Spudz Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 This thread is an "epic fail". I wanted to chime in again earlier to respond but couldn't. There are some valid points in here, and while I completely disagree with PASabreFan's topic it is worth visiting this thought because when a coach is around for a long time you can get complacent about him. The thread has brought out some interesting topics... 1) Is Lindy just a good coach, or is a great coach? 2) Has he been hampered by the front office? 3) Could any other coach have been more successful? 4) If Lindy went somewhere without a curse on the city could he win the cup? People are really backing Ruff on this on and hating on PA. I'm sure he doesn't want to fire Ruff, but discussion is always good.
Hank Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 I wanted to chime in again earlier to respond but couldn't. There are some valid points in here, and while I completely disagree with PASabreFan's topic it is worth visiting this thought because when a coach is around for a long time you can get complacent about him. The thread has brought out some interesting topics... 1) Is Lindy just a good coach, or is a great coach? 2) Has he been hampered by the front office? 3) Could any other coach have been more successful? 4) If Lindy went somewhere without a curse on the city could he win the cup? People are really backing Ruff on this on and hating on PA. I'm sure he doesn't want to fire Ruff, but discussion is always good. 1 - Great coach 2 - Absolutely 3 - Absolutely not 4 - Without a doubt
Stoner Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Posted November 12, 2008 One last note--Ruff is #2 on the all-time coaching wins list for the Sabres. So I ask the anti-Ruff "crowd", is that a testament to how good a coach he is or an indication of the futility of this franchise since its inception? I'm not anti-Ruff. And I think I'm a crowd of one right now in even daring to challenge the guy. Being #2 is absolutely a testament to how good he is. But if he sticks around long enough, he'll pass Bowman and, who knows, maybe become the winningest coach in league history. That won't necessarily make him the best coach ever.
Hank Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 I think Ruff has been hampered to varying degrees by management, especially before TG. When Ruff first came to the Sabres and we had Hasek the team was all defence all the time. After the lockout we've been at/near the top of the leage in scoring. I think Ruff does a great job of adapting his system based on the talent he has then trying to make players fit a certain system. I think he gets the most out of what he has and I truly don't believe anyone else could do a better job.
deluca67 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 I'm not anti-Ruff. And I think I'm a crowd of one right now in even daring to challenge the guy. Being #2 is absolutely a testament to how good he is. But if he sticks around long enough, he'll pass Bowman and, who knows, maybe become the winningest coach in league history. That won't necessarily make him the best coach ever. The question shouldn't be "is Ruff a good coach or a great coach?" The question should be "is Ruff the right coach?" PA is right to question Ruff. For being such a great coach this team certainly tunes him out way too often IMO. The season is not even 20 games old and this team is having a hard time staying focused? I could accept that in maybe in February when the grind of the 82 game season would start to affect players. Not a handful of games in. The question has to be asked with any long tenured head coach. Can he get his message across to his players and does his message work in a ever changing game. I like Ruff as Coach and the last thing I want for the Sabres is what the Bills are going through with a string of incompetent head coaches. I hope Ruff can keep the team focused enough for a playoff drive.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 Ok, I haven't been around and wanted to weigh in ... First of all, it's a very legitimate discussion for PA to start. The timing is a little curious I guess given the current record and the fact it is still early in the season, but if someone has fair questions about the head coach, they are always relevant. I take issue a little with the WAY he started it (comparing tough practices to child abuse? really? And like Lindy is the only coach ever to do this?), but the final question - Is Lindy Ruff -- something just a bit north of mediocrity, with spurts of success and missing the playoffs thrown in here and there -- here for good? - is totally legit. I would argue he is quite a bit north of mediocrity. I don't know how you rate The Bankruptcy Years ... they missed the playoffs, but it's tough to lay that entirely at Ruff's feet. Last season, I think he has to take some blame. He seems to get a bit of a free pass based on the FA losses, but the playoffs were there for the taking still. They blew too many big leads at home and he has to take some blame for that. On balance, though, I have never been a "Well, he missed the playoffs, fire his ass" guy ... sometimes it is warranted, obviously, but I personally think that Ruff has proven himself enough to earn another season to turn it around. Now, as for how long he gets to stay ... I love the guy, I can't deny that, and the question of whether he gets a pass because we all loved him as a player is also legit. But no matter how many games he has won or how great he was as a player, he does not deserve to die behind the bench like Joe Paterno or Bobby Bowden or something. Sometimes, a guy can be the wrong coach for the right team or the right coach for the wrong team ... it just happens. Doesn't make him less of a coach, sometimes it is just time to go. I have been dreading the day Lindy leaves for a while, to be honest, but it's going to come. And if they miss the playoffs this season, maybe that should be time. Maybe it's before that. We'll see. All that said, I have not seen anything unexpectedly bad this season to think that his seat should be heating up. if you had told me 2 months ago they would be 8-3-3, i would have taken it in a second. Yeah they have lost two in a row ... before that they won 2 in a row and dominated. let's see where it goes ... On a personal level, like I said, I am dreading the day he leaves ... I believe in one way or another that Ruff would step aside if it wasn't working. Maybe it would be a "forced out" kind of thing, but he's too proud to stomp his feet and go kicking and screaming. The guy voluntarily gave up his captaincy when he was scratched as a player. it's not exactly the same thing, but I find it hard to believe that he would hang Darcy out to dry as the bad guy. Even if it was coming from LQ and TG, they showed some loyalty keeping Lindy after the lockout ... I don't think he will make it more painful than it needs to be. It will be a sad day, for me, even if I know it is time and he needs to go. Lindy is a link to the Sabres of my youth. Maybe he can't make today's players feel this way (maybe no one can), but he takes pride in being a Buffalo Sabre -- and a Buffalonian, for that matter. It's NOT just a job to him. When they asked him about the cool varsity jacket he wore at the Winter Classic, he said, "It's always a good day when you can put on the blue and gold." How can you not love that? Winning a Cup in Buffalo WOULD mean more to him than winning it somewhere else, he admits it. As far as I am concerned, the only thing better than seeing Lindy lift that Cup over his head as Sabres coach someday would have been him doing it in 1999 so he could have handed it to Mike Ramsey. I truly believe that the day that dream dies, I will become a TINY bit less of a fan ... I won't be able to help it ... Teppo notwithstandng, things tend to change when you are older than every player ... But I've been a fan of Lindy since I was 10-years old, and the 10-year old in me still believes he wants to win as badly as we do. Once he's gone, I'm just another close-to-middle-aged guy who spends too much time worrying about a bunch of kids who happen to play for the Sabres. When it's time, it's time ... but now is not the time, and I hope he beats the odds for a while longer.
carpandean Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 PA is right to question Ruff. For being such a great coach this team certainly tunes him out way too often IMO. The season is not even 20 games old and this team is having a hard time staying focused? I could accept that in maybe in February when the grind of the 82 game season would start to affect players. Not a handful of games in. See, I would argue the opposite. They are switching from a run-and-gun team offense style with fast break-outs, pinching defense and goalies hung out to dry, to an almost trap-like team defense style with strong backchecking, more conservative (balanced) defense and heavy goalie support. I have less of an issue with them slipping back to their old ways early in the season than I will if they are still slipping up in February. They used the new system, won some games and started thinking back about how much fun scoring a lot was. After a couple of sloppy games, Ruff ripped into them during practice, reminded them of the new system and showed them where they went wrong. It worked, at least temporarily, as they played two of the best defensive games of the season. Then, they started slipping into those bad habits again. Not for the whole games, but enough that they only got one point against Atlanta - should definitely have gotten two - and to give Boston enough opportunities to be beaten in regulation. Let's see if Ruff gets them back on track again. Hopefully, by February, they will be so used to winning with the new system and losing without it that they won't need reminding.
deluca67 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 See, I would argue the opposite. They are switching from a run-and-gun team offense style with fast break-outs, pinching defense and goalies hung out to dry, to an almost trap-like team defense style with strong backchecking, more conservative (balanced) defense and heavy goalie support. I have less of an issue with them slipping back to their old ways early in the season than I will if they are still slipping up in February. They used the new system, won some games and started thinking back about how much fun scoring a lot was. After a couple of sloppy games, Ruff ripped into them during practice, reminded them of the new system and showed them where they went wrong. It worked, at least temporarily, as they played two of the best defensive games of the season. Then, they started slipping into those bad habits again. Not for the whole games, but enough that they only got one point against Atlanta - should definitely have gotten two - and to give Boston enough opportunities to be beaten in regulation. Let's see if Ruff gets them back on track again. Hopefully, by February, they will be so used to winning with the new system and losing without it that they won't need reminding. Even in the season right after the lockout this team would go through stretches where they didn't seem to listen to Ruff. They had enough talent to still win most of those games with bursts of goals. It just seems that for a while now that consistent mental focus has been an issue. Not just this year.
deluca67 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 When it's time, it's time ... but now is not the time, and I hope he beats the odds for a while longer. I truly believe Ruff and Regier will remain as long as they like.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 I truly believe Ruff and Regier will remain as long as they like. Well I tend to agree but like I said, I don't see Ruff hanging around just to keep a job. if the results are not there he will step aside, I think.
Spudz Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 When they asked him about the cool varsity jacket he wore at the Winter Classic, he said, "It's always a good day when you can put on the blue and gold." How can you not love that? I heart Lindy :wub: It is increasingly rare you see this in professional sports. We need more people like this for the Bills/Sabres who run the show.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 I heart Lindy :wub: It is increasingly rare you see this in professional sports. We need more people like this for the Bills/Sabres who run the show. Well I agree I love that he feels that way, but whether it's really what is needed is open to debate, I guess ... if the results are not there, changes need to be made. Again, I think most fans/media want changes too fast, but that doesn't mean there is not a time when change would be good. I don't think it is that time yet.
R_Dudley Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 I wanted to chime in again earlier to respond but couldn't. There are some valid points in here, and while I completely disagree with PASabreFan's topic it is worth visiting this thought because when a coach is around for a long time you can get complacent about him. The thread has brought out some interesting topics... 1) Is Lindy just a good coach, or is a great coach? 2) Has he been hampered by the front office? 3) Could any other coach have been more successful? 4) If Lindy went somewhere without a curse on the city could he win the cup? People are really backing Ruff on this on and hating on PA. I'm sure he doesn't want to fire Ruff, but discussion is always good. In my responses I didn't intend to come across anti-PA and hope I didn't, because I do agree it is a valid point and good to question status quo especially when status quo hasn't taken us to the promised land and a drink from that cup.. 1.) Great 2.) yes 3.) Very doubtful 4.) Yes I'm not anti-Ruff. And I think I'm a crowd of one right now in even daring to challenge the guy. Being #2 is absolutely a testament to how good he is. But if he sticks around long enough, he'll pass Bowman and, who knows, maybe become the winningest coach in league history. That won't necessarily make him the best coach ever. I agree with that statement but I also believe that he has been the best coach for this team over time given all the variables. Well I tend to agree but like I said, I don't see Ruff hanging around just to keep a job. if the results are not there he will step aside, I think. I agree with that, FWIW I sense that from him as well. He seems to have a personality that if he did not enjoy his work he would walk away rather then make someone force him out. IMHO when he can sit down with a player like Vanek end of last season and tell him he wants him to be one of the best 2-way players in league and that player responds like Vanek has so far, that's got to keep that fire burning.. The day they stop responding like that to him is the day he walks on his own....
nobody Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 If Ruff was coaching the Red Wings instead of the Sabres; I think he wins at least 3 Cups.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 If Ruff was coaching the Red Wings instead of the Sabres; I think he wins at least 3 Cups. Again, I LOVE the guy and think he is doing a good job ... but this is completely irrelevant. He IS coaiching the Sabres. The question was about the job he is doing and is he doing a good enough job to basically call his shot when it comes to leaving. I think i could have won a Cup coaching the 76-77 Canadiens, but that doesn't mean I should coach in the NHL. Saying he would have 3 Cups coaching another team is like saying Vanek would score 80 goals playing with Sidney Crosby ... who cares, what good does that do the Sabres?
SarasotaSabre Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 I disagree with the anti-Ruff sentiments 100%. Granted, right now is a little tough to be a Bflo. sports fan....up/downs w/ the Sabres, the Bills' implosion after a 5-1 start as impostors, the small-town insecurities we all have (...even displaced Buffalonians..:)) ), but IMHO Lindy is closest thing we have to stability and security. He knows his guys, adapts to change well, and is a players' coach - with credibility.
Stoner Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Posted November 12, 2008 Miller to make sixth straight start tonight per WGR. Food for thought, that's all.
Stoner Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Posted November 12, 2008 See, I would argue the opposite. They are switching from a run-and-gun team offense style with fast break-outs, pinching defense and goalies hung out to dry, to an almost trap-like team defense style with strong backchecking, more conservative (balanced) defense and heavy goalie support. For what it's worth, the Sabres are allowing a shot and a half more per game this year. But they've cut their goals against dramatically. Maybe Ryan's just stopping more pucks this year. While looking at those stats, I noticed the Sabres are dead last in faceoffs!
inkman Posted November 12, 2008 Report Posted November 12, 2008 While looking at those stats, I noticed the Sabres are dead last in faceoffs! That will happen when MacArthur, Kotalik, and Hecht are taking face-offs for you on a regular basis.
SarasotaSabre Posted November 13, 2008 Report Posted November 13, 2008 listen to Roby singing Ruff's praises for coaching on how to stop "putting on a show" and instead just driving to the net.....Roby knows hockey. Care to change your opinion now on all the anti-Ruff garbage?
Stoner Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Posted November 13, 2008 listen to Roby singing Ruff's praises for coaching on how to stop "putting on a show" and instead just driving to the net.....Roby knows hockey. Care to change your opinion now on all the anti-Ruff garbage? Yep, you and Roby finally convinced me! That, plus this fantastic win over St. Louis, has me hoping Lindy can coach into his 90s, Cup or no Cup! Wheel the son of a bitch behind that bench! Give him binoculars, a pair of Depends and a drool cup! Load up the Lasix boys!
wjag Posted November 13, 2008 Report Posted November 13, 2008 Yep, you and Roby finally convinced me! That, plus this fantastic win over St. Louis, has me hoping Lindy can coach into his 90s, Cup or no Cup! Wheel the son of a bitch behind that bench! Give him binoculars, a pair of Depends and a drool cup! Load up the Lasix boys! Why does one need a pair of Depends?
Stoner Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Posted November 13, 2008 Why does one need a pair of Depends? You think one is going to last a whole period?!
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