouver forums, Bernier has been their "Max" for most of the season.

While I have no clue WTF "it's not a video game for gods sake" means, all this is still just a fan's opinion and interpretation. Three teams in less than year? Doesn't necessarily mean that it's the player. Sometimes it's just a numbers game. A glut of wingers and salary cap implications in Buffalo made Bernier the odd man out. San Jose was making a push for a deep playoff run, so they had to give up something to get Soupy. Buffalo wanted a young player with upside, so they took Bernier.

 

Even if he is a "lazy" player at 23/24 years old, I doubt the Sabres would give up on him so quickly. Lets not forget that Lindy has been harping on our leading scorer's effort and work ethic for the better part of his time in Buffalo, and this year has been the year he's really put it together in playing both ends of the rink, more consistent effort from shift to shift and night to night. I can't imagine how bad Bernier would have to be for Lindy to give up on him after 17 games.

 

And I put as much stock in what's said on the Vancouver forums as I do some of the ones here or on Sabres.com or LGS.com. Frankly, most of those opinions mean nothing - it's just a different bunch of whiny fans who stomp their feet and pout when the results aren't immediate.

[SabresFan526]

Well, here's another Eklund doozy:

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rumo...st-Star/1/18827

 

Predicting a trade involving Kesler and Stafford. I don't really believe this rumor considering the source, but I figured I'd let you all know about it. Here's what I do think, though. I do think that Stafford will not be a member of the 2009-2010 Buffalo Sabres if not sooner. Given the offer sheet that Bernier got over the summer from St. Louis (and most likely would have gotten from Vancouver had Darcy not traded him), I really do believe that Stafford will definitely get an offer sheet this summer. If he is still with the Sabres by July 1st, I seriously think that an offer sheet Stafford signs will be too much for Buffalo and they will accept whatever compensation they get in return. I don't think I'm going out on the limb by saying this, but I seriously do not think that Stafford will be a member of the Buffalo Sabres next year, and I think it'd be a good decision for Darcy to trade for him and see what we can get in return now. There is just no way the Sabres can pay Vanek, Miller, Roy, and Pominville big money and have enough cap space as well as their own internal budget to keep Drew Stafford on the roster next year. But this is my opinion and my speculation

[stenbaro]

Well, here's another Eklund doozy:

 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rumo...st-Star/1/18827

 

Predicting a trade involving Kesler and Stafford. I don't really believe this rumor considering the source, but I figured I'd let you all know about it. Here's what I do think, though. I do think that Stafford will not be a member of the 2009-2010 Buffalo Sabres if not sooner. Given the offer sheet that Bernier got over the summer from St. Louis (and most likely would have gotten from Vancouver had Darcy not traded him), I really do believe that Stafford will definitely get an offer sheet this summer. If he is still with the Sabres by July 1st, I seriously think that an offer sheet Stafford signs will be too much for Buffalo and they will accept whatever compensation they get in return. I don't think I'm going out on the limb by saying this, but I seriously do not think that Stafford will be a member of the Buffalo Sabres next year, and I think it'd be a good decision for Darcy to trade for him and see what we can get in return now. There is just no way the Sabres can pay Vanek, Miller, Roy, and Pominville big money and have enough cap space as well as their own internal budget to keep Drew Stafford on the roster next year. But this is my opinion and my speculation

http://forums.sabrespace.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=130561

[rickshaw]

Bernier has not played a lot with the Sedins. He started the year there, but it last 3 or 4 games. He's been on every line, as well as the 4th line.

 

He has been playing with Burrows and Kesler a lot lately and it was the best line for Van against Edmonton last week. All the attention went to the twins and the Sundin line.

 

I'd say Bernier has played between 10 - 15 games with the Sedins this year.

 

He's still trying to find his way, but I like him. He's got some upside. Buffalo should have tried to keep him but they can't keep 'em all.

[deluca67]

Most people were happy when Max was resigned. I don't think anyone thought he would fall to where he is now. As for Connolly, most people felt he was over paid (injury/uncertainty), but had the hope he would return quickly and return to the level of play he had in 05/06. When Connolly has the puck, teams still get rather defensive.

 

Yes, it all turned out to be a bust, but you can't predict the future. If Max continued to play good, solid hockey and emerged as a leader and Connolly remained healthy, it would have been a great investment.

Isn't that the job of the General Manager? Max, with the exception of two seasons has been a disappointment. They had to have known it was a strong possibility that he would fall back into his old habits. They ignore the history and got burned. As far as Connolly, didn't the acknowledge the risk of signing a player with injury issues when the contract was announced? He may have been injured at the time the contract was signed. That certainly falls on the front office. There really wasn't any "predictions"to be done. Just simple analysis should have steered the front office in the right directions.

 

And honestly, was "If Max continued to play good, solid hockey and emerged as a leader" ever a legitimate possibility. Solid hockey and leadership are not and never were part of Max's game.

[Bmwolf21]

Bernier has not played a lot with the Sedins. He started the year there, but it last 3 or 4 games. He's been on every line, as well as the 4th line.

 

He has been playing with Burrows and Kesler a lot lately and it was the best line for Van against Edmonton last week. All the attention went to the twins and the Sundin line.

 

I'd say Bernier has played between 10 - 15 games with the Sedins this year.

 

He's still trying to find his way, but I like him. He's got some upside. Buffalo should have tried to keep him but they can't keep 'em all.

Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't remember which poster was out in Canucks territory and could comment on whose line Bernier has been playing on this year, and since I no longer have the CI package I haven't seen any of the Canucks this year.

[stenbaro]

While I have no clue WTF "it's not a video game for gods sake" means, all this is still just a fan's opinion and interpretation. Three teams in less than year? Doesn't necessarily mean that it's the player. Sometimes it's just a numbers game. A glut of wingers and salary cap implications in Buffalo made Bernier the odd man out. San Jose was making a push for a deep playoff run, so they had to give up something to get Soupy. Buffalo wanted a young player with upside, so they took Bernier.

Even if he is a "lazy" player at 23/24 years old, I doubt the Sabres would give up on him so quickly. Lets not forget that Lindy has been harping on our leading scorer's effort and work ethic for the better part of his time in Buffalo, and this year has been the year he's really put it together in playing both ends of the rink, more consistent effort from shift to shift and night to night. I can't imagine how bad Bernier would have to be for Lindy to give up on him after 17 games.

 

And I put as much stock in what's said on the Vancouver forums as I do some of the ones here or on Sabres.com or LGS.com. Frankly, most of those opinions mean nothing - it's just a different bunch of whiny fans who stomp their feet and pout when the results aren't immediate.

I always wondered what the defintion of "lazy player" looked like defined.. :doh:

[Bmwolf21]

I always wondered what the defintion of "lazy player" looked like defined.. :doh:

Probably the same as a "descending player"...