Bye Bye Bernie

[tom webster]

Is it purely coincidence that Bernier had his best game here when he was playing off of instinct and was hitting people and just throwing the puck to where he thought someone would be? Or was it the only time Ruff didn't expect him to know Ruff's system so he let him just do his thing?

 

Vancouver isn't stupid. To me, Bernier was a slightly more instinctive and nastier player than Pyatt. Everyone credits the Sedin brothers for helping Pyatt's numbers, but tell me, would Mair or Peters get 23 goals on a line with the Sedin twins? While Bernier wasn't a stud with San Jose, he showed true flashes. He might be the next Grosek, but he can also be the next LeClair.

 

I like Rivet as a player, and we need 2 more of him on defense and 3 of him on offense. Bernier was one of those three.

 

I would laugh so hard if Vancouver comes back and signs Paille to an offer sheet.

 

 

Probably only way you can win some money from me. :rolleyes:

[deluca67]

There are several veteran forwards out there that could fill Paille's role. He is going to have to do it one mor year before Buffalo pays him any more then $1.5 million.

Then the Sabres will have to sign a few of them this season. If they can't reach a deal with Paille, another for when Connolly gets hurt and someone to replace Max when he gets benched for good. I agree I would like to see more of Paille before I pay him. Just like I wouldn't have overpaid for Gaustad at this point. Despite conversations to the contrary the Sabres do not have an abundance of NHL ready forwards this season which gives Paille some leverage.

[BetweenThePipes00]

He came from a slow system in San Jose to a real quick one here, he couldn't adjust. His legs wern't in it and he couldn't think fast enough. But he still hit like a train and still played 120% each and every night.

He had almost 1/4 of a season to adjust. If he doesn't fit, he doesn't fit. And I beg to differ o the 120%, he was invisible most nights. I would have liked to see what he could do after an offseason in the Sabrs program too, but the team is better today than it was yesterday. Everyone wants changes but they expect the changes to come for free I guess. To get you have to give and Bernier's potential was more marketable than Max's contract.

 

My problem is, the 2 guys who are obvious choices to make the roster from prospects are MacArthur or Gerbe. Neither of them is a hitter. Neither of them will fight for the puck. This is messed up.

Have you ever even seen Gerbe play? I haven't. All I hear is that his motor never stops and he is fearless. I have my questions if that will continue, but you can't make a statement like that when he has yet to show us that.

Besides, as of right now those guys are extras .... they can go Roy-Vanek-Afinogenov, Connolly-Pominville-Hecht, Gaustad-Stafford-Kotalik, Mair-Kaleta-Paille ... I would like another center and to get rid of Max, but taking Bernier out does not break my heart.

[wjag]

Then the Sabres will have to sign a few of them this season. If they can't reach a deal with Paille, another for when Connolly gets hurt and someone to replace Max when he gets benched for good. I agree I would like to see more of Paille before I pay him. Just like I wouldn't have overpaid for Gaustad at this point. Despite conversations to the contrary the Sabres do not have an abundance of NHL ready forwards this season which gives Paille some leverage.

Certainly depth is an issue at forward.

I'm in the:

keep Max camp (I like his chaos, until he turns the puck over..)

keep Kotalik (shoot out and occassional one-timer + 20 goals)

keep Stafford and hope he elevates his game

medically retire Connolly (just don't see his body holding up based on the last 3 years)

trade Bernier (but get a replacement forward, not a draft choice... overcome by reality of course)

elevate Kaleta to full time 4th liner

really agnostic regarding Paetsch and Paille: send to the highest bidder or let them go.. Get some fresh/new faces in as replacements

Peters make a full time 4th liner or let him go. The guy can skate. He showed that last year. Why not give him 10+ minutes and see what he could do?

 

Not getting a forward for Bernier sure makes us look thin at forward

[Two or less]

He had almost 1/4 of a season to adjust. If he doesn't fit, he doesn't fit. And I beg to differ o the 120%, he was invisible most nights. I would have liked to see what he could do after an offseason in the Sabrs program too, but the team is better today than it was yesterday. Everyone wants changes but they expect the changes to come for free I guess. To get you have to give and Bernier's potential was more marketable than Max's contract.

Have you ever even seen Gerbe play? I haven't. All I hear is that his motor never stops and he is fearless. I have my questions if that will continue, but you can't make a statement like that when he has yet to show us that.

Besides, as of right now those guys are extras .... they can go Roy-Vanek-Afinogenov, Connolly-Pominville-Hecht, Gaustad-Stafford-Kotalik, Mair-Kaleta-Paille ... I would like another center and to get rid of Max, but taking Bernier out does not break my heart.

 

Of course i have, in college and WJC. But even without watching him ever play i know he won't be doing much hitting. The dude is 5'5. At best he's a Danny Briere, which is excellent because we're going to get alot of wins and he's going to make himself alot of money, but my statement talked about hitting, and Gerbe won't be doing much of that.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Of course i have, in college and WJC. But even without watching him ever play i know he won't be doing much hitting. The dude is 5'5. At best he's a Danny Briere, which is excellent because we're going to get alot of wins and he's going to make himself alot of money, but my statement talked about hitting, and Gerbe won't be doing much of that.

 

Fair enough, but I don't remember Bernier hammering away every night after his arrival either. If he was giving 120% like you suggested and hitting everything in sight, he would have stood out BIG TIME ... most of the time he was just another guy out there. I do know that Rivet IS going to hit and battle more than anyone on the current defense, so that is a plus. It's not a "let's plan the parade" plus, but it's definitely a plus.

[SabresOnTheWarpath]

Certainly depth is an issue at forward.

I'm in the:

keep Max camp (I like his chaos, until he turns the puck over..)

keep Kotalik (shoot out and occassional one-timer + 20 goals)

keep Stafford and hope he elevates his game

medically retire Connolly (just don't see his body holding up based on the last 3 years)

trade Bernier (but get a replacement forward, not a draft choice... overcome by reality of course)

elevate Kaleta to full time 4th liner

really agnostic regarding Paetsch and Paille: send to the highest bidder or let them go.. Get some fresh/new faces in as replacements

Peters make a full time 4th liner or let him go. The guy can skate. He showed that last year. Why not give him 10+ minutes and see what he could do?

Not getting a forward for Bernier sure makes us look thin at forward

 

 

Give Peters 10 plus? are you serious??? :wallbash:

 

And what is all the love for Stafford? I think Paille is a better player now, and will be down the line.

[nfreeman]

I disagree with DeLuca and the other posters arguing that we don't have enough forwards and need to sign a couple. the sabres are going into the season with connolly and max in their top 9. that's just the truth, unless we package one of them in a trade. assuming no trade, that gives us:

 

roy-vanek-stafford

hecht-pominville-paille

connolly-max-kotalik

gaustad-mair-kaleta

 

macarthur

peters

gerbe/kennedy/mancar/other AHLers

 

Now, you may think connolly and max aren't NHL forwards, but I completely disagree and I'm pretty sure Darcy and Lindy do as well. It's worth remembering that max, connolly and kotalik are all in their contract years and as such will all probably have pretty good years.

 

Bottom line: we aren't bringing in another forward unless we trade one. I wouldn't mind seeing this happen, because I want a tough veteran import, preferably at center, but we aren't going to waive max or connolly or just dump them for picks.

[tom webster]

I disagree with DeLuca and the other posters arguing that we don't have enough forwards and need to sign a couple. the sabres are going into the season with connolly and max in their top 9. that's just the truth, unless we package one of them in a trade. assuming no trade, that gives us:

 

roy-vanek-stafford

hecht-pominville-paille

connolly-max-kotalik

gaustad-mair-kaleta

 

macarthur

peters

gerbe/kennedy/mancar/other AHLers

 

Now, you may think connolly and max aren't NHL forwards, but I completely disagree and I'm pretty sure Darcy and Lindy do as well. It's worth remembering that max, connolly and kotalik are all in their contract years and as such will all probably have pretty good years.

 

Bottom line: we aren't bringing in another forward unless we trade one. I wouldn't mind seeing this happen, because I want a tough veteran import, preferably at center, but we aren't going to waive max or connolly or just dump them for picks.

 

 

I have very little argument with this post except for one major point,

Hecht cannot be counted on as a number two center unless he improves on his face offs( 42%)

The whole depth is mostly a thing of the past in the cap era. Any team that intends to compete for the Cup can ill afford to lose any of their core players for an extended period of time. Third and fourth liners are mostly interchangeable and most people don't have the quality depth to replace more then one of their top six.

Between Connolly, Max, Kotalik and Stafford, you would think that two of the would have great contract years and together with Hecht, Roy, Vanek and Pominville will form two pretty good units. Give me a tough veteran to play with Gaustad and Paille and I think I have three lines that can compete with most any body's three lines and whichever two of the four don't have rebound years can ride the pine.

Now I'm going to get drunk, try not to drown and not think of any of this tomorrow.

[carpandean]

assuming no trade, that gives us:

roy-vanek-stafford

hecht-pominville-paille

connolly-max-kotalik

gaustad-mair-kaleta

Probably more like:

vanek-roy-stafford

hecht-connolly-pominville

paille-gaustad-kotalik

max-mair-kaleta

 

(Note: I like the LW-C-RW format better.)

Hecht should not be top-line center. If Timmy is healthy, then he will be our second-line center and Gaustad should be our third-line center. Who knows, they may even try the R-A-V line again (swapping Max for Drew.)

[Bmwolf21]

(Note: I like the LW-C-RW format better.)

Me too. Much easier to follow.

[deluca67]

Probably more like:

vanek-roy-stafford

hecht-connolly-pominville

paille-gaustad-kotalik

max-mair-kaleta

 

(Note: I like the LW-C-RW format better.)

Hecht should not be top-line center. If Timmy is healthy, then he will be our second-line center and Gaustad should be our third-line center. Who knows, they may even try the R-A-V line again (swapping Max for Drew.)

The more I look at possible lineups the more apprehension I have going into this season. I agree with TW on two fronts. 1) the Sabres need a vet forward. 2) getting drunk and not drowning is important to a happy holiday weekend.

 

If you look at the lineup as it is in carp's example. Not only does Max and Timmy somehow have to have huge comebacks the other 10 forwards have to somehow stay extremely healthy. Considering everything that might happen a player like Macarthur may see 60-70 games based on injuries alone. If the Sabres have multiple injuries than you maybe looking at Zagrapan or Dylan Hunter seeing significant time. The Sabres may have to bring Mike Ryan back just so they have a functional body with NHL/AHL experience. Unless one of the newly signed can jump in.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Probably only way you can win some money from me. :rolleyes:

 

I've never said Paille and Bernier and Gaustad are great players. Unlike Darcy, I fail to be surprised by the increase in salaries every year.

 

You say Regier never makes big mistakes. Well, you don't make big mistakes when you don't take big chances. That is Darcy in a nutshell and why the Sabres will never see a championship. That has been my arguement for 3 years now. He does just enough to justify earning a salary. He's like a financial advisor who puts all of his clients' money in CD's at 3% then takes a 2% management fee. He can always tell you that you have a competitive rate of return, yet the amount of work he actually does can be done on a computer in 30 seconds.

[X. Benedict]

I would laugh so hard if Vancouver comes back and signs Paille to an offer sheet.

 

How hard would you laugh if Bernier signed an offer sheet?

 

Vancouver could get screwed.

[deluca67]

I've never said Paille and Bernier and Gaustad are great players. Unlike Darcy, I fail to be surprised by the increase in salaries every year.

 

You say Regier never makes big mistakes. Well, you don't make big mistakes when you don't take big chances. That is Darcy in a nutshell and why the Sabres will never see a championship. That has been my arguement for 3 years now. He does just enough to justify earning a salary. He's like a financial advisor who puts all of his clients' money in CD's at 3% then takes a 2% management fee. He can always tell you that you have a competitive rate of return, yet the amount of work he actually does can be done on a computer in 30 seconds.

I don't know if Regier is lazy as you seem to be implying. I am more disappointed in his inability to gauge the "market place" and his unwillingness to preempt any effects the "market place" may have on his team by being proactive and not waiting for the last minute to get things done. He makes it hard on himself and the franchise waiting till the last minute. Regier used to talk about "leverage" all the time. Since the new CBA he hasn't used that word as much. Maybe because with the younger free-agency and the emergence of the RFA market he has lost most of his leverage. Right now Miller and Pominville hold all the cards. They know the Sabres can't afford another public relations disaster. They also know the Sabres have no other options but to get them signed. I am interested to see what Bernier signs for. I wonder if he purposely priced himself out of Buffalo to force a deal. I have no facts to back that up. I'm just wondering out loud.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

How hard would you laugh if Bernier signed an offer sheet?

 

Vancouver could get screwed.

 

I know they can.....but a 2nd round pick in 2009 is as good as a 3rd in '09 and a 2nd in '10. It would be a wash. The reason I laugh about Paille is that Vancouver didn't trade Buffalo their 2nd next year so they still had it to plant an offer sheet on someone. I don't know why Webster is celebrating that he is right about Bernier being trash, because the trade says to me he's worth $2-3 million per year. Why else make the trade if you are Vancouver....just sign him and watch Quinn call another press conference.

 

 

By the way....read this article. I was thinking of making a new post, and it really does deserve one. Regier told Bernier's agent that the Sabres have no more room in their budget and had to trade Bernier in order to pay Rivet. I know it is agent-speak, but he makes the point a few different ways. Also, look how excited Gillis is to put Bernier up with the Sedin twins. You could smell this coming a mile away...if Pyatt could score 23 with them, Bernier should score 30 with them!

 

Bernier Salary Dump

[deluca67]

I know they can.....but a 2nd round pick in 2009 is as good as a 3rd in '09 and a 2nd in '10. It would be a wash. The reason I laugh about Paille is that Vancouver didn't trade Buffalo their 2nd next year so they still had it to plant an offer sheet on someone. I don't know why Webster is celebrating that he is right about Bernier being trash, because the trade says to me he's worth $2-3 million per year. Why else make the trade if you are Vancouver....just sign him and watch Quinn call another press conference.

By the way....read this article. I was thinking of making a new post, and it really does deserve one. Regier told Bernier's agent that the Sabres have no more room in their budget and had to trade Bernier in order to pay Rivet. I know it is agent-speak, but he makes the point a few different ways. Also, look how excited Gillis is to put Bernier up with the Sedin twins. You could smell this coming a mile away...if Pyatt could score 23 with them, Bernier should score 30 with them!

 

Bernier Salary Dump

Are they even close to the $48-50 million they were talking about? It's hard to accept the "budget" as a reason unless they plan to make another trade or sign a UFA. Or maybe it is just a case of the "budget" being below that $48 million mark.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I don't know if Regier is lazy as you seem to be implying. I am more disappointed in his inability to gauge the "market place" and his unwillingness to preempt any effects the "market place" may have on his team by being proactive and not waiting for the last minute to get things done. He makes it hard on himself and the franchise waiting till the last minute. Regier used to talk about "leverage" all the time. Since the new CBA he hasn't used that word as much. Maybe because with the younger free-agency and the emergence of the RFA market he has lost most of his leverage. Right now Miller and Pominville hold all the cards. They know the Sabres can't afford another public relations disaster. They also know the Sabres have no other options but to get them signed. I am interested to see what Bernier signs for. I wonder if he purposely priced himself out of Buffalo to force a deal. I have no facts to back that up. I'm just wondering out loud.

 

He isn't lazy....he doesn't take big enough chances to risk losing big time. The irony is, that has been his obvious downfall. By not signing star players to long term, high price contracts, they have all walked a year later for 50-100% more salary than they were willing to stay with Buffalo for less than 12 months previous. That is a fact.

 

I like to compare Darcy to the type of guy that goes to Las Vegas and ends up going to the Cher lookalike show and playing the 5 cent slot machines while some of his counterparts are at the craps and blackjack table playing with markers. Sure, you can lose a lot at the table, but you can win a lot as well.

 

I've said it before, but the best advice I was ever given was when I was an intern still in college working at a financial place for the summer. Someone just lost tons of money on a bond issue that didn't pay off and the brokers were arguing at the one partner who bought the issue because now all of their clients are going to go nuts on them for being invested in it.

 

The partner turns to me and said, "You can't expect to soar like an eagle and yet sh!t like a canary."

 

That sums up Darcy in a nutshell. He is so scared to make a big mistake that he will never take a big enough chance to give us a REAL shot at a championship. Anyone in any year can technically luck into one, but that is what we are left with. "Hoping" the hockey gods pull our card and everything goes right with every player playing up to their imagined expectations or beyond. Problem is, real life seldom works like that. Reality says Max won't score 40, Connolly won't play 80, Miller isn't Roy, Vanek isn't Bossy, and the defense isn't going to grow a set of nads just because we rented a set of nads in Rivet.

[X. Benedict]

I know they can.....but a 2nd round pick in 2009 is as good as a 3rd in '09 and a 2nd in '10. It would be a wash. The reason I laugh about Paille is that Vancouver didn't trade Buffalo their 2nd next year so they still had it to plant an offer sheet on someone. I don't know why Webster is celebrating that he is right about Bernier being trash, because the trade says to me he's worth $2-3 million per year. Why else make the trade if you are Vancouver....just sign him and watch Quinn call another press conference.

By the way....read this article. I was thinking of making a new post, and it really does deserve one. Regier told Bernier's agent that the Sabres have no more room in their budget and had to trade Bernier in order to pay Rivet. I know it is agent-speak, but he makes the point a few different ways. Also, look how excited Gillis is to put Bernier up with the Sedin twins. You could smell this coming a mile away...if Pyatt could score 23 with them, Bernier should score 30 with them!

 

Bernier Salary Dump

 

A few things come to mind with the article and what Darcy said: It sounds like the agent hadn't accepted the QO and was looking for a multi-year (if not he would have signed the QO).

 

So if you are Darcy and thinking multi-year with Bernier....you are telling him money is an issue

because you have Pomminstein and Miller to lock up. No surprise there.

 

As far as how well Bernier plays in Vancouver, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a 20+ goal year, but there is the Anton Carter effect from playing with the Sedin twins.

 

It may be another 3 years before Bernier realizes his potential in this league and puts it all together. But three years is another lifetime under this CBA.

 

It was hard not to be enamored with his size, flashes of grit, and the potential for that snap shot.

But I think he may be very inconsistent for the next 2 years. I was pleased when the Sabres got him, and then quite disappointed with his skating (I don't think i remember the groin as being anything more than speculation).

 

Landing Rivet (a solid NHL player) on a 3 year contract for picks and Bernier (RFA) is fair deal.

[nfreeman]

Are they even close to the $48-50 million they were talking about? It's hard to accept the "budget" as a reason unless they plan to make another trade or sign a UFA. Or maybe it is just a case of the "budget" being below that $48 million mark.

 

Easy enough to check nhlnumbers.com -- unless you aren't interested in testing your FO conspiracy theories against the facts.

 

The numbers are right here. We're at $45.6 million right now, and that doesn't include Paille, Kaleta, Sekera, Weber or (assuming we bring him in) Teppo. (I think Kaleta, Sekera and Weber only count towards the cap to the extent they are on the Sabres and not in Portland). In any case, if Teppo and Paille are paid $3 million between them and Kaleta and Sekera are on the Sabres, we're very close to $50 million.

[carpandean]

Easy enough to check nhlnumbers.com -- unless you aren't interested in testing your FO conspiracy theories against the facts.

 

The numbers are right here. We're at $45.6 million right now, and that doesn't include Paille, Kaleta, Sekera, Weber or (assuming we bring him in) Teppo. (I think Kaleta, Sekera and Weber only count towards the cap to the extent they are on the Sabres and not in Portland). In any case, if Teppo and Paille are paid $3 million between them and Kaleta and Sekera are on the Sabres, we're very close to $50 million.

Without a trade, if Sekera and Kaleta are added, they are at $46.78M, leaving $3.22M to their ~$50M target to sign Paille and another defenseman (be it Teppo, Pratt, Smith, Weber or some other option.) Even if Paille goes cheaply, I don't think that leaves enough for Smith, making it more likely that we will end up with Teppo or Pratt in the lineup again. Really to make any real acquisition, they will have to trade again to open some budget space.

[wjag]

Give Peters 10 plus? are you serious??? :wallbash:

 

And what is all the love for Stafford? I think Paille is a better player now, and will be down the line.

Yes I am....

 

If he is going to hold down a roster spot, I'd really like to see how he played if given the opportunity to concentrate on playing/skating at forward. Forget the enforcer crap and go out there and show us what you got. Maybe, just maybe, we might see some ability there. If not, then eliminate the role. But at least we would know.

 

Here's my thing... The folks who make player decisions have decided that he is a necessary component of this team. So whether I like his role or hate it, doesn't matter. He is almost certainly going to be there again this year. I saw a few games last year, when he was given more than some cameo minutes where he skated hard and put some pucks on net. I suspect there is some ability there if only given a chance to play forward. I would love a line of Peters, Mair and Kaleta if given a chance to mix it up regularly. Now that's a true fourth line.. Some folks have put Max on the 4th. He doesn't belong there.

 

If Peters is given this chance and we see there is no ability, then we'd know. Right now, he is role-limited to enforcer or press box observer. I for one think that is an inefficient use of a roster spot.

 

Regarding Stafford versus Paille, you may be right. My statement about Paille is I'm agnostic. My opinion is that he doesn't belong in the top six and a Stafford with an elevated game might. I could very well have blinders on when it comes to Paille. Given the same opportunity I have just proposed for Peters, who knows, he just might emerge into a consistant goal scoring threat.

[deluca67]

Easy enough to check nhlnumbers.com -- unless you aren't interested in testing your FO conspiracy theories against the facts.

 

The numbers are right here. We're at $45.6 million right now, and that doesn't include Paille, Kaleta, Sekera, Weber or (assuming we bring him in) Teppo. (I think Kaleta, Sekera and Weber only count towards the cap to the extent they are on the Sabres and not in Portland). In any case, if Teppo and Paille are paid $3 million between them and Kaleta and Sekera are on the Sabres, we're very close to $50 million.

What "FO conspiracy theories" are you talking about. I asked a simple question. If you are referring to my comment about not accepting the budget as an excuse that in reference to wasted monies on the roster not any secret FO plan.

[Chief Enabler]

Dump Vanek and everything is solved. :thumbsup: You know DR really wanted those 4 first rounders.....he could do his draft pick origami and turn them into 12 picks!

[BamBam]

Dump Vanek and everything is solved. :thumbsup: You know DR really wanted those 4 first rounders.....he could do his draft pick origami and turn them into 12 picks!

 

Dump him for what?