[OT] Political Discussion

[SwampD]

And Neville Chamberlain enabled Hitler through his failed appeasement - by your logic, do also hold the Brits accountable for Hitler's atrocities?

Nope. Trying to stop a war is a pretty noble goal in my opinion. But I do hold Gran-pappy Bush accountable. His assets were seized 2 years into the war for trading with the enemy. He help fund the man responsible for the arming of Hitler's Germany(sound familiar?). I've said it before, I'll say it again, the Bushes have been getting rich off of war for almost a century now. I won't be sad to see them go.

 

 

Now, if we could only get Billy off of Enternainment Tonight.

[deluca67]

The only mythology you know is the miserable fantasy known as Socialism.

 

And again you forget to omit one key fact - Hussein the Butcher is dead. Your lame attempts at Revisionist History are comical.

 

Don't misquote me again - that is your specialty; I was clearly referring to Obama as the Messiah - he is going to put money in every needy person's pocket, right?

How about those butchering innocents by the hundreds of thousands in the Sudan? Since they don't have the Oil that Iraq has the 'W' had no interest.

 

Money in the "needy person's pocket" is better than the money to those who pockets are overflowing.

[deluca67]

What does Dick Cheney have to do with Rahm Emannuel?

Sorry man, if you can't follow along I'm not going to explain it to you.

[X. Benedict]

nice try - and what exactly did Hussein do with this power? He abused it to the point of gassing Kurds.....nice

Let's be precise shall we.

 

The Rummy photo is from 1983....when the US was clearly siding with Iraq over Iran in their war.

Arms sales ensued though 1989 through official and through 3rd parties.

The Kurds were gassed in 1988...and even though there were congressional hearings on the matter...the

Reagan and then Bush teams imposed no sanctions... in fact it was after that that the US approved 1 Billion in agricultural

credit guarantees to Iraq....and $200 million in development aid....

 

The Kurds getting gassed didn't really draw much notice until it was tacked on to the causus belli in the lead-up to the Gulf War in the summer of 90.

[nobody]

please, stop the conspiratorial melodrama ..... not gonna happen

 

 

Don't misquote me again - that is your specialty; I was clearly referring to Obama as the Messiah - he is going to put money in every needy person's pocket, right?

 

 

As an homage to you let me rearticulate: please, stop the Messianic melodrama.

[SarasotaSabre]

As an homage to you let me rearticulate: please, stop the Messianic melodrama.

 

I am not being melodramatic - it is a known fact that Obama was and is viewed in this light by the masses who voted for him. Statement of fact is not melodrama - sorry you can't accept this fact.

[SarasotaSabre]

How about those butchering innocents by the hundreds of thousands in the Sudan? Since they don't have the Oil that Iraq has the 'W' had no interest.

 

Money in the "needy person's pocket" is better than the money to those who pockets are overflowing.

 

ARe we supposed to be the world's caregiver for every instance of genocide? I thought that's what the impotent UN was for?

 

Depends on your definition of "pockets that are overflowing".... I call that income redistribution. I certainly do want you or those of that ilk making that value judgment....

[SarasotaSabre]

ARe we supposed to be the world's caregiver for every instance of genocide? I thought that's what the impotent UN was for?

 

Depends on your definition of "pockets that are overflowing".... I call that income redistribution. I certainly do NOT want you or those of that ilk making that value judgment....

[nobody]

See that little "Edit" button under the posts you make?

[nobody]

I am not being melodramatic - it is a known fact that Obama was and is viewed in this light by the masses who voted for him. Statement of fact is not melodrama - sorry you can't accept this fact.

 

 

I have not heard an Obama supporter calling him the "Messiah"; that tends to come from non-supporters. Maybe some out in this vast world might have used the lower case "messiah" as someone who will save this country but I haven't heard that either.

[Bmwolf21]

I have not heard an Obama supporter calling him the "Messiah"; that tends to come from non-supporters. Maybe some out in this vast world might have used the lower case "messiah" as someone who will save this country but I haven't heard that either.

Same here. The "Messiah" stuff and "enjoy socialism" crap is already getting old.

[stenbaro]

Same here. The "Messiah" stuff and "enjoy socialism" crap is already getting old.

I agree....However wouldnt it be nice to not have to work and just stay home and let the government take care of your every needs..Sarcasm on....

[Bmwolf21]

I agree....However wouldnt it be nice to not have to work and just stay home and let the government take care of your every needs..Sarcasm on....

No argument here. ;)

[FogBat]

Same here. The "Messiah" stuff and "enjoy socialism" crap is already getting old.

Imagine how some of us felt when we kept hearing the terms "hope", "change", and "yes we can" incessantly. They came across as empty and formless rhetoric.

[bob_sauve28]

I agree....However wouldnt it be nice to not have to work and just stay home and let the government take care of your every needs..Sarcasm on....

Or just stay home and starve because there are no jobs.....Wouldn't that be fun!

[Bmwolf21]

Imagine how some of us felt when we kept hearing the terms "hope", "change", and "yes we can" incessantly. They came across as empty and formless rhetoric.

You would have a valid point if we were in year three or four of a failing term for Obama. But considering he hasn't even been sworn in and you're already calling his tenure a failure and his plans to change things empty and useless rhetoric, so forgive me if I don't feel too bad about bruised egos and hurt feelings on the GOP side.

 

But you're right, people should definitely get ticked off when people use terms like hope and change to distinguish themselves from the crap we've dealt with for the last eight years. How dare people look to a new administration and the next four years with some form of hope?

[SwampD]

Imagine how some of us felt when we kept hearing the terms "hope", "change", and "yes we can" incessantly. They came across as empty and formless rhetoric.

Even you have to admit, though, that was better than,"Drill here, drill now" That's some pretty heady stuff.

[FogBat]

Even you have to admit, though, that was better than,"Drill here, drill now" That's some pretty heady stuff.

You forgot to add, "Pay less".

 

It had momentum back in July when we were facing the possibility of $5/gal. of gas. Now that the global economy has tanked, it no longer appears to have any traction. Don't worry. This fiasco will come back to haunt us again someday, and then we'll hear all the usual excuses like "It'll take 10 years before we see anything come of it." Sure, it WILL take 10 years (and then some) because no one will take action.

 

And they say "Talk is cheap." No kidding.

[FogBat]

You would have a valid point if we were in year three or four of a failing term for Obama. But considering he hasn't even been sworn in and you're already calling his tenure a failure and his plans to change things empty and useless rhetoric, so forgive me if I don't feel too bad about bruised egos and hurt feelings on the GOP side.

 

But you're right, people should definitely get ticked off when people use terms like hope and change to distinguish themselves from the crap we've dealt with for the last eight years. How dare people look to a new administration and the next four years with some form of hope?

Hold on. I didn't say that the Obama administration was a failure by any means. What is banal is the way that certain words get thrown around like they're devoid of any substance and intelligence.

 

In all seriousness, I am not optimistic that he's going to produce the results that he supposedly promised. I am even more pessimistic that he's going to put an end to talk radio by resurrecting the Fairness Doctrine (which is a double misnomer at the very root of it).

 

I normally respect you, but I think your last paragraph was a veiled attempt at obfuscation.

[FogBat]

Sorry man, if you can't follow along I'm not going to explain it to you.

You're right. I'm not going to follow along with a non sequitur argument. The logic and sequence were both missing on your part. Rahm Emanuel had nothing to do with Dick Cheney.

 

Finis.

[Bmwolf21]

Hold on. I didn't say that the Obama administration was a failure by any means. What is banal is the way that certain words get thrown around like they're devoid of any substance and intelligence.

 

In all seriousness, I am not optimistic that he's going to produce the results that he supposedly promised. I am even more pessimistic that he's going to put an end to talk radio by resurrecting the Fairness Doctrine (which is a double misnomer at the very root of it).

 

I normally respect you, but I think your last paragraph was a veiled attempt at obfuscation.

Nope, sorry -- no veiled attempts as obfuscation. What exactly am I trying to hide? My disdain for the current admin? Done. Admitted freely, out in the open. I meant exactly what I wrote. The new admin, despite all the Chicken Littles crying that we're about to become socialists, communists, etc., represents hope for a lot of people. That was what I had issue with - a lot of people who supported/support Obama do believe that change will come, and most are smart enough to realize that it will not happen January 21, 2009 - that it will take a while to get us out of the current financial and political messes we are in. But that doesn't mean that hope and change are empty and useless rhetoric. If he gets into office and his admin is as bad as GWB's, then I will be right there calling for change at the next election. But I'm willing to wait and see what he does before I skewer him and start predicting his failure.

 

Maybe I misunderstood your use of the past tense (came across as empty and formless rhetoric) as predicting the President-elect's administration will fail, and if I did jump to an inaccurate conclusion of your opinion, I apologize.

[FogBat]

Nope, sorry -- no veiled attempts as obfuscation. What exactly am I trying to hide? My disdain for the current admin? Done. Admitted freely, out in the open. I meant exactly what I wrote. The new admin, despite all the Chicken Littles crying that we're about to become socialists, communists, etc., represents hope for a lot of people. That was what I had issue with - a lot of people who supported/support Obama do believe that change will come, and most are smart enough to realize that it will not happen January 21, 2009 - that it will take a while to get us out of the current financial and political messes we are in. But that doesn't mean that hope and change are empty and useless rhetoric. If he gets into office and his admin is as bad as GWB's, then I will be right there calling for change at the next election. But I'm willing to wait and see what he does before I skewer him and start predicting his failure.

 

Maybe I misunderstood your use of the past tense (came across as empty and formless rhetoric) as predicting the President-elect's administration will fail, and if I did jump to an inaccurate conclusion of your opinion, I apologize.

It was pretty much in past tense. I don't have much patience with people who rely on such words and use them unceasingly. It comes across to me as more symbolism over substance. I could talk about "real hope and real change" and where I and everyone else can find it because it is completely outside of the realm of politics, but this is definitely not the thread for me to elaborate on that.

 

As for Obama, I will be watching what he does closely. Not only him, but Congress as well.

 

Having said that, I do accept your apology. At the same time, I do apologize for accusing you of obfuscation.

[Bmwolf21]

Having said that, I do accept your apology. At the same time, I do apologize for accusing you of obfuscation.

No harm, no foul. :thumbsup:

[FogBat]

I like Christian mythology :thumbsup:

Then this man is your kind of guy. :chris:

[nobody]

Maverick

 

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Joe the Plumber