MacArthur

[That Aud Smell]

First, a disclaimer: I don't get to watch each and every game all the way through, far from it. But I do tune in regularly and watch most of each game.

 

I seem to recall people who were familiar with MacArthur's work in the Roc saying things in the offseason to the effect that if we were counting on this guy to be a consistent contributor, let alone a top-6 forward, we were bound to be disappointed.

 

But then the kid went for something like 6/3 through the first dozen or so games, and was reasonably responsible in his own end, IIRC.

 

Now I see this in today's paper:

 

Clarke MacArthur will take Gerbe?s spot on the line with Stafford and center Derek Roy. MacArthur was a healthy scratch Saturday against the Devils, but he?ll be in a prime spot for tonight?s rematch in HSBC Arena.

 

?It?s a big opportunity, so he should be pretty excited about dropping right in there,? Ruff said of the left winger, who has gone 16 games without a goal. ?Some parts of his game have been good, and some parts I think it has tailed off. He has to know that it?s 100 percent shift in and shift out.?

 

I'm starting to sense that he's a familiar Sabres prototype: plenty of talent, not much jam, tends to drift for long stretches of games.

 

But I neither watch as much of the team as many of you, nor do I have any context on him as an Amerk. What say y'all?

[inkman]

But I neither watch as much of the team as many of you, nor do I have any context on him as an Amerk. What say y'all?

My take on Clarke is that he has just barely enough talent to be a top 6 forward but he would need to play like his hair is on fire every shift to really make any impact what so ever. He's not nearly as talented as Stafford but has a knack for finishing around the net. If he gives anything less than 100%, he will be ineffective no matter where they play him.

[Buffalo Wings]

Is it simply a case of getting consistent ice time? Seems like we're hearing about him being a healthy scratch or up & down to Portland (Rochester last year). Not frequently, but enough.

 

I see this in baseball a lot....a young, borderline good player gets playing time here & there and shows some flashes of being really good, but doesn't always get the at-bats to get his timing down. Then he's on a constant shuttle between the big club and AAA, so he's never seeing major league pitching all the time....at least, not enough to get a good sample of how good he is or where he'd fit on the team.

 

I'm a big fan of giving a prospect enough playing time to see what he can do before making a judgment.

[tom webster]

Is it simply a case of getting consistent ice time? Seems like we're hearing about him being a healthy scratch or up & down to Portland (Rochester last year). Not frequently, but enough.

 

I see this in baseball a lot....a young, borderline good player gets playing time here & there and shows some flashes of being really good, but doesn't always get the at-bats to get his timing down. Then he's on a constant shuttle between the big club and AAA, so he's never seeing major league pitching all the time....at least, not enough to get a good sample of how good he is or where he'd fit on the team.

 

I'm a big fan of giving a prospect enough playing time to see what he can do before making a judgment.

 

I have heard this argument before and my response is that I defer to Lindy based on track record. Aside from nearly making a huge mistake by not recognizing Pominville's abilities, I don't think there is another example of them letting go of a prospect where he proved them wrong. Dennis Wideman is on Darcy.

 

Like Ink said, MacArthur is borderline top 6 and like Aud said, or implied, not enough jam for a third or fourth line player. There really is no room on the roster for him long term but he may be an ideal candidate for a deadline trade for a rental player.

[Wraith]

I really don't think it's an "effort" thing. Despite being pretty small, MacArthur has played far more physical this year than most of us thought possible. That has continued even as his offense has tailed off.

[jimiVbaby]

I have heard this argument before and my response is that I defer to Lindy based on track record. Aside from nearly making a huge mistake by not recognizing Pominville's abilities, I don't think there is another example of them letting go of a prospect where he proved them wrong. Dennis Wideman is on Darcy.

Like Ink said, MacArthur is borderline top 6 and like Aud said, or implied, not enough jam for a third or fourth line player. There really is no room on the roster for him long term but he may be an ideal candidate for a deadline trade for a rental player.

I'm sorry, but you keep on bringing up Dennis Wideman like he's Chris Pronger. He's not. Prospects end up going to other teams and making an impact. It happens.

[inkman]

Prospects end up going to other teams and making an impact.

He's not even doing that. Why hasn't he brought up Shane Hnidy?

[deluca67]

I've said this before. I forget that MacArthur is on the team. In conversations about the Sabres his name is brought up and I have to stop and think. He's OK, he doesn't do anything really well but he is not that out of place as say a Peters is. I think the Sabres need to define a role for him and help him gain an identity.

[That Aud Smell]

thanks, all.

 

He's OK, he doesn't do anything really well but he is not that out of place as say a Peters is. I think the Sabres need to define a role for him and help him gain an identity.

macarthur does seem to have what, in other sports, might be called a 'tweener syndrome. he's like, what? maybe an under-sized swingman who can do a lot of things pretty well, but who's not fast enough to beat people consistently off the dribble, but not physical enough to bang under the boards either.

 

or something like that.

[carpandean]

Anyone familiar with statistical analysis knows that you need to control for other factors to draw any strong conclusions. One factor not controlled for this year is position. With Hecht, Gaustad and, of course, Timmy out of the lineup, he started the season as the second-line center between Paille and Pominville. He was seeing 16-19 minutes of ice time during the time that he got most of his points.

 

Another thing to note is that he scored half of his goals on the PP. Now, he is still getting PP ice time, but again his position is different. Currently, he's playing with Max and Gaustad. Goose is in front of the net and Mac is on the half-wall. When he was scoring goals, he was playing with Max and Kotalik. Mac was the guy standing in front of the net and he seemed to have a knack for scoring from there.

 

I agree that he isn't built to be a fourth-liner and probably doesn't have the offensive skill to be on a scoring line and definitely not the top line. However, if it weren't for the fact that he's even worse on the faceoff than Hecht, I'd say that he should be played at center again before writing him off. It seemed to work for him. Heck, at this point with Gerbe out, I might be tempted to try:

 

Vanek-Roy-Stafford

Hecht-MacArthur-Pominville

 

or even

 

Vanek-Hecht-Pominville

Roy-MacArthur-Stafford

 

with Hecht or Roy taking faceoffs instead of Mac, of course. It couldn't hurt to try.

[carpandean]

thanks, all.

macarthur does seem to have what, in other sports, might be called a 'tweener syndrome. he's like, what? maybe an under-sized swingman who can do a lot of things pretty well, but who's not fast enough to beat people consistently off the dribble, but not physical enough to bang under the boards either.

or something like that.

Jack of all trades, master of none?

[tom webster]

I'm sorry, but you keep on bringing up Dennis Wideman like he's Chris Pronger. He's not. Prospects end up going to other teams and making an impact. It happens.

 

 

First, Wideman is relavant to the point.

 

Second,

 

He is averaging 25 minutes of ice time, mans the point on the third best power play unit on the second best team in the league (based on points) and just this offseason signed a $4 million per year contract extention.

 

I'd say that is a pretty significant impact. Couple that with the fact that he is a right hand shot and I'd say that he would have looked great in the blue and gold.

[tom webster]

He's not even doing that. Why hasn't he brought up Shane Hnidy?

 

 

See response to JImV....

[inkman]

See response to JImV....

Problem is, you get a major for certain dudes. Drury, Wideman, etc... Just let it go and root for the team on the ice, as unlikeable and unwatchable as they can be.

[tom webster]

Problem is, you get a major for certain dudes. Drury, Wideman, etc... Just let it go and root for the team on the ice, as unlikeable and unwatchable as they can be.

 

 

Again, I haven't brought up Drury in what? And Wideman was relevant and I brought him up to actually show how few mistakes they have made in letting draft choices go, and I think I answered the question as to what kind of impact you seem to disregard.

And finally,

the same way you root for the Americans in spite of Donner, I root for and support the Sabres. Doesn't mean I have to like the people in charge or ignore their continued errors and seeming comfort with being a 6 to 10 team.

[inkman]

Again, I haven't brought up Drury in what?

8 days 3 hours 31 minutes :nana:

[tom webster]

8 days 3 hours 31 minutes :nana:

 

OK, before the favorite Sabre thread. :worthy:

[Claude Balls]

Like Aud said, MacArthur is a prototypical Sabre. Has shown flashes, albeit not enough to warrant a top spot, but lacks physical play as well. Just like Mancari, he is a great AHLer, but will never be a star in the NHL if you ask me. Another player of this type is Zagrapan. I don't know if he will even see the NHL for more than a handful of games. A lot of these guys show promise at the lower levels, but just don't seem to have all the tools to be long time or standout NHLers. Guys like Novotny, Rasmussen, Brown have had mediocre NHL careers. Vanek is the best player the Sabres have brought through the system since I don't know who.

[inkman]

A lot of these guys show promise at the lower levels, but just don't seem to have all the tools to be long time or standout NHLers.

I guess this could be attributed to scouting and developing players. Gaustad, Pominville and Campbell are the only players that come to mind, as far as this management is concerned, that were developed into the players they are today. Looking back at some of the Sabres early picks: Wayne Primeau, Erik Rasmussen, Mika Noronen, Barrett Heisten, Artem Kryukov, Jiri Novotny, Marek Zagrapan, Dennis Persson.

 

A whole lot of nothing. No wonder they went to video scouting. OSP probably asked to see how a team was supposed to be developed and when he saw the lack of actual NHL players the Sabres have drafted in the first round with normal scouting, decided to scrap the whole thing. It's unfathomable that a team can miss so badly on so many guys.

[JohnRobertEichel]

I guess this could be attributed to scouting and developing players. Gaustad, Pominville and Campbell are the only players that come to mind, as far as this management is concerned, that were developed into the players they are today. Looking back at some of the Sabres early picks: Wayne Primeau, Erik Rasmussen, Mika Noronen, Barrett Heisten, Artem Kryukov, Jiri Novotny, Marek Zagrapan, Dennis Persson.

 

A whole lot of nothing. No wonder they went to video scouting. OSP probably asked to see how a team was supposed to be developed and when he saw the lack of actual NHL players the Sabres have drafted in the first round with normal scouting, decided to scrap the whole thing. It's unfathomable that a team can miss so badly on so many guys.

 

But I wonder what the first round success rate is for all other NHL teams. You're drafting 18 year old kids, basically, whose physical bodies and mental focus for the game may change a lot over the course of a few years.

 

I also think it's unfair to place Zagrapan and Persson in with those other guys. It's still too early to think of them as busts.

[Claude Balls]

But I wonder what the first round success rate is for all other NHL teams. You're drafting 18 year old kids, basically, whose physical bodies and mental focus for the game may change a lot over the course of a few years.

 

I also think it's unfair to place Zagrapan and Persson in with those other guys. It's still too early to think of them as busts.

Have you seen him play in the AHL yet? I am just wondering, because living in Rochester I had the chance to watch him the last few years and he was nowhere near where he should be. I know he's a Euro, but this kid avoids contact like the plague. If going to get the puck means he is going to take a hit, he will usually try to avoid the hit rather than make a play. I have not seen him this year, but I also haven't heard anything on him either. He would never make it in the NHL with the style I have seen. He is a great skater I must admit.

[tom webster]

I guess this could be attributed to scouting and developing players. Gaustad, Pominville and Campbell are the only players that come to mind, as far as this management is concerned, that were developed into the players they are today. Looking back at some of the Sabres early picks: Wayne Primeau, Erik Rasmussen, Mika Noronen, Barrett Heisten, Artem Kryukov, Jiri Novotny, Marek Zagrapan, Dennis Persson.

 

A whole lot of nothing. No wonder they went to video scouting. OSP probably asked to see how a team was supposed to be developed and when he saw the lack of actual NHL players the Sabres have drafted in the first round with normal scouting, decided to scrap the whole thing. It's unfathomable that a team can miss so badly on so many guys.

 

 

Buffalo is actually pretty proficient at drafting.

 

 

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/346317

[inkman]

Buffalo is actually pretty proficient at drafting.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/346317

NHL players, just not good ones in the first round.

[tom webster]

NHL players, just not good ones in the first round.

 

 

This may give you a better perspective;

 

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/prospects...aft_success.htm

[Claude Balls]

NHL players, just not good ones in the first round.

Vanek is the only one. Rasmussen was terrible for a 7th overall pick.

 

Buffalo is actually pretty proficient at drafting.

 

Of the 35 players in the NHL right now that Buffalo has drafted, how many are top guys on their teams? They also have 16 of those players on the team now and how many of those guys are standouts? Vanek and who else. Will this team compete with the group of underachieving players right now, I don't think so. Montreal and Colorado also have 16 of their own draft picks playing right now as well and as Montreal is doing okay, Colorado is struggling. I don't care how many guys the Sabres have drafted and have made it in the league, I care about these guys playing as a team to their potential and winning. Something that hasn't happened in Buffalo for a while. This team doesn't have much chemistry, unless they are out drinking and making fools of themselves.