GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[Two or less]

What a difference a year makes.

 

Yeah wow. Paille is really becoming a beast on the ice. I know we've been saying this after each game, but i don't know why, maybe because i just expect him to return to human status for a game or something? Paille was great tonight once again and one of the plays that stands out for me is the back check he made in the 3rd period, where he just stole the puck away from the NYR as they tried to skate it up the ice. It's a play where you see it almost nightly on center ice and it's usually hooking or tripping, Paille, just went behind him, and took the puck. It was the best play i've seen all night from our Sabres. Overall though, on the PK and the effort he gave, was great.

 

3 games and we got the full 6 points. I know it's early but i love what i see. Since the lockout, this has been the best Sabres defense i can return. I don't think it's really the addition of Rivet, but also the addition of Teppo which helps. But also, i think Lindy has learned a hard lesson the 2 years where we went far in the playoffs and didn't win jack.... you can't compete in this league with a full-out offense.

 

I was also impressed with Adam Mair. Winning 7 of 8 face offs (2 for 2 vs. Drury) was big for us. But also his overall play was awesome i thought.

 

Great night for the Sabres. As the guy i quoted, what a difference a year makes. Can't wait for the game on Friday vs. Vancouver!

[Kristian]

Everyone knows I'm pretty quick on the gun when things go poorly, but I'd like to think that I'm also quick to give credit when credit is due.

 

Therefore, I'm helping myself to a niece dish of crow on certain players :

 

Thomas Vanek - Holy crap, who taught this guy to work for a living all of the sudden?

 

Lindy Ruff - Holy crap, did he teach Vanek to work for a living all of the sudden?

 

Maxim Afinogenov - Am I dreaming or did I actually see him make the safe and easy play several times?

 

The gameplan - Heck yeah, scrap all that pond hockey and concentrate on keeping pucks OUT of the net instead. Unlike other Sabres teams, this one doesn't have the lack of firepower that always killed us back in our "leave it to Dom" defensive days. This team can play D, has goaltending AND score goals as alike. If this holds up, look out.

[inkman]

I've been as critical of Tallinder as anyone lately, but he's much improved as well. He made a heck of a defensive play towards the end of the 3rd -- one of the Rangers was alone in front, gloved the puck down out of the air and was about to shoot, and Tallinder completely tied him up.

That play aside, I think Hank has had his fair share of gaffs this year. It seemed like he turned the puck over 4 times in one shift. I think his overall work along the boards leaves much to be desired.

[That Aud Smell]

sorry that i don't have time to sort through the thread to find opinions on this sub-topic: i love what kaleta brings, just love having a guy who can bring the physical, agitate and maybe chip in ~10 points over the course of a long season. love it.

 

but i saw that mara's take on their run-in was that kaleta's left his feet twice to hit him -- once last year when mara broke his face, and again last night. i saw the replay of the hit last night, and for sure kaleta was air-born.

 

so what do folks think: is kaleta dirty? defensibly dirty? does it matter to you?

[LabattBlue]

Game thoughts...

 

-Big win for the Sabres despite the injuries.

 

-If Vanek continues to skate hard(at both ends of the rink) like he did driving to the net on the two goals he scored, the sky is the limit. Great start for him!

 

-Paille another solid game...just practice those empty net shots! One play in particular stands out where Paille picked the pocket of a Rangers forward right at their blueline and in one motion turned and headed into their zone. :thumbsup:

 

-It appears that Lindy has the guys more focused on defense. I am not sure if this is going to lead to boring hockey, but as long as they have success doing it, I am all for it.

 

-Despite scoring 5 PP goals in two games, their doesn't seem to be a lot of confidence coming for the PP units. A lot of "hot potato" going on. Hopefully Connolly can help when he gets back in the lineup. :)

 

-I don't know if Lindy has told Kaleta to tone down his aggressiveness, but he seems to be a lot less noticeable. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him running around out of position trying to hit someone, but being a pest is his game.

 

-Where were the intangibles last night? :D

 

-I noticed Sekera on several occasions successfully skating the puck out of his own zone with a Ranger in pursuit. Hopefully he will continue to do this and become more of a weapon on the backline.

 

-Is Ellis the slowest skater in the NHL or is his skating motion just awkward?

 

-Peters...another embarrassing, turn my head, tug on your sweater, throw a wild punch or two and fall to the ice "fight".

 

-Roy, Stafford & Vanek all got caught up ice on the Rangers goal. I'm trying not to focus on him too much, but Stafford needs to put forth a better effort. He is a big boy who doesn't seem to like to use his size. I don't want him to be a huge physical force...just use your size along the boards to help your game offensively. It's early in the season and I hope sooner rather than later "he gets it".

 

-Miller very solid when called on.

 

-Did I say how impressed I am with Paille? :worthy:

 

-Not many giveaways in our own zone. Good job by the blueliners handling the puck.

 

-Congrats to Lindy on win #400!! :thumbsup:

 

GO SABRES!

[spndnchz]

sorry that i don't have time to sort through the thread to find opinions on this sub-topic: i love what kaleta brings, just love having a guy who can bring the physical, agitate and maybe chip in ~10 points over the course of a long season. love it.

 

but i saw that mara's take on their run-in was that kaleta's left his feet twice to hit him -- once last year when mara broke his face, and again last night. i saw the replay of the hit last night, and for sure kaleta was air-born.

 

so what do folks think: is kaleta dirty? defensibly dirty? does it matter to you?

Mara is 6-4 and Kaleta's 5-11, he has to jump :thumbsup: as long as he keeps the elbows down he's alright.

[spndnchz]

Snippets I love:

 

Rangers suffered their first defeat of 2008-09.

 

Rangers surrender their first two power play goals and their first shorthanded goal of the season.

 

Drury on the game: ?It seemed like we were a bit sloppy tonight, and a good team like Buffalo will take advantage of that, I thought we came out with good energy, but just kind of faded as the game wore on.?

 

Buffalo has given up only three goals in three games.

 

Lundqvist. ?They crashed the net really well. They had guys around me all night.?

 

Three star selections: notice no NYR.

1st: THOMAS VANEK

2nd: RYAN MILLER

3rd: ALES KOTALIK

[inkman]

so what do folks think: is kaleta dirty? defensibly dirty? does it matter to you?

 

No defense for Patty. My biggest problem with him is that he has to drop the gloves. If you are going around taking people out of the game, you need to be accountable. I'm not saying he has to fight Laraque or Boogard but Mara is certainly a guy Kaleta could tangle with.

 

Mara is 6-4 and Kaleta's 5-11, he has to jump :thumbsup: as long as he keeps the elbows down he's alright.

 

:thumbdown:

[spndnchz]

No defense for Patty. My biggest problem with him is that he has to drop the gloves. If you are going around taking people out of the game, you need to be accountable. I'm not saying he has to fight Laraque or Boogard but Mara is certainly a guy Kaleta could tangle with.

He doesn't have to drop the gloves all the time. He's out there to make the other team get the penalty not himself. He puts the manhood in the back pocket and let's people beat on him once in a while doesn't make him a girlie girl. He'll learn how to fight well soon enough.

 

And my elbow comment meant that he keeps 'em down he won't get a penalty for his hits, not that he shouldn't throw a few when he gets the chance. :thumbsup:

[BetweenThePipes00]

No defense for Patty. My biggest problem with him is that he has to drop the gloves. If you are going around taking people out of the game, you need to be accountable. I'm not saying he has to fight Laraque or Boogard but Mara is certainly a guy Kaleta could tangle with.

 

I agree, and I'd have to watch it again, but from what I saw live and a couple replays, when exactly was he supposed to square up and fight him? kaleta missed him with the check and Mara grabbed him from behind and started punching him in the face ... it's not like he challenged him and Kaleta tried to skate away. Mara can rationalize it however he wants, but it was still a selfish play, even if Kaleta fights him he gets the instigator and gives up a power play. If kaleta bringing that kind of reaction out in opponents he's doing his job.

 

The leaving his feet thing is a double standard, Peca did it ALL THE TIME and was praised as Captain Crunch. Guys do it all over the league every night. His antics do bother me a bit if he's not going to be willing to back them up ... but ... I gotta admit part of me wants a guy on the team who will ask "How's your broken face?" a full year after putting a guy out of the lineup. It's the classic "love him if he's on your team, hate him if he's not" guy.

[That Aud Smell]

Mara is 6-4 and Kaleta's 5-11, he has to jump :thumbsup: as long as he keeps the elbows down he's alright.

:unsure:

 

Rule 43 - Charging

 

43.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player or goalkeeper who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.

 

Charging shall mean the actions of a player or goalkeeper who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner.

 

http://www.nhl.com/ext/0708rules.pdf

 

that's a brutally-written rule. putting my lawyer hat on, there's a fair reading of this which says that it "shall" (that's mandatory language) be a penalty for a player to skate or jump into an opponent in any manner. i think what they meant to do was say that a "charge" can consist of skating or jumping into another player. but they needed an extra comma after the word "charge" in that first sentence to achieve that, imo. the rule should also start out with the definition of what "charging" is.

 

and, fwiw, after watching the first hit from last year, it looks like kaleta only left his feet as the result of the collision.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S3dWrAXX1U

 

and after seeing this feed -- especially the first angle that shows the distance traveled -- i can't say that what kaleta did last night was a charge, or otherwise a dirty hit.

 

 

and i infer from the rule book that there is no per se prohibition on leaving your skates to deliver a hit, but that doing so might prompt a referee to call a charge.

[Stoner]

No defense for Patty. My biggest problem with him is that he has to drop the gloves. If you are going around taking people out of the game, you need to be accountable. I'm not saying he has to fight Laraque or Boogard but Mara is certainly a guy Kaleta could tangle with.

 

You'd rather win the battle and lose the war? Do you want to win hockey games or are you just another knuckle-dragger who likes seeing guys on skates whiff on each other?

 

Very disappointed in ink this morning. Very disappointed.

[That Aud Smell]

It's the classic "love him if he's on your team, hate him if he's not" guy.

that's a big 10-4.

[Buffalo Wings]

so what do folks think: is kaleta dirty? defensibly dirty? does it matter to you?

I missed the game last night, so I didn't see the Mara hit and subsequent fight.

 

I don't think Kaleta is dirty and I wouldn't even say defensibly dirty. However, Kaleta's game is to be a pest/agitator, a la Sean Avery. We'd hate the guy's guts if he played for someone else, but I'd rather have a guy like this than Peters.

 

It would matter to me...I say this because I don't want a guy on my team with a "dirty player" reputation, but this team needs a guy that can draw penalties. What I like about Patrick is that he *can* do more than just agitate. He's shown some offensive abilities and will be able to play a defensive-minded game, though I'm not saying he's not like the typical two-way player we all love.

[BetweenThePipes00]

and, fwiw, after watching the first hit from last year, it looks like kaleta only left his feet as the result of the collision.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S3dWrAXX1U

 

and after seeing this feed -- especially the first angle that shows the distance traveled -- i can't say that what kaleta did last night was a charge, or otherwise a dirty hit.

 

 

Upon further review ... Mara is a crybaby for complaining about last year's hit, Kaleta never came close to leaving his feet and his legs were not moving when he hit him.

By the same token, after watching last night's again, Kaleta could have dropped his gloves, contrary to my first impression. he could not have done much, but he could have.

[inkman]

You'd rather win the battle and lose the war? Do you want to win hockey games or are you just another knuckle-dragger who likes seeing guys on skates whiff on each other?

 

Very disappointed in ink this morning. Very disappointed.

I'm not saying things should have gone differently last night but Kaleta has to fight, period. He should pick his spots and perhaps last night wasn't the night but when another teams agitator comes looking for Patty, he should oblige.

[That Aud Smell]

Mara is a crybaby

that's another 10-4. ;)

 

(but if the roles were reversed, i think we'd be saying that mara "did what he had to do.")

[inkman]

He doesn't have to drop the gloves all the time. He's out there to make the other team get the penalty not himself. He puts the manhood in the back pocket and let's people beat on him once in a while doesn't make him a girlie girl. He'll learn how to fight well soon enough.

 

And my elbow comment meant that he keeps 'em down he won't get a penalty for his hits, not that he shouldn't throw a few when he gets the chance. :thumbsup:

He should take a note form Moore vs. Bertuzzi (please stay away BMwolf and Vanek-Man), if you don't settle the score within the "code", something very bad is going to happen to you. It's not right but it's the law of the land...er...ice.

[BetweenThePipes00]

that's another 10-4. ;)

 

(but if the roles were reversed, i think we'd be saying that mara "did what he had to do.")

 

Maybe ... I guess problem is not with him wanting to fight kaleta as much as the fabrication that it was a dirty hit last season. Umberger went looking for Campbell the first time he faced him after The Hit too, but he didn't whine after that it was a dirty hit. He got caught, got popped, and proved he would not be intimidated the next time he faced the guy. All Mara proved is that you can get under his skin and he'll do something dumb.

[tom webster]

He should take a note form Moore vs. Bertuzzi (please stay away BMwolf and Vanek-Man), if you don't settle the score within the "code", something very bad is going to happen to you. It's not right but it's the law of the land...er...ice.

 

To add to what Ink is saying, Pat did fight a couple of times toward the end of last year and both current Sabres and Rob Ray on the telecast mentioned that he had to in order to "earn" the respect of his own teammates. And its not like he ran from Witt in Monday. On top of that, there was a story that he was working with I believe Rivet and Mair after practice on certain aspects of fighting (note no Peters). So the kid does get it.

[tom webster]

Game thoughts...

 

-Big win for the Sabres despite the injuries.

 

-If Vanek continues to skate hard(at both ends of the rink) like he did driving to the net on the two goals he scored, the sky is the limit. Great start for him!

 

-Paille another solid game...just practice those empty net shots! One play in particular stands out where Paille picked the pocket of a Rangers forward right at their blueline and in one motion turned and headed into their zone. :thumbsup:

 

-It appears that Lindy has the guys more focused on defense. I am not sure if this is going to lead to boring hockey, but as long as they have success doing it, I am all for it.

 

-Despite scoring 5 PP goals in two games, their doesn't seem to be a lot of confidence coming for the PP units. A lot of "hot potato" going on. Hopefully Connolly can help when he gets back in the lineup. :)

 

-I don't know if Lindy has told Kaleta to tone down his aggressiveness, but he seems to be a lot less noticeable. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him running around out of position trying to hit someone, but being a pest is his game.

 

-Where were the intangibles last night? :D

 

-I noticed Sekera on several occasions successfully skating the puck out of his own zone with a Ranger in pursuit. Hopefully he will continue to do this and become more of a weapon on the backline.

 

-Is Ellis the slowest skater in the NHL or is his skating motion just awkward?

 

-Peters...another embarrassing, turn my head, tug on your sweater, throw a wild punch or two and fall to the ice "fight".

 

-Roy, Stafford & Vanek all got caught up ice on the Rangers goal. I'm trying not to focus on him too much, but Stafford needs to put forth a better effort. He is a big boy who doesn't seem to like to use his size. I don't want him to be a huge physical force...just use your size along the boards to help your game offensively. It's early in the season and I hope sooner rather than later "he gets it".

 

-Miller very solid when called on.

 

-Did I say how impressed I am with Paille? :worthy:

 

-Not many giveaways in our own zone. Good job by the blueliners handling the puck.

 

-Congrats to Lindy on win #400!! :thumbsup:

 

GO SABRES!

 

I would concur and would add a few of my own points;

 

1)Paille has been great so far but I still see him as a 10 to 15 goal scorer, which is alright if he keeps this other stuff up.

2)Stafford and Tallinder better be careful or they could soon be ex-Sabres

3)The power play and lack of center depth has to be addressed if this team is going to contend. Of the 5 PP goals, I can't think of what that seemed to result form any sustained pressure.

4)It continues to amuse me that people that continuously harped last year about moving on continue to bring up Drury and take shots at him

[LabattBlue]

4)It continues to amuse me that people that continuously harped last year about moving on continue to bring up Drury and take shots at him

I only do it because Briere(the one who WANTED to stay) got kicked to the curb and Drury the golden boy who could do no wrong, told Larry to F*** off with his "I was willing to match the Rangers offer". B-)

[That Aud Smell]

1)Paille has been great so far but I still see him as a 10 to 15 goal scorer, which is alright if he keeps this other stuff up.

not entirely unfair, but 10 seems light. there's upside there with this kid. i see his game evolving a la hecht -- i.e., he can be sound defensively, play in all situations, have 15-20 goals and 30-40 assists in a season. plus there's an added upside of more physical play.

[LabattBlue]

not entirely unfair, but 10 seems light. there's upside there with this kid. i see his game evolving a la hecht -- i.e., he can be sound defensively, play in all situations, have 15-20 goals and 30-40 assists in a season. plus there's an added upside of more physical play.

15-20 is a reasonable expectation.

[inkman]

2)Stafford and Tallinder better be careful or they could soon be ex-Sabres

 

What precendent has been set by Darcy in regards to in season trades based on performance. Neither of these guys are going anywhere, anytime soon.

 

 

4)It continues to amuse me that people that continuously harped last year about moving on continue to bring up Drury and take shots at him

 

It continues to amuse me that people continuously harped last year about how great Drury is and continue to continuously defend him. :nana: