[OT] Hockey and the 2008 election

[Team Strike Force]

I'd rather have a beer with my Dad and best man than any political lame-o.

 

Taft wasn't shot. Hoover wasn't shot.

 

It won't be a landslide. I think it'll be close as Bush did a nice job polarizing the nation over the last 8 years.

 

In addition to the RNC stocking the audience, and ticket with attractive people, Fox News has done its best to put a pretty face on its politics.

 

It's hard to watch anything on TV without having to navigate through double-talk and party rhetoric. Newspapers are decent but you have to correct for author bias.

 

www.gallup.com is a good site. It's lots of polls but I think it's balaced coverage and at least you get an idea of where candidates stand on issues other than foreign policy and abortion.

 

I know who I'm voting for, and I think most Americans do, too. Which makes these conventions nothing more than an opportunity to galvinize party support and make people on your side feel good and the other side feel angry.

 

I'm voting for the man whose name can be combined with "maniac." McCainiac? Obamaniac?

[Taro T]

Reagan got shot. :) W. drank shots.

 

FDR wasn't shot.

Sorry, had a few too many last night. Didn't convey my meaning very clearly.

 

I was going after the "every President from Harrison through Kennedy elected in a "0" year died in office". Harrison, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Harding, Roosevelt, and Kennedy all died in office. Reagan "broke the curse" when he survived Jodi Foster's boyfriend. I didn't mean to imply everyone that died in office died from gunshot wounds.

[Knightrider]

Wrong, it's a Zero year.

 

Abe.

Garfield.

McKinley.

????

FDR.

Kenedy.

Reagan (broke the curse!)

W too (broke the curse!)

 

Warren Harding. William Harrison was the 1840 sacrifice.

[Knightrider]

I don't know of Democratic spin control artists like O'Reilly and Limbaugh. My In-Laws literally wake up in the morning to read their half dozen right wing websites to tell them what they should be spewing to their peers every day.

 

Oprah Winfrey was the first to come to mind. Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann are a quick 2nd and 3rd.

 

CNN would rank higher if it still had anyone watching.

 

Same thing for the New York Times. BTW, it is likely that if the NYT had carried the Edwards love-child scandal (it had nothing to do with truth as they did the false story on McCain a few weeks later), that we'd likely have Hillary as the nominee for the Dems? Edwards was predicted to come in ahead of Hillary in Iowa (he didn't, but was a close third)...

[FogBat]

 

George Stephanopoulos had to give him a quick lesson on what to really say.

 

Bias can be such a two-edged sword.

[inkman]

Oprah Winfrey was the first to come to mind. Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann are a quick 2nd and 3rd.

 

Oprah is a talk show geared toward housewives not "reporting" the news like O'Reily and Limbaugh. I've never actually watched Matthews and isn't Olbermann just trying to be funny like Jon Stewart. He doesn't claim that he is giving you the "truth" like your guys.

[Taro T]

 

George Stephanopoulos had to give him a quick lesson on what to really say.

 

Bias can be such a two-edged sword.

The guy made a misstatement, it was pointed out, and he corrected it. Can we please let that one drop?

 

There are plenty of things to hammer Obama on, his being a Muslim, is not one of them. Particularily because he is not a Muslim. :wallbash:

[Campy]

Oprah is a talk show geared toward housewives not "reporting" the news like O'Reily and Limbaugh. I've never actually watched Matthews and isn't Olbermann just trying to be funny like Jon Stewart. He doesn't claim that he is giving you the "truth" like your guys.

 

Olbermann can be hilarious but he refers to his show as a "news hour." The biggest difference I see (and yes, I watch both - it's a work thing) is that Olbermann's reports are grounded in reality albeit from a Dem's perspective. Fox tends to be more of a party parrot, they mislead while they spin.

 

Olbermann got cranked up right after Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, et al, started telling people that if they aren't good little soldiers and get in line behind the invasion of Iraq - something many people including myself were actually against before it happened - we were either un-American or we just simply hated America and wanted the "terrists" to win. That's when he started going hardcore on the GOP - same as Jon Stewart.

[FogBat]

The guy made a misstatement, it was pointed out, and he corrected it. Can we please let that one drop?

 

There are plenty of things to hammer Obama on, his being a Muslim, is not one of them. Particularily because he is not a Muslim. :wallbash:

Well, that has certainly come under scrutiny.

 

I certainly don't buy his line that he's a Christian, unless we want to call him a CINO.

[inkman]

I certainly don't buy his line that he's a Christian...

 

I work with a so called Deacon of a church. His resume:

 

Almost gets fired for pulling his shiv on a fellow co-worker, which to this day he still carries.

Sells bootleg DVD's to the rest of the thugs I work with, including porn.

Fornicates with work skanks in the parking lot, despite the fact he is a married man.

 

Let's just say, my opinion of so called "Christians" is a wee bit jaded. This is coming from a man who is related to a dozen or so heavy duty Christians. Many of my uncles have been ordained and most of their families work as missionaries in a country that never asked for the pale face God.

[FogBat]

I work with a so called Deacon of a church. His resume:

 

Almost gets fired for pulling his shiv on a fellow co-worker, which to this day he still carries.

Sells bootleg DVD's to the rest of the thugs I work with, including porn.

Fornicates with work skanks in the parking lot, despite the fact he is a married man.

 

Let's just say, my opinion of so called "Christians" is a wee bit jaded. This is coming from a man who is related to a dozen or so heavy duty Christians. Many of my uncles have been ordained and most of their families work as missionaries in a country that never asked for the pale face God.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "shiv"?

[carpandean]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "shiv"?

A weapon (knife-like) made from whatever is available and then concealed. Usually, you find them in prison.

[FogBat]

A weapon (knife-like) made from whatever is available and then concealed. Usually, you find them in prison.

Nuts! I should have known this from all the episodes of Lockup I've seen on MSNBC.

[Taro T]

Well, that has certainly come under scrutiny.

 

I certainly don't buy his line that he's a Christian, unless we want to call him a CINO.

Whether he IS a Christian is something that is likely debatable. I doubt few meet your level of Christianity (not meant as a slam, nor an endorsement), and many meet my level, and even more meet Inky's level (again, Inky, not meant as a slam or endorsement, you just happened to be posting in this thread); but that isn't the question / issue. The question is: is Obama a Muslim? And as near as I can tell, there is not one single CREDIBLE source that claims that he is. AND, even if he was, that does not, in itself make him a terrorist nor does it make him unfit to be the President of the USA.

 

As I said earlier, there are a lot of valid reasons to have reservations about Obama. What his religion is, and whether he is patriotic/ loves his country are not valid reasons to have reservations about him.

[inkman]

As I said earlier, there are a lot of valid reasons to have reservations about Obama. What his religion is, and whether he is patriotic/ loves his country are not valid reasons to have reservations about him.

 

:worthy: It scares me that voters will choose a canidate based on misconceptions and misinformation.

[Stoner]

Anyone catch the Palin interview on ABC? She did poorly. The phrase "lipstick on a pig" is starting to seem very appropriate. Someone has coached her very well the last 10 days while they wouldn't let her speak to the media, but they can't disguise her weak intellect. Time and again, she gave very strange answers to questions. When asked whether being governor of a state that's near Russia gave her foreign policy experience, she said yes. When pressed, she came back with the fact that from one part of Alaska, you can see Russia. How does that give you perspective on what's going on in Russia, the interviewer asked. There was no good answer.

 

She gave other answers that didn't come close to following logically. She said it didn't really matter if global warming is man-made or not, we still have to do something about it. If it's just part of a planetary cycle, which she almost certainly believes, what does she propose she and John and going to do about it!? And when pressed on her comment that the troops in Iraq are doing "God's will" and whether that meant the war is a Holy One, she blamed Abe Lincoln! Honestly. She said the quote came Abe. Again... so what?

 

The worst thing is that she's another one of these people who say "EYE-RACK." Oh yeah, she said she supports Georgia and other former Soviet states becoming part of NATO, and more or less committed us to going to war with Russia should those former states be invaded. Great.

[nobody]

Repent now! The end of days are near!

[spndnchz]

Anyone catch the Palin interview on ABC? She did poorly. The phrase "lipstick on a pig" is starting to seem very appropriate. Someone has coached her very well the last 10 days while they wouldn't let her speak to the media, but they can't disguise her weak intellect. Time and again, she gave very strange answers to questions. When asked whether being governor of a state that's near Russia gave her foreign policy experience, she said yes. When pressed, she came back with the fact that from one part of Alaska, you can see Russia. How does that give you perspective on what's going on in Russia, the interviewer asked. There was no good answer.

 

She gave other answers that didn't come close to following logically. She said it didn't really matter if global warming is man-made or not, we still have to do something about it. If it's just part of a planetary cycle, which she almost certainly believes, what does she propose she and John and going to do about it!? And when pressed on her comment that the troops in Iraq are doing "God's will" and whether that meant the war is a Holy One, she blamed Abe Lincoln! Honestly. She said the quote came Abe. Again... so what?

 

The worst thing is that she's another one of these people who say "EYE-RACK." Oh yeah, she said she supports Georgia and other former Soviet states becoming part of NATO, and more or less committed us to going to war with Russia should those former states be invaded. Great.

Bush got elected with Quayle. Just sayin'.

[Stoner]

Bush got elected with Quayle. Just sayin'.

 

You remember the day Quayle was introduced? That was funny.

[nobody]

I thought it was spelled Quayl

[Knightrider]

Oprah is a talk show geared toward housewives not "reporting" the news like O'Reily and Limbaugh. I've never actually watched Matthews and isn't Olbermann just trying to be funny like Jon Stewart. He doesn't claim that he is giving you the "truth" like your guys.

 

Limbaugh is a talk show host geared toward fat white guys, and not a news guy either. He has stated (at least back in the early 90s) that he is entertainer and not a journalist. Oprah stopped being just a talk show host when she went out campaigning for Obama. I can't stand O'Reily and have watched his show less that 10 or 20 times, so you may be right on that. NBC News had CM and KO anchoring primary coverage on MSNBC. To my knowledge, I am pretty sure Limbaugh has anchored and true news show. Dunno about Bill.

 

My "guy", btw, is more a right libertarian or a constitutionalist. I don't want to force my morals beyond those defined in the constitution.

 

WRT to Obama and religon, he is not Muslim, and IMHO, not a Christian. He is a Black Liberation Theologian, (one more link - ok, two). At least one of those links says BLT is a combination of ideas espoused by MLK Jr. (a Christian) and Malcolm X (a Sunni Muslim). Christianity (and I am pretty sure, Islam), as the New Testament (or Koran) taught, is focused one's eternal life, not this life. BLT is concerned with this life, not the afterlife. Christ's reason for coming, much to the confusion of the Jews, was to heal the spiritually poor, and spiritually oppressed Jews, not the physically poor (he told Judas that the poor would be with us always - a BLT fights against) and he spoke about how the Jew's religious leadership was corrupt from the inside out. (He has also the perfect sacrifice, btw...) Christ talked about how hard it would be for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven (his kingdom - the one the Jews thought the Messiah would start), and took the role of a servant by washing his disciple's feet just prior to his death. His followers were to love others more than themselves. He gives the example of someone who the Jews thought was of a different race (the Samaritan vs Jew) as who those others included. BLT preaches the opposite of that. Of course Christ's idea of loving you neighbor is much harder to do than say, and many atrocities have been committed in Christ's name. However, just because something is hard doesn't mean you should rewrite the rules. It is still a worthy goal to love your neighbor.

 

Anyhow, I do think Obama's religion/patriotism is THE issue to reject him. BLT opposes the morals of "White Christianity". BLT Founder David Cone writes

• "A moral or theological appeal based on a white definition of morality or theology will serve as a detriment to our attainment of black freedom. The only option we blacks have is to fight in every way possible, so that we can create a definition of freedom based on our own history and culture. We must not expect white people to give us freedom. Freedom is not a gift, but a responsibility, and thus must be taken against the will of those who hold us in bondage."
  

 

To me, that means that the U.S. Constitution is an impediment to "black freedom" since it was founded on the "white definition of morality". No thanks.

 

BLT is just as racist as the KKK, only from the other side. Whether it's black or white, racism is disgusting.

 

PA, she's running for VP. Obama's running for POTUS, and he doesn't think the abortion issue is addressable at his pay grade.

[Stoner]

PA, she's running for VP. Obama's running for POTUS, and he doesn't think the abortion issue is addressable at his pay grade.

 

He addresses the abortion issue all the time. He said he couldn't address the issue of when life begins, a more or less theological question. I think the distinction is important.

[FogBat]

:worthy: It scares me that voters will choose a canidate based on misconceptions and misinformation.

Don't they always, regardless of party?

 

FWIW, I voted for Ron Paul in the Virginia primary because I was convinced that he was truly the best candidate over the rest of them. What really stinks is the fact that his own party screwed him - just about literally. He brought the heat on them, and they couldn't - in the words of COL Nathan Jessup from A Few Good Men - "handle the truth."

[FogBat]

Whether he IS a Christian is something that is likely debatable. I doubt few meet your level of Christianity (not meant as a slam, nor an endorsement), and many meet my level, and even more meet Inky's level (again, Inky, not meant as a slam or endorsement, you just happened to be posting in this thread); but that isn't the question / issue. The question is: is Obama a Muslim? And as near as I can tell, there is not one single CREDIBLE source that claims that he is. AND, even if he was, that does not, in itself make him a terrorist nor does it make him unfit to be the President of the USA.

 

As I said earlier, there are a lot of valid reasons to have reservations about Obama. What his religion is, and whether he is patriotic/ loves his country are not valid reasons to have reservations about him.

Taro, I appreciate your post. It was well thought out. :thumbsup:

 

In all honesty, it is a lonely world out there. I'm not going to get into specifics, but all I am going to say is that ecclesiastical politics (as opposed to governmental politics) can be equally dirty business. A prime example was Spurgeon's Downgrade controversy with the Baptist Union in the 19th century. But that's as far as I'm going without getting way too ahead of myself.

[FogBat]

Limbaugh is a talk show host geared toward fat white guys, and not a news guy either. He has stated (at least back in the early 90s) that he is entertainer and not a journalist. Oprah stopped being just a talk show host when she went out campaigning for Obama. I can't stand O'Reily and have watched his show less that 10 or 20 times, so you may be right on that. NBC News had CM and KO anchoring primary coverage on MSNBC. To my knowledge, I am pretty sure Limbaugh has anchored and true news show. Dunno about Bill.

 

My "guy", btw, is more a right libertarian or a constitutionalist. I don't want to force my morals beyond those defined in the constitution.

 

WRT to Obama and religon, he is not Muslim, and IMHO, not a Christian. He is a Black Liberation Theologian, (one more link - ok, two). At least one of those links says BLT is a combination of ideas espoused by MLK Jr. (a Christian) and Malcolm X (a Sunni Muslim). Christianity (and I am pretty sure, Islam), as the New Testament (or Koran) taught, is focused one's eternal life, not this life. BLT is concerned with this life, not the afterlife. Christ's reason for coming, much to the confusion of the Jews, was to heal the spiritually poor, and spiritually oppressed Jews, not the physically poor (he told Judas that the poor would be with us always - a BLT fights against) and he spoke about how the Jew's religious leadership was corrupt from the inside out. (He has also the perfect sacrifice, btw...) Christ talked about how hard it would be for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven (his kingdom - the one the Jews thought the Messiah would start), and took the role of a servant by washing his disciple's feet just prior to his death. His followers were to love others more than themselves. He gives the example of someone who the Jews thought was of a different race (the Samaritan vs Jew) as who those others included. BLT preaches the opposite of that. Of course Christ's idea of loving you neighbor is much harder to do than say, and many atrocities have been committed in Christ's name. However, just because something is hard doesn't mean you should rewrite the rules. It is still a worthy goal to love your neighbor.

 

Anyhow, I do think Obama's religion/patriotism is THE issue to reject him. BLT opposes the morals of "White Christianity". BLT Founder David Cone writes

 

To me, that means that the U.S. Constitution is an impediment to "black freedom" since it was founded on the "white definition of morality". No thanks.

 

BLT is just as racist as the KKK, only from the other side. Whether it's black or white, racism is disgusting.

 

PA, she's running for VP. Obama's running for POTUS, and he doesn't think the abortion issue is addressable at his pay grade.

This post - far and away - is the best post I've seen on this thread.

 

FWIW, Rick Warren made it clear that Obama was purposely elusive on that question after that Presidential Forum at his church out in SoCal. I have to give a :thumbsup: to Warren on that one, in spite of the fact that he is definitely not one of my favorite preachers.

 

IMHO, when I heard Obama make that comment, I found it deeply insulting. :angry: I know that there are a number of us on here who don't come close to making a US Senator's salary, and he had the audacity to say that - given the fact that there are a number of us who already have our minds made up on that issue alone regardless of annual salary.