[OT] Political Discussion

[darksabre]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

[Taro T]

You've been fed a heaping plate of BS by the conservative spin artists.

Perhaps. On the $200k part, I was actually basing that off Obama supporters claiming the $200k tax increase threshold was for individuals, not families. Biden's quote of $150k was accurate.

 

When all is said and done, I will be shocked if taxes don't go up for far more than has been advertised. It is a given that spending is going up.

[FogBat]

Which is far less than the millions and millions of men, women and Children who have been murdered over the course of history in the name of Religion.

 

1. Not you, not any government or any fairy tale designed to control the masses have a right to dictate to any woman what they must do with their bodies. Not now, not millions of years ago when the Big Bang created the Universe.

 

Now back to those who live in reality.

 

Great Job America. When can not get the past eight years back. It is upsetting that the Bush administration will never be held accountable for the criminal acts of the past eight years. We can all only hope that the damage done my this Administration, controlled by right wing religious nut jobs, is not irreversible. That this Nation can again take steps forward into the a bright future instead of falling back into the dark ages. There is a lot of work to be done. We finally have a true Leader who can and will bring this country together to get what needs to be done accomplished.

 

2. For those right wing religious nuts that will continue to try divide this country I suggest you join the rest of us in heading towards the future or be prepared to fade away forgotten in the past.

 

Again, Great Job America. 3. We have our country back.

1. I've heard it said that if there was no God, there would be no atheists. So true. Go watch this and prepare to be enlightened. Personally, DeLuca, I'd hate for you to see what you call a "fairy tale" become reality on Judgment Day and then come to find out, when it is too late, that "Hey, those people whom I called 'religious nut jobs' were right all along".

 

2. Dietrich Bonhoeffer would not have followed your advice. Granted, he was a bit unorthodox in his views on Scripture, but he is a brilliant example who did not follow the marching orders that you advocate. Having said that, if persecution comes to America like the first three centuries since Christ was resurrected, I will die for the faith. Rest assured, the blood of those whom you call "religious nut jobs" will be on the hands of the tyrants. Oh, and one last thing in this paragraph: it has been said that the blood of the martyrs has been the seed of the church. IOW, the church grows in times of persecution and history has proven this time and time again. :thumbsup:

 

3. You should have moved over here when you had your chance. Then you wouldn't have to complain about being poor nor broke nor not being taken care of by your government. Hey, you could have actually had a winning national hockey team several times over!

 

In all seriousness and for the sake of avoiding pejorative terms, you are probably one of the most miserable people I've encountered. Nothing will ever make you truly happy and content. For example, while you might agree with his policies, there is just no possible way that Obama is going do everything 100% to your satisfaction. Just watching how you bash everyone else and everything that goes on in the world in general is proof positive of this.

[SwampD]

Perhaps. On the $200k part, I was actually basing that off Obama supporters claiming the $200k tax increase threshold was for individuals, not families. Biden's quote of $150k was accurate.

 

When all is said and done, I will be shocked if taxes don't go up for far more than has been advertised. It is a given that spending is going up.

Hey, did you hear about the new Republican credit card? Charge as much as you want and let the next guy pay it off. (Then give it to your son so that he can do the same thing.)

 

If the American public was stupid enough to vote for the guys that ran up this unbelievable debt. Then the American public should have to pay for it.

 

 

Crosschecking, If you vote Republican based on a single issue like abortion, that's fine. I can respect that, even if I disagree with it. But your avatar shows me that you are just filled with hate. I think you need to read that Good Book of yours a little harder.

[Stoner]

Perhaps. On the $200k part, I was actually basing that off Obama supporters claiming the $200k tax increase threshold was for individuals, not families. Biden's quote of $150k was accurate.

 

When all is said and done, I will be shocked if taxes don't go up for far more than has been advertised. It is a given that spending is going up.

 

Spending always goes up. The 150k quote was just a brain fart I think.

 

Obama will govern from pretty much the center. He has to to get re-elected. The country is still pretty divided -- it's not like he received a huge mandate last night. His coat-tails were pretty modest.

 

Anyway... there were some exhilirating moments last night. McCain's speeches was outstanding. If he had been half that good during the campaign, he might have won. When the crowd booed (McCain was cheered in Chicago), McCain was clearly annoyed. He waved them off. I wish he would have told them to shut up. If he had taken himself above the hateful Republican throngs, strongly repudiated Bush, run basically as an independent, a true maverick, he might have won.

 

When the crowd in Chicago started chanting "USA, USA" it gave me chills. For once, we hear this chant at a moment we should be proud, not when we're visiting "shock and awe" on some Third World Nation or when there's some show of military force at a football game. You can throw out every chant of USA in between Lake Placid and last night, and I'll be happy.

 

Obama's speech was electrifying. The end, wow. What a moment.

[Stoner]

Oh yeah, how cool was it when people spontaneously gathered at the White House? Just a little reminder. There are places in the world where those gates would have come down and the old president hauled away somewhere (not that shrub wouldn't have deserved it). What a great country!

[SarasotaSabre]

"Fundamentals"? I guess I just don't agree that an economy where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer while the middle class disappears is "fundamental" to any success economy.

 

oh, there we go with the class warfare again....LET IT GO. It really sounds like you don't believe in capitalism at all - or do you want everyone to earn the same amount? There is another term for that.....

 

Maybe the "poor" can do something about it, like educate themselves and better their station in life.

[SwampD]

Oh yeah, how cool was it when people spontaneously gathered at the White House? Just a little reminder. There are places in the world where those gates would have come down and the old president hauled away somewhere (not that shrub wouldn't have deserved it). What a great country!

Great posts. It's been a while since I've been proud to be an American. Grateful? Yes. But not proud.

[SarasotaSabre]

Which is far less than the millions and millions of men, women and Children who have been murdered over the course of history in the name of Religion.

 

Not you, not any government or any fairy tale designed to control the masses have a right to dictate to any woman what they must do with their bodies. Not now, not millions of years ago when the Big Bang created the Universe.

 

Now back to those who live in reality.

 

Great Job America. When can not get the past eight years back. It is upsetting that the Bush administration will never be held accountable for the criminal acts of the past eight years. We can all only hope that the damage done my this Administration, controlled by right wing religious nut jobs, is not irreversible. That this Nation can again take steps forward into the a bright future instead of falling back into the dark ages. There is a lot of work to be done. We finally have a true Leader who can and will bring this country together to get what needs to be done accomplished. For those right wing religious nuts that will continue to try divide this country I suggest you join the rest of us in heading towards the future or be prepared to fade away forgotten in the past.

 

Again, Great Job America. We have our country back.

 

Somehow I think you term anyone who espouses religion at all as a "religious nut". You are truly myopic and hateful. I am a person of faith but I keep my beliefs to myself.....and I am the opposite of a "religious nut"

 

If you want to engage in mudslinging and name-calling instead of rationally debating issues, fine.....but be prepared to be called out as an "left wing atheistic nut".......

[deluca67]

What's up with the bolded text??

Hmm.. We'll never know what George Bush's presidency would have been like had 9/11 not occurred. It changed the man and his views. I for one can't wait for him to be gone...

 

I voted for Obama... I'm glad he won. I've listened as close as anyone to all the issues. And I can tell you something I heard last night that I haven't heard in the last 20 months. That was doubt. Did you catch him say, I'm paraphrasing, I might not get it done in ONE TERM? That is the first time I have heard him say that. Maybe last night he realized or admitted that as much as you can espouse change, enacting it is far different. We are not an monarchy. He needs to govern with his party. And from what I can tell, that will be damn difficult.

 

I thought Bill Bennett was a magnificent Republican last night. He was eloquent in his arguments, generous with his praise, and truly hopeful that Obama will be an effective leader.

 

When the lobbyist attack his health care plan and the democrats refuse to go along with his tax cuts and some international crisis blows up like Russia re-annexing a previous satellite, we'll see how he handles it.

 

The Obama-Pelosi battles are going to be epic...

Thanks. Corrected the typo. Was in a hurry trying to get the post in before I had to take the wife to work.

 

What you perceive as doubt I see as being honest and realistic. Which is a refreshing change in it's self. The damage done over the past eight years is vast. There is no magic pill to cure all. It will be a long and difficult fight for all of us to get this Country turned around and heading into the right direction.

 

We will see indeed how he handles the duties of being President. Time will tell and history will be his judge. I'm sure there will be issues he will have to battle Pelosi on as well as other members of Congress. It is the job of Congress to keep the President in check. The last thing his Country needs is a rubber stamp Congress.

 

It is interesting to see the reaction of those around the world. It appears the message is spreading beyond our shores that a new day is upon us. Hopefully this new optimism will allow fences to be mended and relations to be repaired. Maybe then the United States of America can take it's place as a Leader in the World not a Leader of the World.

[deluca67]

oh, there we go with the class warfare again....LET IT GO. It really sounds like you don't believe in capitalism at all - or do you want everyone to earn the same amount? There is another term for that.....

 

Maybe the "poor" can do something about it, like educate themselves and better their station in life.

You really have no idea what actually goes on in this Country. Hopefully you will never have an event in your life were you find everything turned upside down and you are in need of help. Enjoy what you have, just remember it may be gone tomorrow.

[shrader]

Anyway... there were some exhilirating moments last night. McCain's speeches was outstanding. If he had been half that good during the campaign, he might have won. When the crowd booed (McCain was cheered in Chicago), McCain was clearly annoyed. He waved them off. I wish he would have told them to shut up. If he had taken himself above the hateful Republican throngs, strongly repudiated Bush, run basically as an independent, a true maverick, he might have won.

 

I was with a group of people who were trying to say that this fact showed the real difference between the two groups, which I think is complete BS. That gathering in Chicago was thrilled. It didn't matter what he said, they were going to cheer every word. It's no different than any championship ceremony (other than in Philly). The winning fans cheer when the losing team is acknowledged.

 

 

But anyway, I have to mention one thing about this coverage so far that really annoys me. Yes, I realize how major a moment this is, but all the african american president comments are driving me crazy. I'm a big fan of acknowledging your history and your origins, but they're completely ignoring half of who Obama is. He may be the 1st black president, but he's also the 44th white president. All this coverage suggests that he won because he is black. That completely undermines the real reasons here. He won because he was the best candidate. Yes, it's a history moment, but it is far more than just that.

 

Now I just hope no one calls me a racist.

[deluca67]

1. I've heard it said that if there was no God, there would be no atheists. So true. Go watch this and prepare to be enlightened. Personally, DeLuca, I'd hate for you to see what you call a "fairy tale" become reality on Judgment Day and then come to find out, when it is too late, that "Hey, those people whom I called 'religious nut jobs' were right all along".

 

2. Dietrich Bonhoeffer would not have followed your advice. Granted, he was a bit unorthodox in his views on Scripture, but he is a brilliant example who did not follow the marching orders that you advocate. Having said that, if persecution comes to America like the first three centuries since Christ was resurrected, I will die for the faith. Rest assured, the blood of those whom you call "religious nut jobs" will be on the hands of the tyrants. Oh, and one last thing in this paragraph: it has been said that the blood of the martyrs has been the seed of the church. IOW, the church grows in times of persecution and history has proven this time and time again. :thumbsup:

 

3. You should have moved over here when you had your chance. Then you wouldn't have to complain about being poor nor broke nor not being taken care of by your government. Hey, you could have actually had a winning national hockey team several times over!

 

In all seriousness and for the sake of avoiding pejorative terms, you are probably one of the most miserable people I've encountered. Nothing will ever make you truly happy and content. For example, while you might agree with his policies, there is just no possible way that Obama is going do everything 100% to your satisfaction. Just watching how you bash everyone else and everything that goes on in the world in general is proof positive of this.

 

He already has. The strides this Country took yesterday are steps that can not be taken back. There are people today who now know their voices can be heard and their votes do count.

 

As for the rest of the religious psycho babble? I prefer to keep all future conversations to real world issues like where does this Country go from here and how does this County's image world wide get repaired.

[inkman]

shrub

:lol:

[Hawerchuk]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

No, thats on a different site, "The Stadium Wall" at Two Bills Drive :lol:

[inkman]

Maybe the "poor" can do something about it, like educate themselves and better their station in life.

While I advocate people improving their quality of life, have you been in the hood lately? The Rochester city schol district is a perfect case study. Drugs, gangs, absentee parenting, peer pressure to not succeed in the classroom. Some kids do escape and make a better life for themselves but the system is in motion and it's extremely difficult for these kids to even have a chance. They are worried about getting shot, stabbed, robbed or beat. Achieving good grades and going to college is the last thing on many of their minds.

 

We need to organize and find solutions. A 40% graduation rate is laughable. Just telling them to study harder and get a good job isn't going to cut it. We need to provide actual paths to success. Perhaps Obama can assist in this process. I feel he will be more aware of these issues than McCain.

[FogBat]

Hey, did you hear about the new Republican credit card? Charge as much as you want and let the next guy pay it off. (Then give it to your son so that he can do the same thing.)

 

If the American public was stupid enough to vote for the guys that ran up this unbelievable debt. Then the American public should have to pay for it.

Crosschecking, If you vote Republican based on a single issue like abortion, that's fine. I can respect that, even if I disagree with it. But your avatar shows me that you are just filled with hate. I think you need to read that Good Book of yours a little harder.

Actually, I voted on more than one issue. Abortion was just one of them. As I stated earlier, for the record, I planned to vote for Chuck Baldwin and I did. I didn't see a dime's bit of difference between McCain and Obama. (Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty website used the McBama pejorative, which I thought was a bit unnecessary). Issues like sound money and the preservation of the Constitution under the strict constructionist view were motivating factors for me, etc.

 

As for the avatar, it's down. It's unfortunate that it gets confused with certain terms I'd rather not bring up here.

[FogBat]

While I advocate people improving their quality of life, have you been in the hood lately? The Rochester city schol district is a perfect case study. Drugs, gangs, absentee parenting, peer pressure to not succeed in the classroom. Some kids do escape and make a better life for themselves but the system is in motion and it's extremely difficult for these kids to even have a chance. They are worried about getting shot, stabbed, robbed or beat. Achieving good grades and going to college is the last thing on many of their minds.

 

We need to organize and find solutions. A 40% graduation rate is laughable. Just telling them to study harder and get a good job isn't going to cut it. We need to provide actual paths to success. Perhaps Obama can assist in this process. I feel he will be more aware of these issues than McCain.

While that post was filled with good intentions, I think the first step would be to get rid of a bitter and ceaseless legacy that stems back from the days of Lyndon Johnson: the War on Poverty/Great Society program. That program alone did the reverse of what it was supposed to accomplish. It broke down the family unit and promoted more and more able-bodied people to live at the expense of their fellow taxpayers with little or no incentive to work. The utopian ideal became dystopian in reality.

 

BTW, inky. Can you provide me a link about the success rate of charter schools out there? I know they're coming up all over the country, especially in rough towns like DC.

[inkman]

As for the avatar, it's down. It's unfortunate that it gets confused with certain terms I'd rather not bring up here.

Perception is reality... :thumbsup:

[SDS]

While I advocate people improving their quality of life, have you been in the hood lately? The Rochester city schol district is a perfect case study. Drugs, gangs, absentee parenting, peer pressure to not succeed in the classroom. Some kids do escape and make a better life for themselves but the system is in motion and it's extremely difficult for these kids to even have a chance. They are worried about getting shot, stabbed, robbed or beat. Achieving good grades and going to college is the last thing on many of their minds.

 

We need to organize and find solutions. A 40% graduation rate is laughable. Just telling them to study harder and get a good job isn't going to cut it. We need to provide actual paths to success. Perhaps Obama can assist in this process. I feel he will be more aware of these issues than McCain.

 

You absolutely cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. There is no governmental solution that can overcome that obstacle.

[FogBat]

Somehow I think you term anyone who espouses religion at all as a "religious nut". You are truly myopic and hateful. I am a person of faith but I keep my beliefs to myself.....and I am the opposite of a "religious nut"

 

If you want to engage in mudslinging and name-calling instead of rationally debating issues, fine.....but be prepared to be called out as an "left wing atheistic nut".......

THANK YOU!!!

 

Yeah, I know I go a bit over the top sometimes. I'm not the only one.

 

However, we have to know who we're dealing with, and sometimes the ones who scream that we're irrational are sometimes the most irrational of all.

[deluca67]

You absolutely cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. There is no governmental solution that can overcome that obstacle.

You'll never know who refuses until you at least offer to help. Contrary to what some may say not all those who are impoverished are there because they are lazy or refuse to try. Poverty is a cycle that is extremely difficult to break.

[FogBat]

You absolutely cannot help people who refuse to help themselves. There is no governmental solution that can overcome that obstacle.

:thumbsup:

[deluca67]

While I advocate people improving their quality of life, have you been in the hood lately? The Rochester city schol district is a perfect case study. Drugs, gangs, absentee parenting, peer pressure to not succeed in the classroom. Some kids do escape and make a better life for themselves but the system is in motion and it's extremely difficult for these kids to even have a chance. They are worried about getting shot, stabbed, robbed or beat. Achieving good grades and going to college is the last thing on many of their minds.

 

We need to organize and find solutions. A 40% graduation rate is laughable. Just telling them to study harder and get a good job isn't going to cut it. We need to provide actual paths to success. Perhaps Obama can assist in this process. I feel he will be more aware of these issues than McCain.

In sports you hear a lot about the "culture of the locker room" or the "culture of the franchise". The "culture" in public schools needs to be changed. School needs to be a place were every child can feel safe and have a chance to flourish. Every child in the inner city needs to have the same access to all the tools and programs available to those in the more affluent suburban schools. If we have billions to throw away in Iraq and billions to save Wall Street there should be money available to save our schools.

[X. Benedict]

While that post was filled with good intentions, I think the first step would be to get rid of a bitter and ceaseless legacy that stems back from the days of Lyndon Johnson: the War on Poverty/Great Society program. That program alone did the reverse of what it was supposed to accomplish. It broke down the family unit and promoted more and more able-bodied people to live at the expense of their fellow taxpayers with little or no incentive to work. The utopian ideal became dystopian in reality.

 

I see this said so often that I find it puzzling...the Great Society legislation gave us:

 

Medicare, Medicaid, Federal Student Loans for College, the Voting rights act (over 90% of African-Americans in the South were not registered to vote before it), Medical student loans, NEA,

NEH, Food Stamps....

 

Now all these cost money....but try to find 10 Blacks that can't vote, 10 College students that received no federal aid, 10 people over 65 (the greatest Generation) that don't benefit from Medicare or Medicaid, and 10 people that have never been to a doctor and then we can talk about how the Great Society is killing us. :thumbsup: