Phoenix gone? (Judge rules Balsillie back in play)

[Mbossy]

Was Doug Moss the president of the Sabres when the NHL took us over or was he already gone at that point? He would have quite the resume if that was the case.

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories...ewscolumn1.html

 

For those with short memories, Moss was the Buffalo Sabres' president and CEO from 1994 to 1996, overseeing team operations as they built HSBC Arena, leaving behind Memorial Auditorium.

 

Now, in a strikingly similar situation, Moss, in December, was named president and CEO of the Phoenix Coyotes.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabresnh...ory/657119.html

[Knightrider]

Coyotes haven't paid since August, NHL just gave them a huge loan and things are going back and forth if the NHL has control of the club.

 

Glendale city manager Ed Beasley told the Republic ... the league started running the team around the time a rent payment was made in late February.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=277041

Maybe Jack Kemp will buy 'em?

 

:wallbash: :wallbash: :ph34r:

[spndnchz]

Coyotes haven't paid since August, NHL just gave them a huge loan and things are going back and forth if the NHL has control of the club.

 

Glendale city manager Ed Beasley told the Republic ... the league started running the team around the time a rent payment was made in late February.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=277041

 

Maybe Jack Kemp will buy 'em?

:wallbash: :wallbash: :ph34r:

O.M.G. That's just freaky. Please note I posted that two days before his passing. Please. I feel like sh!t now. FWIW, there were rumors of Kemp getting into buying a franchise.

[Knightrider]

O.M.G. That's just freaky. Please note I posted that two days before his passing. Please. I feel like sh!t now. FWIW, there were rumors of Kemp getting into buying a franchise.

 

I know. Just messing with you. I read this minutes after finding out about Kemp...

[spndnchz]

NEW YORK - National Hockey League Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly issued the following statement regarding the Phoenix Coyotes:

 

"We have just become aware of today's Bankruptcy Court filing purportedly made on behalf of the Phoenix Coyotes. We are investigating the circumstances surrounding the petition, including the propriety of its filing. We have removed Jerry Moyes from all positions of authority to act for or on behalf of the Club. The League will appear and proceed before the Bankruptcy Court in the best interests of all of the Club's constituencies, including its fans in Arizona and the League's 29 other Member Clubs."

[spndnchz]

Interesting article:

http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/...-crush-the-nhl/

 

It would take an enormous indemnification payment to the Sabres to make them give up as much as 15 percent of their annual business ? an amount that Balsillie is trying to get out of paying by trying to strike down the N.H.L. territory rules in a Phoenix court. Unless the Sabres ? who were themselves being operated by the league and at risk of folding before Tom Golisano bought them in 2003 ? get that kind of big money, they will never approve a Coyotes move to Hamilton that could easily drive them out of business.

 

The number of hockey people who live or have lived in the Buffalo area is astounding, even those who never played for or worked for the club, like Marcel Dionne and Darryl Sittler. And due partly to the presence of the Sabres, the city has produced a rising number of N.H.L.?ers, like overall No. 1 draft pick Patrick Kane of the Blackhawks or Cup winners Todd Marchant and Kevyn Adams.

 

All that is at risk if Balsillie?s plan, as presently conceived, goes through. No hockey fan wants to see Hamilton, or southern Ontario, denied a team, and the vast majority probably would not be too unhappy to see the Coyotes leave Phoenix. But to gain a true hockey city in a way that would cause the destruction of another true hockey city ? is that what fans, Canadian fans, really want?

 

I would assume this is part of Bettman's angle. Why move a club to an area where it puts a marketable current team at risk? Also, the point of what if Ball-silly puts the team just north, just out of reach of Sabres territory? Just inside Toronto territory, but pays them off?

[jad1]

Interesting article:

http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/...-crush-the-nhl/

 

It would take an enormous indemnification payment to the Sabres to make them give up as much as 15 percent of their annual business ? an amount that Balsillie is trying to get out of paying by trying to strike down the N.H.L. territory rules in a Phoenix court. Unless the Sabres ? who were themselves being operated by the league and at risk of folding before Tom Golisano bought them in 2003 ? get that kind of big money, they will never approve a Coyotes move to Hamilton that could easily drive them out of business.

 

The number of hockey people who live or have lived in the Buffalo area is astounding, even those who never played for or worked for the club, like Marcel Dionne and Darryl Sittler. And due partly to the presence of the Sabres, the city has produced a rising number of N.H.L.?ers, like overall No. 1 draft pick Patrick Kane of the Blackhawks or Cup winners Todd Marchant and Kevyn Adams.

 

All that is at risk if Balsillie?s plan, as presently conceived, goes through. No hockey fan wants to see Hamilton, or southern Ontario, denied a team, and the vast majority probably would not be too unhappy to see the Coyotes leave Phoenix. But to gain a true hockey city in a way that would cause the destruction of another true hockey city ? is that what fans, Canadian fans, really want?

 

I would assume this is part of Bettman's angle. Why move a club to an area where it puts a marketable current team at risk? Also, the point of what if Ball-silly puts the team just north, just out of reach of Sabres territory? Just inside Toronto territory, but pays them off?

 

I really doubt that Hamilton would hurt Buffalo all that much. Consider the following pricing structure:

 

Toronto: $400 per game

Hamilton $350 per game

Buffalo: $80 per game

 

Hamiltion is not going to go after the middle class fan base in Southern Ontario that attends Sabres games. Rather it will go after the corporate dollars that the Leafs so successfully mine. After building a new arena and paying off the Leafs, there's no way Balsillie will be able to competively price his product to compete with Buffalo.

 

But there's no way in hell that Toronto is going to share its market. This isn't a small market fight over five or six thousand fans. It's a large market fight over corporate sponsors, sales, and television revenues.

[shrader]

But there's no way in hell that Toronto is going to share its market. This isn't a small market fight over five or six thousand fans. It's a large market fight over corporate sponsors, sales, and television revenues.

 

That about sums it up. The fans aren't an issue in this at all.

[spndnchz]

I really doubt that Hamilton would hurt Buffalo all that much. Consider the following pricing structure:

 

Toronto: $400 per game

Hamilton $350 per game

Buffalo: $80 per game

 

Hamiltion is not going to go after the middle class fan base in Southern Ontario that attends Sabres games. Rather it will go after the corporate dollars that the Leafs so successfully mine. After building a new arena and paying off the Leafs, there's no way Balsillie will be able to competively price his product to compete with Buffalo.

 

But there's no way in hell that Toronto is going to share its market. This isn't a small market fight over five or six thousand fans. It's a large market fight over corporate sponsors, sales, and television revenues.

Ticket prices don't mean much. Ontario fans come down because the tickets are there, cheaper too, yes, but they are there.

 

And the Sabres with revenues of 76 million, losing 15-20% of it's revenue from Canada that's 11.4 million. Each one of those 6,000 fans is worth two grand to the organ-eye-zation.

[shrader]

How much trouble does the border crossing pose for the canadian fans? I have no idea what kind of hassle they have to deal with there.

[nobody]

You would think it would be cheaper to pay off the Sabres then the Leafs. Unless the thinking is the Leafs would take a one time payment while the Sabres would expect to be subsidized each year.

[deluca67]

Starting off a business relationship in court is about as asinine as it gets.

 

Let's say Balsillie gets his wish and he can buy the team and move the team to Hamilton. What stops the NHL from saying fine, have your team in Hamilton, it's staying in the Pacific division. I doubt courts would have the power to realign sports leagues.

 

All that aside, I like the idea of a team in Hamilton. Another geographical rival would be great. A division of Buffalo, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal could only help the Sabres. They would gain instant sellouts by replacing Boston with Hamilton and strengthen a already strong hockey region. The flip side is that a team in Hamilton does nothing to help the NHL in the US.

[jad1]

Ticket prices don't mean much. Ontario fans come down because the tickets are there, cheaper too, yes, but they are there.

 

And the Sabres with revenues of 76 million, losing 15-20% of it's revenue from Canada that's 11.4 million. Each one of those 6,000 fans is worth two grand to the organ-eye-zation.

 

So you're assuming that middle-class Southern Ontario families can afford to spend 4x more to attend Hamiton games than they're currently spending to attend Sabres games?

 

That's what will have to happen for the Sabres to lose 15-20% of their revenue.

 

Balsillie has no interest in the Sabres' customers, he's interested in the Leafs' customers. Buffalo will be fine if Hamilton gets a team.

[stenbaro]

Starting off a business relationship in court is about as asinine as it gets.

 

Let's say Balsillie gets his wish and he can buy the team and move the team to Hamilton. What stops the NHL from saying fine, have your team in Hamilton, it's staying in the Pacific division. I doubt courts would have the power to realign sports leagues.

 

All that aside, I like the idea of a team in Hamilton. Another geographical rival would be great. A division of Buffalo, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal could only help the Sabres. They would gain instant sellouts by replacing Boston with Hamilton and strengthen a already strong hockey region. The flip side is that a team in Hamilton does nothing to help the NHL in the US.

I am for letting them have a team..If they want one so be it..If they have someone who is gonna run a team and pay the bills and wants to so be it..For us Sabre fans this is great..It forces the Sabres to put a very good team on the ice or fold..To be honest if they dont want to play to win the cup goodbye..I wont pay for mediocre anymore..If thats what they expect then I have no problem watching them leave...I dont want them to go but I am done with all the BS excuses from this franchise...It would be great to have three strong teams this close..Imagine the craziness, god could you imagine 2 playoff series in a row with the Maple Laffs and then the Hamiklton franchise???That would be awesome..

[deluca67]

I am for letting them have a team..If they want one so be it..If they have someone who is gonna run a team and pay the bills and wants to so be it..For us Sabre fans this is great..It forces the Sabres to put a very good team on the ice or fold..To be honest if they dont want to play to win the cup goodbye..I wont pay for mediocre anymore..If thats what they expect then I have no problem watching them leave...I dont want them to go but I am done with all the BS excuses from this franchise...It would be great to have three strong teams this close..Imagine the craziness, god could you imagine 2 playoff series in a row with the Maple Laffs and then the Hamiklton franchise???That would be awesome..

You would think the Sabres would embrace a team in Hamilton. It would give them what they cherish most, more excuses. They could blame their incompetence on the additional team in the market.

[spndnchz]

How much trouble does the border crossing pose for the canadian fans? I have no idea what kind of hassle they have to deal with there.

Besides the long lines at the border on game night (similar to Bills games) and not being so trashed that you get busted, just a passport.

[spndnchz]

So you're assuming that middle-class Southern Ontario families can afford to spend 4x more to attend Hamiton games than they're currently spending to attend Sabres games?

 

That's what will have to happen for the Sabres to lose 15-20% of their revenue.

 

Balsillie has no interest in the Sabres' customers, he's interested in the Leafs' customers. Buffalo will be fine if Hamilton gets a team.

I'm saying that Ball-silly is smart enough to price cheaper than Toronto. He already has two big sponsors, one of which is Labatts. He's got 120,000 people on his site saying they'd buy tickets.

 

I'm sure Canadian fans will be more than happy to stay in their own country, not have to go through border checks and not have to deal with us "gun wielding" Americans.

 

Of course he wants Laff fans. That's a huge city. But don't put your head in the sand and think it won't affect B-lo.

[shrader]

And don't forget Inkman. They don't want to deal with him either.

[jad1]

I'm saying that Ball-silly is smart enough to price cheaper than Toronto. He already has two big sponsors, one of which is Labatts. He's got 120,000 people on his site saying they'd buy tickets.

 

I'm sure Canadian fans will be more than happy to stay in their own country, not have to go through border checks and not have to deal with us "gun wielding" Americans.

 

Of course he wants Laff fans. That's a huge city. But don't put your head in the sand and think it won't affect B-lo.

 

Again, with Balsillie lining up corporate sponsorship and having a waiting list, plus paying a record price for an NHL franchise, and having to build a new arena, there is no way that Hamilton will be competively priced against the Sabres.

 

So, I'm not putting my head in the sand, I'm looking at the economics of the situation. The price points will be so vastly different between Hamilton and Buffalo that Sabres will be able to keep its customer base without much difficulty.

[spndnchz]

FWIW, Bettman said he be better with Coyote's moving to Winnipeg.

 

The three other major North American pro sports leagues all filed court statements Monday asking the bankruptcy court to respect the NHL's rules on ownership transfer and relocation.

 

The NBA, NFL and Major League Baseball all expressed concern that the NHL's case with Coyotes majority owner Jerry Moyes could set a dangerous "precedent".

[shrader]

FWIW, Bettman said he be better with Coyote's moving to Winnipeg.

 

In other words, he doesn't want any team moving to Canada since Winnipeg's new arena isn't up to NHL capacity.

[nobody]

FWIW, Bettman said he be better with Coyote's moving to Winnipeg.

 

The three other major North American pro sports leagues all filed court statements Monday asking the bankruptcy court to respect the NHL's rules on ownership transfer and relocation.

 

The NBA, NFL and Major League Baseball all expressed concern that the NHL's case with Coyotes majority owner Jerry Moyes could set a dangerous "precedent".

 

 

This is actually a pretty good thing for the NHL. At least the other major sports classify the NHL as a major league!

[stenbaro]

You would think the Sabres would embrace a team in Hamilton. It would give them what they cherish most, more excuses. They could blame their incompetence on the additional team in the market.

As sickining as that sounds its a shame our perception of this team makes us really not laugh at that comment becasue its not to far from reality...

[spndnchz]

Thx spudzy

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=279460

It's gone political. I suppose them coming out saying they didn't care would be unpc.

[shrader]

Thx spudzy

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=279460

It's gone political. I suppose them coming out saying they didn't care would be unpc.

 

Schumer's been all over Sabres related issues in the past, just like he has with the recent Bills to Toronto talk. He's not just talking out of his ass here, he wants to protect the Sabres in any way possible. It's a little early to tell with Gillibrand, but I don't doubt her intentions here either. Really, if Schumer tells her to do something, she will.