When I say spend wisely on your core, this is what I am talking about....

[LabattBlue]

Cap hit for next year(09-10) as it stands today...

 

Vanek 7.15

Miller 6.25

Pominville 5.0(I think a pretty good guess on my part)

Roy 4.0

Hecht 3.5

Rivet 3.5

 

The 6 player total is 29.4 mil, which based on this years self imposed cap budget of 50 mil with a 2 mil increase(once again just a guess) for next year, would leave the Sabres with 22.6 mil for 16 other players or an average of 1.4 mil per player. When you factor in guys like Tallinder, Lydman and Gaustad(all under contract for 09-10) who are all above the 1.4 mil level, the average for the rest of the players continues to go down even more. Look for a lot of young players on entry level contracts or really inexpensive vets to fill out the roster(3rd and 4th line, 5-6 dmen and #2 goalie) for the next few years.

[SabresFan526]

Cap hit for next year(09-10) as it stands today...

 

Vanek 7.15

Miller 6.25

Pominville 5.0(I think a pretty good guess on my part)

Roy 4.0

Hecht 3.5

Rivet 3.5

 

The 6 player total is 29.4 mil, which based on this years self imposed cap budget of 50 mil with a 2 mil increase(once again just a guess) for next year, would leave the Sabres with 22.6 mil for 16 other players or an average of 1.4 mil per player. When you factor in guys like Tallinder, Lydman and Gaustad(all under contract for 09-10) who are all above the 1.4 mil level, the average for the rest of the players continues to go down even more. Look for a lot of young players on entry level contracts or really inexpensive vets to fill out the roster(3rd and 4th line, 5-6 dmen and #2 goalie) for the next few years.

I'm not sure I understand your point or I'm just totally missing it altogether.

 

My opinion is I'm fine with the team being built this way from within. Remember, for the 2009-2010 season, Kotalik, Connolly, Max, and Spacek all come off the books. That means guys like Stafford in his second contract, Gerbe, Kennedy, Kaleta, MacArthur, Sekera, Weber, and Butler all have to step up. It's a lot like in 2005-2006 when a bunch of ragtag kids from Rochester named Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Gaustad and Miller complimented a solid core of guys like Briere, Drury, Dumont, Grier, Hecht, etc. Also, that happen to be the year that we finally saw the emergence of Tallinder and Campbell from the blueline. I believe in building the team through the draft, keeping your core group of guys together, and supplement the team with hungry young guys or cheaper veterans acquired through trade or free agency who can provide grit. I think this is a good way to build the team. I think the Sabres have a solid foundation and if they simply add one more piece of the puzzle, specifically another centerman between Hecht and Pominville, I think this team immediately becomes a contender again. Personally, I'm okay with the team being built this way. They've established who their core guys are and are building the team around them. I wish Drury was part of that core, but we have to move on and establish that the names you've got above are the core of this team.

[BuffalOhio]

I'm not sure I understand your point or I'm just totally missing it altogether.

 

My opinion is I'm fine with the team being built this way from within. Remember, for the 2009-2010 season, Kotalik, Connolly, Max, and Spacek all come off the books. That means guys like Stafford in his second contract, Gerbe, Kennedy, Kaleta, MacArthur, Sekera, Weber, and Butler all have to step up. It's a lot like in 2005-2006 when a bunch of ragtag kids from Rochester named Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Gaustad and Miller complimented a solid core of guys like Briere, Drury, Dumont, Grier, Hecht, etc. Also, that happen to be the year that we finally saw the emergence of Tallinder and Campbell from the blueline. I believe in building the team through the draft, keeping your core group of guys together, and supplement the team with hungry young guys or cheaper veterans acquired through trade or free agency who can provide grit. I think this is a good way to build the team. I think the Sabres have a solid foundation and if they simply add one more piece of the puzzle, specifically another centerman between Hecht and Pominville, I think this team immediately becomes a contender again. Personally, I'm okay with the team being built this way. They've established who their core guys are and are building the team around them. I wish Drury was part of that core, but we have to move on and establish that the names you've got above are the core of this team.

 

Excellent post, and I also agree that the pot o'gold for the young guys is getting a bit smaller with each extension handed out.

[LabattBlue]

I'm not sure I understand your point or I'm just totally missing it altogether.

It's pretty simple...

 

1. The players who you hand out big contract to, better live up to them.

 

2. Once you hand out contracts like this, expect to fill out the remainder of your roster with fairly inexpensive pieces.

 

3. When Spacek, Connolly, Max and Kotalik go off the roster next year, don't think that money is there to spend. You just used the bulk of it to pay for Pominville and Miller. Those players will be replaced by minimum salary to 1.5 mil players.

[LabattBlue]

...or cheaper veterans acquired through trade or free agency who can provide grit.

I agree with this. So where are all the cheap vets we are acquiring through FA or trade?

[spndnchz]

I'm not sure I understand your point or I'm just totally missing it altogether.

 

My opinion is I'm fine with the team being built this way from within. Remember, for the 2009-2010 season, Kotalik, Connolly, Max, and Spacek all come off the books. That means guys like Stafford in his second contract, Gerbe, Kennedy, Kaleta, MacArthur, Sekera, Weber, and Butler all have to step up. It's a lot like in 2005-2006 when a bunch of ragtag kids from Rochester named Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Gaustad and Miller complimented a solid core of guys like Briere, Drury, Dumont, Grier, Hecht, etc. Also, that happen to be the year that we finally saw the emergence of Tallinder and Campbell from the blueline. I believe in building the team through the draft, keeping your core group of guys together, and supplement the team with hungry young guys or cheaper veterans acquired through trade or free agency who can provide grit. I think this is a good way to build the team. I think the Sabres have a solid foundation and if they simply add one more piece of the puzzle, specifically another centerman between Hecht and Pominville, I think this team immediately becomes a contender again. Personally, I'm okay with the team being built this way. They've established who their core guys are and are building the team around them. I wish Drury was part of that core, but we have to move on and establish that the names you've got above are the core of this team.

GAS?, What would your lines be for the 09-10 season?

[tom webster]

Cap hit for next year(09-10) as it stands today...

 

Vanek 7.15

Miller 6.25

Pominville 5.0(I think a pretty good guess on my part)

Roy 4.0

Hecht 3.5

Rivet 3.5

 

The 6 player total is 29.4 mil, which based on this years self imposed cap budget of 50 mil with a 2 mil increase(once again just a guess) for next year, would leave the Sabres with 22.6 mil for 16 other players or an average of 1.4 mil per player. When you factor in guys like Tallinder, Lydman and Gaustad(all under contract for 09-10) who are all above the 1.4 mil level, the average for the rest of the players continues to go down even more. Look for a lot of young players on entry level contracts or really inexpensive vets to fill out the roster(3rd and 4th line, 5-6 dmen and #2 goalie) for the next few years.

 

a) I put together a line up with Sekera at $1.5 next year, three entry level contracts and a new center at $4 million to come up with a salary cap of $51.1.

b) I don't believe Buffalo can stay at $50 million next year and qualify for the full revenue sharing share. I believe the budget will be closer to $53 next year.

[SabresFan526]

I agree with this. So where are all the cheap vets we are acquiring through FA or trade?

You're not going to get an argument from me on this one. This has been a big frustrating point for me as guys like Brendan Morrison and other cheap guys have been available that the Sabres did not go after. If the Sabres feel they can use younger guys instead of vets, then I would not agree with that strategy, but that seems to be their strategy. I think Rivet is a start in terms acquiring a vet through trade, but I would not call him cheap necessarily. Oh well.

[LabattBlue]

a) I put together a line up with Sekera at $1.5 next year, three entry level contracts and a new center at $4 million to come up with a salary cap of $51.1.

b) I don't believe Buffalo can stay at $50 million next year and qualify for the full revenue sharing share. I believe the budget will be closer to $53 next year.

My numbers in the initial post are based on a 52 million(not 50) cap budget for the Sabres. So you are replacing Max, Connolly, Kotalik and Spacek with a new center and 3 guys from the farm, correct? I didn't do the math, but that comes out to 51.1 mil cap hit which looks something like this for 09-10???

 

Vanek-Roy-Stafford

Hecht-new center-Pominville

Paille-Gaustad-???

Kaleta-Mair-???

Spare forward - ???

 

Tallinder-Lydman

Rivet-Sekera

Weber-Butler

Paetsch

 

Miller

???-

[spndnchz]

My numbers in the initial post are based on a 52 million(not 50) cap budget for the Sabres. So you are replacing Max, Connolly, Kotalik and Spacek with a new center and 3 guys from the farm, correct? I didn't do the math, but that comes out to 51.1 mil cap hit which looks something like this for 09-10???

 

Vanek-Roy-Stafford

Hecht-new center-Pominville

Paille-Gaustad-???

Kaleta-Mair-???

Spare forward - ???

 

Tallinder-Lydman

Rivet-Sekera

Weber-Butler

Paetsch

 

Miller

???-

It seems the more we look the more we really need that vet center.

vet center

vet center

vet center

[carpandean]

Under contract for 09-10, we have:

Vanek $7.143

Roy $4

Hecht $3.525

Gaustad $2.3

Paille $1.125

Mair $0.758

 

Rivet $3.5

Lydman $2.875

Tallinder $2.562

Paetsch $0.850

Weber $0.750

 

Miller $6.250

Lalime $1

 

Plus, MacArthur, Mancari, etc. who only count against the cap if they are playing up here.

 

If Pommer gets $5, then the total for all listed, plus Jason is $41.638, leaving $10 million.

 

To fill the roster, we would need Stafford, Sekera, Kaleta, a vet center and then one third-pair/reserve Dman and three third-line/fourth-line/reserve forwards from the guys currently playing in Portland or externally-sourced role players. Stafford is the big question mark. He could have a breakout year and sign a $4 per contract or he could just play well and sign for less. Sekera isn't likely to get a huge deal even if he has a really good year. Likewise for Kaleta. A vet center could be had for $4 (depending on the quality and age) -- though, don't rule out an internally-sourced second-line center -- while the remaining young guys or external role-players will range from $750 (for entry level guys) to $1.5. With a $52 million budget, it will be tight, but possible.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I'll admit I have not read every post closely, just skimmed after the original ... but Labatt ... are you complaining they are NOT spending wisely on their core and are not going to have enough money left to build a winner? Not beng a smartass, seriously asking ... and if so, which of those deals you listed are the bad ones?

Or are you saying they are finally doing it right, paying the good players what they deserve instead of letting them slip away and filling the team out with young players on entry level contracts and really inexpensive vets?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I'll admit I have not read every post closely, just skimmed after the original ... but Labatt ... are you complaining they are NOT spending wisely on their core and are not going to have enough money left to build a winner? Not beng a smartass, seriously asking ... and if so, which of those deals you listed are the bad ones?

Or are you saying they are finally doing it right, paying the good players what they deserve instead of letting them slip away and filling the team out with young players on entry level contracts and really inexpensive vets?

 

Also note, this is for 09-10, not this coming season 08-09... confusing!

 

I think the point is that Vanek is a big salary, but he's getting smaller every year as the cap rises.

[wjag]

Cap hit for next year(09-10) as it stands today...

 

Vanek 7.15

Miller 6.25

Pominville 5.0(I think a pretty good guess on my part)

Roy 4.0

Hecht 3.5

Rivet 3.5

 

The 6 player total is 29.4 mil, which based on this years self imposed cap budget of 50 mil with a 2 mil increase(once again just a guess) for next year, would leave the Sabres with 22.6 mil for 16 other players or an average of 1.4 mil per player. When you factor in guys like Tallinder, Lydman and Gaustad(all under contract for 09-10) who are all above the 1.4 mil level, the average for the rest of the players continues to go down even more. Look for a lot of young players on entry level contracts or really inexpensive vets to fill out the roster(3rd and 4th line, 5-6 dmen and #2 goalie) for the next few years.

So Rivet is now core? :D: He's hasn't played a single minute for the good guys :)

[shrader]

Also note, this is for 09-10, not this coming season 08-09... confusing!

 

I think the point is that Vanek is a big salary, but he's getting smaller every year as the cap rises.

 

Regardless of the cap, the salary itself actually decreases. He'll be down to $6.4 million a year for the rest of the contract. He made 10 last year and will make 8 this season.

[carpandean]

Regardless of the cap, the salary itself actually decreases. He'll be down to $6.4 million a year for the rest of the contract. He made 10 last year and will make 8 this season.

That only matters if the team's self-imposed budget is for salary and not for the cap. His cap hit is not changing. If it is for salary, then we have to look at those numbers instead of the cap numbers listed above.

[R_Dudley]

Wow great reading and very informative but after just getting back and settled in from my third coach pitched baseball game this week(in which I am the coach) I have come to the conclusion that alot of you have too much time on your hands.. :D

 

But thanks for diligent research and attention to detail on all topics. :beer:

[Guest Sloth]

Wow great reading and very informative but after just getting back and settled in from my third coach pitched baseball game this week(in which I am the coach) I have come to the conclusion that alot of you have too much time on your hands.. :D

 

But thanks for diligent research and attention to detail on all topics. :beer:

 

I'll be hitting your ranks in about 6 years. My daughter will be turning one in a couple of months and I can't wait to coach her in soccer and softball. The 2028 Olympics is already on my mind!

[LabattBlue]

I'll admit I have not read every post closely, just skimmed after the original ... but Labatt ... are you complaining they are NOT spending wisely on their core and are not going to have enough money left to build a winner? Not beng a smartass, seriously asking ... and if so, which of those deals you listed are the bad ones?

Or are you saying they are finally doing it right, paying the good players what they deserve instead of letting them slip away and filling the team out with young players on entry level contracts and really inexpensive vets?

Not complaining at all that they are locking up players they "perceive" to be core. I'm more or less getting at the point that they better hit home runs on these guys they are locking up long term, because the role players that will fill out the roster won't be the ones getting you to a deep cup run and with a limited budget, any "misses" will really handcuff the franchise.

[shrader]

That only matters if the team's self-imposed budget is for salary and not for the cap. His cap hit is not changing. If it is for salary, then we have to look at those numbers instead of the cap numbers listed above.

 

Of course their self-imposed budget is for salary. Nothing else makes even the slightest bit of sense.

[carpandean]

Of course their self-imposed budget is for salary. Nothing else makes even the slightest bit of sense.

Agreed, that would make much more sense. However, looking at the numbers, I wonder. they talked about wanting to be at ~$50 million this year, but are currently over $51 million in salary, plus bonuses. It also sounds like they will be adding Teppo in place of Weber (salary plus bonus is around $750k), which would put them at or even above $52 million. On the other hand, their cap hit with Teppo would be just under $50 million.

 

Interesting facts:

Current 2008-09 cap hit (13 forwards, 7 defensemen, 2 goalies): $48.66 million

Current 2008-09 salary (13 forwards, 7 defensemen, 2 goalies): $51.13 million

Locked in 2009-10 cap hit (6 forwards, 5 defensemen, 2 goalies): $36.452 million

Locked in 2009-10 salary (6 forwards, 5 defensemen, 2 goalies): $37.16 million

[BetweenThePipes00]

Agreed, that would make much more sense. However, looking at the numbers, I wonder. they talked about wanting to be at ~$50 million this year, but are currently over $51 million in salary, plus bonuses. It also sounds like they will be adding Teppo in place of Weber (salary plus bonus is around $750k), which would put them at or even above $52 million. On the other hand, their cap hit with Teppo would be just under $50 million.

 

Interesting facts:

Current 2008-09 cap hit (13 forwards, 7 defensemen, 2 goalies): $48.66 million

Current 2008-09 salary (13 forwards, 7 defensemen, 2 goalies): $51.13 million

Locked in 2009-10 cap hit (6 forwards, 5 defensemen, 2 goalies): $36.452 million

Locked in 2009-10 salary (6 forwards, 5 defensemen, 2 goalies): $37.16 million

 

yeah but they also want to get out from under max's deal if possible ... if you subtract that $3.5 million they would be back down around their planned budget.