The Skill could be returning this week!!!!!

[Knightrider]

He was asked a question. The last time he refused to answer, everyone and anyone read into it how frustrated he has become by the whole situation.

 

And that is two things that can be indisputable to most rational people.

 

 

1) It is more frustrating to the team and coaches then it is to fans when he is constantly out of the line up

 

2) When he is playing, he makes them better.

 

Whether they take a step forward when he plays, but step further back when he inevitably leaves is the only thing truly up for debate.

 

I don't even know that that is debatable. When he is playing, he makes them better. If he gets hurt again, their playoff chances take a huge hit, and I think it would only be natural for them to let down.

 

Connolly is the key to the playoffs. I can certainly feel the frustration that that concept causes, whether it be Lindy, the fans, or Timmy, but it is what it is.

[Knightrider]

What victory? What opponent? I agreed with you on everything except your allegation that he is a defensive liability, which you retracted. I also stayed away from your random swipes at Briere on the theory that there is no point arguing with you about him anything, since for some reason he makes you're insane.

 

j/k dl67

 

;)

[shrader]

He was asked a question. The last time he refused to answer, everyone and anyone read into it how frustrated he has become by the whole situation.

 

I don't know what the exact question was, but it wasn't exactly the longest of answers. He could've said far less than he did. He meant every word of that quote, which, by the way, was a perfectly reasonable thing to say. Personally, I think that anyone who would think otherwise is closing in on deluca territory.

 

But yeah, you said you weren't picking sides, so that goes out to those that have.

[deluca67]

What victory? What opponent? I agreed with you on everything except your allegation that he is a defensive liability, which you retracted. I also stayed away from your random swipes at Briere on the theory that there is no point arguing with you about him, since for some reason he makes you insane.

Sorry, I really hate when posters start nit picking spelling and things like that. Not just my posts but others as well. It's a very common practice at TSW when posters try to use it to stray away from the argument.

[deluca67]

I don't even know that that is debatable. When he is playing, he makes them better. If he gets hurt again, their playoff chances take a huge hit, and I think it would only be natural for them to let down.

 

Connolly is the key to the playoffs. I can certainly feel the frustration that that concept causes, whether it be Lindy, the fans, or Timmy, but it is what it is.

Connolly is not the key. The key to the playoffs is the core group of Miller, Vanek, Roy and Pominville. They are the heart of the team and will be the determining factor in the Sabres make the playoffs. It was said earlier in the season. If Connolly can stay healthy enough to add anything it must be considered bonus. If Regier is holding off making moves with the idea that a healthy Connolly can get his team into the playoffs Regier needs to be fired. Anyone in the organization carrying the torch for Connolly will end up setting the Sabres playoff hopes ablaze with it.

[Stoner]

The first sign of victory is when your opponent has to resort breaking down grammar and spelling. :thumbsup:

 

"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

 

Winston Churchill

 

It means nothing to this discussion, really. I just thought it was a cool quote. I thought Churchill had said something about "the first sign of victory," but I guess not.

[nfreeman]

Connolly is not the key. The key to the playoffs is the core group of Miller, Vanek, Roy and Pominville. They are the heart of the team and will be the determining factor in the Sabres make the playoffs. It was said earlier in the season. If Connolly can stay healthy enough to add anything it must be considered bonus. If Regier is holding off making moves with the idea that a healthy Connolly can get his team into the playoffs Regier needs to be fired. Anyone in the organization carrying the torch for Connolly will end up setting the Sabres playoff hopes ablaze with it.

100% correct, although I would add a few guys to the core -- Rivet, Gaustad, and maybe Lydman and Sekera.

[gregkash]

I don't see how anyone can be opposed to Connolly coming back at this point in time.

[K-9]

Let's see, DeLuca vs. Ruff, whom do we believe?

 

“We know that if we can get him healthy and get him back and get him playing, we know what he can mean to us? I would love to get him in and playing well because before he went out he was playing well and a guy that we used in every situation.” ?Lindy on Tim Connolly

 

Y'know, PA, there is just NO point in furthering any discussions regarding TC. It's OBVIOUS to anyone, Ruff included, what TC can mean to the team when he's 100%. Anyone with eyes and a modicum of understanding of the game can see that. And from a medical standpoint it's also obvious that, aside from the related concussions, NONE of the injuries has anything to do with the other. No correlation what so ever. There may be a link to his groin problems from last year to trying to get back in the line-up too soon. But that's it. Ironically, the desire that some around here find him lacking in actually contributed to his groin problems last year.

 

This is also obvious to me: that those who trash him the most and are most frustrated by his absence are the ones that TRULY know his value to this team when healthy. Think about it. Would anyone invest so much negative energy into something they've really see nothign in? Would anyone HAVE to find fault with the PERSON for sustaining these SERIOUS unrelated injuries if they really didn't care so much?

 

Timmy was just learning to play at the NHL level when he first got seriously hurt against Ottawa in the playoffs. The limited time he's been in the line-up since continues to back that up. Why anyone wouldn't welcome him back is beyond me.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[shrader]

Just to be clear K-9, it was a hip last year. The injury that was directly tied into him trying to rush back into the lineup was the stress fracture in his leg back at the end of the 2006-07 season. I also wouldn't be surprised to see something in the future that suggests that further injuries are more likely after suffering a serious head injury, but we're miles away from documentation to back up that idea.

[Kristian]

Timmy was just learning to play at the NHL level when he first got hurt seriously hurt against Ottawa in the playoffs. The limited time he's been in the line-up since continues to back that up. Why anyone wouldn't welcome him back is beyond me.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Because people have lost any faith that he will remain healthy over any lenght of time, and his absence and cap hit is leaving us desperately short at center.

 

I doubt anyone here wouldn't be thrilled to have a healthy TC in the line-up for the home-stretch and hopefully post-season, but that's like waiting for Santa to drop down your chimney on christmas night.

 

At this point, people want his salary off the books so the front office has one less excuse not to upgrade the team at center.

 

This is a team with a self-imposed salary cap, and while there is nothing wrong with that as such, it ceases to make sense if you have players on your roster that play less than 25% of your games for 3+ seasons. Especially when it's a somewhat pricey player.

[inkman]

Would anyone invest so much negative energy into something they've really see nothign in?

I do, only because so many posters are still holding onto the hope that Connolly is the savior. He's physically incapable of being that guy. So let it go. He will not have any positive impact on the team this year. I had almost literally forgot about The Skill, until this thread that is. Most of my frustration is directed at Darcy for relying on this guy. He should have been counted on as a role player like Peters. An extra forward that may play a handful of games. A scoring center (call him #1 or #2) should have been brought in, just like they tried to address the D with Rivet. They needed to address the forwards but instead, they relied on The Skill, who has PROVEN he can't be.

[shrader]

Because people have lost any faith that he will remain healthy over any lenght of time, and his absence and cap hit is leaving us desperately short at center.

 

I doubt anyone here wouldn't be thrilled to have a healthy TC in the line-up for the home-stretch and hopefully post-season, but that's like waiting for Santa to drop down your chimney on christmas night.

 

At this point, people want his salary off the books so the front office has one less excuse not to upgrade the team at center.

 

This is a team with a self-imposed salary cap, and while there is nothing wrong with that as such, it ceases to make sense if you have players on your roster that play less than 25% of your games for 3+ seasons. Especially when it's a somewhat pricey player.

 

So they're supposed to dump him now and get absolutely no return at all for that money? What's done is done. They can't go back and not sign that contract or buy him out at the start of the season. They're paying him whether or not he plays. Since this team is so budget conscious, shouldn't they actually expect something, even if it is only 10 games, in return for that money?

 

His salary is there, it cannot go away unless he's traded. Do you really think that is a realistic option?

[SabresFan526]

Just to be clear K-9, it was a hip last year. The injury that was directly tied into him trying to rush back into the lineup was the stress fracture in his leg back at the end of the 2006-07 season. I also wouldn't be surprised to see something in the future that suggests that further injuries are more likely after suffering a serious head injury, but we're miles away from documentation to back up that idea.

Aside from Connolly, do you have some other examples? I can think of Eric Lindros, but for him it was mostly the concussions than anything else that limited his effectiveness. I don't remember him sustaining any other nagging injuries subsequent to his serious concussions although he did have that punctured lung, but I don't see how that in any way relates to the concussions. Even with LaFontaine he had many a nagging injury before his major concussions which ultimately ended his career. I think the same is probably true for Adam Deadmarsh and Jason Allison who both ended their careers because of concussions not nagging injuries subsequent to their concussions. Maybe the closest might be Forsberg as he's had a few concussions, but the bulk of his problem these days seem to be his foot and the impact it has on the rest of his leg and causing him groin problems. Interesting theory, but I'd be interested in seeing some other examples in addition to Connolly.

[shrader]

Aside from Connolly, do you have some other examples? I can think of Eric Lindros, but for him it was mostly the concussions than anything else that limited his effectiveness. I don't remember him sustaining any other nagging injuries subsequent to his serious concussions although he did have that punctured lung, but I don't see how that in any way relates to the concussions. Even with LaFontaine he had many a nagging injury before his major concussions which ultimately ended his career. I think the same is probably true for Adam Deadmarsh and Jason Allison who both ended their careers because of concussions not nagging injuries subsequent to their concussions. Maybe the closest might be Forsberg as he's had a few concussions, but the bulk of his problem these days seem to be his foot and the impact it has on the rest of his leg and causing him groin problems. Interesting theory, but I'd be interested in seeing some other examples in addition to Connolly.

 

It's just an idea. You'd have to look well beyond just hockey. I'm not going to throw examples out there since I don't know people's injury histories too well, maybe a guy like Paul Kariya. But anyway, I'm sure some head injury researchers out there will have a look at it at some point if they haven't already.

[K-9]

Because people have lost any faith that he will remain healthy over any lenght of time, and his absence and cap hit is leaving us desperately short at center.

 

I doubt anyone here wouldn't be thrilled to have a healthy TC in the line-up for the home-stretch and hopefully post-season, but that's like waiting for Santa to drop down your chimney on christmas night.

 

At this point, people want his salary off the books so the front office has one less excuse not to upgrade the team at center.

 

This is a team with a self-imposed salary cap, and while there is nothing wrong with that as such, it ceases to make sense if you have players on your roster that play less than 25% of your games for 3+ seasons. Especially when it's a somewhat pricey player.

 

I appreciate what you're getting at. But we have to get past this idea that the organization SHOULD have seen these injuries coming. We have to get past the 20/20 hindsight game of "he's only played x amount of games for x amount of money." It's easy to say NOW that they've not gotten the return they wanted. It's also just as easy to say that if he had remained healthy the entire time his salary would be considered a bargain.

 

The simple fact is neither you, me, TC, or anyone in the Sabres organization can PREDICT another injury will occur. As much as we'd all LIKE to, we just can't say that because he's sustained multiple injuries in the past it's going to happen again. No DOCTOR can/will say that either. All they can say is, when it comes to concussions, his next one will most likely be worse and easier to sustain. That's it. There is no correlation between ANY of his other injuries and the risk of sustaining another. If his rib is healed he is as likely as anyone else to break it again. If his vertabrae are healed, he's as likely as anyone to crack them again. If his knee sprain is healed he's as likely as anyone to absorb another cheap shot from a Kasparitis as anyone. The only concern would be his vulnerability to muscle strains and pulls given a lack of game conditioning. But, like Rivet and anyone else coming off a long layoff, he'll have to be aware of that. As will/are the training staff.

 

Let me pose a hypothetical: if TC comes back and plays the ENTIRE rest of the year at the level he's displayed prior to his latest injury, would the Sabres be able to just dump him and get anyone as talented to replace him?

 

GO SABRES!!!

[K-9]

I do, only because so many posters are still holding onto the hope that Connolly is the savior. He's physically incapable of being that guy. So let it go. He will not have any positive impact on the team this year. I had almost literally forgot about The Skill, until this thread that is. Most of my frustration is directed at Darcy for relying on this guy. He should have been counted on as a role player like Peters. An extra forward that may play a handful of games. A scoring center (call him #1 or #2) should have been brought in, just like they tried to address the D with Rivet. They needed to address the forwards but instead, they relied on The Skill, who has PROVEN he can't be.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've only seen Connolly as just another cog in the machine. One they've sorely missed. Savior? Unless we're talking SUPERSTAR along the lines of Ovechkin, etc., they just don't exist. If Rivet should go down again, how long before he starts getting the same treatment?

 

GO SABRES!!!

[deluca67]

So they're supposed to dump him now and get absolutely no return at all for that money? What's done is done. They can't go back and not sign that contract or buy him out at the start of the season. They're paying him whether or not he plays. Since this team is so budget conscious, shouldn't they actually expect something, even if it is only 10 games, in return for that money?

 

His salary is there, it cannot go away unless he's traded. Do you really think that is a realistic option?

The money is already spent. It was a bad investment with little return. It is silly to think that the last 43 games of the contract is going to garner any significant return. The money investment is gone, that doesn't mean you still can't save the time and the ice time and use it for a better purpose.

[carpandean]

I appreciate what you're getting at. But we have to get past this idea that the organization SHOULD have seen these injuries coming. We have to get past the 20/20 hindsight game of "he's only played x amount of games for x amount of money." It's easy to say NOW that they've not gotten the return they wanted. It's also just as easy to say that if he had remained healthy the entire time his salary would be considered a bargain.

You could make that argument for back when he signed his contract (though, they knew that he'd miss most of 2006-07) and even last year. Going into this year, however, they should have known two things: (1) there was a chance that Timmy had become injury-prone (not assume that he would be injured again, but note that he had multiple "little" injuries last year in addition to the bone spur), and (2) there is no viable replacement on the roster to step in should #1 prove correct again this season. It is #2 that really pisses me off. I can understand the arguments for not buying him out and seeing if they could get a full season out of him, which at his salary would be a good deal (sort of making back some of the money invested in the first two years of his contract), but for Darcy to say "whether we are good at center will depend on Tim's health; he looks good now, so we're OK at center" during this past offseason was insane. They tried that same stance last year and it was one of the things that really burned them. To do it again meets Einstein's (alleged) definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Count on him as a top-six winger or third-line center, but not as one of only two scoring-line-capable centers on the roster.

[shrader]

The money is already spent. It was a bad investment with little return. It is silly to think that the last 43 games of the contract is going to garner any significant return. The money investment is gone, that doesn't mean you still can't save the time and the ice time and use it for a better purpose.

 

Sure, go ahead and conveniently ignore the rest of the post. They are very budget conscious. They are not going to bring in someone else for additional money, especially when Connolly is actually there, ready to fill a roster spot. Like it or not, that's the way they operate.

[deluca67]

I appreciate what you're getting at. But we have to get past this idea that the organization SHOULD have seen these injuries coming. We have to get past the 20/20 hindsight game of "he's only played x amount of games for x amount of money." It's easy to say NOW that they've not gotten the return they wanted. It's also just as easy to say that if he had remained healthy the entire time his salary would be considered a bargain.

 

The simple fact is neither you, me, TC, or anyone in the Sabres organization can PREDICT another injury will occur. As much as we'd all LIKE to, we just can't say that because he's sustained multiple injuries in the past it's going to happen again. No DOCTOR can/will say that either. All they can say is, when it comes to concussions, his next one will most likely be worse and easier to sustain. That's it. There is no correlation between ANY of his other injuries and the risk of sustaining another. If his rib is healed he is as likely as anyone else to break it again. If his vertabrae are healed, he's as likely as anyone to crack them again. If his knee sprain is healed he's as likely as anyone to absorb another cheap shot from a Kasparitis as anyone. The only concern would be his vulnerability to muscle strains and pulls given a lack of game conditioning. But, like Rivet and anyone else coming off a long layoff, he'll have to be aware of that. As will/are the training staff.

 

Let me pose a hypothetical: if TC comes back and plays the ENTIRE rest of the year at the level he's displayed prior to his latest injury, would the Sabres be able to just dump him and get anyone as talented to replace him?

 

GO SABRES!!!

That's so funny, I seem to recall myself and others predicting injuries for Connolly this season. I believe there is a thread where posters guessed how many games Connolly will miss. I really don't see it as going out on a limb to say Connolly won't play all of the remaining games.

 

Do you think Connolly would sign for the league minimum? If the Sabres brought him back for anything more they would be laughed at more than the Bills have been laughed at for bringing Jauron back. The Sabres have already spent a popular player in Peca and millions of dollars on Connolly. If they can't walk away at this point it has to be for more than hockey reasons.

[K-9]

Just to be clear K-9, it was a hip last year. The injury that was directly tied into him trying to rush back into the lineup was the stress fracture in his leg back at the end of the 2006-07 season. I also wouldn't be surprised to see something in the future that suggests that further injuries are more likely after suffering a serious head injury, but we're miles away from documentation to back up that idea.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I remember now.

 

Regarding head injuries, when it comes to concussions, there is a large body of data that suggests they are easier to sustain and typically worse in nature with each occurrence especially relative to the time intervals between concussions.

 

I would be VERY surprised to see any future link between concussions and a higher likelihood of any other type of injury in general.

 

I WOULD be suprised to see the medical community accept and define the term "injury prone" when it relates to anything other than an already existing condition.

 

Aside from concussions, TC isn't any more "prone" to injury than anyone else in the absence of an unrelated condition. We and the media like to use the term "prone" as a way of explaining coincidence and frequency. Medically speaking, however, it's not good science.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[deluca67]

Sure, go ahead and conveniently ignore the rest of the post. They are very budget conscious. They are not going to bring in someone else for additional money, especially when Connolly is actually there, ready to fill a roster spot. Like it or not, that's the way they operate.

They already have, the Sabres will keep a extra forward. At some point the Sabres will have to realize that the ice time will be better spent on a player with a long term future. By trying to squeeze something out of Connolly all they are doing is wasting more valuable resources. The Sabres need to put their ego aside and do what's best for the franchise long term. You are right though, they won't.

[shrader]

Thanks for the clarification. I remember now.

 

Regarding head injuries, when it comes to concussions, there is a large body of data that suggests they are easier to sustain and typically worse in nature with each occurrence especially relative to the time intervals between concussions.

 

I would be VERY surprised to see any future link between concussions and a higher likelihood of any other type of injury in general.

 

I WOULD be suprised to see the medical community accept and define the term "injury prone" when it relates to anything other than an already existing condition.

 

Aside from concussions, TC isn't any more "prone" to injury than anyone else in the absence of an unrelated condition. We and the media like to use the term "prone" as a way of explaining coincidence and frequency. Medically speaking, however, it's not good science.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

It all comes down to what is or isn't related. With the brain being so sophisticated and unknown to the medical community, we still have no idea how much a concussion can really change things.

 

But yeah, I'm fine with everything you're saying about the "injury prone" label. They'll never go with that label, especially with what the typical person thinks when they hear it. They'll stick with their own terms like likelihood or risk instead, which at the end of the day really mean pretty much the same thing but have very different interpretations.

[nfreeman]

You could make that argument for back when he signed his contract (though, they knew that he'd miss most of 2006-07) and even last year. Going into this year, however, they should have known two things: (1) there was a chance that Timmy had become injury-prone (not assume that he would be injured again, but note that he had multiple "little" injuries last year in addition to the bone spur), and (2) there is no viable replacement on the roster to step in should #1 prove correct again this season. It is #2 that really pisses me off. I can understand the arguments for not buying him out and seeing if they could get a full season out of him, which at his salary would be a good deal (sort of making back some of the money invested in the first two years of his contract), but for Darcy to say "whether we are good at center will depend on Tim's health; he looks good now, so we're OK at center" during this past offseason was insane. They tried that same stance last year and it was one of the things that really burned them. To do it again meets Einstein's (alleged) definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Count on him as a top-six winger or third-line center, but not as one of only two scoring-line-capable centers on the roster.

I think he was saying that as spin control because there was nothing else he could say. I can't imagine any GM publicly admitting the truth -- no one was going to take TC's salary off of their hands, and they didn't have the money to go out and get another center (b/c a buyout would only have saved them $1MM).

 

Thanks for the clarification. I remember now.

 

Regarding head injuries, when it comes to concussions, there is a large body of data that suggests they are easier to sustain and typically worse in nature with each occurrence especially relative to the time intervals between concussions.

 

I would be VERY surprised to see any future link between concussions and a higher likelihood of any other type of injury in general.

 

I WOULD be suprised to see the medical community accept and define the term "injury prone" when it relates to anything other than an already existing condition.

 

Aside from concussions, TC isn't any more "prone" to injury than anyone else in the absence of an unrelated condition. We and the media like to use the term "prone" as a way of explaining coincidence and frequency. Medically speaking, however, it's not good science.

 

GO SABRES!!!

I don't agree with this in a professional sports context. I think you have to be somewhat of a freak of nature to have a body that can take the pounding of being an NHL player. Most of us don't have that kind of body, and TC doesn't either. Rob Johnson was the same way.