Mancari named AHL Player of the Week

[wildcat48]

Mancari named AHL Player of the Week

Springfield, Mass. ? The American Hockey League announced today that Portland Pirates right wing Mark Mancari has been named the Reebok/AHL Player of the Week for the period ending Nov. 9, 2008. Mancari tallied four goals and four assists for eight points in three games as the Pirates continued their winning ways atop the AHL standings.

 

Link>>>>

[Claude Balls]

One thing you will NEVER see.......Mancari named NHL player of the week. The guy folds like toilet paper when he gets called up. Yes, he is the only player other than Zagrapan I have issues with. Does Zags still avoid the puck like the plague if there is going to be contact involved? The kid can skate like the wind.

[tom webster]

One thing you will NEVER see.......Mancari named NHL player of the week. The guy folds like toilet paper when he gets called up. Yes, he is the only player other than Zagrapan I have issues with. Does Zags still avoid the puck like the plague if there is going to be contact involved? The kid can skate like the wind.

 

The guy played 3 games in the 06/07 season. Hardly a huge data base to base your evaluation on.

[LabattBlue]

The guy played 3 games in the 06/07 season. Hardly a huge data base to base your evaluation on.

I agree. I know Mancari's two biggest drawbacks are his lack of physiocal play and his skating, but I'd like to see him get a call up before Gerbe or Kennedy. He deserves it.

[Claude Balls]

The guy played 3 games in the 06/07 season. Hardly a huge data base to base your evaluation on.

I've seen him plenty in Rochester to know he doesn't impress me much. He scores points, which is much easier in the minors. Remember Jody Gage? Certain guys are just made for the AHL and he's one of them IMO. Jason Krog is another one. He had his chance in the bigs, but just didn't cut it. He is a stud in the AHL. A lot of the problem is mental with these guys. Maybe someday he'll get it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[SabresFan526]

I agree. I know Mancari's two biggest drawbacks are his lack of physical play and his skating, but I'd like to see him get a call up before Gerbe or Kennedy. He deserves it.

Wait a minute, a big guy, with a huge shot, who plays right wing and the point on the powerplay, who doesn't like to use his body? I've never heard that description of any Buffalo Sabres player ever before. Specifically, not of a player from the Czech Republic. :rolleyes:

 

In all seriousness, I'd like to keep Kotalik beyond this year because I like what he brings with his shot and the shootout, but if he is not re-signed, I think we've found his permanent replacement. All of the complaints that I hear about Mancari are the exact same complaints that I've been hearing about Kotalik for the last 7 years, and he's been a Sabre all this time. I think Mancari will be wearing a Sabres uniform next year when they choose not to re-sign Kotalik. Unfortunately, Mancari will not be with the Sabres this year as he'd have to clear re-entry waivers to get called up, but I think Max, Connolly, and Kotalik will be replaced by Gerbe, Kennedy, and Mancari respectively next year. Just my hunch.

[Buffalo Fan]

Wait a minute, a big guy, with a huge shot, who plays right wing and the point on the powerplay, who doesn't like to use his body? I've never heard that description of any Buffalo Sabres player ever before. Specifically, not of a player from the Czech Republic. :rolleyes:

 

In all seriousness, I'd like to keep Kotalik beyond this year because I like what he brings with his shot and the shootout, but if he is not re-signed, I think we've found his permanent replacement. All of the complaints that I hear about Mancari are the exact same complaints that I've been hearing about Kotalik for the last 7 years, and he's been a Sabre all this time. I think Mancari will be wearing a Sabres uniform next year when they choose not to re-sign Kotalik. Unfortunately, Mancari will not be with the Sabres this year as he'd have to clear re-entry waivers to get called up, but I think Max, Connolly, and Kotalik will be replaced by Gerbe, Kennedy, and Mancari respectively next year. Just my hunch.

 

 

Andreychuk had this nock against him as well...

[shrader]

Wait a minute, a big guy, with a huge shot, who plays right wing and the point on the powerplay, who doesn't like to use his body? I've never heard that description of any Buffalo Sabres player ever before. Specifically, not of a player from the Czech Republic. :rolleyes:

 

In all seriousness, I'd like to keep Kotalik beyond this year because I like what he brings with his shot and the shootout, but if he is not re-signed, I think we've found his permanent replacement. All of the complaints that I hear about Mancari are the exact same complaints that I've been hearing about Kotalik for the last 7 years, and he's been a Sabre all this time. I think Mancari will be wearing a Sabres uniform next year when they choose not to re-sign Kotalik. Unfortunately, Mancari will not be with the Sabres this year as he'd have to clear re-entry waivers to get called up, but I think Max, Connolly, and Kotalik will be replaced by Gerbe, Kennedy, and Mancari respectively next year. Just my hunch.

 

Team's aren't very quick to clear up a roster spot to claim a re-entry waivers guy, especially one who has no track record at the NHL level. It's not re-entry waivers, but just look at the Ellis story that wildcat posted yesterday or today. The Kings actually wanted him but couldn't (or didn't want to) free up a roster spot for him.

[inkman]

Wait a minute, a big guy, with a huge shot, who plays right wing and the point on the powerplay, who doesn't like to use his body? I've never heard that description of any Buffalo Sabres player ever before. Specifically, not of a player from the Czech Republic. :rolleyes:

FWIW, Big Al is Pavel Bure compared to Mancari.

[Claude Balls]

FWIW, Big Al is Pavel Bure compared to Mancari.

Bingo! :thumbsup:

[nfreeman]

Wait a minute, a big guy, with a huge shot, who plays right wing and the point on the powerplay, who doesn't like to use his body? I've never heard that description of any Buffalo Sabres player ever before. Specifically, not of a player from the Czech Republic. :rolleyes:

 

In all seriousness, I'd like to keep Kotalik beyond this year because I like what he brings with his shot and the shootout, but if he is not re-signed, I think we've found his permanent replacement. All of the complaints that I hear about Mancari are the exact same complaints that I've been hearing about Kotalik for the last 7 years, and he's been a Sabre all this time. I think Mancari will be wearing a Sabres uniform next year when they choose not to re-sign Kotalik. Unfortunately, Mancari will not be with the Sabres this year as he'd have to clear re-entry waivers to get called up, but I think Max, Connolly, and Kotalik will be replaced by Gerbe, Kennedy, and Mancari respectively next year. Just my hunch.

Seriously? A guy who's never had more than a cuppa coffee in the NHL needs to clear waivers? Are you pretty sure on this one?

[SabresFan526]

Seriously? A guy who's never had more than a cuppa coffee in the NHL needs to clear waivers? Are you pretty sure on this one?

100% sure on this one. Remember, Mancari is no longer on his entry-level contract. This is his second contract with the Sabres organization, therefore he must clear waivers. He's had more than 3 years of professional hockey. It's not how much NHL experience you have, but how much experience you have of professional hockey in addition to the age in which you signed your first professional contract as well as whether or not you are on your entry-level deal which determines whether you are subject to waivers. This season is Mancari's 4th season of professional hockey, his second contract with the organization, and therefore he has to clear re-entry waivers to come up. Not only that, he had to clear waivers at the start of the season when the Sabres assigned him to Portland. Basically, it's similar to why Pominville cleared waivers when he was sent down in 2005-2006 and why he cleared re-entry waivers to come back up that same season. This is a CBA issue, not how many games you've played at the NHL level that determines your waiver elgibility. In fact, MacArthur is also subject to waivers if he's sent down to Portland. MacArthur and Mancari signed with the Sabres as professionals in the same year.

[nfreeman]

100% sure on this one. Remember, Mancari is no longer on his entry-level contract. This is his second contract with the Sabres organization, therefore he must clear waivers. He's had more than 3 years of professional hockey. It's not how much NHL experience you have, but how much experience you have of professional hockey in addition to the age in which you signed your first professional contract as well as whether or not you are on your entry-level deal which determines whether you are subject to waivers. This season is Mancari's 4th season of professional hockey, his second contract with the organization, and therefore he has to clear re-entry waivers to come up. Not only that, he had to clear waivers at the start of the season when the Sabres assigned him to Portland. Basically, it's similar to why Pominville cleared waivers when he was sent down in 2005-2006 and why he cleared re-entry waivers to come back up that same season. This is a CBA issue, not how many games you've played at the NHL level that determines your waiver elgibility. In fact, MacArthur is also subject to waivers if he's sent down to Portland. MacArthur and Mancari signed with the Sabres as professionals in the same year.

Gotcha. thanks.

 

In that case, it doesn't seem likely that they'll be able to sneak him through. I appreciate the points made below, but I think he'd be viewed differently from Ellis -- ie at least one team would see him as a high-scoring prospect, while Ellis is your basic veteran journeyman.

[wildcat48]

100% sure on this one. Remember, Mancari is no longer on his entry-level contract. This is his second contract with the Sabres organization, therefore he must clear waivers. He's had more than 3 years of professional hockey. It's not how much NHL experience you have, but how much experience you have of professional hockey in addition to the age in which you signed your first professional contract as well as whether or not you are on your entry-level deal which determines whether you are subject to waivers. This season is Mancari's 4th season of professional hockey, his second contract with the organization, and therefore he has to clear re-entry waivers to come up. Not only that, he had to clear waivers at the start of the season when the Sabres assigned him to Portland. Basically, it's similar to why Pominville cleared waivers when he was sent down in 2005-2006 and why he cleared re-entry waivers to come back up that same season. This is a CBA issue, not how many games you've played at the NHL level that determines your waiver elgibility. In fact, MacArthur is also subject to waivers if he's sent down to Portland. MacArthur and Mancari signed with the Sabres as professionals in the same year.

 

No, I'm sorry, but you are not correct on this issue. Mancari only needed to clear waivers when he was sent down at the beginning of the season, which he did. If he was to recalled by Buffalo, he wouldn't have to clear re-entry waivers.

 

Re-entry waivers is only intended for players who are on one-way deals or two-way contracts in which their AHL salary is in excess of the set threshold for that season (this season, it's 105k). Last season, only three full time AHL'ers where required to pass through re-entry waivers. This year I suspect it's the same.

 

Should Mancari be recalled to Buffalo, he'd only need to clear waivers again, if...... He plays more than 10 NHL games (cumulative) or is on the NHL roster for more than 30 days (cumulative).

[SabresFan526]

No, I'm sorry, but you are not correct on this issue. Mancari only needed to clear waivers when he was sent down at the beginning of the season, which he did. If he was to recalled by Buffalo, he wouldn't have to clear re-entry waivers.

 

Re-entry waivers is only intended for players who are on one-way deals or two-way contracts in which their AHL salary is in excess of the set threshold for that season (this season, it's 105k). Last season, only three full time AHL'ers where required to pass through re-entry waivers. This year I suspect it's the same.

 

Should Mancari be recalled to Buffalo, he'd only need to clear waivers again, if...... He plays more than 10 NHL games (cumulative) or is on the NHL roster for more than 30 days (cumulative).

I'm pretty sure Mancari signed a one-way deal this past offseason, not a two way deal a la Darche, Bouck, and others. Mancari was simply tendered a qualifying offer, which was a one-way deal, which he accepted during the offseason. Mancari is on a one way deal, hence I believe he is subject to re-entry waivers similar to Clarke MacArthur. I'll defer to you since you are the resident AHL and Pirates expert. Darche and some of the other AHL vets signed I do believe signed two-way deals at less than the max threshold, but again I'll defer to you.

[shrader]

I'm pretty sure Mancari signed a one-way deal this past offseason, not a two way deal a la Darche, Bouck, and others. Mancari was simply tendered a qualifying offer, which was a one-way deal, which he accepted during the offseason. Mancari is on a one way deal, hence I believe he is subject to re-entry waivers similar to Clarke MacArthur. I'll defer to you since you are the resident AHL and Pirates expert. Darche and some of the other AHL vets signed I do believe signed two-way deals at less than the max threshold, but again I'll defer to you.

 

They're on two-way deals. Both signed their QO's which are almost always two-way offers, especially for marginal players like those two.

 

Also, this team likes to pinch pennies. They would never send a guy on a one-way deal to the AHL.

[wildcat48]

I'm pretty sure Mancari signed a one-way deal this past offseason, not a two way deal a la Darche, Bouck, and others. Mancari was simply tendered a qualifying offer, which was a one-way deal, which he accepted during the offseason. Mancari is on a one way deal, hence I believe he is subject to re-entry waivers similar to Clarke MacArthur. I'll defer to you since you are the resident AHL and Pirates expert. Darche and some of the other AHL vets signed I do believe signed two-way deals at less than the max threshold, but again I'll defer to you.

 

There are no players on one-way deals in Portland.

 

Players on AHL-only contracts are Paul Baier and Aaron Slattengren

[nfreeman]

100% sure on this one. Remember, Mancari is no longer on his entry-level contract. This is his second contract with the Sabres organization, therefore he must clear waivers. He's had more than 3 years of professional hockey. It's not how much NHL experience you have, but how much experience you have of professional hockey in addition to the age in which you signed your first professional contract as well as whether or not you are on your entry-level deal which determines whether you are subject to waivers. This season is Mancari's 4th season of professional hockey, his second contract with the organization, and therefore he has to clear re-entry waivers to come up. Not only that, he had to clear waivers at the start of the season when the Sabres assigned him to Portland. Basically, it's similar to why Pominville cleared waivers when he was sent down in 2005-2006 and why he cleared re-entry waivers to come back up that same season. This is a CBA issue, not how many games you've played at the NHL level that determines your waiver elgibility. In fact, MacArthur is also subject to waivers if he's sent down to Portland. MacArthur and Mancari signed with the Sabres as professionals in the same year.

This can only be described as a punishing blow to your credibility. I urge you not to get despondent. We're still here for you. It's just that we'll have to both trust and verify in the future.

[SabresFan526]

This can only be described as a punishing blow to your credibility. I urge you not to get despondent. We're still here for you. It's just that we'll have to both trust and verify in the future.

Sorry, I'm not going to take this one lying down as I have read the CBA and know what it says. Here you go, Article 13.2 and 13.3 of the CBA:

 

13.2 The "Playing Season Waiver Period" shall begin on the twelfth (12th) day prior to

the start of the Regular Season and end on the day following the last day of a Club's

Playing Season. Subject to the provisions of this Article, the rights to the services of a

Player may be Loaned to a club of another league, upon fulfillment of the following

conditions, except when elsewhere expressly prohibited:

(a) Regular Waivers were requested and cleared during the Playing Season

Waiver Period; and

(b) the Player has not played in ten (10) or more NHL Games cumulative

since Regular Waivers on him were last cleared, and more than thirty (30) days

cumulative on an NHL roster have not passed since Regular Waivers on him were last

cleared.

13.3 Re-Entry Waivers. A Player who requires Regular Waivers may not be Recalled

without first clearing Re-Entry Waivers, in accordance with Section 50.9(g) of this

Agreement.

 

So next question is who is subject to Regular waivers, i.e. in Mancari's case a player who signs his first SPC at the age of 20. Also, we know with 100% certainty that Mancari had to clear waivers in order to be sent down to Portland. Based on how Article 13.3 reads, he would also be subject to Re-Entry waivers. But, let's just assume that is wrong and understand with certainty whether Mancari is even subject to waivers. Let's understand that he is no longer on his entry-level contract as this is his 4th professional year of hockey. Per the CBA, it states the following:

 

? A 20 year old Player who plays in one or more Professional Games in the

2005-06 season will be exempt from Regular and Re-Entry Waivers as follows:

Season Regular Waivers/Re-Entry Waivers

05-06 Exempt

06-07 Exempt

07-08 Exempt

08-09 Eligible

Note: Once a 20 year old Player has played in his 160th NHL Game, he will immediately

become eligible for Regular and Re-Entry Waivers.

There is a lot of confusion in how that note reads. What it implies is that the whichever happens first i.e. the 20 year old player completes the entry level deal or the 20 year old player plays 160 NHL games determines whether he is subject to waivers. For example, if Drew Stafford who is currently on his entry-level deal plays 160 NHL games prior to the end of his entry-level deal, he is immediately subject to waivers. In Mancari's case, since he has not played 160 NHL games, since he is no longer on his entry-level deal, he is now subject to regular waivers in the 2008-2009 season as his rookie season as a professional hockey player was 2005-2006.

 

Additionally, in the case of the Buffalo Sabres we should all know this as we have a precedent for this in our very own Jason Pominville. Remember, for Pominville, his 4th season as a professional was the 2005-2006 season meaning he was no longer on his entry level deal. After having a good camp, the Sabres assigned him to Rochester and he had to clear waivers. He then cleared re-entry waivers when he came back to Buffalo during the 2005-2006 season and as he played really well, the Sabres never took a chance again to send him down as they would lose him. I don't make this up. I'm going by what the CBA says. If there is an exception to this clause that is written in the CBA, I'll be happy to look at it and concede my argument, but based on what the CBA says right here, I think I'm on pretty solid footing with regard to who is subject to waivers and re-entry waivers.

 

If my interpretation of the CBA is incorrect, then the only person I trust with the most knowledge of the CBA is actually Taro T, and he should come and set us all straight as he is the most knowledgeable person I know on the CBA. Also, anyone who is looking to find flaws with my interpretation of the CBA, I will make it easy for you. Here's the website I used to get all my quotes from: http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf One more thing, if you still don't believe me, I also recommend you read Article 50.9.g in the CBA as it makes it very clear for players who are on one-way, two-way, exclusive AHL contracts what waiver rules apply to them. In all of the cases whether Mancari is on a one-way or two-way deal, the CBA still indicates that he must clear waivers to be sent down to Portland at the start of the season and must clear re-entry waivers to be called up by Buffalo because this is his 4th professional season of hockey. Still looks like I'm right.

[Claude Balls]

Sweet! A dude that can back up his word with fact. They need a lot more people like you over at TBD. That place has been a crap throwing festival since the losing skid.

[shrader]

13.3 Re-Entry Waivers. A Player who requires Regular Waivers may not be Recalled

without first clearing Re-Entry Waivers, in accordance with Section 50.9(g) of this

Agreement.

 

You forgot to read one part. Take a look at Section 50.9(g) just as is suggested in what you quoted above.

[SabresFan526]

You forgot to read one part. Take a look at Section 50.9(g) just as is suggested in what you quoted above.

Fair enough. Section 50.9.g from the CBA:

 

(g) Minor League Compensation. Neither the salaries nor signing bonuses

paid to minor league Players shall be counted against a Club's Upper Limit or the Players'

Share. For a Player on a One-Way NHL Contract or a Two-Way Contract with a Minor

League Salary and compensation that could be earned in excess of the following

amounts:

2005-06: U.S. $75,000

2006-07: U.S. $95,000

2007-08: U.S. $100,000

2008-09: U.S. $100,000

2009-10: U.S. $105,000

2010-11: U.S. $105,000

2011-12: U.S. $105,000

the following rules shall apply:

(i) To the extent the Player does not require Waivers to be Loaned to

a minor league affiliate, he can be freely Loaned and Recalled; and

(ii) To the extent the Player does require Waivers to be Loaned to a

minor league affiliate, he cannot be Loaned or recalled without

first clearing regular Waivers, and then cannot be Recalled to the

NHL parent Club during the same League Year without also

clearing a new Re-Entry Waiver procedure, pursuant to which the

Player can be claimed by another NHL Club for fifty (50) percent

of the contract's remaining amounts to be paid, with the balance to

be paid by and charged to the waiving NHL Club (both amounts to

be counted against each Club's Upper Limit, Actual Club Salary

and Averaged Club Salary, and counted against the Players'

Share); and

(iii) For a Player on an AHL contract with a Minor League Salary and

compensation that could be earned in excess of the applicable

amount set forth above in this Section 50.9(g), who signs an NHL

SPC for the same season with the AHL team's NHL affiliated

Club, the Player must first clear the new Re-EntryWaiver

procedure, pursuant to which the Player can be claimed by another

unaffiliated NHL team for fifty (50) percent of the SPC's

remaining amounts to be paid, with the balance to be paid by and

charged to the original NHL affiliated Club signing the contract

(both amounts to be counted against each Club's Upper Limit,

Actual Club Salary, and Averaged Club Salary and counted against

the Players' Share).

The Re-Entry Waiver procedure will not, however, be applicable to

Veteran Minor League Players defined as follows: (i) for goaltenders, Players who

have: (A) played in 180 or more professional games in North America (NHL, AHL

and ECHL), and (B) not spent more than 80 NHL games on NHL roster over the

prior two (2) seasons or more than 40 NHL games on NHL roster in the

immediately prior season; and (ii) for defensemen and forwards, Players who have:

224

(A) played in 320 or more professional games in North America (NHL, AHL and

ECHL), and (B) not spent more than 80 NHL games on NHL roster over the prior

two (2) seasons or more than 40 NHL games on NHL roster in the immediately

prior season.

NHL games missed due to a Player being on Injured Reserve or Injured

Non-Roster count for purposes of determining whether a Player has surpassed the

80 or 40 NHL game thresholds, respectively.

The Re-Entry Waiver status of Players for the upcoming League Year will

be determined annually no later than June 30 during each year of the Agreement

and will not be adjusted during the League Year.

Players who spent more than 40 NHL games on NHL roster (or on Injured

Reserve or Injured Non-Roster) during the 2003-04 season, and who subsequently

played in the AHL during the 2004-05 season, would not have any 2004-05 AHL

games count toward the professional "games played" criteria. For purposes of

determining NHL games for the 2004-05 season, a Player shall be credited with an

additional number of NHL games on NHL roster (or on Injured Reserve or Injured

Non-Roster) in an amount equal to the number of NHL games on NHL roster in the

2003-04 season.

 

I've highlighted in bold section ii, which specifically applies to Mancari. Unless Mancari is earning less than $100K in the minors, he must clear re-entry waivers upon being recalled by the Buffalo Sabres since he is waiver eligible as this is his fourth year of professional hockey. I've also highlighted in bold where the re-entry waiver process would not apply to Mancari. Unfortunately, he has not played in more than 320 professional hockey games, so the re-entry waiver exemption does not apply to him as a veteran.

 

The argument that I anticipate hearing is that re-entry waiver rule would only apply for players making AHL salaries greater than $100K this year. First, I'm not privy to Mancari's AHL salary and a simple google search does not come up with this data. So, if someone knows that, I anticipate that to be the first argument. The problem, however, is this section states that those players are subject to re-entry waivers, it, however does not explicitly state that players on two-way contracts less than the maximum threshold are not subject to re-entry waivers nor does it say exactly what they are subject to besides what we know Article 13.2 and Article 13.3. Given the wording of the CBA, I can only interpret that to mean that Mancari is subject to re-entry waivers upon getting called up by the Sabres as the CBA does not explicitly state otherwise. If my interpretation is wrong, I'm willing to accept it if there is evidence written in the CBA that says the contrary.

[nfreeman]

This is shaping up to be quite a donnybrook.

 

526 reminds me of the Sabres during the 1st 2 post-lockout seasons. He has heart. Everyone else may have given up, but he doesn't quit.

 

Shrader -- rebuttal?

[shrader]

It's exactly what you said, the $100,000 threshold. It's next to impossible to get into the legalease of that whole document, but that is what it comes down to. The NHL and the NHLPA have had their full teams of lawyers read through that document in far more detail than any of us have and this is the way they read it.

 

Look, we know you want proof, but it's damn near impossible to find. You're going to have to take the word of someone like wildcat who looks to be around the team and the management in Portland all the time. As for the money he actually makes, Mancari's NHL salary would be $522K. Like you said, it's next to impossible to find AHL salaries, bt a very generous approximation of an AHL salary would be to hack a zero off of their NHL deal. The AHL end of a two-way contract is capped off at less that 10% of the NHL max. The contracts aren't going to suddenly scale way up beyond that, so I have no problem with taking that 10% approximation approach. So yes, Mancari is under $100K, as is every other guy down in Portland.

 

If you want more to support that this is indeed the way things work, do a search for players that have been placed on re-entry waivers over the last few years. You won't find all that many people. Surely that supports the idea that not all non-entry level players have to clear re-entry.

[spndnchz]

I do know that only players with entry level contracts are capped in the AHL. After that, no cap.

 

These are the caps for year drafted going forward.

2008 $ 65,000

2009 $ 67,500

2010 $ 67,500

2011 $ 70,000