The Miller signing is nice, but...........

[deluca67]

What does an early 80's major joint operation before arthroscopic surgery was in vogue +/or perfected have to do with Timmy's (or, for that matter, anyone's) situation?

It's a silly response to a silly thought. Everyone is durable until they get hurt and knocked out of the game.

[BetweenThePipes00]

For the record you're happy Miller has his contract, but be honest. You'll never be happy. There will always be situations like this, where something is important and the FO needs to wake up and get it done, and then when it happens it's suddenly of lesser significance. Again, it's because of the seemingly intractable psychology of many Sabres fans: The grass is always greener on other teams.

 

"the failures of the FO to improve the hockey even the slightest"

 

Those are words only someone determined to remain sour could utter. Come on...

 

 

I disagree with Deluca, but i have to defend him here ... he is not pissy for the sake of being pissy ... we know this because coming out of the lockout he was twice as pissy as he is now and once he was proven wrong about Satan and the direction of the franchise, he admitted it and defended the FO, even through losing Drury and Briere. So if he is pissed, it's because he honsetly thinks they are going the wrong way, not just to be a pain.

I know it would be tough for you to tell as a new poster, he does mix in with the rest of them easily when he gets pissed.

[deluca67]

Every once and awhile you post something that convinces me that your only goal is to be contrarian. If you really think that a veteran calming influence in the middle of a couple of third period collapses wouldn't have come in handy, you know less about sports and hockey in particular then I would have ever guessed.

By the way, its Kluzak.

If you did your homework you would know I have never been a supporter of Teppo. Calming influence? Does Teppo go up and down the bench and give back massages and positive reinforcement? Because the guy is forty he suddenly becomes this great sage that all the younger players draw energy from? If he is such a calming influence put him behind the bench. This team already has too many players on the roster they can't rely on night in and night out. Is Teppo going to go out on the ice and fall over and lose games? No! He's not going to contribute anything to winning you any games either. Teppo is as much a calming influence as Peters is an enforcer. In theory they are beautiful things. On the ice they are far from true.

[nucci]

If you did your homework you would know I have never been a supporter of Teppo. Calming influence? Does Teppo go up and down the bench and give back massages and positive reinforcement? Because the guy is forty he suddenly becomes this great sage that all the younger players draw energy from? If he is such a calming influence put him behind the bench. This team already has too many players on the roster they can't rely on night in and night out. Is Teppo going to go out on the ice and fall over and lose games? No! He's not going to contribute anything to winning you any games either. Teppo is as much a calming influence as Peters is an enforcer. In theory they are beautiful things. On the ice they are far from true.

By calming influence, I think he means on the ice. Many times you see teams running around when a shift gets out of control. In the past, Teppo would make a play or pass and settle things down and get the team out of trouble. I'm not going to argue the point but I like his game and hope he plays with us this year.

[Stoner]

Sorry to offend you so much. Let's see, if I understand your post, Ryan Miller is really an old washed up 28 year old goalie with zero upside and one of the worst goalies in the NHL. Do I have it right? I never said Miller is or ever will be as good as the Dominator. My point is that he is at the age now where goalies seem to settle down and play to their potential consistently. And with the new contract behind him, maybe he will save a few more of those shots above the circle.

 

Strawman alert.

 

Are you really saying Ryan's contract situation last year (next to last year of a contract, making very good money) caused him to lose focus on the ice?

[Stoner]

He says he actually really likes Miller.

 

Well, I don't LIKE him like him, but yeah I like him. Did I say I "really" liked him? He's a good guy and a good goalie. I just refuse to participate in the overrating of Ryan Miller.

[Bmwolf21]

Well, I don't LIKE him like him, but yeah I like him. Did I say I "really" liked him? He's a good guy and a good goalie. I just refuse to participate in the overrating of Ryan Miller.

Methinks the poster doth protest too much.

[FogBat]

Crosschecking, the least you could do is answer DeLuca's question...

I did answer his question. It just wasn't good enough for that Chief of Statueless Critics. <_<

[FogBat]

For the record you're happy Miller has his contract, but be honest. You'll never be happy. There will always be situations like this, where something is important and the FO needs to wake up and get it done, and then when it happens it's suddenly of lesser significance. Again, it's because of the seemingly intractable psychology of many Sabres fans: The grass is always greener on other teams.

 

"the failures of the FO to improve the hockey even the slightest"

 

Those are words only someone determined to remain sour could utter. Come on...

BINGO!!! Well put!

 

At least someone else out there is thinking the same thing I am about him.

 

It is so easy for him to whine and complain about every little nuance coming from the FO that he doesn't like. However, he's not the one in the hot seat that has to make bottom-line decisions everyday. That's why I said what I said after his starter post to this thread.

 

Now I know why someone once advised me not to go to TBD. It makes perfect sense now.

[nfreeman]

If you did your homework you would know I have never been a supporter of Teppo. Calming influence? Does Teppo go up and down the bench and give back massages and positive reinforcement? Because the guy is forty he suddenly becomes this great sage that all the younger players draw energy from? If he is such a calming influence put him behind the bench. This team already has too many players on the roster they can't rely on night in and night out. Is Teppo going to go out on the ice and fall over and lose games? No! He's not going to contribute anything to winning you any games either. Teppo is as much a calming influence as Peters is an enforcer. In theory they are beautiful things. On the ice they are far from true.

 

Well, Darcy and Lindy clearly think he adds a lot of value, and so do his teammates. Mair said last summer that Teppo was going to be the captain (and not the monthly version, either). Remember, just because he's not a big-hitting Pronger type, it doesn't mean he's not an effective defenseman.

[VJF59]

Strawman alert.

 

Are you really saying Ryan's contract situation last year (next to last year of a contract, making very good money) caused him to lose focus on the ice?

 

So now I am a "strawman". What exactly is a strawman anyway? I'm new on this board. Let me see if I can end this debate with more logic for you. I could care less how horrible Miller played last year. I watched every game they had on TV, and I think they showed just about every one of them. I agree he let in some bad goals, and I also agree with you that those bad goals had nothing to do with his contract status last year. Can you grasp the fact that I am talking about this season and the next 6 seasons, and just forget about last year? I think every one posting on this board has already forgotten about last year. This is the season his contract status would affect him emotionally. I certainly hope you're not going to challange that fact. And I am happy that it can only affect him positively since for the first time, Golisano and staff took care of the contract a year ahead of time. And one more thing. I don't think the Sabres are the only team in the NHL that thinks Miller is a better goalie then you do. If the Sabres would have refused to sign Miller early, and Miller would have played well despite that fact this season, I'm quiite sure another NHL team would have signed him to a record deal for NHL goalies that would make your assessment of him seem laughable.

[deluca67]

I did answer his question. It just wasn't good enough for that Chief of Statueless Critics. <_<

I just went back and reread your response. You didn't answer answer the question. You had some rah rah BS nothing else.

 

Also,

 

In the future don't try to categorize my opinions unless you actually read them. It's lame when posters like yourself try to take one opinion of mine and weave it into a history of similar opinions. If you spent any time researching before you and others post this crap you would know that I have been very happy up to this off-season. My opinions and criticisms pertain to this off-season. I know it's difficult for some to try to understand how I don't formulate my opinions based on my previous opinions. There are many posters on this board who have an established stance and refuse to even consider possibly altering the stance in fear it may mean their original stance was wrong. I have no such fear. My opinion is and always will be based on the latest information. Today all the information available has me rating this off season very low. If the Sabres make some moves to improve the roster I will give them full credit. As of today I see no improvements to a 10th place team.

[deluca67]

So now I am a "strawman". What exactly is a strawman anyway? I'm new on this board. Let me see if I can end this debate with more logic for you. I could care less how horrible Miller played last year. I watched every game they had on TV, and I think they showed just about every one of them. I agree he let in some bad goals, and I also agree with you that those bad goals had nothing to do with his contract status last year. Can you grasp the fact that I am talking about this season and the next 6 seasons, and just forget about last year? I think every one posting on this board has already forgotten about last year. This is the season his contract status would affect him emotionally. I certainly hope you're not going to challange that fact. And I am happy that it can only affect him positively since for the first time, Golisano and staff took care of the contract a year ahead of time. And one more thing. I don't think the Sabres are the only team in the NHL that thinks Miller is a better goalie then you do. If the Sabres would have refused to sign Miller early, and Miller would have played well despite that fact this season, I'm quiite sure another NHL team would have signed him to a record deal for NHL goalies that would make your assessment of him seem laughable.

I think many would agree that contracts have become less of a reflection of a players ability and more about timing and the availability of similar players in the marketplace.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I think many would agree that contracts have become less of a reflection of a players ability and more about timing and the availability of similar players in the marketplace.

 

 

I would agree with that, but wouldn't that mean if they DIDN'T lock Miller up that they would risk having to to overpay for someone better after next season if they let him go? If there was even someone better available?

There's no perfect player out there ... Miller has his flaws but they know him and are in a position to decide if they think he has hit his ceiling or if he will growm from last season's struggles. Apparently they expect him to bounce back ... you may disagree, but I like the odds of that better than him playing out the deal (disaster for this season) and then searching for someone else (total crapshoot).

[Stoner]

So now I am a "strawman". What exactly is a strawman anyway? I'm new on this board. Let me see if I can end this debate with more logic for you. I could care less how horrible Miller played last year. I watched every game they had on TV, and I think they showed just about every one of them. I agree he let in some bad goals, and I also agree with you that those bad goals had nothing to do with his contract status last year. Can you grasp the fact that I am talking about this season and the next 6 seasons, and just forget about last year? I think every one posting on this board has already forgotten about last year. This is the season his contract status would affect him emotionally. I certainly hope you're not going to challange that fact. And I am happy that it can only affect him positively since for the first time, Golisano and staff took care of the contract a year ahead of time. And one more thing. I don't think the Sabres are the only team in the NHL that thinks Miller is a better goalie then you do. If the Sabres would have refused to sign Miller early, and Miller would have played well despite that fact this season, I'm quiite sure another NHL team would have signed him to a record deal for NHL goalies that would make your assessment of him seem laughable.

 

Strawman is when you put words in someone's mouth, so you can easily shoot them down. I never said Ryan was washed up, one of the worst, with zero upside. Few around the league would consider my assessment of Ryan laughable: he's an above average goalie; he's a good character guy; he has some serious technical flaws; he tends to lose focus; he has shown signs he can be an elite goalie, especially in the playoffs, but isn't one yet; he couldn't hold up under a major workload last season; although he was once considered almost unbeatable one on one, it almost seems like the book on Miller has gotten out there; of course his best days could be ahead, but that can be said about almost any player. I don't pretend to be an expert, but that's the way I see it.

 

Listen, I know the NHL and the Sabres have very good reasons for pimping the guy as The Next Coming. I just don't buy into it. I remember when athletes had to be great to be called great.

[deluca67]

I would agree with that, but wouldn't that mean if they DIDN'T lock Miller up that they would risk having to to overpay for someone better after next season if they let him go? If there was even someone better available?

There's no perfect player out there ... Miller has his flaws but they know him and are in a position to decide if they think he has hit his ceiling or if he will growm from last season's struggles. Apparently they expect him to bounce back ... you may disagree, but I like the odds of that better than him playing out the deal (disaster for this season) and then searching for someone else (total crapshoot).

I like Miller and have no problem with the contract. I don't think I have ever said otherwise.

[carpandean]

although he was once considered almost unbeatable one on one, it almost seems like the book on Miller has gotten out there;

I don't know what they practiced last off-season, but it also seemed like the way he played one-on-ones changed from the 2006-07 season. By the end of last year, despite looking a bit worn out, I thought he started to correct some of those changes and was handling one-on-ones better. Was it just my imagination or did anyone else notice this?

[VJF59]

Strawman is when you put words in someone's mouth, so you can easily shoot them down. I never said Ryan was washed up, one of the worst, with zero upside. Few around the league would consider my assessment of Ryan laughable: he's an above average goalie; he's a good character guy; he has some serious technical flaws; he tends to lose focus; he has shown signs he can be an elite goalie, especially in the playoffs, but isn't one yet; he couldn't hold up under a major workload last season; although he was once considered almost unbeatable one on one, it almost seems like the book on Miller has gotten out there; of course his best days could be ahead, but that can be said about almost any player. I don't pretend to be an expert, but that's the way I see it.

 

Listen, I know the NHL and the Sabres have very good reasons for pimping the guy as The Next Coming. I just don't buy into it. I remember when athletes had to be great to be called great.

 

Wow. How stupid of me. Of course I should have known what your real assessment of Ryan Miller is. Everyone knows that when you read this:

 

"From mentioning Miller in the same post as Hasek to calling him one of the best goalies in the NHL to referencing his "youth," this post was like nails on a chalkboard (sorry for the clich?)."

 

It really means that you think: "he's an above average goalie; he's a good character guy; he has some serious technical flaws; he tends to lose focus; he has shown signs he can be an elite goalie, especially in the playoffs, but isn't one yet."

 

If you want to fire negative, sarcastic simplistic replies like your chalkboard post back at my reasonable posts, please don't get so fired up when I react in kind, regardless if it makes me a "strawman" or not.

[VJF59]

I don't know what they practiced last off-season, but it also seemed like the way he played one-on-ones changed from the 2006-07 season. By the end of last year, despite looking a bit worn out, I thought he started to correct some of those changes and was handling one-on-ones better. Was it just my imagination or did anyone else notice this?

 

I agree. I noticed Ryan was improving on his one-on-ones towards the end of the season also. I get a little frustrated with his butterfly style. I really think the biggest reason he got worn down by the end of the season (other then the fact he played in too many games), is that he simply spends too much time dropping to his knees and getting back up again. I know I'll get flamed about how that style is the best and covers the net better then stand-up style and all of that. And please don't remind me that Roy took that style to 3 or 4 Cups and the Hall of Fame. I know that too. But anybody can see that there are plenty of shots that start out as shots that he immediately drops to his knees for, that never end up getting to the net. That wasted dropping down and getting back up has to affect both his knees and his wind when you multiply 65 to 70 games into the equation.

[Stoner]

Wow. How stupid of me. Of course I should have known what your real assessment of Ryan Miller is. Everyone knows that when you read this:

 

"From mentioning Miller in the same post as Hasek to calling him one of the best goalies in the NHL to referencing his "youth," this post was like nails on a chalkboard (sorry for the clich?)."

 

It really means that you think: "he's an above average goalie; he's a good character guy; he has some serious technical flaws; he tends to lose focus; he has shown signs he can be an elite goalie, especially in the playoffs, but isn't one yet."

 

If you want to fire negative, sarcastic simplistic replies like your chalkboard post back at my reasonable posts, please don't get so fired up when I react in kind, regardless if it makes me a "strawman" or not.

 

I don't think it's reasonable to say Miller is young, or one of the best (unless the "best" pool has 10 or 15 goalies in it). Sorry.

 

And I'm not fired up. You won't like me when I'm angry. Ask BM.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I agree. I noticed Ryan was improving on his one-on-ones towards the end of the season also. I get a little frustrated with his butterfly style. I really think the biggest reason he got worn down by the end of the season (other then the fact he played in too many games), is that he simply spends too much time dropping to his knees and getting back up again. I know I'll get flamed about how that style is the best and covers the net better then stand-up style and all of that. And please don't remind me that Roy took that style to 3 or 4 Cups and the Hall of Fame. I know that too. But anybody can see that there are plenty of shots that start out as shots that he immediately drops to his knees for, that never end up getting to the net. That wasted dropping down and getting back up has to affect both his knees and his wind when you multiply 65 to 70 games into the equation.

You're right, Miller is no different than any other butterfly goalie ... when they struggle it's usually because they are dropping too early ... and it does wear you down (I know too well) ... and the more tired you are, the more likely you are to drop early, you get lazy ... hopefully the combination of him being better prepared physically and not having to play as many games will keep him sharper.

[Stoner]

I agree. I noticed Ryan was improving on his one-on-ones towards the end of the season also. I get a little frustrated with his butterfly style. I really think the biggest reason he got worn down by the end of the season (other then the fact he played in too many games), is that he simply spends too much time dropping to his knees and getting back up again. I know I'll get flamed about how that style is the best and covers the net better then stand-up style and all of that. And please don't remind me that Roy took that style to 3 or 4 Cups and the Hall of Fame. I know that too. But anybody can see that there are plenty of shots that start out as shots that he immediately drops to his knees for, that never end up getting to the net. That wasted dropping down and getting back up has to affect both his knees and his wind when you multiply 65 to 70 games into the equation.

 

Agree about going down. (Ahem.) Not unnecessarily, but too soon. Anyone care to guess how many shots beat him top shelf last season?

[Stoner]

You're right, Miller is no different than any other butterfly goalie ... when they struggle it's usually because they are dropping too early ... and it does wear you down (I know too well) ... and the more tired you are, the more likely you are to drop early, you get lazy ... hopefully the combination of him being better prepared physically and not having to play as many games will keep him sharper.

 

Hey BTP, ever notice how Miller goes to his knees a lot (maybe just one knee -- I'm trying to envision it) when the play is behind the net? It always makes me nervous.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Hey BTP, ever notice how Miller goes to his knees a lot (maybe just one knee -- I'm trying to envision it) when the play is behind the net? It always makes me nervous.

 

yeah well I think that is a technique thing that is actually pretty sound vs. wraparounds ... I am pretty much self-taught, but to me you have to trust that a pass will not get to the slot cleanly AND that a resulting shot will not be so uncontested that the guy can pick a top corner before you can get up and in your stance ... but even the pass does get there cleanly and the shot is uncontested (happened too much last season), you also have to get to your feet quickly ... which brings us back to the tired/lazy thing ... it's easy to stay down there and hope it hits you ...

[VJF59]

I think many would agree that contracts have become less of a reflection of a players ability and more about timing and the availability of similar players in the marketplace.

 

That's true, and I think the teams are crazy to be paying so much for players today. But that still doesn't change the fact that Buffalo was smart to lock up Miller for 6 years now, a year before they would have had to. He had a bad year last season, but we all agree he has the potential for being an elite goalie.