Connolly back on ice

[ROC Sabres]

Severity. The world isn't built with a cookie-cutter, ROC.

It should be. I know it's not and I do understand it's his second concussion and they get worse every time you get them. The blame is more on the medical team that misdiagnosed him as KnightRider corrected me on before.

[nfreeman]

The line in bold from the article says it all...

 

Tim Connolly, who has yet to play for the Buffalo Sabres this season because of two fractured vertebrae in his back, returned to the ice this morning for the first time in 11 days. He will not, however, play in tonight's game against Boston in HSBC Arena, and there is no timetable for his official comeback.

 

Lets recap...

 

1.Connolly sits out most of the preseason games(maybe all of them).

 

2.It is reported that the entire week before the opener that Connolly is skating hard and ready to go.

 

3.At the last minute he does not dress for the opener.

 

4.Now it is reported that he has a cracked vertebrae.

 

5.Lindy says he will be out a week.

 

6.A week comes and goes without any news.

 

7.Now there is no timetable.

 

I really think the Sabres need Connolly if they plan on going anywhere this year, but what a joke he has become.

 

I would just add to the recap that he actually has TWO fractured vertebrae. Lovely.

 

I think I will disagree though that we need him if we are going to go anywhere this year. Having him back would be great but I don't think necessary. Unlike last year, the guys in the locker room aren't looking around for guys who aren't there. They're determined to win with the group they have.

[tom webster]

25%? Where does this come from? Max and Timmy together are $7MM.

 

I included Tallinder because it is apparent that he is now their sixth defensemen and Gaustad since he is hurt adding up to $11.6 million out of 52.4 million actually spent thus equalling 22.2 %. Without Gaustad you are looking at $9.9 million spent on three players when you can't convince me that they wouldn't be miles better replacing Max with any Rochester forward (850K max), replacing Hank with Butler (850K) and taking the other $8.2 million and spending half on another center and banking the other half till trade deadline time.

[Knightrider]

I included Tallinder because it is apparent that he is now their sixth defensemen and Gaustad since he is hurt adding up to $11.6 million out of 52.4 million actually spent thus equalling 22.2 %. Without Gaustad you are looking at $9.9 million spent on three players when you can't convince me that they wouldn't be miles better replacing Max with any Rochester Portland forward (850K max), replacing Hank with Butler (850K) and taking the other $8.2 million and spending half on another center and banking the other half till trade deadline time.

 

fixed :lol:

[tom webster]

fixed :lol:

 

Thanks. Old habits, you know...

[james duncan]

Thanks. Old habits, you know...

Webster, I need to tell you and Knight how much I appreciate having your avatars, not to mention your comments of course, back to back. Outstanding.

As for Connolly and his status, I'm past the frustration. Kinda like debating why Peters is still on the roster. There are certain mysteries of life that are just that. Save yourself the aggravation. I just accept them and move on.

[nobody]

Tim Connolly - concussion - Time to recover: 1 year

Trent Edwards - concussion - Time to recover: 1.5 weeks

 

what's not to jeer?

 

 

Edwards didn't look too good in cold games last year - I don't know how well he would do replacing Connolly.

[nfreeman]

I included Tallinder because it is apparent that he is now their sixth defensemen and Gaustad since he is hurt adding up to $11.6 million out of 52.4 million actually spent thus equalling 22.2 %. Without Gaustad you are looking at $9.9 million spent on three players when you can't convince me that they wouldn't be miles better replacing Max with any Rochester forward (850K max), replacing Hank with Butler (850K) and taking the other $8.2 million and spending half on another center and banking the other half till trade deadline time.

 

They can only "take the other $8.2 million" and use it on new players if they get someone to take Max, Timmy and Tallinder off of their hands without having to take any salary back. This is not going to happen with Connolly and is highly unlikely to happen with Max. (I do think someone would take Tallinder in exchange for a 3rd round pick in a second though). Also, I think Max is playing decently right now, and he is somewhat of a playmaker, and without Connolly they need playmakers.

 

I suppose, if they unloaded Max and Talllinder, and replaced Tallinder with Weber (or Butler) they could take the $5.6 million they would net and get a pretty good player -- but are there any good ones out there? Would Sundin come here for New Year's through the end of the year for $6 million?

[deluca67]

They can only "take the other $8.2 million" and use it on new players if they get someone to take Max, Timmy and Tallinder off of their hands without having to take any salary back. This is not going to happen with Connolly and is highly unlikely to happen with Max. (I do think someone would take Tallinder in exchange for a 3rd round pick in a second though). Also, I think Max is playing decently right now, and he is somewhat of a playmaker, and without Connolly they need playmakers.

 

I suppose, if they unloaded Max and Talllinder, and replaced Tallinder with Weber (or Butler) they could take the $5.6 million they would net and get a pretty good player -- but are there any good ones out there? Would Sundin come here for New Year's through the end of the year for $6 million?

Max "playing decently right now" will hopefully open up some team to the idea of trading for him. Max is a play maker, the problem is cutting down the bad plays and turnovers. It's early and he has picked up some assists. At over three million he needs to be a lot more and just doesn't seem to be capable.

 

The key to any player moves will probably be MacArthur and Stafford. MacArthur is starting to make a case to stick in the starting lineup. Stafford's goals last night will hopefully be a spring board game for him. I still see Stafford as a talent that other teams will try to have included in any trade that the Sabres receive a player in return.

 

As far as Connolly? As much as it pains me it I wouldn't be surprising if the Sabres have resigned themselves to the fact that the Connolly's salary is not retrievable and they are just holding out to see if they can get anything back on a bad investment. The money is already spent and no other club would be willing to spend a penny on Connolly.

[R_Dudley]

First, like a couple of people have said, comparing the Edwards injury to Connolly's is ridculous and I'm most of us just dismiss posts like that.

 

Second, I think most of us know that as frustrated as we are, the organization is doubly frustrated. Unless you know Connolly perosnally, nobody can really know how frustrated he is.

Like someone else said, there is nothing they can do at this point. Whether you believe their numbers or not is irrelevant. Tom Golisano and his partners have put the limit on payroll spending at aroung $50 million and since the contract was never able to be insured, we are stuck with it till year's end. I said I voted for IR, but not in expectation that they would replace his salary but rather that they would move other salary to replace him knowing that he is not coming back.

 

However, as long as the budget is in the bottom third of the league, there is no room for speculative contracts. Right now Buffalo is in the bottom of third of the league in payroll and getting nothing or almost nothing from almost 25% of it.

I agree their stated long term business model cannot afford those kind of mistakes.

 

There in lies the problem. How does Tim's brittleness affect the room? How does it affect Lindy? I am not booing the individual but rather the situation that management put them into. Everybody with half a brain on this board came to the conclusion that counting on Connolly this year was insane. Yet there managemnet was, slotting him to be the #2 center.

 

Luckily the Sabres have gotten by with a derth of actual centers on the team but if this teams record was reversed, there would be a giant #%^$#! storm on this board.

 

Based on Lindy's comments about TC not playing until he is 100% ready to play full time not game to game already tells me he is tired of working around this unknown and is trying to minimize the effect it has on his need to juggle line ups'.

Max "playing decently right now" will hopefully open up some team to the idea of trading for him. Max is a play maker, the problem is cutting down the bad plays and turnovers. It's early and he has picked up some assists. At over three million he needs to be a lot more and just doesn't seem to be capable.

 

The key to any player moves will probably be MacArthur and Stafford. MacArthur is starting to make a case to stick in the starting lineup. Stafford's goals last night will hopefully be a spring board game for him. I still see Stafford as a talent that other teams will try to have included in any trade that the Sabres receive a player in return.

 

As far as Connolly? As much as it pains me it I wouldn't be surprising if the Sabres have resigned themselves to the fact that the Connolly's salary is not retrievable and they are just holding out to see if they can get anything back on a bad investment. The money is already spent and no other club would be willing to spend a penny on Connolly.

 

That really makes the most sense to me with how they can handle this situation.

[nfreeman]

Max "playing decently right now" will hopefully open up some team to the idea of trading for him. Max is a play maker, the problem is cutting down the bad plays and turnovers. It's early and he has picked up some assists. At over three million he needs to be a lot more and just doesn't seem to be capable.

 

The key to any player moves will probably be MacArthur and Stafford. MacArthur is starting to make a case to stick in the starting lineup. Stafford's goals last night will hopefully be a spring board game for him. I still see Stafford as a talent that other teams will try to have included in any trade that the Sabres receive a player in return.

 

As far as Connolly? As much as it pains me it I wouldn't be surprising if the Sabres have resigned themselves to the fact that the Connolly's salary is not retrievable and they are just holding out to see if they can get anything back on a bad investment. The money is already spent and no other club would be willing to spend a penny on Connolly.

I largely agree, although I think Max would probably be more productive on a line with a bit more skill. Kotalik is off to a good start but isn't much of a passer or a give-and-go kind of guy, and Mair is a good role player but also not one that can help bring Max's production up.

 

Stafford is indeed showing signs of life. I'd only trade him in a deal in which we got a real top-6 forward back.

 

Completely agree on Connolly.

 

I agree their stated long term business model cannot afford those kind of mistakes.

 

Based on Lindy's comments about TC not playing until he is 100% ready to play full time not game to game already tells me he is tired of working around this unknown and is trying to minimize the effect it has on his need to juggle line ups'.

I agree about Lindy's approach to TC, but I'll disagree a little on the contract point. Every contract is a calculated risk. What if Vanek blows out his knee this year? Certainly after the year Miller had last year, giving him a long-term deal was a risk. The Sabres obtained medical advice from presumably top-quality doctors on Connolly and thought they were getting a #1 center for 3 years at a reduced cost due to the concussion bogeyman. (I don't believe for a minute the rumors about the contract being issued because of Quinn's relationship with Connolly's family.) It turned out the advice they got was wrong, but more so on the treatment than on the initial diagnosis -- his concussion was almost 2.5 years ago and there hasn't been another one since then. So maybe they were right that there wasn't an increased risk of more concussions, and maybe they were just unlucky that the rest of his body couldn't hold up (esp. since he played almost every game for 4 full years earlier in his career).

 

It's easy to look back in hindsight and say they shouldn't have given him $9 million, but every team has contracts that they'd like to re-do. The Ducks gave Mathieu Schneider almost $6MM per year. And it's not like the Sabres gave Connolly $20 million. Bottom line is the money is gone and we didn't get to see what a potentially brilliant player could do. It's a bummer all the way around, but that's life sometimes.

[shrader]

I agree about Lindy's approach to TC, but I'll disagree a little on the contract point. Every contract is a calculated risk. What if Vanek blows out his knee this year? Certainly after the year Miller had last year, giving him a long-term deal was a risk. The Sabres obtained medical advice from presumably top-quality doctors on Connolly and thought they were getting a #1 center for 3 years at a reduced cost due to the concussion bogeyman. (I don't believe for a minute the rumors about the contract being issued because of Quinn's relationship with Connolly's family.) It turned out the advice they got was wrong, but more so on the treatment than on the initial diagnosis -- his concussion was almost 2.5 years ago and there hasn't been another one since then. So maybe they were right that there wasn't an increased risk of more concussions, and maybe they were just unlucky that the rest of his body couldn't hold up (esp. since he played almost every game for 4 full years earlier in his career).

 

It's easy to look back in hindsight and say they shouldn't have given him $9 million, but every team has contracts that they'd like to re-do. The Ducks gave Mathieu Schneider almost $6MM per year. And it's not like the Sabres gave Connolly $20 million. Bottom line is the money is gone and we didn't get to see what a potentially brilliant player could do. It's a bummer all the way around, but that's life sometimes.

 

There's one major difference though. Vanek's deal is insured.

 

The whole going back and wishing you never handed out a contract is something that is going to take over this league soon enough. All these longterm deals are going to come back and bite GMs in the ass. It's that great hole in the system where GMs are handing out deals that they probably won't even be around with that team anymore when the deal expires. It really makes you appreciate having a guy like Regier around for so long. He's more likely to realize how harmful some of these long contracts can be when given to the wrong player (I won't throw Connolly under that bus since it was only a 3 year deal).

[bottlecap]

For all the Gaborik coveters, be careful what you wish for...Here's an article that has

a theme that's all-too-familiar: the often-injured player who wants money:

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/320...yKUnciaec8O7EyU

[tom webster]

There's one major difference though. Vanek's deal is insured.The whole going back and wishing you never handed out a contract is something that is going to take over this league soon enough. All these longterm deals are going to come back and bite GMs in the ass. It's that great hole in the system where GMs are handing out deals that they probably won't even be around with that team anymore when the deal expires. It really makes you appreciate having a guy like Regier around for so long. He's more likely to realize how harmful some of these long contracts can be when given to the wrong player (I won't throw Connolly under that bus since it was only a 3 year deal).

 

 

And this is a huge point. Connolly's contract is not insured because for every doctor that said that Connolly would be fine, there were doctors that disagreed thus the lack of insurance.

Free might not believe that Quinn's relationship had anything to do with the decision to sign Connolly, but a couple of points that make you wonder;

1) TG makes no bones about the fact that he is a hard sell and makes Quinn and Reiger convince him to make every deal.

2) On every other deal it appears that he errs on the side of caution

3) Quinn mocked Pat Lafontaine for going from doctor to doctor till he found the answer he was looking for.

[R_Dudley]

There's one major difference though. Vanek's deal is insured.

The whole going back and wishing you never handed out a contract is something that is going to take over this league soon enough. All these longterm deals are going to come back and bite GMs in the ass. It's that great hole in the system where GMs are handing out deals that they probably won't even be around with that team anymore when the deal expires. It really makes you appreciate having a guy like Regier around for so long. He's more likely to realize how harmful some of these long contracts can be when given to the wrong player (I won't throw Connolly under that bus since it was only a 3 year deal).

 

 

And this is a huge point. Connolly's contract is not insured because for every doctor that said that Connolly would be fine, there were doctors that disagreed thus the lack of insurance.

Free might not believe that Quinn's relationship had anything to do with the decision to sign Connolly, but a couple of points that make you wonder;

1) TG makes no bones about the fact that he is a hard sell and makes Quinn and Reiger convince him to make every deal.

2) On every other deal it appears that he errs on the side of caution

3) Quinn mocked Pat Lafontaine for going from doctor to doctor till he found the answer he was looking for.

 

Didn't notice Nfree had responded to my original post but you two summed up what would have been my response very nicely.

[nfreeman]

And this is a huge point. Connolly's contract is not insured because for every doctor that said that Connolly would be fine, there were doctors that disagreed thus the lack of insurance.

Free might not believe that Quinn's relationship had anything to do with the decision to sign Connolly, but a couple of points that make you wonder;

1) TG makes no bones about the fact that he is a hard sell and makes Quinn and Reiger convince him to make every deal.

2) On every other deal it appears that he errs on the side of caution

3) Quinn mocked Pat Lafontaine for going from doctor to doctor till he found the answer he was looking for.

TW, I respect your opinions, but I haven't seen any kind of official confirmation that there were differing diagnoses on Connolly. On the insurance point, I'd guess that it's not insured because no insurer would go near a guy who had already missed an entire year with a concussion AND been knocked out for the playoffs with a 2nd concussion.

 

As for Golisano, from the outside it seems like he didn't get involved/skeptical in approving contracts until the numbers got really big. When the Sabres re-signed Connolly, in the summer of 2006, they also re-signed Kotalik, Max, Lydman, Tallinder, Soupy, etc. AND signed Spacek to a UFA deal. Those deals were all in the $10 million or less range. I don't remember seeing a word anywhere at that point about TG needing to be convinced on each contract. It wasn't until the following year, when Drury, Briere and Soupy's deals all were going to cost in the $25MM range, that TG tightened up.

 

Finally, I don't understand the point on Lafontaine.

[tom webster]

TW, I respect your opinions, but I haven't seen any kind of official confirmation that there were differing diagnoses on Connolly. On the insurance point, I'd guess that it's not insured because no insurer would go near a guy who had already missed an entire year with a concussion AND been knocked out for the playoffs with a 2nd concussion.

 

As for Golisano, from the outside it seems like he didn't get involved/skeptical in approving contracts until the numbers got really big. When the Sabres re-signed Connolly, in the summer of 2006, they also re-signed Kotalik, Max, Lydman, Tallinder, Soupy, etc. AND signed Spacek to a UFA deal. Those deals were all in the $10 million or less range. I don't remember seeing a word anywhere at that point about TG needing to be convinced on each contract. It wasn't until the following year, when Drury, Briere and Soupy's deals all were going to cost in the $25MM range, that TG tightened up.

 

Finally, I don't understand the point on Lafontaine.

 

 

When Lafontaine wanted to come back, Quinn likened him to a patient that goes to a multitude of doctors looking for the diagnosis he wanted to hear. With Connolly, they were willing to accept differing opinions, which you are right, I can't provide you with any information that you would deem sufficient.

[inkman]

The world isn't built with a cookie-cutter, ROC.

It should be.

Word. Cookies Rock!

[rickshaw]

I think the Tim Connolly experiment needs to end. Good player, when he plays. I think the Sabres should try to move TC out West and get whatever warm body they can get.

 

He's just too unreliable. It's like a girlfriend on the phone telling her guy she's gonna do nasty things to him later on when they get together, only to have her show up and hear she's got a headache.

[nucci]

I think the Tim Connolly experiment needs to end. Good player, when he plays. I think the Sabres should try to move TC out West and get whatever warm body they can get.

 

He's just too unreliable. It's like a girlfriend on the phone telling her guy she's gonna do nasty things to him later on when they get together, only to have her show up and hear she's got a headache.

And what do you think we could get for someone who rarely plays? Do you think someone is going to take him and pay him over $3M with his history. No team will go near him.

[That Aud Smell]

fwiw, and i half-can't-believe i'm relating this, but i perused bucky's chat while scarfing a sandwich today and saw that, based on the inside information he has (and i don't doubt that he has far more than any (or at least most) of us have), he's aware that there are higher-ups with the franchise that are completely fed up with connolly and would like to cut ties, if it were possible to do so.

 

there was a lot of stuff in bucky's chat replies that made it clear that there's a fair amount of scuttlebutt about connolly that he's not even at liberty to divulge. i've heard other people in the media and even on this board (*cough* T-Web *cough*) dance around this issue before. my inference from what i've heard (or not heard) is that connolly's perceived as a guy with no heart, rocks for brains and/or a penchant for heavy, destructive, untimely drinking.

 

like i said, fwiw.

[inkman]

is that connolly's perceived as a guy with no heart, rocks for brains and/or a penchant for heavy, destructive, untimely drinking.

NFN, but wasn't his info pretty much on the table during his last contract negotiation?

[That Aud Smell]

NFN, but wasn't his info pretty much on the table during his last contract negotiation?

not sure.

 

but, i suspect, what was also "on the table" was the vain hope that he might build on what he'd done from october 2005 through early may 2006.

[BetweenThePipes00]

You know, I had a semi-long post going and I just decided ... I'm just done with the guy. I don't wish bad things on him, if he should somehow get in the lineup and play well and help the team I will certainly be happy ... but i am done thinking about it.

I'm like Anthony Michael Hall's dad in Weird Science, my memories of him have been erased: Who is this Connolly character?

[That Aud Smell]

You know, I had a semi-long post going and I just decided ... I'm just done with the guy. I don't wish bad things on him, if he should somehow get in the lineup and play well and help the team I will certainly be happy ... but i am done thinking about it.

I'm like Anthony Michael Hall's dad in Weird Science, my memories of him have been erased: Who is this Connolly character?

wait, what were we threading about?