[OT] Political Discussion

[cdexchange]

Not to mention the millions of unborn children who will still be murdered all in the name of "choooooooooooooooiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice".

 

Republicans had nearly a decade's control of the Presidency and the Congress, and of course they didn't overturn Roe v. Wade. And they never will. If they did, then they would no longer be able to use it as a wedge issue to drive the evangelicals to the polls. They care about power, not babies.

 

 

Here was something I saw on YouTube. Not the first time I've read something like this. Came across something similar in 1993 when Clinton (that draft dodger) got into office:

 

PSALM 2008-2012

 

Obama Is My Shepherd, I Shall Not Want.

He Leadeth Me Beside Still Factories,

He Restoreth My Faith In The Republican Party,

He Guideth Me In The Paths Of Unemployment.

Yea, Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Bread Line, I Shall Not Go Hungry.

Obama Has Anointed My Income With Taxes,

My Expenses Runneth Over My Income,

Surely, Poverty And Hard Living Will Follow Me All The Days Of My Life.

The Democrats And I Will Live Forever In a Rented Room.

But I Am Glad I Am an American,

I Am Glad That I Am Free.

But I Wish I Was A Dog

And Obama Was A Tree. :)

 

 

That's extraordinarily stupid.

[darksabre]

No, thats on a different site, "The Stadium Wall" at Two Bills Drive :lol:

 

I know now how the Republicans felt in 04 when Bush was reelected and people like me were running around our high schools crying that Bush was going to reinstate the draft and we were all screwed. Looking back, I must have looked really silly making such outrageous claims. Now I have room mates running around crying about how we "elected a damn sand n*gger!" and how he's "going to unionize america" and "take away all of our guns!" and "give all of our money to the poor!" and "OMG SOCIALISM!!!!1111one!!!"

 

Everyone needs to calm down and think about how ridiculous they sound.

[FogBat]

I know now how the Republicans felt in 04 when Bush was reelected and people like me were running around our high schools crying that Bush was going to reinstate the draft and we were all screwed. Looking back, I must have looked really silly making such outrageous claims. Now I have room mates running around crying about how we "elected a damn sand n*gger!" and how he's "going to unionize america" and "take away all of our guns!" and "give all of our money to the poor!" and "OMG SOCIALISM!!!!1111one!!!"

 

Everyone needs to calm down and think about how ridiculous they sound.

The "wait and see" POV is a bit painful when there were a number of people who didn't vote for some of these elected officials.

 

We'll just have to be alert to whatever gets proposed for legislation and be active and alert. After all, these elected officials are supposed to "serve the people".

[Stoner]

I was with a group of people who were trying to say that this fact showed the real difference between the two groups, which I think is complete BS. That gathering in Chicago was thrilled. It didn't matter what he said, they were going to cheer every word. It's no different than any championship ceremony (other than in Philly). The winning fans cheer when the losing team is acknowledged.

 

 

But anyway, I have to mention one thing about this coverage so far that really annoys me. Yes, I realize how major a moment this is, but all the african american president comments are driving me crazy. I'm a big fan of acknowledging your history and your origins, but they're completely ignoring half of who Obama is. He may be the 1st black president, but he's also the 44th white president. All this coverage suggests that he won because he is black. That completely undermines the real reasons here. He won because he was the best candidate. Yes, it's a history moment, but it is far more than just that.

 

Now I just hope no one calls me a racist.

 

I'm kind of a stickler too when it comes to these things. I always thought, for example, and Italian-American was someone who was born in Italy and immigrated (emigrated? damn now I have to look that up!) to this country. Shouldn't an African-American be someone who was born in Africa? All of these terms tend to divide us. We're all Americans. I've always thought it kind of funny that these labels get tossed around when we're basically a mongrel, mixed-breed people.

 

Oh! I should save this for the complaints, but I can't wait. "Obama wins Ohio -- CNN projection." Shouldn't that be "Obama will win Ohio"? Those exit polls drive me nuts. The media really seems to want to give itself more power than it really has. Giving someone a state the moment the polls close makes my skin crawl.

 

Then Wolf says, "CNN projects Obama will win Oregon, no real surprise there." Uh... so before the election, CNN thinks Obama will win Oregon, then when the polls close, they say they think Obama will win Oregon. Of course there's no surprise!

[FogBat]

I'm kind of a stickler too when it comes to these things. I always thought, for example, and Italian-American was someone who was born in Italy and immigrated (emigrated? damn now I have to look that up!) to this country. Shouldn't an African-American be someone who was born in Africa? All of these terms tend to divide us. We're all Americans. I've always thought it kind of funny that these labels get tossed around when we're basically a mongrel, mixed-breed people.

 

Oh! I should save this for the complaints, but I can't wait. "Obama wins Ohio -- CNN projection." Shouldn't that be "Obama will win Ohio"? Those exit polls drive me nuts. The media really seems to want to give itself more power than it really has. Giving someone a state the moment the polls close makes my skin crawl.

 

Then Wolf says, "CNN projects Obama will win Oregon, no real surprise there." Uh... so before the election, CNN thinks Obama will win Oregon, then when the polls close, they say they think Obama will win Oregon. Of course there's no surprise!

CNN wasn't the only network that did that last night. Fox said the same thing about West Virginia about McCain.

 

One thing's for sure: this type of scenario didn't happen last night.

[bob_sauve28]

I'm so happy. We finally have a decent President the country can be proud of. The last eight years have been like wading through sewage. I hope Obama is able to get his tax, eneergy and infrastructure projects through Congress quickly.

[bob_sauve28]

You absolutely cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. There is no governmental solution that can overcome that obstacle.

Are you suggesting we should have pulled out of Iraq in 2003? Or is that different? Seems to me that many Republicans--not saying you, I don't know--want to rebulid Iraq and make sure we deny, cut off and ensure that nothing gets spent at all on the cities. Those inner city people are all lazy, violent and refuse to even help themselves--unless its "five finger discount self help." Right?

[spndnchz]

You absolutely cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. There is no governmental solution that can overcome that obstacle.

:thumbsup:

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━━━━┃　┃　　　　┗━┳┳━- Maybe that's too harsh but,

 

these "people" as you stereotype them, whether they're poor or wealthy, religious or atheists, with obstacles in their "way", don't see the forest through the trees. The government solution can't be leave them alone, or be "here's the handout". The solution is to help them learn to help themselves. Absolutely, as you put it, if they could see light at the end of tunnel, not meaning God, but their own salvation and rewards, surely the middle class could be the upper class and the lower class could be the "new" middle class.

 

Stop trying to be understood and start to understand. He said he'd be honest with us, bring it.

[SDS]

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━━━━┃　┃　　　　┗━┳┳━- Maybe that's too harsh but,

 

these "people" as you stereotype them, whether they're poor or wealthy, religious or atheists, with obstacles in their "way", don't see the forest through the trees. The government solution can't be leave them alone, or be "here's the handout". The solution is to help them learn to help themselves. Absolutely, as you put it, if they could see light at the end of tunnel, not meaning God, but their own salvation and rewards, surely the middle class could be the upper class and the lower class could be the "new" middle class.

 

Stop trying to be understood and start to understand. He said he'd be honest with us, bring it.

 

 

I must say, this post was a little vague...

 

If there is 1 program to help the poor - then there are 1000's. Government, church based, private, whatever. We just pile one program on top of another. Why? Because you can't make someone "learn to help themselves". The best you can do is make sure they have enough to prevent rioting. To claim we aren't doing anything about them is absurd. The problem is that there is only so much you can do until those you seek to help choose to pursue that path themselves.

 

I'm pretty sure the Asian community doesn't have a red carpet rolled out for them here in America. Yet, they somehow find a way. In fact, some universities have CAPS on the number of Asian students in their programs. America has PLENTY of opportunity for those who seek it. Immigrants seek that opportunity by the millions. I'm not sure you can make the same statement about our own citizens across the country.

[TM8-PL16]

I've worked for gov't programs that "help the low income help themselves" and I've seen it time and again, many of them do just enough to "qualify" for the 'free' stuff... They show up for their required hours or they turn in just enough job applications to keep getting their welfare checks and food stamps (access card). I've taught some of these "classes" they have to attend, 98% of the people in them that I've seen are there because that's the only way they will get "credit" for the program and still get 'free' money. Granted, the 2% that gets something out of it and get a job and get off the system is a great thing... but honestly that 2% is usually the people that are fell on hard times and are embarassed to get a gov't handout so they bust their butt to get out of it.

The welfare programs were not set up to be a way of life, there are plenty of opportunites to use the gov't to get ahead the way they were intended. Short term help.

 

I've had several clients actually get a job and then quit when they were asked to do their job (not the 2% mentioned above I mean). There are more than enough programs out now and most of them are just throwing money away because of the attitude of the clients.

[Goodfella25]

Okay Sarah, it's time for you to go back home.... Or should I call you Joe? :w00t:

 

Hah, that's right friend, stay in your phony controlled left-right paradigm. I love how anyone who is against Obama must be for the "other side" (which is really just the other side of the SAME coin).

 

I am just saying, I hope you enjoy socialism. It should be fun. Those were your choices in the election--a socialist or a war hawk. But it's feel good time now, so let's immitate the folks on TV and fall down in a heap of tears because at last our savior has arrived.

 

:worthy: OBAMA

[Bmwolf21]

The "wait and see" POV is a bit painful when there were a number of people who didn't vote for some of these elected officials.

 

We'll just have to be alert to whatever gets proposed for legislation and be active and alert. After all, these elected officials are supposed to "serve the people".

That happens in almost every election - there are a number of people who didn't vote for some elected officials. You know, like in a few presidential elections when the winner lost the popular vote but won the electoral vote.

 

I just hope that people who supported McCain heed his advice from his concession speech:

 

I urge all Americans ... I urge all Americans who supported me to join me in not just congratulating him, but offering our next president our good will and earnest effort to find ways to come together to find the necessary compromises to bridge our differences and help restore our prosperity, defend our security in a dangerous world, and leave our children and grandchildren a stronger, better country than we inherited.

 

Whatever our differences, we are fellow Americans. And please believe me when I say no association has ever meant more to me than that.

 

It is natural. It's natural, tonight, to feel some disappointment. But tomorrow, we must move beyond it and work together to get our country moving again.

[Bmwolf21]

I know now how the Republicans felt in 04 when Bush was reelected and people like me were running around our high schools crying that Bush was going to reinstate the draft and we were all screwed. Looking back, I must have looked really silly making such outrageous claims. Now I have room mates running around crying about how we "elected a damn sand n*gger!" and how he's "going to unionize america" and "take away all of our guns!" and "give all of our money to the poor!" and "OMG SOCIALISM!!!!1111one!!!"

 

Everyone needs to calm down and think about how ridiculous they sound.

Amen.

[Fisherman Phil]

:worthy: OBAMA :worthy:

 

LONG LIVE THE KING!!!

[Corp000085]

Agree w/ everything you said. More than 50% of votes went towars Obabma. Most elections have a president electee receiving 48% or so. That does show how much our countryis changing.

 

Just one thing to point out. The Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was fought over state's rights. (South despised a number of tariffs passed) States in the south did not like the idea of the federal government taking away power they had. The south had the belief the the United States was formed so states could have more control over what went on. Remember, Lincoln did offer the Emancipation Proclamation to the CSA. He told the CSA if they rejoined the Union prior 1-1-1863, they could keep their right to own slaves. Lincoln simply wanted the CSA back in the USA. Also, during the Civil War, there were slave states that were not a part of the CSA. Lincoln never said anything about taking slavery away from them.

 

 

I know very well the history of the United States. I especially am into civil war history and the politics leading to it. Heck, the seeds to the civil war were sewn in the ratification process of the declaration of independence. That stuff simply fascinates me. With that said, yes, you are correct, the war was fought over states rights and the control of the federal government., But, if you can tell me with a straight face that slavery wasn't the main issue over federal vs. states rights, then you have found my true identity: I am Abraham Lincoln, damn glad to meet you. In my original post, I simply used slavery as the civil war issue to press a point. Also, Lincoln did not free the slaves with the emancipation proclamation. He used that to cause slavery uprisings in the south to weaken the confederate forces and their infrastructure. At that point, Lincoln had no intentions of freeing the slaves outright. No doubt he would have after the war, but he didn't live long enough for that to happen.

[inkman]

:worthy: OBAMA :worthy:

 

LONG LIVE THE KING!!!

:unsure:

[FogBat]

I know very well the history of the United States. I especially am into civil war history and the politics leading to it. Heck, the seeds to the civil war were sewn in the ratification process of the declaration of independence. That stuff simply fascinates me. With that said, yes, you are correct, the war was fought over states rights and the control of the federal government., But, if you can tell me with a straight face that slavery wasn't the main issue over federal vs. states rights, then you have found my true identity: I am Abraham Lincoln, damn glad to meet you. In my original post, I simply used slavery as the civil war issue to press a point. Also, Lincoln did not free the slaves with the emancipation proclamation. He used that to cause slavery uprisings in the south to weaken the confederate forces and their infrastructure. At that point, Lincoln had no intentions of freeing the slaves outright. No doubt he would have after the war, but he didn't live long enough for that to happen.

IIRC, the name "Abraham Lincoln" in the South could be synonymous with Benedict Arnold in the War for Independence.

[wjag]

Hah, that's right friend, stay in your phony controlled left-right paradigm. I love how anyone who is against Obama must be for the "other side" (which is really just the other side of the SAME coin).

 

I am just saying, I hope you enjoy socialism. It should be fun. Those were your choices in the election--a socialist or a war hawk. But it's feel good time now, so let's immitate the folks on TV and fall down in a heap of tears because at last our savior has arrived.

 

:worthy: OBAMA

Funny thing is, I am a dyed in the wool conservative on many issues.. I voted the Republicans, my life long party, out of office yesterday. I'm thrilled that Obama won, but in all honesty, could have lived quite happily with John McCain. I just strongly believe that the socialism club that is being used is a red herring.

 

John McCain made three major gaffs, IMO, that cost him the election. First, he chose a nobody to be VP. I have nothing against SP the person, but I have everything against her qualifications to be VP this year. If she wants to spend the next four years learning the issues, I just might vote for her. But not this year. Second, the whole suspending my campaign fiasco was a public relations nightmare and demonstration of poor judgment and leadership. And third and most damaging, was the unfortunate timing of the words the fundamentals of the economy are strong on the eve of the Wall Street meltdown.

 

I know as I sit here that Obama will have a tough time delivering his agenda. And world events will shape him and his adminstration. Something big challenges most Presidents (Carter-Energy crisis and high interest rates, Reagan-Beirut Marine bombing and Challenger, Bush 1- Iraq invasion of Kuwait, Clinton-Trade Center Bombing, Embassy Bombings and Al Quaeda, Bush II-9/11 and Katrina). Biden only spoke the truth. Whether it be man-made or natural world events effect the president and the presidency.

 

Obama enters the Oval Office at a time of recession, deficit and war. Realistically, his options are limited and his promises were not. He simply can't deliver everything he promised. It will be interesting to see what he targets first. Energy? Tax Cut? Education? Health Care? Troops?

 

But socialism, please. It would take years to move the country in that direction. And realistically, yesterday's national election notwithstanding, we are still a conservatively-rooted country. If you don't believe that then explain to me how a same-sex marriage amendment was defeated in California of all places yesterday.

[FogBat]

:worthy: OBAMA :worthy:

 

LONG LIVE THE KING!!!

If you're dead serious about this, then George Washington has to be rolling in his grave - given the fact that there were people who wanted to make him king after he was elected the 1st POTUS and he steadfastly refused.

[FogBat]

I've worked for gov't programs that "help the low income help themselves" and I've seen it time and again, many of them do just enough to "qualify" for the 'free' stuff... They show up for their required hours or they turn in just enough job applications to keep getting their welfare checks and food stamps (access card). I've taught some of these "classes" they have to attend, 98% of the people in them that I've seen are there because that's the only way they will get "credit" for the program and still get 'free' money. Granted, the 2% that gets something out of it and get a job and get off the system is a great thing... but honestly that 2% is usually the people that are fell on hard times and are embarassed to get a gov't handout so they bust their butt to get out of it.

The welfare programs were not set up to be a way of life, there are plenty of opportunites to use the gov't to get ahead the way they were intended. Short term help.

 

I've had several clients actually get a job and then quit when they were asked to do their job (not the 2% mentioned above I mean). There are more than enough programs out now and most of them are just throwing money away because of the attitude of the clients.

Wow. I'm almost speechless.

 

It's one thing to hear about this kind of thing going on, but it's quite another to get it straight from the horse's mouth about the perpetual abuse of a system that was not originally designed for people to take advantage of the "good graces" of their fellow taxpaying citizens.

[FogBat]

Funny thing is, I am a dyed in the wool conservative on many issues.. I voted the Republicans, my life long party, out of office yesterday. I'm thrilled that Obama won, but in all honesty, could have lived quite happily with John McCain. I just strongly believe that the socialism club that is being used is a red herring.

 

John McCain made three major gaffs, IMO, that cost him the election. First, he chose a nobody to be VP. I have nothing against SP the person, but I have everything against her qualifications to be VP this year. If she wants to spend the next four years learning the issues, I just might vote for her. But not this year. Second, the whole suspending my campaign fiasco was a public relations nightmare and demonstration of poor judgment and leadership. And third and most damaging, was the unfortunate timing of the words the fundamentals of the economy are strong on the eve of the Wall Street meltdown.

 

I know as I sit here that Obama will have a tough time delivering his agenda. And world events will shape him and his adminstration. Something big challenges most Presidents (Carter-Energy crisis and high interest rates, Reagan-Beirut Marine bombing and Challenger, Bush 1- Iraq invasion of Kuwait, Clinton-Trade Center Bombing, Embassy Bombings and Al Quaeda, Bush II-9/11 and Katrina). 1. Biden only spoke the truth. Whether it be man-made or natural world events effect the president and the presidency.

 

Obama inherits the Oval Office at a time of recession, deficit and war. Realistically, his options are limited and his promises were not. He simply can't deliver everything he promised. It will be interesting to see what he targets first. Energy? Tax Cut? Education? Health Care? Troops?

 

But socialism, please. It would take years to move the country in that direction. And realistically, yesterday's national election notwithstanding, we are still a conservatively-rooted country. 2. If you don't believe that then explain to me how a same-sex marriage amendment was defeated in California of all places yesterday.

1. While I've never been a fan of Joe Biden on some of his policies (no need to ask me what they are), his supposed experience on foreign policy and some of the comments he made about his boss being tested in the first few months of his upcoming presidency should have been an eye-opener to those who live in an "I'm ok, you're ok" dreamworld.

 

2. Proposition 8 passed by a pretty narrow margin. From what I was listening to on Christian talk radio, there was plenty of prayer going on across the country about this measure.

 

As for the questioning about the creeping effects of socialism, I could write an entire book about the headway that socialism has made into this country. One could look at the fact that Bernie Sanders is now sitting in the US Senate. Socialism happened overnight in the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, etc. On the other hand, in countries that supposedly allow free elections, it's like raising a child up until it hits adulthood and lives out its entire life. Most Western European countries are a testimony to this.

[Rico7]

:worthy: OBAMA :worthy:

 

LONG LIVE THE KING!!!

 

 

Worst post ever

[X. Benedict]

IIRC, the name "Abraham Lincoln" in the South could be synonymous with Benedict Arnold in the War for Independence.

 

Not surprising. Probably the same people believe the pernicious idea that there once was a noble form of slavery.

[wjag]

The day after the election the stock market has dropped 400+ points with 30 minutes to go... Back to reality... SSDD...

[FogBat]

Not surprising. Probably the same people believe the pernicious idea that there once was a noble form of slavery.

I normally respect your posts, but I disagree with you on this one, X. Some people may still have that attitude, but a majority of Southerners today would not advocate Chattel slavery - no matter how long their families have lived in the South. It is the fact that Lincoln broke their will and resolve to survive as a sovereign nation that still embitters many of them to this day.

 

I would even go so far as to say that many of them still have this sick and resentful feeling that the North is still seeking to push its "values" and mores upon them 143 years after the end of the war.