Mbossy Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=ap-coyotes-bankruptcy&prov=ap&type=lgns dun dun daaah....
ROC Sabres Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 How much money is there in Hamilton anyway? Money: ??? Market: > Phoenix
apuszczalowski Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Money: ??? Market: > Phoenix I think the money is more in Phoenix, Hamilton is mostly a "blue collar" town. The thing is that hamilton has more hockey fans that are discouraged with the Leafs cause they can't afford the tickets o a leafs game. They all think Balsillie will price the ticket more affordable and that tickets will be easier to get then Toronto. This will be a huge hit to the Sabres, not just in losing potential fans, but they are losing a huge chunk of their exclusive potential market area that they have been struggling to expand into. The Sabres maket, being different because its a border town, has a big chunk of their territory in Niagara and Southern Ontario, an area they have not been able to maximise, and now, with a team moving in and taking part of that market, it limits where they can market. Most Canadians are going to chose the Hamilton team over the Sabres because they are Canadian, thats the way most of us Canadians are
Eleven Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 This will be true even though they [southern Ontario fans] still cannot access any Sabres games on TV in Southern Ontario still. Now that this thread is reactivated, I want to revisit this (it caught my attention last month, too, but I didn't follow up). What's up with this? I sorta want to dig into the issue, for the sake of curiosity. I know you're correct, but any details as to why it's this way?
spndnchz Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Posted August 6, 2009 Now that this thread is reactivated, I want to revisit this (it caught my attention last month, too, but I didn't follow up). What's up with this? I sorta want to dig into the issue, for the sake of curiosity. I know you're correct, but any details as to why it's this way? I would assume the TV rights are to Toronto, not Buffalo. With Rogers being the cable supplier. (actually quite a story, that Mr Rogers.)
wonderbread Posted August 6, 2009 Report Posted August 6, 2009 Basille is back in the hunt as per TSN. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=286860
apuszczalowski Posted August 22, 2009 Report Posted August 22, 2009 Now that this thread is reactivated, I want to revisit this (it caught my attention last month, too, but I didn't follow up). What's up with this? I sorta want to dig into the issue, for the sake of curiosity. I know you're correct, but any details as to why it's this way? The problem is with the territorial rights and the closest TV station to carry the games. Niagara's only tv station is the local Cogeco (Cable provider) Cable channel, which is almost like a cable access TV station. It's mostly just Niagara College Broadcasting students airing "local stories" in a loop, along with broadcasts of local municipal government council meetings, and Niagara Ice Dog Games. They can' afford to pay to broadcast Sabres games. The next closest station is CHCH in Hamilton, and because they broadcast into Toronto, it would infringe into Leafs territory and involve the Sabres having to pay them. In Niagara, we get some Buffalo stations, mostly just the affiliates for ABC, NBC, CBS, but none that would cover the Sabres games. Its been an issue the Sabres have been trying to work out for a while, but don't have a solution for. Putting a team in Hamilton will almost eliminate any kind of TV deal they could get to Niagara. The issue isn't really with the Sabres losing ticket sales. If Buffalo is cheaper, perople will still cross the border to go to a game. The issue is that Buffalo is going to lose a potential market that they have sole rights to at the moment. The Sabres are in a tough spot compared to other teams because they are so close to the border, and have a market that stretches accross 2 countries and a border. In comparison, this would be like telling the Leafs that they no longer have exclusive marketing rights to Mississauga and everything west. I think its funny how gullible his supporters are. They all just hear him say he is doing this to bring another team to Canada, but he is not, he is doing this to bring a team to Hamilton, if he was told that he could put the team back in Winnipeg or Quebec City, and he would not have to pay a relocation fee, he would turn it down. They all think that just because he is worth Billions, and a hockey fan, that he will do whatever it takes to win. that might work for the first little bit, but if he starts losing money, and in a "Blue Collar" "Steel Town" like Hamilton, its possible, he may just look at the bottom line to stay out of the red. This Billionaire is already costing the Ontario Taxpayers $120-130 million to upgrade Copps so he can have a "state of the art" arena for his new toy, he will contribute $5 million for this, and be given control of the arena pretty much. There has to be a reason, or something we, the public, don't know about him and the situation that would make the owners, who I'm sure enjoy making more money, to turn down Balsillies apparently slam dunk offer to make Millions by relocating a team that apparently has no chance to ever survive to Hamilton. He might not be the worst person ethically to ever be approved as an owner of an NHL team, but he is no perfect angel. He has had a few situations recently that have shown he is a guy who thinks that just because he has money, he doesn't have to play by the rules (the Nortel auction) and has paid some huge fines with RIM for shady dealings.
Eleven Posted August 22, 2009 Report Posted August 22, 2009 The problem is with the territorial rights and the closest TV station to carry the games. Niagara's only tv station is the local Cogeco (Cable provider) Cable channel, which is almost like a cable access TV station. It's mostly just Niagara College Broadcasting students airing "local stories" in a loop, along with broadcasts of local municipal government council meetings, and Niagara Ice Dog Games. They can' afford to pay to broadcast Sabres games. The next closest station is CHCH in Hamilton, and because they broadcast into Toronto, it would infringe into Leafs territory and involve the Sabres having to pay them. In Niagara, we get some Buffalo stations, mostly just the affiliates for ABC, NBC, CBS, but none that would cover the Sabres games. Its been an issue the Sabres have been trying to work out for a while, but don't have a solution for. Putting a team in Hamilton will almost eliminate any kind of TV deal they could get to Niagara. The issue isn't really with the Sabres losing ticket sales. If Buffalo is cheaper, perople will still cross the border to go to a game. The issue is that Buffalo is going to lose a potential market that they have sole rights to at the moment. The Sabres are in a tough spot compared to other teams because they are so close to the border, and have a market that stretches accross 2 countries and a border. In comparison, this would be like telling the Leafs that they no longer have exclusive marketing rights to Mississauga and everything west. I see. Is there no cable option? Are cable providers in Southern Ont.'s smaller cities the same as the cable provider(s) for Toronto?
apuszczalowski Posted August 22, 2009 Report Posted August 22, 2009 I see. Is there no cable option? Are cable providers in Southern Ont.'s smaller cities the same as the cable provider(s) for Toronto? The only ones that I know off hand in Southern Ontario is Rogers Cable, and Cogeco Cable. Cogeco is found in Niagara, and Rogers is more Toronto area. The problem is that there are no television stations in Niagara to host the Sabres games, also, we can't get the station you get that carrys the games. So Centre Ice is the only option, and I only live 25 minutes to the peace bridge
Eleven Posted August 22, 2009 Report Posted August 22, 2009 The only ones that I know off hand in Southern Ontario is Rogers Cable, and Cogeco Cable. Cogeco is found in Niagara, and Rogers is more Toronto area. The problem is that there are no television stations in Niagara to host the Sabres games, also, we can't get the station you get that carrys the games. So Centre Ice is the only option, and I only live 25 minutes to the peace bridge You shouldn't need a local station to host anything, the way you would if the games were actually broadcast over the airways. MSG, which is the cable channel that carries the vast majority of Sabres games in Western New York, is headquartered in Manhattan; there isn't any local "hosting" or anything like that. Seems to me that a cable provider could simply strike a deal with MSG to carry that channel. Unless, of course, there's a league rule or contract in the way, which there may be. I don't know if anyone with the Sabres has put a real effort into getting Cogenco to carry MSG, but it seems like it would be a worthwhile effort to get the channel, carrier, and league together to see if something could be done.
tom webster Posted August 22, 2009 Report Posted August 22, 2009 You shouldn't need a local station to host anything, the way you would if the games were actually broadcast over the airways. MSG, which is the cable channel that carries the vast majority of Sabres games in Western New York, is headquartered in Manhattan; there isn't any local "hosting" or anything like that. Seems to me that a cable provider could simply strike a deal with MSG to carry that channel. Unless, of course, there's a league rule or contract in the way, which there may be. I don't know if anyone with the Sabres has put a real effort into getting Cogenco to carry MSG, but it seems like it would be a worthwhile effort to get the channel, carrier, and league together to see if something could be done. I am pretty sure that there are presently rules in place that either make it impossible or too costly for the Sabres to appear on television in Canada. I am pretty sure, as well, that there are rules as to how much ads that appear on independant stations like Channel 29 are geared toward Canadian business. It is not my area of expertise but I know that part of the Sabres' negotiation to relent to allowing a team in Southern Ontario will involve some attempt to relax Canadian government restrictions on television access.
Eleven Posted August 22, 2009 Report Posted August 22, 2009 I am pretty sure that there are presently rules in place that either make it impossible or too costly for the Sabres to appear on television in Canada. I am pretty sure, as well, that there are rules as to how much ads that appear on independant stations like Channel 29 are geared toward Canadian business. It is not my area of expertise but I know that part of the Sabres' negotiation to relent to allowing a team in Southern Ontario will involve some attempt to relax Canadian government restrictions on television access. I'm not sure I understand your second sentence. EDIT: To the extent that you mean some Canadian rules would regulate Ch 29, they won't. US-based stations routinely violate Canadian broadcast rules (the most notable example is coverage of criminal trials where Canada imposes a gag order), and Canadian broadcast stations routinely violate US rules (nudity and profanity, on broadcast stations at night). The fact that a signal can be received across the border doesn't mean the broadcaster is subject to multiple sets of laws. In fact, 20 years ago, when Ch 29 broadcast Sabres games, it was no problem for viewers in Southern Ontario to tune in with an antenna. To this day, I'm sure Southern Ontario viewers tune in Bills games airing on CBS, NBC or Fox (that's Ch 29, by the way--the station is not independent), but have a hell of a time watching the ESPN Monday night game (unless it's on TSN or broadcast--in the case of a Monday Bills game--by Ch 7). The problem today is that the Sabres' games are not broadcast over the air; they are sent via cable. That means that there are contracts and treaties, as well as government regulations, to deal with, and we can't seem to figure out what combination is preventing Southern Ontario viewers from watching the Sabs on TV.
Mbossy Posted August 25, 2009 Report Posted August 25, 2009 NHL submits bid to buy the Coyotes. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=487025
wjag Posted August 25, 2009 Report Posted August 25, 2009 NHL submits bid to buy the Coyotes. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=487025 I'll see their bid and add one dollar.. Always wanted to own a professional franchise... I'll call them them the Arizona Snowbirds...
Mbossy Posted August 26, 2009 Report Posted August 26, 2009 I'll see their bid and add one dollar.. Always wanted to own a professional franchise... I'll call them them the Arizona Snowbirds... Me too. I could easily handle losing 30 million fictitious dollars a year.
shrader Posted August 26, 2009 Report Posted August 26, 2009 This whole thing just got really screwy. My immediate reaction to Ballsillie's latest deadline was that he set it up as a way to back out. There is no way they can possibly move that quickly. Then the NHL puts in their own bid. Kind of strange until hearing that Reinsdorf has now pulled his offer. So really, what we have now is basically everyone backing away from the team, leaving the NHL as the only option.
Eleven Posted August 26, 2009 Report Posted August 26, 2009 This whole thing just got really screwy. My immediate reaction to Ballsillie's latest deadline was that he set it up as a way to back out. There is no way they can possibly move that quickly. Then the NHL puts in their own bid. Kind of strange until hearing that Reinsdorf has now pulled his offer. So really, what we have now is basically everyone backing away from the team, leaving the NHL as the only option. Screwy is the word. In the press and among bloggers, from what I've read (please don't ask for a link; this was at 6am), the league is criticized for trying to run a team that's in trouble. Seems to me that the league did just that a few years ago, with a team that we really care about. It worked out ok. Not great, not horribly, but ok. Post-insolvency, the team did pretty well, and even given the scalpers who prevent me from getting the season tix I want, well, they're selling just about all they can make.
shrader Posted August 27, 2009 Report Posted August 27, 2009 Screwy is the word. In the press and among bloggers, from what I've read (please don't ask for a link; this was at 6am), the league is criticized for trying to run a team that's in trouble. Seems to me that the league did just that a few years ago, with a team that we really care about. It worked out ok. Not great, not horribly, but ok. Post-insolvency, the team did pretty well, and even given the scalpers who prevent me from getting the season tix I want, well, they're selling just about all they can make. I wonder how many examples of league run teams are there in pro sports. The only other one I know of was the whole Expos ordeal. That's another great example of how relocation might not be the best option either. But then again, the circumstances are very different thanks to the markets involved. Without reading all these blogs and articles out there, I'm pretty much convinced that the league is doing this to hold onto the team until Reinsdorf can get his financial stuff in order.
nfreeman Posted August 28, 2009 Report Posted August 28, 2009 Here's a pretty good summary of the current state of play: http://www.google.co.uk/gwt/n?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanhouse.com%2Fnews%2Fnhl%2Fcoyotes-arizona-future-hinges-on-lease%2F467372&hl=en-GB&mrestrict=xhtml one critical fact that I hadn't known before reading this is that balsillie's plan pays moyes a cool $104MM while the ice edge and NHL plans give him zero. No wonder he's willing to help balsillie.
tom webster Posted August 28, 2009 Report Posted August 28, 2009 Here's a pretty good summary of the current state of play: http://www.google.co.uk/gwt/n?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanhouse.com%2Fnews%2Fnhl%2Fcoyotes-arizona-future-hinges-on-lease%2F467372&hl=en-GB&mrestrict=xhtml one critical fact that I hadn't known before reading this is that balsillie's plan pays moyes a cool $104MM while the ice edge and NHL plans give him zero. No wonder he's willing to help balsillie. Interesting that Balsillie's plan pays Moyes almost the same money that TG's mystery buyer offered him for help relocating the team.
SwampD Posted August 28, 2009 Report Posted August 28, 2009 Interesting that Balsillie's plan pays Moyes almost the same money that TG's mystery buyer offered him for help relocating the team. Nice catch. I don't think I had any, buy If I did have any doubts before that Ballsilly was the mystery buyer, I don't now.
DR HOLLIDAY Posted August 28, 2009 Report Posted August 28, 2009 Bettman and the NHL enter a low bid, very classy. This thing is turning into a disgrace for the NHL.
DR HOLLIDAY Posted August 28, 2009 Report Posted August 28, 2009 Seems to me that the league did just that a few years ago, with a team that we really care about. It worked out ok. Not great, not horribly, but ok. Post-insolvency, the team did pretty well, and even given the scalpers who prevent me from getting the season tix I want, well, they're selling just about all they can make. Big difference, one city loves their hockey team, the other one could care less about.
end the curse Posted August 28, 2009 Report Posted August 28, 2009 The NHL's official bid for the Coyotes legally nullifies their previous board of governors vote to ban Balsillie's offer. It's a conflict of interest, and further opens the door for indictments under federal RICO charges.
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