Craig Rivet is a Sabre

[BetweenThePipes00]

Do you really equate Max and Connolly to Tallinder and Lydman? The thing that hurt the Sabres most last season is the insane thing that will hurt them this season. Relying on Max and Connolly is going to kill this team again. How many times does the FO have to make the same mistake over and over before they learn.

 

No, of course I don't, but I was commenting on the Rivet deal specifically, not the FO overall philosophy. Given the reality of the situation, that being that Max and Connolly have NO trade value and it really doesn't make much sense to buy them out with just one year left on their deals, getting Rivet was a good move, even if it cost Bernier. The hole on the back end was bigger.

You seem to be looking for much more big picture changes, because in general they have built a soft team and you want them to change that ASAP ... so I was saying if it was just as easy as buying out the soft guys and buying tougher ones in free agency, they may as well get rid of Tallinder and Lydman too. Bad attempt at sarcasm, I guess.

[RuffRuff]

"X" you know how much I respect you, but I don't get how Pittsburgh and NYR are more then marginally downgraded if at all.

 

Pittsburgh kept their defense, Fleury should be even better, Satan should at least mimic Hossa's regular season production and no one is even close down the middle upfront.

The Rangers added Naslund, Zherdev and Fritsche upfront plus a year older Dubinsky and while Redden may be over paid, he should be an upgrade.

 

 

I agree and in general it seems that the east has improved more than the west, which sucks. But more importantly, who are those chicks, and where can I find life-sized cut-outs?

[tom webster]

Naslund and Zherdev are nothing but 2nd liners. However, they lost Avery, Shanahan AND Jagr. Kinda hard to replace those guys. And they did add Redden, but they lost Malik and Mara. I know Redden is way better then either of those two, but still, that's alot of ice time lost.

 

As for Pittsburgh, i think you may be right. They lost alot, but they kept their core and as long as they have their defense, MA Fluery, Sid the kid and Malkin, they will be competitive, not to mention Fedetenko, Satan, Cooke are all solid role players to have. I do believe Pittsburgh improved.

 

Zherdev and Naslund accounted for 1 less point then Jagr and Shanahan, and yes I know its about more then points but Jagr and Shanahan leaving will allow it to become Gomez and Drury's team and I think they will be the better for it.

[stenbaro]

Zherdev and Naslund accounted for 1 less point then Jagr and Shanahan, and yes I know its about more then points but Jagr and Shanahan leaving will allow it to become Gomez and Drury's team and I think they will be the better for it.

They will be a better team with Drury and Gomez as the face and leaders of the team...I love the Rivet trade, they are still another defensman and a good two way center away from being a solid playoff team..

[X. Benedict]

"X" you know how much I respect you, but I don't get how Pittsburgh and NYR are more then marginally downgraded if at all.

 

Pittsburgh kept their defense, Fleury should be even better, Satan should at least mimic Hossa's regular season production and no one is even close down the middle upfront.

The Rangers added Naslund, Zherdev and Fritsche upfront plus a year older Dubinsky and while Redden may be over paid, he should be an upgrade.

 

Not impressed with the Rangers moves esp. on the blueline.

 

Rosival - Redden

Kalinin - Staal

Girardi - Mara

 

As for the forwards, losing Jagr and Shanahan will hurt the PP.

But I would say they are staking a lot on the play of Dubinski and Staal this year.

 

I'm not convinced Naslund gells with their system.

 

Still a good team - but I'm not sure they improved themselves.

 

As for Pitt. I don't think they improved either.

Laraque - Hossa - Malone - Roberts - Conklin gone

 

I like Matt Cooke - but I don't think him and Satan make them a better team than 1 month ago.

(having said that, Shero has done a decent job.)

[tom webster]

Not impressed with the Rangers moves esp. on the blueline.

 

Rosival - Redden

Kalinin - Staal

Girardi - Mara

 

As for the forwards, losing Jagr and Shanahan will hurt the PP.

But I would say they are staking a lot on the play of Dubinski and Staal this year.

 

I'm not convinced Naslund gells with their system.

 

Still a good team - but I'm not sure they improved themselves.

 

As for Pitt. I don't think they improved either.

Laraque - Hossa - Malone - Roberts - Conklin gone

 

I like Matt Cooke - but I don't think him and Satan make them a better team than 1 month ago.

(having said that, Shero has done a decent job.)

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure we are that far apart in our assessments.

[Conn Smythe]

This is an excellent move on Darcy's part.

[Derrico]

Sorry, I have not read through the entire 8 page post as Ive taken the summer to travel through Europe since i finished university in April. From my standpoint, how on earth is anyone possibly complaining of this deal. I dont know all the details but it basically sounds like Bernier for Rivet. Although I did like Berniers style, it is not even comparable to Rivet. What did we all need comming into free agency? A solid, strong defenseman that brought leadership. Is that not exactly what Rivet brings? Hes tough, can help our pp a little and brings leadership. I read atleast one post saying that the 3.5 mil per made them sick to their stomach, but lets face it, Rivets still got atleast 3 years left as a top pairing dman and the price tag on those guys is WELL above 3.5 per. Anyways, greetings from Berlin and I hope that everyone is enjoying the summer, cant wait for the season to start!!

[jad1]

Bernier's agent was quoted as saying that Reiger told him he had to move salary. Its not my opinion. I believe, as apparently you do, that Bernier was going to be the odd man out, but clearly he would have gotten the chance to compete except for the fact that Darcy is apparently under strict guidelines as far as budget.

 

Bernier's agent is still trying to negotiate a contract. He's not going to say that Regier told him that Bernier was traded because he can't skate with the Sabres and he that he couldn't beat out two other players that the team is looking to unload.

 

I really wouldn't use an agent's quote as insight to the Sabres budget.

 

Especially when the players they kept (Max and Kotalik), and the guy that they traded for, Rivet, all make more than what Bernier will make this season.

[apuszczalowski]

Bernier's agent is still trying to negotiate a contract. He's not going to say that Regier told him that Bernier was traded because he can't skate with the Sabres and he that he couldn't beat out two other players that the team is looking to unload.

 

I really wouldn't use an agent's quote as insight to the Sabres budget.

 

Especially when the players they kept (Max and Kotalik), and the guy that they traded for, Rivet, all make more than what Bernier will make this season.

But the amount that they had free to spend + Bernier may have opened up the space in their budget to bring in Rivet. I don't think they traded Berniers salary away to do a direct swap of salaries. And since more then likely they knew what it would take to keep Bernier, maybe they used that number in the equation too

 

And I'm sure that its a possibility that Darcy would have rather moved Max, or timmy, or Kotalik instead to free up more cap space an keep Bernier around, but you have to give a little to get something good sometimes. Chances are theres no trade value right now for Max and Timmy, and Kotalik. You need to have a willing partner to want what you are offering to make a trade in real life. its not as easy as just calling up another team and saying we have so and so for trade, give us something for them to get them off our books. Bernier had trade value and the Sabres need budget space, so he was probably the easiest to move piece

[jad1]

But the amount that they had free to spend + Bernier may have opened up the space in their budget to bring in Rivet. I don't think they traded Berniers salary away to do a direct swap of salaries. And since more then likely they knew what it would take to keep Bernier, maybe they used that number in the equation too

 

And I'm sure that its a possibility that Darcy would have rather moved Max, or timmy, or Kotalik instead to free up more cap space an keep Bernier around, but you have to give a little to get something good sometimes. Chances are theres no trade value right now for Max and Timmy, and Kotalik. You need to have a willing partner to want what you are offering to make a trade in real life. its not as easy as just calling up another team and saying we have so and so for trade, give us something for them to get them off our books. Bernier had trade value and the Sabres need budget space, so he was probably the easiest to move piece

 

Do you really believe that Bernier has more trade value than Kotalik and Afinogenov? Granted, we're not talking about the cream of the crop here, but both these guys have some stake in the league.

 

Max is a season removed from being a point-a-game player and is one of the fastest skaters in the league.

 

Kotalik is a 20 goal scorer who is a power-play weapon and a threat in shootouts.

 

Bernier has poor skating skills, has posted low point totals, and couldn't hold down the power forward position on two 'soft' teams. Many have Bernier pegged as the second coming of Dustin Penner, but his production has shown that he's not that guy.

 

I'm not saying that Afinogenov or Kotalik aren't going to be shipped out of Buffalo. But in the case of this deal, Regier was able to get more for less, and ended up adding to the payroll. So I don't see it as a salary dump.

[LabattBlue]

Max is a season removed from being a point-a-game player and is one of the fastest skaters in the league.

Which is exactly the reason why I don't believe any of this "there is no interest in Max" BS.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Which is exactly the reason why I don't believe any of this "there is no interest in Max" BS.

 

 

Wait ... so does that mean you think he is going to be productive this season, even on the Sabres? That he is actually an asset? because if not, if you think he was horrible last season and needs to go, why is it such a reach to think that guys who do this for a living might think the same thing and not want him on their team?

I mean, I can see a lot of GMs going "Yeah, he's talented and might bounce back wioth a change of scenery ... but at $3.5 million and one year left? I'll pass. But I'll keep an eye on him for when he is a FA next summer." I can totally see that ... no one doubts his talent, but unless you are talking about the top guys, most are looking for inexpensive production, adn he is not an inexpensive risk at this point.

[X. Benedict]

Which is exactly the reason why I don't believe any of this "there is no interest in Max" BS.

 

 

There might be interest in him @ cost -i.e. a team willing to pay his salary.

 

But I don't think there was interest beyond that.

[jad1]

Wait ... so does that mean you think he is going to be productive this season, even on the Sabres? That he is actually an asset? because if not, if you think he was horrible last season and needs to go, why is it such a reach to think that guys who do this for a living might think the same thing and not want him on their team?

I mean, I can see a lot of GMs going "Yeah, he's talented and might bounce back wioth a change of scenery ... but at $3.5 million and one year left? I'll pass. But I'll keep an eye on him for when he is a FA next summer." I can totally see that ... no one doubts his talent, but unless you are talking about the top guys, most are looking for inexpensive production, adn he is not an inexpensive risk at this point.

 

He'll be attractive to teams that lack speed on their roster and have difficulty scoring. His salary will decrease as the season progresses, so if he stays healthy he'll remain an asset until the trading deadline.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

There might be interest in him @ cost -i.e. a team willing to pay his salary.

 

But I don't think there was interest beyond that.

 

I agree. These players are like the millions of houses going underwater. If you paid too much for a player in the past and he isn't playing anywhere near his current salary, you are lucky to just give him away so you don't have to keep paying him.

 

I think there is more of a market for Kotalik. He has the point shot, shootouts, and he brings up his game in the playoffs...almost too much. You could probably package Kotalik and a prospect for another top 4 D-man.

[BetweenThePipes00]

He'll be attractive to teams that lack speed on their roster and have difficulty scoring. His salary will decrease as the season progresses, so if he stays healthy he'll remain an asset until the trading deadline.

 

Yeah but that is a different issue ... now you are talking about him actually playing well and THEN having value as the season goes on. My issue was with Labatt saying that he doesn't believe there is no interest in him NOW.

I am saying I can see most GMs shying away at this point due to his pricetag ... throw in the fact he was not a point-per-game player before the lockout and that the game is going back that way ... I doubt DR's phone is ringing off the hook.

[apuszczalowski]

Do you really believe that Bernier has more trade value than Kotalik and Afinogenov? Granted, we're not talking about the cream of the crop here, but both these guys have some stake in the league.

 

Max is a season removed from being a point-a-game player and is one of the fastest skaters in the league.

 

Kotalik is a 20 goal scorer who is a power-play weapon and a threat in shootouts.

 

Bernier has poor skating skills, has posted low point totals, and couldn't hold down the power forward position on two 'soft' teams. Many have Bernier pegged as the second coming of Dustin Penner, but his production has shown that he's not that guy.

 

I'm not saying that Afinogenov or Kotalik aren't going to be shipped out of Buffalo. But in the case of this deal, Regier was able to get more for less, and ended up adding to the payroll. So I don't see it as a salary dump.

Bernier is still young with potential, and thats what gives him trade value. Potential is no guarantee, but it gives him value because he still has time to show this potential

 

Max is at the point where he is pretty much "What you see is what you get" He has only had one big year. Right now he is living off his speed, and the only value he has would be with a team and a coach that think that he just needs a change of scenery. Kotalik also is a player that may have some value, but he is also pretty much at a "what you see is what you get" point of his career. I would say that Kotalik may have more value then Max, but besides this thread, I haven't really heard many people willing to ditch him, and nothing from the coaching staff/FO wanting to move him.

[nfreeman]

There might be interest in him @ cost -i.e. a team willing to pay his salary.

 

But I don't think there was interest beyond that.

 

 

He'll be attractive to teams that lack speed on their roster and have difficulty scoring. His salary will decrease as the season progresses, so if he stays healthy he'll remain an asset until the trading deadline.

 

I agree with both of these. I think Darcy feels Max is worth considerably more than just a junk draft pick -- which is what we would've gotten in a straight salary dump -- and that's why he hasn't been traded. I think it's quite likely that Max will have a pretty decent season and we'll trade him at the deadline for a decent return. There is close to an equal likelihood of the same being true of Kotalik, and it's also possible (but less likely) that Connolly or Spacek could be traded at the deadline, since both are UFAs after this year. (Although if we are going to make the playoffs, neither Connolly nor Spacek will be traded if healthy).

[jad1]

Bernier is still young with potential, and thats what gives him trade value. Potential is no guarantee, but it gives him value because he still has time to show this potential

 

Max is at the point where he is pretty much "What you see is what you get" He has only had one big year. Right now he is living off his speed, and the only value he has would be with a team and a coach that think that he just needs a change of scenery. Kotalik also is a player that may have some value, but he is also pretty much at a "what you see is what you get" point of his career. I would say that Kotalik may have more value then Max, but besides this thread, I haven't really heard many people willing to ditch him, and nothing from the coaching staff/FO wanting to move him.

 

Max has had two big years: he posted 134 points in 133 games in '05-'06 and '06-'07; the two seasons before the last.

 

So, did he have a bad season last year (possibly due to injuries)? Does he need a change of scenery? Or, is he truly in decline?

 

Guess right and he bounces back, you could have blazing speed in a point-a-game player. GMs have taken bigger risks (Bertuzzi, Lindros, Daigle, Federov) with mixed results.

[apuszczalowski]

Max has had two big years: he posted 134 points in 133 games in '05-'06 and '06-'07; the two seasons before the last.

 

So, did he have a bad season last year (possibly due to injuries)? Does he need a change of scenery? Or, is he truly in decline?

 

Guess right and he bounces back, you could have blazing speed in a point-a-game player. GMs have taken bigger risks (Bertuzzi, Lindros, Daigle, Federov) with mixed results.

If Max only had a bad year last year and is a point per game player about to rebound, how come we want to get rid of him? Why are we all ready to show him the door here in Buffalo?

[SabresFan526]

Ok, this thread has been HI-JACKED by the Max bashing!!! Let me get this back on track. I just saw some youtube clips of Craig Rivet, and I'm now stoked he's a Sabre. That guy is tough and nasty. In terms of nastiness and toughness, I'd say Pratt probably was the toughest defenseman on the team last year and Rivet is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge upgrade over Pratt in terms of defensive zone nastiness and clearing out the goal crease and protecting the goalie. I think offensively, he will fit in well with the Sabres as he had 35 points last year and can add a nice shot from the PP. I imagine that because he plays right defense and is a right handed shot he will play with Spacek to start the year and they will be either the top pair or second pair. If not, then Rivet may play with the 6th defenseman and Spacek plays with Sekera next year. Honestly, I'd like to see Rivet playing with Spacek, myself. Those will be some really hard slap shots coming from the point if those two are on the ice together, and then add Kotalik into the mix and we've got some really heavy shots and one-timers coming on the power play. I'm excited about Rivet.

 

In my mind, the Sabres still need to add one more defenseman and a second line center (I'm thinking either Demitra or Morrison). If those two happen, I will call this offseason a success. Just my take.

[shrader]

Really, with the Rivet deal, we have finally replaced what we lost when Jay McKee went to St Louis. They made the right move in not bringing him back, but they never really filled the gap he left.

[Bmwolf21]

Really, with the Rivet deal, we have finally replaced what we lost when Jay McKee went to St Louis. They made the right move in not bringing him back, but they never really filled the gap he left.

Excellent observation.

[nfreeman]

Really, with the Rivet deal, we have finally replaced what we lost when Jay McKee went to St Louis. They made the right move in not bringing him back, but they never really filled the gap he left.

 

Excellent observation.

 

What he said.

 

(Actually, Rivet has a much better skating and offensive game than McKee, and probably not quite as much blood and guts -- I can't think of anyone on the Sabres in quite some time that had as much as McKee -- but Rivet has more blood and guts than anyone else on the Sabres right now. But your point is still rock-solid).