[OT] Political Discussion

[carpandean]

The Founding Fathers wanted its citizens to have the ability to fight back and tear down the government if/when the time came where it no longer worked for its constituents but rather for its own power.

Oh, you mean something like this:

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[darksabre]

What does the Bible have to do with a politics discussion?

[Eleven]

What does the Bible have to do with a politics discussion?

 

In this country, all too much, unfortunately.

[deluca67]

Have you read the constitution? It can be rather vague and not provide a direct meaning on a number of things in our government. Yet, our nation interprets and follows the constitution.

The Bible, too, can be vague, on a limited bases, on how we are to live our lives and practice our faith. The 6th commandment says thou shall not commit murder. Life is created by God. The moment the egg is fertilzed God has created life. A person that practices abortion is committing murder.

I pray that one day you will find our lord and our saviour.

While you are at it can you write a letter to Santa for me?

 

I see that you are very anti-abortion. Do you also protest the war? Do you protest the manufacture and sale of hands guns? Are you a vegan or do you only believe god creates human life? I have to ask because over time I have found most anti-abortionist to be most hypocritical. In most cases their feelings about abortion don't translate to other acts of violence and other forms of life.

[bob_sauve28]

WRONG :wallbash: . The second amendment was first and foremost about the right to defend one's self, family, and property from GOVERNMENT. The Founding Fathers wanted its citizens to have the ability to fight back and tear down the government if/when the time came where it no longer worked for its constituents but rather for its own power. The right to hunt and the right to self-defense from criminals naturally follows from the aforementioned primary aim.

I was always taught that the second amendment was all about killing Indians on the frontier and putting down slave uprising in the south. And since those were both very real facts of life back when the Constitution was written I'd say that is about right.

[darksabre]

In this country, all too much, unfortunately.

 

I'm glad you caught what I was implying :thumbsup:

[deluca67]

What does the Bible have to do with a politics discussion?

Sorry about that. It's just when some feel the need to thump their Bible I feel the need to thump them in the head with it. Religion has no place in politics or government. The worlds greatest atrocities can be linked back to that disastrous marriage.

[bob_sauve28]

I'm not normally in the business of defending religious people, neither their beliefs nor their actions. However, donation statistics from religious organizations show that many religious people are quite charitable. It's not that they don't want to help the poor, it's that they don't feel the government should FORCE them to help the poor. They'd rather do it through private charity; it's a much more efficient way of helping others, and the non-compulsory element of it all makes it more wholesome.

More efficient? I guess you haven't been paying attention. Private charities are ripe with corruption. Some estimates put it as high as 25% of all money donated is grafted away by corrupt managers that have zero oversight.

[deluca67]

More efficient? I guess you haven't been paying attention. Private charities are ripe with corruption. Some estimates put it as high as 25% of all money donated is grafted away by corrupt managers that have zero oversight.

Not to mention the billions of dollars in wealth amassed by the Vatican.

[wjag]

Not to mention the billions of dollars in wealth amassed by the Vatican.

Hey they need that to pay for the lawsuits...

[darksabre]

Sorry about that. It's just when some feel the need to thump their Bible I feel the need to thump them in the head with it. Religion has no place in politics or government. The worlds greatest atrocities can be linked back to that disastrous marriage.

 

I agree with you. And it has always been my belief that when politicians cite their religious values, it is one of the biggest lies people can be suckered into. Flaunting your religious morality is just a way to say "I'm a good person" without actually having to own up to the specifics of being honest, virtuous, noble, etc. I work very hard every day to be an honest, charitable person. I have no religion, I feel no need to have one. Holding myself accountable for my actions is much more legitimate than saying "well I go to church and stuff, so I'm a good person" which is what a lot of people would rather hear. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater here. I have a best friend who is very devout and she is the kindest, most caring person I have ever met and will never push religion on anyone, but I think she would be an outlier when compared with the majority of people she worships with.

 

I guess I just don't see why religion is the measure of a man that so many people make it to be.

[Guest Sloth]

While you are at it can you write a letter to Santa for me?

 

I see that you are very anti-abortion. Do you also protest the war? Do you protest the manufacture and sale of hands guns? Are you a vegan or do you only believe god creates human life? I have to ask because over time I have found most anti-abortionist to be most hypocritical. In most cases their feelings about abortion don't translate to other acts of violence and other forms of life.

 

Everyone has a right to have their own beliefs and opinions, but do not ever try to put a stereo type upon a person's faith. And certainly do not attempt to degrade a person's belief. Comparing my belief to Santa was wrong. What you have done is offensive and disrespectful. In the past, I, not once, tried to slam you. I simply stated my beliefs and expressed hope you would one day have a change of thought. And I still hope one day you will have that change of thought. I forgive you for what you have done and I hope you have learned something from this.

[deluca67]

Everyone has a right to have their own beliefs and opinions, but do not ever try to put a stereo type upon a person's faith. And certainly do not attempt to degrade a person's belief. Comparing my belief to Santa was wrong. What you have done is offensive and disrespectful. In the past, I, not once, tried to slam you. I simply stated my beliefs and expressed hope you would one day have a change of thought. And I still hope one day you will have that change of thought. I forgive you for what you have done and I hope you have learned something from this.

So, you're not going to answer my questions?

 

I find Religion to be "offensive and disrespectful".

[deluca67]

I agree with you. And it has always been my belief that when politicians cite their religious values, it is one of the biggest lies people can be suckered into. Flaunting your religious morality is just a way to say "I'm a good person" without actually having to own up to the specifics of being honest, virtuous, noble, etc. I work very hard every day to be an honest, charitable person. I have no religion, I feel no need to have one. Holding myself accountable for my actions is much more legitimate than saying "well I go to church and stuff, so I'm a good person" which is what a lot of people would rather hear. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater here. I have a best friend who is very devout and she is the kindest, most caring person I have ever met and will never push religion on anyone, but I think she would be an outlier when compared with the majority of people she worships with.

 

I guess I just don't see why religion is the measure of a man that so many people make it to be.

It's likely it makes them feel somewhat justified. No one wants to come to the realization that they have wasted a portion of their lives. I have family members that where the born again types for a while. It was amazing what a cult like existence they lived.

[Guest Sloth]

So, you're not going to answer my questions?

 

I find Religion to be "offensive and disrespectful".

 

To make it quick and simple. I am not a hypocrite. I practice all parts of my faith.

 

I have no type of anger towards the things you have written and you'll have my forgiveness even if you do not want it. My faith is strong.

[deluca67]

To make it quick and simple. I am not a hypocrite. I practice all parts of my faith.

 

I have no type of anger towards the things you have written and you'll have my forgiveness even if you do not want it. My faith is strong.

Why can't you answer simple questions?

[X. Benedict]

The worlds greatest atrocities can be linked back to that disastrous marriage.

 

Nah.......it doesn't even come close to nationalism or racism.

[JohnRobertEichel]

I was always taught that the second amendment was all about killing Indians on the frontier and putting down slave uprising in the south. And since those were both very real facts of life back when the Constitution was written I'd say that is about right.

 

Congratulations, you've just had a Palin moment. I don't know which emoticon to use that can best capture my feelings right now. :lol: at your stupidity? :cry: at the job your "educators" did for you? Or maybe :sick: that so many voters like you have such little understanding of our Constitution, thus enabling the current state of our two parties?

 

Go check out the English Bill of Rights sometime, pal. And read the Federalist Papers while you're at it. All of them. Knowledge is good.

[JohnRobertEichel]

More efficient? I guess you haven't been paying attention. Private charities are ripe with corruption. Some estimates put it as high as 25% of all money donated is grafted away by corrupt managers that have zero oversight.

 

And how does this refute my assertion in any way? So private charities are "ripe with corruption" - 25%, says you. Fine. For the sake of argument, I'll assume you are correct. Under government control, do you know what the percentage of money intended for the poor and sick is that never gets to them? Probably much greater than 25%.

 

The nice thing about private charities is that you can simply stop sending the corrupt ones checks. Let's see you try that one with the IRS.

[bob_sauve28]

Congratulations, you've just had a Palin moment. I don't know which emoticon to use that can best capture my feelings right now. :lol: at your stupidity? :cry: at the job your "educators" did for you? Or maybe :sick: that so many voters like you have such little understanding of our Constitution, thus enabling the current state of our two parties?

 

Go check out the English Bill of Rights sometime, pal. And read the Federalist Papers while you're at it. All of them. Knowledge is good.

I think you are a very ignorant person. I just told you my point of view and get called all these names, and then you back up your slurs with more ignorance. To an educated person your post must have been pretty funny.

 

From the English Bill of Rights:

 

Freedom for Protestants to bear arms for their own defence, as suitable to their class and as allowed by law.

 

Yes, freedom for the dominant group to carry weapons, just like in the colonies and the first states. I stand by my assertion that fighting Indians and controlling the slaves from rebellion was a key part of the motivation for the Second Amendment. Were slave uprisings a scary thing? Yes. Were Indians still a "problem" to those Americans that wanted to steal their land. Yes.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about in the Federalist papers. Perhaps you can tell me which Federalist paper you meant. Somehow I think you just threw that out there in an attempt to look like you knew what you were blabbing about. If so, it failed.

[bob_sauve28]

And how does this refute my assertion in any way? So private charities are "ripe with corruption" - 25%, says you. Fine. For the sake of argument, I'll assume you are correct. Under government control, do you know what the percentage of money intended for the poor and sick is that never gets to them? Probably much greater than 25%.

 

The nice thing about private charities is that you can simply stop sending the corrupt ones checks. Let's see you try that one with the IRS.

I won't have to try, because clods like you are now heading towrads minority status in our government so the government can take care of things just fine. Ever hear of a church providing free health care to the elderly? Me either :oops:

[darksabre]

You know what, can we get this thread closed? Politics and religion discussions ruin otherwise good forums. Everyone has their opinions and no discussion on the interwebs is going to change anyone's mind.

 

Anyone else in favor?

[Guest Sloth]

Why can't you answer simple questions?

 

Why can't you understand a simple answer?

 

DeLuca, you're hurting yourself. Take my advice and quit trying to discuss this. You have your beliefs and I have mine. What bothers me is your attempt to stereotype the Christian faith. I don't stereotype a person of a particular faith, race, level of education, etc... It appears as if you do and that is unfortunate.

[Bmwolf21]

You know what, can we get this thread closed? Politics and religion discussions ruin otherwise good forums. Everyone has their opinions and no discussion on the interwebs is going to change anyone's mind.

 

Anyone else in favor?

Seconded.

[Guest Sloth]

Seconded.

 

I'd like this to end as well.