[OT] Another Contribution to the Financial Crisis

[FogBat]

Not even their Faith could bail them out.

 

Guys, you know how I am on here. Just don't paint me with this particular brush.

 

[Thanks to Ingrid over at sliceoflaodicea.com for providing the source.]

[carpandean]

Yet another reason why, at best, I would say: I am spiritual, but I am not religious. By that, I mean that I may have faith, believe in a high power and subscribe to a set of values, but I could never fully give myself over to any organized religion. By their very nature, organized religions are a product of man and, therefore, are subject to corruption and agendas beyond their roots. As with any organization, if you are aware of this, accept it and take the necessary steps to protect yourself from those aspects, they can still be useful. Unfortunately, many people have trouble separating their faith from their religion, so they will blindly walk into such traps.

[FogBat]

Yet another reason why, at best, I would say: I am spiritual, but I am not religious. By that, I mean that I may have faith, believe in a high power and subscribe to a set of values, but I could never fully give myself over to any organized religion. By their very nature, organized religions are a product of man and, therefore, are subject to corruption and agendas beyond their roots. As with any organization, if you are aware of this, accept it and take the necessary steps to protect yourself from those aspects, they can still be useful. Unfortunately, many people have trouble separating their faith from their religion, so they will blindly walk into such traps.

I mainly posted this because of one of the microscopic aspects of the collapse of the American economy. In all honesty, I had no idea that the charlatans were literally giving bad advice to such gullible people. They took it hook, link and sinker, and now they're victims of this mess as well.

 

Just absolutely appalling, and that is why I refuse to allow anyone to paint me with the same brush.

 

One thing I will say is that these "teachers" will have to give an account for what they've done.

[wjag]

This last week was potentially the most reckless seven days in a quarter of century. What transpired on Capital Hill last week should be enough for each and every one of those folks to be voted out of office.

 

For the first time in a long time, the wealthy folk's prosperity was at risk. And what do we see? 450 pages of pork-bloated legislation gets passed and signed in record time. Almost no debate. NO ONE knows if what they did would work and NO ONE even knows what the heck was in the bill. But it went from signature in the House to signature in the White House in 47 min. The House did the right thing on Monday by turning down the bill. By Wednesday, the Senate gets rare bi-partisan cooperation and plays some legislative shannigans and passes the bill that by LAW should start in the House. It comes laden with all kinds of pet projects these Senators couldn't get passed any other way. Where is John McCain's outrage over this? Where is Obama's promise of change and rallying cry of deferring same-old Washington politics? How does every one of these Senators go home at night and sleep when they gave away 110 Billion dollars when things were supposedly so desperate?

 

People have been suffering for years here in this country and it barely was a topic of conversation. But the good-ole boy network was in serious trouble and Congress who is beholden to them clearly bailed out their buddies and no one else.

 

Credit freeze? Yeah right... Please... It was Wall Street made and perpetrated to cause false panic. And CNN was completely complicit in whipping everyone up. If there was no money out there then how do Citi and Wells Fargo have enough to swoop in and buy Wachovia? Buffet is dropping BILLIONS everywhere. ExxonMobile finished the year with off-the-chart record profits. There is plenty of money out there. Don't even try to convince me otherwise.

 

Do people really believe that foreclosures will stop as a result of last week's bill? The poor are still poor. 750,000 folks have lost work this year. Where is their bailout?

[deluca67]

Anyone who thinks that a god has provided them a mortgage deserves to have their home foreclosed. People need to start living in reality and start taking personal responsibility for their financial situation. $700 billion dollars in tax payer's money is wasted because people can't live within their means. wjag is right when he points out there is a more dire crisis in American on the labor front. Do the math, add $700 billion with the hundreds of billions wasted in Iraq. That money could have sponsored a pretty significant works bill. The worst thing you can do in a financial crisis is throw money at it. Who's idea was this? George Steinbrenner's? All they are doing is giving money to those who have already proven they are incapable of making sound financial decisions.

[inkman]

This last week was potentially the most reckless seven days in a quarter of century. What transpired on Capital Hill last week should be enough for each and every one of those folks to be voted out of office.

 

For the first time in a long time, the wealthy folk's prosperity was at risk. And what do we see? 450 pages of pork-bloated legislation gets passed and signed in record time. Almost no debate. NO ONE knows if what they did would work and NO ONE even knows what the heck was in the bill. But it went from signature in the House to signature in the White House in 47 min. The House did the right thing on Monday by turning down the bill. By Wednesday, the Senate gets rare bi-partisan cooperation and plays some legislative shannigans and passes the bill that by LAW should start in the House. It comes laden with all kinds of pet projects these Senators couldn't get passed any other way. Where is John McCain's outrage over this? Where is Obama's promise of change and rallying cry of deferring same-old Washington politics? How does every one of these Senators go home at night and sleep when they gave away 110 Billion dollars when things were supposedly so desperate?

 

People have been suffering for years here in this country and it barely was a topic of conversation. But the good-ole boy network was in serious trouble and Congress who is beholden to them clearly bailed out their buddies and no one else.

 

Credit freeze? Yeah right... Please... It was Wall Street made and perpetrated to cause false panic. And CNN was completely complicit in whipping everyone up. If there was no money out there then how do Citi and Wells Fargo have enough to swoop in and buy Wachovia? Buffet is dropping BILLIONS everywhere. ExxonMobile finished the year with off-the-chart record profits. There is plenty of money out there. Don't even try to convince me otherwise.

 

Do people really believe that foreclosures will stop as a result of last week's bill? The poor are still poor. 750,000 folks have lost work this year. Where is their bailout?

 

I think I have a new man crush. :blush:

 

 

 

Rivet will be sorely (poor choice of words? :unsure: ) disappointed.

[FogBat]

This last week was potentially the most reckless seven days in a quarter of century. What transpired on Capital Hill last week should be enough for each and every one of those folks to be voted out of office.

 

For the first time in a long time, the wealthy folk's prosperity was at risk. And what do we see? 450 pages of pork-bloated legislation gets passed and signed in record time. Almost no debate. NO ONE knows if what they did would work and NO ONE even knows what the heck was in the bill. But it went from signature in the House to signature in the White House in 47 min. The House did the right thing on Monday by turning down the bill. By Wednesday, the Senate gets rare bi-partisan cooperation and plays some legislative shannigans and passes the bill that by LAW should start in the House. It comes laden with all kinds of pet projects these Senators couldn't get passed any other way. Where is John McCain's outrage over this? Where is Obama's promise of change and rallying cry of deferring same-old Washington politics? How does every one of these Senators go home at night and sleep when they gave away 110 Billion dollars when things were supposedly so desperate?

 

People have been suffering for years here in this country and it barely was a topic of conversation. But the good-ole boy network was in serious trouble and Congress who is beholden to them clearly bailed out their buddies and no one else.

 

Credit freeze? Yeah right... Please... It was Wall Street made and perpetrated to cause false panic. And CNN was completely complicit in whipping everyone up. If there was no money out there then how do Citi and Wells Fargo have enough to swoop in and buy Wachovia? Buffet is dropping BILLIONS everywhere. ExxonMobile finished the year with off-the-chart record profits. There is plenty of money out there. Don't even try to convince me otherwise.

 

Do people really believe that foreclosures will stop as a result of last week's bill? The poor are still poor. 750,000 folks have lost work this year. Where is their bailout?

Would you vote out those people who voted against it? Certainly not Ron Paul! Dr. No has certainly developed a reputation as being the most "Constitutional" members of Congress. He truly does serve the people.

 

As for what happened last week, I'm starting to wonder if I should find a new country to hang my hat.

[inkman]

Not even their Faith could bail them out.

 

What about putting dignity aside and getting a second job like so many of us have?

[FogBat]

What about putting dignity aside and getting a second job like so many of us have?

Very valid point (if they have the time to get a second job).

 

As an aside, I know of some bivocational (having a job besides being a pastor) preachers who not only don't preach that kind of nonsense, but also wouldn't put up with it either.

 

These charlatans - whether magisterial or ecclesiastical - need a pic of having a collective egg on their faces for this. Then again, they probably have Alfred E. Neuman's attitude of "What, me worry?" and absolve themselves of any responsibility.

[inkman]

Very valid point (if they have the time to get a second job).

 

I spend 2+ hours a day walking my dog. Eight plus hours @ my "real" job. Three plus hours a day @ my second job. An hour and a half watching my kid between when he gets home from school and when my wife gets home/I leave for my second job. Mix in several hours a week of household chores, doctors visits (no explanation coming), and whatever else my wife likes to cram into my schedule and I still have time for the Red Sox, Bills, Sabres, House, The Sheild, Lost, CSI, The Sarah Conner Chronicles, Chuck, and occasionally the Daily Show.

 

I'm not saying I'm doing anything special.

 

I just think people can work it into their schedule if they really wanted to.

[darksabre]

I'm just going to quote something someone said on another forum with regard to this mess:

 

Doomed to repeat history.

 

In 1913, President Woodrow Wilson approved the Federal Reserve Act. A few years later, he reflected:

 

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world -- no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

[FogBat]

I'm just going to quote something someone said on another forum with regard to this mess:

 

Doomed to repeat history.

 

In 1913, President Woodrow Wilson approved the Federal Reserve Act. A few years later, he reflected:

 

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world -- no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

No amount of words can express my gratitude toward you for posting this. I really appreciate you bringing this up.

 

Granted, Wilson was a progressive Democrat. However, he was nothing like most of the DNC as we know it today.

[evil_otto]

The House did the right thing on Monday by turning down the bill. By Wednesday, the Senate gets rare bi-partisan cooperation and plays some legislative shannigans and passes the bill that by LAW should start in the House. It comes laden with all kinds of pet projects these Senators couldn't get passed any other way.

Exactly... how the f*ck does it go through the Senate first when we all were taught that a bill has to go through the House first?

 

As far as all that extra shiat in the bill, such as something for Puerto Rican Rum and other crap, the one thing that was focused on was the FDIC insurance going up from $100,000 to $250,000. Big friggin deal! That was probably going to happen anyway. Where are items like the salary cap for bailed out CEO's in that bill?

 

Great job guys, way to suck it.

[FogBat]

Exactly... how the f*ck does it go through the Senate first when we all were taught that a bill has to go through the House first?

 

As far as all that extra shiat in the bill, such as something for Puerto Rican Rum and other crap, the one thing that was focused on was the FDIC insurance going up from $100,000 to $250,000. Big friggin deal! That was probably going to happen anyway. Where are items like the salary cap for bailed out CEO's in that bill?

 

Great job guys, way to suck it.

Exactly. The House did the right thing the first time. However, the Senate took it upon themselves to put pressure on the House to pass it. How much more egregious is that?

[That Aud Smell]

There is plenty of money out there.

don't forget the hedge funds -- they weathered this pretty well -- in fact, i think they cleaned up a bit by seeing this as a long time coming and taking short positions.

 

as painful as it probably would've been for a period of time, i think the better course would have been to inflict/endure the pain and make people pay for their recklessness. and by "people," i'm not just referring to fat cats on wall street, i'm talking also about the millions of "average" americans who stupidly over-leveraged themselves in an effort to attain a quality of life they had no business living.

 

on that last point, i can't count the number of times over the last 10 years that my wife has said to me in disbelief and wonder words to the following effect: "can you believe the <family name> are buying-building/driving/going on that 4000 sf house/those brand new vehicles/that luxurious vacation -- we're doing about as well as they are; how can they afford that stuff?!" i told her then, and i know it now: they couldn't afford it. there was a lesson to be learned here. i fear the opportunity was missed.

[spndnchz]

don't forget the hedge funds -- they weathered this pretty well -- in fact, i think they cleaned up a bit by seeing this as a long time coming and taking short positions.

 

as painful as it probably would've been for a period of time, i think the better course would have been to inflict/endure the pain and make people pay for their recklessness. and by "people," i'm not just referring to fat cats on wall street, i'm talking also about the millions of "average" americans who stupidly over-leveraged themselves in an effort to attain a quality of life they had no business living.

 

on that last point, i can't count the number of times over the last 10 years that my wife has said to me in disbelief and wonder words to the following effect: "can you believe the <family name> are buying-building/driving/going on that 4000 sf house/those brand new vehicles/that luxurious vacation -- we're doing about as well as they are; how can they afford that stuff?!" i told her then, and i know it now: they couldn't afford it. there was a lesson to be learned here. i fear the opportunity was missed.

B#1 Hedge funds will take a beating too, as investors look to pull their money and the managers will need to sell to make cash for redemptions, thus turning the market lower, until people realize things are so cheap and that while bad, it's not that bad.

 

B#2 But that's how they know they are successsful :wallbash:

[R_Dudley]

don't forget the hedge funds -- they weathered this pretty well -- in fact, i think they cleaned up a bit by seeing this as a long time coming and taking short positions.

 

as painful as it probably would've been for a period of time, i think the better course would have been to inflict/endure the pain and make people pay for their recklessness. and by "people," i'm not just referring to fat cats on wall street, i'm talking also about the millions of "average" americans who stupidly over-leveraged themselves in an effort to attain a quality of life they had no business living.

 

on that last point, i can't count the number of times over the last 10 years that my wife has said to me in disbelief and wonder words to the following effect: "can you believe the <family name> are buying-building/driving/going on that 4000 sf house/those brand new vehicles/that luxurious vacation -- we're doing about as well as they are; how can they afford that stuff?!" i told her then, and i know it now: they couldn't afford it. there was a lesson to be learned here. i fear the opportunity was missed.

 

Man you, WJAG, Dark4 all hit it on the head.. I don't think we should have bailed them out either. It should have been allowed to work itself out and correct itself. Think about it this way 'we have a market that has basically gone haywire because greedy, self serving, no conscious, power hungary idiots took advantage ignored the rules and did what they wanted and ran the credit/housing into the toilet' and now we put the plan and the power over it in Government hands which has exactly more of the same.

 

They do not really have a plan laid out of what they are going to do and are not sure what they need to do but now that they have that power to effect, prop up and or control the market like never before. <_< I think I'll start stuffing my mattress or burying my retirement in the back yard in precious metals as I can :ph34r:

[darksabre]

as painful as it probably would've been for a period of time, i think the better course would have been to inflict/endure the pain and make people pay for their recklessness. and by "people," i'm not just referring to fat cats on wall street, i'm talking also about the millions of "average" americans who stupidly over-leveraged themselves in an effort to attain a quality of life they had no business living.

 

Exactly. Once again, the government steps in to protect stupid people from themselves. We should have just left everything alone and let these people learn their lesson.

[jimiVbaby]

Exactly. Once again, the government steps in to protect stupid people from themselves. We should have just left everything alone and let these people learn their lesson.

Believe it or not, but without government interference this could have been MUCH worse. I still feel like this is the tip of the iceberg, but to say let everything fail would mean bank after bank going under, creating less and less competition, less profit, more failure. Pretty much moving towards the government owning all of the debt instead of some of it.

 

That being said.... this whole deal was pushed through WAY too fast. It's complete and utter bullsh*t of how this was put into action.

[FogBat]

Believe it or not, but without government interference this could have been MUCH worse. I still feel like this is the tip of the iceberg, but to say let everything fail would mean bank after bank going under, creating less and less competition, less profit, more failure. Pretty much moving towards the government owning all of the debt instead of some of it.

 

That being said.... this whole deal was pushed through WAY too fast. It's complete and utter bullsh*t of how this was put into action.

I wonder what Ebenezer Scrooge would have said about all of this...

[spndnchz]

I wonder what Ebenezer Scrooge would have said about all of this...

How about "f-em all I've got money"

 

word to your poor sick brother.

[FogBat]

How about "f-em all I've got money"

 

word to your poor sick brother.

Now that I think of it, Lazarus is in heaven with father Abraham, while the rich man who got all of his reward while he was on earth is burning in the Lake of Fire and can't warn anybody about his plight.

[deluca67]

Now that I think of it, Lazarus is in heaven with father Abraham, while the rich man who got all of his reward while he was on earth is burning in the Lake of Fire and can't warn anybody about his plight.

Who knew gay marriage was legal in heaven. :unsure:

[FogBat]

Who knew gay marriage was legal in heaven. :unsure:

You're putting words in my mouth and you know it. :thumbdown:

 

It was an illustration on greed and poverty, nothing more.

[deluca67]

You're putting words in my mouth and you know it. :thumbdown:

 

It was an illustration on greed and poverty, nothing more.

So, it's not so much a marriage as much as it is a "arrangement"? Like Anna Nicole Smith and that really old billionaire? Don't get me wrong I'm not judging. If Abraham and Lazarus are happy with their "arrangement" I don't have a problem with it. What two old guys do in the privacy of their own eternity is no business of mine. :thumbsup: