Orpik Turns Down Pens Offer

[Bmwolf21]

Technically, he just said that we haven't had a defenseman who could hit on the team since the time when Rob Ray was here. It only implies that Rob Ray was one (defenseman who could hit) before that time.

Now I'm more confused. :unsure:

 

It read "we haven't had a D-man who could hit like that since Rob Ray left the team." The time aspect you posted is an assumption of what he meant, since there is nothing to explicitly indicate he was referring to the other players on the team at that time and not the individual player. I took it at face value, which seemed to incorrectly imply that Ray was a defenseman. If he meant since the team when Ray was on the team (referring to his teammates) then I understand, it's just clunky and confusing.

 

But I read that as "Rob Ray was the last d-man we had who could hit," which confused me because Ray was a right winger.

[Taro T]

Buffalo has the money and we haven't had a D-man who could hit like that since Rob Ray left the team. Buffalo needs a tough experienced D-man and Orpik is the right guy. The fact that we are his hometown probably helps a little with the contract price, as does the fact that we have the rights to his brother. If Buffalo could get he and Warrener, who is also not resigning with his current team, our D would be much better as a whole, and we would be able to let Lydman go, thus saving us a bit more money. I think Numminen is going to be back for one more season, and Spacek did pay better last year. Tallinder is young and skilled, but that is the problem with our D. They are, for the most part, young, and skilled, but small. We need another big guy like Orpik to help the situation. He would be a good pick up and the price wouldn't be so high that he wouldn't be worth it.

Tallinder - 6'3" 210# 29

Lydman - 6'1" 204# 30

Spacek - 5'11" 204# 34

Sekara - 6'0" 191# 22

Paetsch - 6'0" 198# 25

Pratt - 6'3" 207# 32

Weber - 6'2" 199# 20

 

Teppo - 6'2" 198# 39

Kalinin - 6'3" 206# 27

 

Kalinin is gone and Teppo's return is not certain and he didn't play last year, so those 2 are separate.

 

While the Sabres' D is not HUGE by any stretch of the imagination, I don't think it can be reasonably called SMALL. And if Pratt or Teppo are back, at least 4 of the 7 bodies that will be on the NHL roster will be at least 29. I wouldn't call that young either.

 

It is very fair to say that this bunch, for the most part, isn't overly aggressive nor big hitters in their own end. Size, nor age, are not the reasons for that. (BTW, Orpik is 6'2" 219# 27. Which is a little bulkier than most of the current Sabres but not tremendously.)

[darksabre]

Our D isn't physically small, they just play small.

[djwilli3]

Now I'm more confused. :unsure:

 

It read "we haven't had a D-man who could hit like that since Rob Ray left the team." The time aspect you posted is an assumption of what he meant, since there is nothing to explicitly indicate he was referring to the other players on the team at that time and not the individual player. I took it at face value, which seemed to incorrectly imply that Ray was a defenseman. If he meant since the team when Ray was on the team (referring to his teammates) then I understand, it's just clunky and confusing.

 

But I read that as "Rob Ray was the last d-man we had who could hit," which confused me because Ray was a right winger.

 

Okay, I left out a word in my post. Sorry, but I think you got the point. We need more aggressive and physical play out of everyone on the team, most specifically on the D. For godsake, I think the point was obvious.

[djwilli3]

Tallinder - 6'3" 210# 29

Lydman - 6'1" 204# 30

Spacek - 5'11" 204# 34

Sekara - 6'0" 191# 22

Paetsch - 6'0" 198# 25

Pratt - 6'3" 207# 32

Weber - 6'2" 199# 20

 

Teppo - 6'2" 198# 39

Kalinin - 6'3" 206# 27

 

Kalinin is gone and Teppo's return is not certain and he didn't play last year, so those 2 are separate.

 

While the Sabres' D is not HUGE by any stretch of the imagination, I don't think it can be reasonably called SMALL. And if Pratt or Teppo are back, at least 4 of the 7 bodies that will be on the NHL roster will be at least 29. I wouldn't call that young either.

 

It is very fair to say that this bunch, for the most part, isn't overly aggressive nor big hitters in their own end. Size, nor age, are not the reasons for that. (BTW, Orpik is 6'2" 219# 27. Which is a little bulkier than most of the current Sabres but not tremendously.)

 

The point is, none of them play as if they had that kind of size. d4rksabre said it best, the team plays physically small. The Sabres need leadership and aggressiveness on the blueline, and Orpik would give them that. Is there anyone here who can really say that our current crop of D-men, while clearly talented, wasn't deficient in the hitting department last season?

[Bmwolf21]

Okay, I left out a word in my post. Sorry, but I think you got the point. We need more aggressive and physical play out of everyone on the team, most specifically on the D. For godsake, I think the point was obvious.

For godsake most of your points were clear. I just was trying to figure out if you mistakenly referred to Ray as a defenseman.

 

No harm, no foul.

[stenbaro]

For godsake most of your points were clear. I just was trying to figure out if you mistakenly referred to Ray as a defenseman.

 

No harm, no foul.

I calm the posting down and you have to go and start a fight with someone else..LOL..I am jealous... :thumbsup:

[james duncan]

Now I'm more confused. :unsure:

 

It read "we haven't had a D-man who could hit like that since Rob Ray left the team." The time aspect you posted is an assumption of what he meant, since there is nothing to explicitly indicate he was referring to the other players on the team at that time and not the individual player. I took it at face value, which seemed to incorrectly imply that Ray was a defenseman. If he meant since the team when Ray was on the team (referring to his teammates) then I understand, it's just clunky and confusing.

 

But I read that as "Rob Ray was the last d-man we had who could hit," which confused me because Ray was a right winger.

 

I think he meant we haven't had a Rob Ray who could hit like that since defense left the team. But I'm not sure.

[carpandean]

Now I'm more confused. :unsure:

 

It read "we haven't had a D-man who could hit like that since Rob Ray left the team." The time aspect you posted is an assumption of what he meant, since there is nothing to explicitly indicate he was referring to the other players on the team at that time and not the individual player. I took it at face value, which seemed to incorrectly imply that Ray was a defenseman. If he meant since the team when Ray was on the team (referring to his teammates) then I understand, it's just clunky and confusing.

 

But I read that as "Rob Ray was the last d-man we had who could hit," which confused me because Ray was a right winger.

I was just poking fun since, as written, it did make it sound like Rob Ray was the last big D-man that could hit that the Sabres had. My not-so-serious point was that Rob Ray leaving the team was a point in time. His statement was the we haven't had a hard-hitting D-man since that point in time. It very strongly suggests/implies that the reason why that point in time is significant is that he was one and we have not seen the likes since, but technically doesn't actually say that. It's splitting very small hairs under a very powerful microscope, but shows just how ambiguous the English language is.

[Bmwolf21]

I calm the posting down and you have to go and start a fight with someone else..LOL..I am jealous... :thumbsup:

What can I say, I am a habitual line stepper. :thumbsup:

[Bmwolf21]

I was just poking fun since, as written, it did make it sound like Rob Ray was the last big D-man that could hit that the Sabres had. My not-so-serious point was that Rob Ray leaving the team was a point in time. His statement was the we haven't had a hard-hitting D-man since that point in time. It very strongly suggests/implies that the reason why that point in time is significant is that he was one and we have not seen the likes since, but technically doesn't actually say that. It's splitting very small hairs under a very powerful microscope, but shows just how ambiguous the English language is.

That was all I was asking - did the first line seem to refer to Ray being the last Sabres defenseman who could really hit. I thought I was going nuts for a second there.

 

We now rejoin our regularly-scheduled Orpik debate, already in progress.

[Taro T]

The point is, none of them play as if they had that kind of size. d4rksabre said it best, the team plays physically small. The Sabres need leadership and aggressiveness on the blueline, and Orpik would give them that. Is there anyone here who can really say that our current crop of D-men, while clearly talented, wasn't deficient in the hitting department last season?

I understand your original point. My beef with the way it was stated is that the Sabres in general are not small and their D definitely isn't. That they play soft more often than we'd like is also valid. To say NONE of them play as if they have size is also incorrect. Spacek and Weber both can play a "large" game.

 

It is a common criticism of the Sabres that they are too small. My contention is, and has been, that they are NOT small. There are some individuals that are small (Roy is short, and Ryan and Connolly are kind of beanpoles, and Miller is definitely a beanpole), but especially on D, the team is not small nor is it particularily young. (Again, the criticism is VERY common, and it is not correct; sorry for picking your post to point that out. BTW, welcome to the board.)

 

And to say NONE of them play as if they had size is also not correct. Spacek and Weber will play mean. Pratt has done so in the past as well. It'll be interesting to see who the Sabres add (and subtract) this off-season and how the system evolves. Post-lockout, the Sabres have had more of a focus of staying in position in the defensive zone rather than throwing a big hit and risking getting seriously out of position if the hit doesn't connect. The team has had far more leeway in trying to make a play offensively than defensively. Especially if the Sabres bring a true hitter in, it'll be interesting to see how Lindy's system evolves. Personally, I'm hoping they try to emulate Moe-ray-all's style as they have the speed that the Habs do and IMHO better goaltending.

[Guest Sloth]

I understand your original point. My beef with the way it was stated is that the Sabres in general are not small and their D definitely isn't. That they play soft more often than we'd like is also valid. To say NONE of them play as if they have size is also incorrect. Spacek and Weber both can play a "large" game.

 

It is a common criticism of the Sabres that they are too small. My contention is, and has been, that they are NOT small. There are some individuals that are small (Roy is short, and Ryan and Connolly are kind of beanpoles, and Miller is definitely a beanpole), but especially on D, the team is not small nor is it particularily young. (Again, the criticism is VERY common, and it is not correct; sorry for picking your post to point that out. BTW, welcome to the board.)

 

And to say NONE of them play as if they had size is also not correct. Spacek and Weber will play mean. Pratt has done so in the past as well. It'll be interesting to see who the Sabres add (and subtract) this off-season and how the system evolves. Post-lockout, the Sabres have had more of a focus of staying in position in the defensive zone rather than throwing a big hit and risking getting seriously out of position if the hit doesn't connect. The team has had far more leeway in trying to make a play offensively than defensively. Especially if the Sabres bring a true hitter in, it'll be interesting to see how Lindy's system evolves. Personally, I'm hoping they try to emulate Moe-ray-all's style as they have the speed that the Habs do and IMHO better goaltending.

 

Lindy has always adapted to what players he had. When Hasek was in town, the Sabres played a defense style game. After the lockout, the Sabres played an offense style of game. Lindy said it himself, he plays w/ what management has given him. What else can a coach of the year do? Lindy can help w/ the development of the Sabres, but he does not receive the final call, which sucks tremendously. If Lindy had complete control, Buffalo would have a Stanley Cup. Larry Quinn has phucked a lot of things up. And know, this is not an Orpik relative....

[inkman]

Tallinder - 6'3" 210# 29

Lydman - 6'1" 204# 30

Spacek - 5'11" 204# 34

Sekara - 6'0" 191# 22

Paetsch - 6'0" 198# 25

Pratt - 6'3" 207# 32

Weber - 6'2" 199# 20

 

Teppo - 6'2" 198# 39

Kalinin - 6'3" 206# 27

 

I don't know if I believe any of those nubers. Sekera and Paetsch are both sub 6' and if Teppo is 6' 2" then I'm a nice guy.

[slapshot1619]

I don't know if I believe any of those nubers. Sekera and Paetsch are both sub 6' and if Teppo is 6' 2" then I'm a nice guy.

 

according to nhl.com those heights/weights are correct